Hitler

[Guest Jason]

actually I'm 19....

[nl5xsk1 0]

actually I'm 19....

ha ha ha ha ha ha

 

either you're lying our your teachers deserve to be fired

[Ace309 0]

Well, there are always outliers.

 

This year I've read a few books in English LOF(Lord Of The Flies) and Macbeth and both show that nobody is clearly evil. They change and every human has the potential to be evil so Hitler wasn't Satan as many of you believe him to be. He was a perfectly normal person then through whatever he decided to commit evil acts that doesn't make him evil. Let's say you were denied something everyday and then you got the power over that person would you not use it. YES, you would because everybody wants revenge everybody has taken revenge no matter what. Okay you may say God has not taken revenge Jesus gave his life for us. I believe in Jesus and God even though there is no proof of they exsisted, God still threatens people in the Bible he tells Abraham to kill his son or else something will happen.

 

Ahhh, moral relativist tripe.

 

The problem with using literature to "prove" something is that literature is at the whim of the writer. Literature aims to illustrate, but it does not on its own say anything about the world. MacBeth could have just as easily been written to "prove" that pure evil exists. It's just that that wouldn't have been dramatically interesting.

 

If you're really interested in using Abraham and Isaac as an argument about ethics, I'd advise reading Kierkegaard's Fear and Trembling before you try to go any further. You're swinging ineptly at the same sort of ideas that he writes about and tries to illustrate. I think it would also help you get your head around something you're clearly having a lot of trouble understanding.

[Guest Jason]

No, I wouldn't say that. I just have some views that many people disagree with, this board is not the first one, lol. As for the long posts, I just like to type... it's just my style. read it or don't read it..it's all I have to say.

[Murmuring Beast 0]

Obviously not a Ramones fan...

[Guest Jason]

Trouble understanding? I'm majoring in history so I think I understand it very well. Hitler is not evil he's a regular person and every regular person commits evil acts, but it doesn't make them Satan. Many people do not give Hitler credit you just classify him as a nutjob because he killed the Jews, but really it took a genius to make a plan of how to militarly attack Poland and other countries and how to kill the Jews. Also you cannot blame just Hitler for the slaughtering of the Jews, yes he ordered it, but there may have been others behind it you do not know that for sure.

 

Literature can be understood different ways that is true, but I was using it to prove a point that nobody is true evil. Look at Macbeth at the beginning of the play he's a nobel man, trustworthy and all he loves his wife, then at the end when he's chosen the road of evil he's a tyrant, trader, and he really doesn't give two shits about his wife. It shows the transition people go through and Hitler went through one of those because I'm sure in one time in his life he wasn't a cruel prick you can't tell me baby Hitler was slaughtering Jews. You see people are stuck in a little box seeing what the media tells them all you know about Hitler is he killed Jews he did much more than that he did good for the German people. I'm no skin-head or Nazi-lover, but the man wasn't Satan which you are making him out to be he did good for the country, but he got obsessed with killing the Jews. Also Hitler did not order the S.S. to do some of the shit they did he just told them torture them and kill them. Some S.S. went to the extreme and inserted armor under their skin and other sick tests. They used them as rats and I'm not condonning that I'm saying Hitler was not a completely evil man he had some good in him, but you are basing your whole opinon on the fact he slaughtered Jews and he didn't evil slaughter them he ordered them to be killed. Not a big difference, but he didn't commit the act he just ordered it. Going back to the religious book Pilot didn't commit the act he just ordered it because the people begged for it. Maybe that's what happend in Germany maybe some German people begged Hitler to do that nobody knows it is just assumed Hitler did it by himself.

 

Pure evil is nearly impossible to exist in my eyes because at one time in somebodies life they had to do some good whether it was opening a door or any good act. Hitler did good so you cannot say he was pure evil.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

[Murmuring Beast 0]

Nobody begged for the extermination of millions of jews.

[Guest Jason]

I had family run from the Nazi's and my grandparents know people who were taken away in Concentration Camps, but I do not hold that aganist Hitler or Mussolini I do not think they are evil. Mussolini was a moron and many Italians will agree and disagree because he helped some Italians and turned down others, but this just gave me an idea which I will write below. Mussolini did the same as Hitler except kill the Jews many people died on Mussolini's watch and the Italians put up a horrible fight and were really a disgrace everybody makes fun of the Italians in WWII such as How many gears does an Italian tank have? 3 one for forward 2 for reverse because the Italians retreated often. Anyways my point is Hitler has some people that agree he was a genius and some people who think he was a nutjob to be true he was a little bit of both, but I disagree with you on him being pure evil because he isn't.

 

 

Who do you think is more evil Hitler or Stalin?

 

Now if you say Hitler you are clearly......Stalin slaughtered his own people his own people for Christ sake it's like killing your own blood. He killed way more people than Hitler did and Hitler compared to him is a choir-boy. That's a true fact Hitler is nothing compared to Stalin. So if Hitler is evil what does that make Stalin??

 

After http://www.jesusishitler.com/ it gave me the thought.............. I thought God created everybody in his image so what was Hitler something gone wrong?

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

Who do you think is more evil Hitler or Stalin?

You aren't exactly being provocative with that question.

 

Many people consider Stalin to be more evil of a man than Hitler. There was certainly more blood on Stalin's hands than Hitlers. Of course he ruled his country for about 15 years longer than Hitler.

 

For your knowledge, Hitler did kill his own people. Its just the jewish atrocities get more attention.

[Bruiser Chong 0]

however I hope you guys understand where I'm coming from

A couple of very stupid parents obviously.

[Ted the Poster 0]

Both Jesus and Hitler enjoy pineapple on their pizza.

Wow. If that site gave you ideas... WOW.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

This thread's like watching one of the monks with a gascan.

[Guest Jason]

Who do you think is more evil Hitler or Stalin?

You aren't exactly being provocative with that question.

 

Many people consider Stalin to be more evil of a man than Hitler. There was certainly more blood on Stalin's hands than Hitlers. Of course he ruled his country for about 15 years longer than Hitler.

 

For your knowledge, Hitler did kill his own people. Its just the jewish atrocities get more attention.

Without a shadow of a doubt Stalin was a more evil man than Hitler. There are atrocities he committed that the public at large still don't know about. It's just they were covered up so well by the Soviets for years. Stalin wasn't just evil, he was a psychopath.

 

As for the concentration camps, it's still my belief (and many others too) that while Hitler didn't stop them, it wasn't his idea. The original plan was for extradition of the Jews to Madagasgar but this wasn't viable eventually as the focus had to be given to the war effort. If you've read the literature surrounding it, you will realise that it wasn't Hitler's idea for the Holocaust. Undoubtedly his ideas set the wheels in motion, but then it could be argued that numerous moments in history did the same thing, going right back to the death of Christ. But it was Himmler who came up with the idea of liquadting the Jews. Hitler wasn't even at the meeting when it was decided upon.

 

There's no doubt Hitler did some evil things but he was not an evil man per se

[Tawren 0]

This year I've read a few books in English LOF(Lord Of The Flies) and Macbeth and both show that nobody is clearly evil.

They also show that neither William Shakespeare nor William Golding can write worth shit.

[nl5xsk1 0]

I don't know what makes me scratch my head more, Jason's ignorant, anti-Semitic reivisionist beliefs or his inability to spell common words correctly (especially the historical words, which a history major should know how to spell).

 

It's like watching either world's smartest troll or the world's dumbest. Now, I'm not a gambling man, but if I had to put my money on one, I'd take the latter.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

Hitler is not evil he's a regular person and every regular person commits evil acts, but it doesn't make them Satan.

 

Yes, every regular person can do evil things.

 

But exactly how many regular people SLAUGHTERED SIX MILLION PEOPLE?

 

The fact that everyone is capable of evil is NOT justification for this. The fact that he thought he was right is NOT justification for this. You can't just say "well, everyone else does little evil things, so this guys HUGE EVIL THING doesn't really matter", because it does.

 

You see people are stuck in a little box seeing what the media tells them all you know about Hitler is he killed Jews he did much more than that he did good for the German people.

 

Yeah, he may have done nice things for the German people. But SO WHAT? If he hadn't, he never would have been able to gain and keep his power. Being nice to ONE nation doesn't excuse trying to murder innocent people in EVERY nation.

 

So if Hitler is evil what does that make Stalin??

 

More evil. Duh.

 

Also, I read the first line of that site and gave up.

 

Jesus is an evil, anti-Semitic coward.

 

JESUS WAS JEWISH.

[Special K 0]

Obviously you're trying to start a philisophical argument, not a historical argument. You're trying to say theat there's no right or wrong, we're all just a product of our environs, blah blah blah. That argument can be debated forever, and never concluded. It's moot and anyone with a shred of sense knows it. You seem to be using Hitler just because you know it will provoke a strong reaction (i.e. flame-baiting OMGPLZBAN)

And while you bring up the point that Hitler may have been smart in some ways, (i.e. militarily) How does that even relate to morality. The only way it does is possibly you have someone SO completely stupid that they cannot grasp the concept of right or wrong. Someone like that would have to be mentally retarded. If you're smart and you use those smarts to eradicate people, it would seem to make you, if anything, MORE culpable for your actions.

[B. Brian Brunzell 0]

Many people do not give Hitler credit you just classify him as a nutjob because he killed the Jews, but really it took a genius to make a plan of how to militarly attack Poland and other countries and how to kill the Jews.

I give Hitler credit for being the greatest public speaker that ever lived. How else could one man convince a nation of millions that his ideas were correct?

 

And yeah, it took a whole lot to run through Polnd and France. Two weak countries with not much as far as military was concerned, and France was beginning their division at the time (Free France and Vischy France). It also takes a genius to fight a THREE FRONT WAR AGAINST RUSSIA now, doesn't it?

 

Also you cannot blame Hitler for the slaughtering of the Jews, yes he ordered it, but there may have been others behind it you do not know that for sure.

 

Oh, most think that Goebbels, Goering and Himmler were evil as well. Goering was the one who signed the documents FROM HITLER to open the camps and carry out the "Final Solution," though he claimed that he never read the documents and just signed them according to the Fuhrer's wishes.

 

And Hitler was no military genius. Sure,the blitzkrieg worked well, but it was all downhill from there, starting with the Battle of Britain, the Russian front, North Africa, etc. The only real genius in the Nazi regime was Erwin Rommel, who managed to win battle after battle despite being outnumbered most of the time, even nearly winning at El Alamein, even though he was outnumbered and out-armed 8:1. And Rommel wasn't even a Nazi, he was just a general.

[{''({o..o})''} 0]

I was awoken by an exploding building earlier, just about 5-6 minutes from my house.

[Justice 0]

Without a shadow of a doubt Stalin was a more evil man than Hitler. There are atrocities he committed that the public at large still don't know about. It's just they were covered up so well by the Soviets for years. Stalin wasn't just evil, he was a psychopath.

*Laughs*

 

*Looks again*

 

*Laughs HARDER*

 

They arguably exterminated the same amount of people when it comes down to it. The deciding factor, though, is that Hitler started a war in Europe that took millions of lives. Over half the 50 Million dead are Russian, committed to a theatre of war HE started.

 

Doesn't the idea of Stalin being evil directly contradict the idea of Hitler NOT being evil? They essentially did all the same things, and all for the same cause. If anything, one could perhaps interpret Stalin as being the better of the two: He brought a country from farming into an Industrial powerhouse in a matter of a decade. It was this that saved Russia and brought it around to being the world power it is today. He basically modernized his country. Hitler took a modern country and gave it will. His 'accomplishments' don't compare to what Stalin did, and it's all wiped off the map anyways because he left Germany in worse condition than it was when he got it. It was HIS fault that Germany was split the way it was for so many decades.

 

When it comes down to it, if Stalin was evil, so was Hitler. Hitler was far, far stupider with his evil, though.

 

As for the concentration camps, it's still my belief (and many others too) that while Hitler didn't stop them, it wasn't his idea. The original plan was for extradition of the Jews to Madagasgar but this wasn't viable eventually as the focus had to be given to the war effort. If you've read the literature surrounding it, you will realise that it wasn't Hitler's idea for the Holocaust. Undoubtedly his ideas set the wheels in motion, but then it could be argued that numerous moments in history did the same thing, going right back to the death of Christ. But it was Himmler who came up with the idea of liquadting the Jews. Hitler wasn't even at the meeting when it was decided upon.

 

Oh God, what a load. Hitler was a notorious strategic micromanger (See: Stalingrad, the Battle of Britain, and the Battle of the Bulge): He loved to be in control and set the agenda wherever he could, which is one of the main reasons why Germany lost the war. To think that he wouldn't know about this is utterly absurd and arguably 'willingfully blind'. One wonder what 'literature' you like to read, and frankly I'd LOVE to have proof on the whole Madagascar thing. I've never once heard of that before and honestly sounds like a complete crock.

 

Whether or not the 'ideas' were there before, he carried them out, and Himmler with his blessing. Himmler could not have diverted the resources he did without Hitler's explicit approval.

 

Fuck, he didn't need to be at the committee meeting when he was the one who had already set the fucking agenda.

 

There's no doubt Hitler did some evil things but he was not an evil man per se

 

You are a massive hypocrit. If Stalin is evil, then Hitler certainly is.

[B. Brian Brunzell 0]

Thank you, Justice.

[Ace309 0]

Trouble understanding? I'm majoring in history so I think I understand it very well.

Thanks for that. Anyone can major in anything without even a vague understanding of it, especially when he's 19 and probably a freshman or sophomore.

 

Your arguments are shoddy at best. I'm trying to point you toward someone who started from the same place you're starting but was actually able to make a coherent statement instead of just rambling in a self-contradicting manner.

 

Literature can be understood different ways that is true, but I was using it to prove a point that nobody is true evil.

 

And there's your problem. You totally misunderstood what I was saying.

 

Of course literature can be understood differently by different people. That's completely irrelevant.

 

What IS relevant is that literature has no existential import of its own and no probative value whatsoever. It reflects the author's views, and to some extent the views of the readers and commentators. It does not reflect reality. It can't 'prove' anything. Otherwise, James Morrow's Jonathan Sarkos character from the Towing Jehovah trilogy would be the death knell for your argument, because he is pure evil.

 

But, of course, it isn't, because literature has no probative value.

[Guest Jason]

And Rommel wasn't even a Nazi, he was just a general.

 

So what are you trying to say that all Nazi's are evil? That the S.S. are evil?

 

 

I think it does take a genius, Hitler to start a war aganist the world and come so close to winning it. There are several what if's in history, but the biggest one in WWII is what if Hitler didn't attack Russia and that would have made him win WWII. Russia was his biggest mistake and his downfall if it wasn't for the Russians Germany would have won WWII. Britain was falling France fell, and the Allies were done. Hitler used his brain to rise into power at the beginning of the Nazi party they had 5 seats they then expanded under Hitlers controll. It takes a smart person to manipulate the masses and to take a small party and make it rise. In my eyes Hitler was a genius he was a military genius he knew when to attack and how to attack and his generals listened to him not only because they had to, but because at times before the German downfall he was a genius. Hitler was not a genius on D-Day when he wanted the troops to stay at a certain point when D-day was already being fought.

 

And yeah, it took a whole lot to run through Polnd and France. Two weak countries with not much as far as military was concerned, and France was beginning their division at the time (Free France and Vischy France). It also takes a genius to fight a THREE FRONT WAR AGAINST RUSSIA now, doesn't it?

 

Weak? France no matter what they were in since WWI France advanced in trench tactics they had trenches all lined up, some historians call them super trenches for how advanced they were, but since France was stuck in the trench ages, Germany having more advances in weaponry and fighting they slaughtered them. France fell in 2 or 4 weeks they were ready for the Germans it wasn't a suprise attack so there are no excuses. A three front war well how do you avoid a three front war if your Hitler. He was enemies with several countries already and fronts were opening up all over he did not want to back down so he went into them. He made some stupid mistakes, but he was a military genius at several points.

[Special K 0]

And your above ramblings have exactly what to do with Hitler being evil or not? I will reiterate my above point. The only way IQ relates to morals is people who are extremely mentally deficient and cannot understand the cause and effect of their actions, or the very concept of morality. Whether or not Hitler was smart it has absolutely no bearing on whether he is good or evil, moron.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

You don't even know why France fell to Germany in the war.

[Mole 0]

I'm a bit saddened there wasn't a comparison to Vince McMahon...

What kind of idiot would do that?

[nl5xsk1 0]

I think it does take a genius, Hitler to start a war aganist the world and come so close to winning it.

You've just contradicted yourself ... a page or so two ago you said that Hitler didn't want to start WW2, but now you're saying that he did. Pick a belief and stick with it.

 

And, having said that, being Poland, France, Hungary & then bombing Britain does not equate with coming "so close to winning it". As soon as the Americans chose to stop his little winning streak, they would have. Even your non-evil genius and his happy go lucky group of National Socialists would have crumbled when a few big bombs destroyed Germany.

[Stephen Joseph 0]

If there's any evidence of evil in this world, genocide has got to be one of its signs.

[justsoyouknow 0]

The Nazis wanted to send the Jews to Casablanca. ...Nobody escapes Casablanca.