Campus club seeks right to exclude gays

[Guest CronoT]

There are no disagreements between the old and the new testaments.

You couldn't be more wrong there, SP. The Old Testament says that anything consumed from a pig is not kosher. Jesus declared that all food is kosher. (Matthew 15:11)

 

As for the topic at hand, I will quote John, Chapter 8, verse 7: They kept demanding an answer, so he stood up again and said, "All right, hurl the stones at her until she dies. But only he who never sinned may throw the first!"

 

I still prefer the King James Version's wording, though: "Let he who has no sin, cast the first stone."

[Guest Loss]

1. Because it's a sinful rebellion against the way God created humans.

 

If God existed as you said he does, he could snap his fingers and wipe away all the homosexuality in the world. But the Christian God, from reading scripture, is a selfish God who demands constant praise and only shows conditional love. If God loved all creatures, there would be no Hell, nor would there be any judgment. Christianity is idealistic enough as it is, so why not go all the way with it?

 

In case you didn't notice, the penis and vagina fit together and were designed to. The anal cavity is for the release of waste material and nothing more.

 

Anal sex is an act committed by both homosexuals and heterosexuals. Do you think heterosexuals who practice anal sex are committing an abomination in God's eyes? Is all sex for pleasure sinful or is it intended only for the creation of children?

 

It's also worth noting that not all homosexuals practice anal sex. Some homosexuals aren't sexually active at all. Are they sinning?

 

Why are there no protests outside of beauty shops? Isn't that a form of vanity? What about those who are entertained by secular music and movies? Isn't that worshipping a false prophet? What about those who attend college? In itself, such activity is a sin, at least if one wants to excel, because praying without ceasing would be impossible for someone trying to study. Wanting to better oneself is prideful, which is also a sin.

 

Admit it -- homosexuality is unfairly singled out because many Christians are bigots. The battle is not to support what is biblically right, but rather support what is socially acceptable. Convincing me otherwise would be difficult.

[Guest SP-1]

The heterosexuals who do it are sinning, too, Loss. You know my answer to that as well as I do. Sex is not only for procreation but you can't ignore the basic way people are designed. It was a blanket example of the most commonly recognized homosexual act. Don't try and drag it out further than the way I intended it.

 

As for those who harbor homosexual feelings but aren't engaging in sex, the question then becomes, "Why?" Are they Christians living in repentance, or have they just not found that right person to have sexual relations with? If it's repentance then no, they aren't sinning. If they're enjoying the other aspects of the lifestyle without sexual relations then they are still living with a heart geared towards the sin.

 

There's a difference between sinful vanity and enjoying the beauty available to you, and/or enjoying the beauty of others. When I marry my wife, I will have chosen her above all others because of her inner beauty and because I am attracted to her physically. There's nothing wrong with that in itself. When that enjoyment turns to pride and you base your self worth or the self worth of others off of it and place yourself above others, then it's sin. There's a difference between worship and being entertained. Music is also used IN worship and has been for quite some time. Do I sin because I try to eat right and I work out regularly? No. I don't do it for sinful purposes. I do it because I want to take care of the body that God has given me.

 

Sin is a heart issue in so many ways. The reasons why you do something and the extent to which you do it have alot to do with it.

 

I will admit nothing of the sort, Loss. Homosexuality is such a big issue because legislature moves and the hate crimes of non-Christians masquerading as Christians with an incorrect view of scripture to back themselves up have made it so. The Bible says its wrong in both the old testament and the new. God said its wrong. I disagree with it and defend the Christian stance but I don't condemn or hate gay people. I've pointed out numerous times that I have friendships with both current gays and former gays and sometimes we agree to disagree and continue on in our friendship. I don't stone them or try to hurt them. And I don't appreciate being grouped in with the people who do.

 

I'll put it to you this way: If I saw a gay person being harassed by a group of bigots, I'd stand with the gay person and, if need be, fight alongside him. Why? Because I love people and his sexual orientation doesn't mean he should be harrassed by violent idiots.

 

 

CronoT: When Jesus changed that particular part of the law He was doing something SYMBOLIC. There was a purpose to that. Since Jesus is God Incarnate, He certainly has a right to bring up symbolism.

 

Also: When Jesus stepped into conflicts like that, read a little futher and tell me what he tells the person who had sinned.

[Guest Loss]

If they're enjoying the other aspects of the lifestyle without sexual relations then they are still living with a heart geared towards the sin.

This was the only part of your rebuttal with which I had major issue. What other aspects of the lifestyle might you be referring to?

[NoCalMike 0]

"former gays" LOL. Well all reason to this discussion just flew out the door.

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

I don't think gay people would want you to back them up in a fight.

[EricMM 0]

At least queer-bashers are honest with themselves. None of this, passive-aggressive "Ok, I'll put up with ALLLLL your flaws. You're a bad person, and you're going to hell. But I'm SUCH a good person, I won't hold it against you. Much."

 

I will keep typing. I'm not going to search for your old posts, because this is today's argument. Post those simple old and new Testament verses condemning Homesexuality, and I'll post the old and new testament verses about having love for one's fellow man, and we'll see who gets more.

 

Everybody sins, SP. But some sins are bigger than others. A gay couple hurts nobody. They're helping each other. I tell you, God is for love, God IS love. Don't ignore the message of the book in lieu of one or two lines. A lot of people wrote what makes up the bible. It is NOT the inerrible or whatever the word is WORD of God. It is at best a primary source of events that happened in a very special time . But it was written by MEN. So it's not all pure. Nothing in this world is, or so it sometimes seems.

[Guest CronoT]

Also: When Jesus stepped into conflicts like that, read a little futher and tell me what he tells the person who had sinned.

I know exactly what he said, SP. He told her, "Then go, and sin no more." The point I was trying to make is the one that Jesus made when he said what is recorded in Matthew Chapter 7, verses 3-5:

 

Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye, with never a thought for the great plank in your own? Or how can you say to your brother, "let me take the speck out of your eye", when all the time there is that plank in your own? You hypocrite! First take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s.

[Damaramu 0]

Here's what I don't understand about the laws against gay marriage.

We're a country based on religous freedom and such.

Well why are we making laws that adhere to one religous view and are forcing those to adhere to this one religion when they may not practice or believe in it?

[Guest CronoT]

Here's what I don't understand about the laws against gay marriage.

We're a country based on religous freedom and such.

Well why are we making laws that adhere to one religous view and are forcing those to adhere to this one religion when they may not practice or believe in it?

Because this country is run by bigoted, religiously insecure pricks. These people are violating one of God's most fundemental laws: free will. When you violate that, you're raising yourself above God, by assuming that you know better than God.

[Guest SP-1]

Also:  When Jesus stepped into conflicts like that, read a little futher and tell me what he tells the person who had sinned.

I know exactly what he said, SP. He told her, "Then go, and sin no more." The point I was trying to make is the one that Jesus made when he said what is recorded in Matthew Chapter 7, verses 3-5:

 

Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye, with never a thought for the great plank in your own? Or how can you say to your brother, "let me take the speck out of your eye", when all the time there is that plank in your own? You hypocrite! First take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s.

What was your point with that, exactly? I can discern none. My struggles are not with homosexuality. It is not a plank in my eye. I live in repentance of my sins and don't try to deal with people with sins that I presently struggle with. Your point is invalid.

 

Don't try and use scripture against me if you don't really know what's going on in the passages you're throwing out.

 

 

Loss: Sex isn't the only thing that defines a relationship. If they're pursuing a romantic relationship with someone of the opposite sex it's still that sinful lifestyle.

 

Edwin: Pretty much anyone who five people bearing down on them would like a hand in a fight. Gay or straight.

 

Eric: Your Theology is so liberal that it borders on cheesy self help books instead of an actual relationship with God.

 

CronoT 2: Free Will is not a license to sin.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

A few days after Kerry's concession, Bill Clinton gave a speech at a conference of the Urban Land Institute in New York. The Daily News quoted him as saying that Kerry could have made more of an impact with small-town voters by emphasizing his opposition to gay marriage. "He said it once or twice, instead of 3,000 times, in rural communities. If we let people believe our party doesn't believe in faith and family, that's our fault."

See, shit like this is just part why I'm not a fan of Clinton, and why I groan and roll my eyes when I get "But Clinton did/didn't/woudln't do (x)" replies when I attack Republican politicians.

 

I'm sure it's what won him elections in the middle of a dry period for Democrats, though, and that just makes me more outraged. Those of us who don't like an active Judeo-Christian society have nothing to love about Bill Clinton.

[MrRant 0]

Awww...

 

Poor you. Do you want a tissue?

[Ripper 0]

A few days after Kerry's concession, Bill Clinton gave a speech at a conference of the Urban Land Institute in New York. The Daily News quoted him as saying that Kerry could have made more of an impact with small-town voters by emphasizing his opposition to gay marriage. "He said it once or twice, instead of 3,000 times, in rural communities. If we let people believe our party doesn't believe in faith and family, that's our fault."

See, shit like this is just part why I'm not a fan of Clinton, and why I groan and roll my eyes when I get "But Clinton did/didn't/woudln't do (x)" replies when I attack Republican politicians.

 

I'm sure it's what won him elections in the middle of a dry period for Democrats, though, and that just makes me more outraged. Those of us who don't like an active Judeo-Christian society have nothing to love about Bill Clinton.

Its called winning a fucking election. This is politics, not "lets always say the right thing". You bullshit your way in...thats just what you do. You don't sacrafice the religious vote for the gay vote. you don't sacrifice the white vote for the minority vote. Its just common sense.

 

 

And Spiderpoet, you certainly are doing some impressive question ducking in here. The New and Old Testaemnt don't contradict each other, huh? I mean, its only said in the New Testament about 100 times that this is the new law and the way of old is gone, so of course that translates into "Go back to the old testament and pick the stuff you like "gay is bad" and ignore the stuff like "its best when at war to kill all the enemy, and rape their wives and children".

 

If you believe that its wrong, cool, but stop attributing your beliefs to TRUE christianity. Thats YOUR beliefs as they were taught to you.

 

And the bible was written by man. The story about Moses was a lesson in how man can take gods word and use it to further his own agendas. Its RIGHT fucking there, yet we ignore the possiblity that MAYBE a homophobe wrote that part in the bible. Maybe a dude like long hair on the ladies and said "God said its an abomination to cut that sweety so, hey...you got to keep it long." Maybe a guy with only one son was upset when he broght home Mezakai instead of Mexakai's sister and wouldn't have a grandchild to continue his family name and said "But God said gay is an abomination and WRONG!!!"

[EricMM 0]

You're right, SP, I do find a relationship w/ God to be helpful. I dunno if I would say it's cheesy though. A lot of people find help, and help others through Christianity. You know that.

 

What NOT everyone does, is use Christianity to pick, pick, pick at other people. Judge other people.

 

Your hypocracy is clear for all to see. Why enforce any of it if you won't enforce it all. Gay sex offends you, so you persecute with your Bible. You won't answer a question, and you look ignorant. I'm sorry. But you've been making me look bad for years, being Christian as I am.

[Guest Jason]

I find this hilarious because it is so very hypocritical. First of all, could you imagine Christ saying "You are not welcome", to ANYBODY? I thought that was the whole point of Christianity.

 

Christ doesn't welcome non-believers into Heaven. That's pointed out very clearly in the Bible. And when he did dine with sinners, he didn't sit down and say "It's OK everyone, keep living in sin." He told them how live rightious, and he would tell Gays their lifestyles is wrong, plain and simple. I hate it when people try to say that God accepts sin.

First of all... Why do you have to believe Christ is the messiah to get into heaven? That's the biggest lump of shit I've ever heard. WHY ARE YOU FORCED TO BELIEVE A STORY OF A MAN THAT OTHER MEN HAVE TOLD YOU!? Don't give me the "faith" argument either. Why would God expect you to have faith in what we are taught by man, when man is so currupt. If Hitler *cough* won WWII and made it scripture that Jews are evil, I guess we'd be expected to believe that.. or we wouldn't go to heaven.

 

Secondly, why is being gay wrong? You don't choose to be gay. Yes, there are some people who it is a choice for I'm sure. But what are you suppose to do if guys give you erections and girls don't? You can't change that.

 

I'll stop here, because I just think religion is all a load of horse shit, and I'm sure there are plenty on this board who will take offense to it and prosicute me. After all, it's the way Jesus would have wanted it.

One word answer - Faith.

No matter what you believe, you are putting your faith in it. Whether you believe you simply have to be good to get into Heaven, or whether you don't even believe in Heaven or God, It is all a matter of Faith. I choose to believe in the Word of God.

 

And because I believe in the Word of God, I believe the Homosexuall lifestyle is sin.

[Ripper 0]

Christ doesn't welcome non-believers into Heaven. That's pointed out very clearly in the Bible. And when he did dine with sinners, he didn't sit down and say "It's OK everyone, keep living in sin." He told them how live rightious, and he would tell Gays their lifestyles is wrong, plain and simple. I hate it when people try to say that God accepts sin

 

Um, bullshit. Christ CLEARLY said that it is not necessary to believe in him but to be rightous(which translates to being a good person) He also never said, "Hey, gay lifestyle...why don't we cut that out, huh?" I mean, dude, he commented on EVERY fucking thing from what you can eat, to what the literal meaning of born again was, to what constitutes work on the sabbath...i mean he commented on everything. you would think he wouldn't have missed that whole "GAY" thing if he had a opinion on it. I mean that, "I give to you this final commandment" thing about loving one another being most important, that helps eradicate that. Bottomline, dude came out said ignore the old testament, did things that directly went against the old law, and some people are taught to this day to still support the old laws while some chose to live through the new testament.

 

Don't start speaking for what Jesus would have done or said because of what you were taught his traits might have been.

 

And dude...didnt you start the hitler thread?

[Guest BDC]

"I am the way, the truth and the light. No one reaches the Father except through me."

 

One sentence, Ripper, and the entire premise of your post is bunk.

[Ripper 0]

"I am the way, the truth and the light. No one reaches the Father except through me."

 

One sentence, Ripper, and the entire premise of your post is bunk.

If I had a bible by me right now i would SO eat this post alive....but I don't...BUT IF I DID!!!!!!!

 

 

*shakes fist*

 

 

*looks for online bible*

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

This thread is gay.

 

I'm sorry. It was there and I couldn't resist.

 

Continue on with your Bible talk...

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

Edwin: Pretty much anyone who five people bearing down on them would like a hand in a fight. Gay or straight.

No, this is exactly what I'm talking about. You've got this awful precondition going on. Your only justification for lowering yourself to help such a person is that they're about to experience physical harm. It's hypocritical dick-waving and five-year-old hero talk in regards to a person you think's going to burn in hell regardless. Helping a gay person in that situation is merely a means to show how noble a person you are, and that's it.

[Guest Loss]

This thread is gay.

 

I'm sorry. It was there and I couldn't resist.

 

Continue on with your Bible talk...

I got a chuckle out of this.

 

--Loss, thinking he had someone pegged wrong

[CanadianChris 0]

Here's what I don't understand about the laws against gay marriage.

We're a country based on religous freedom and such.

Well why are we making laws that adhere to one religous view and are forcing those to adhere to this one religion when they may not practice or believe in it?

This may be the best statement in this thread. Well done.

[Ripper 0]

Here's what I don't understand about the laws against gay marriage.

We're a country based on religous freedom and such.

Well why are we making laws that adhere to one religous view and are forcing those to adhere to this one religion when they may not practice or believe in it?

Because its fun.

[NoCalMike 0]

I am just wondering, would oral sex between heterosexuals be considered an abomination since then penis was "not meant" to enter a mouth?

[Guest BDC]

The crazy part is that until something like twenty, thirty years ago, that oral sex was considered deviance.

[NoCalMike 0]

The crazy part is that until something like twenty, thirty years ago, that oral sex was considered deviance.

Well maybe it made some people feel better about denouncing it in public , but to say that merely 20-30 years ago the large majority of people weren't doing such acts is a bit far fetched.

[Twisted Intestine 0]

Show me where scripture was retranslated over time.  There's a difference between copying for preservation and translating.  Know what you're talking about before you talk.

 

Right.. so you're saying the original version of the scripture was written in English?

 

1.  Because it's a sinful rebellion against the way God created humans.  In case you didn't notice, the penis and vagina fit together and were designed to.  The anal cavity is for the release of waste material and nothing more.  You want science?  There you go.   Both of those are facts. 

 

2.  What you are alluding to is genetic THEORY WHICH HAS NOT BEEN PROVEN.  Sorry to burst your bubble.  By the way, are you a believer in Darwin?  Because a species built on survival of the fittest won't deny itself the ability to procreate (which a genetic turn towards homosexuality would do).  It's an illogical "evolution" no matter how you look at it.

 

1. Ever hear of the "A Spot"? That pleasure source has to be back there for something.

 

2. Logical or illogical, for many it is not a choice which sex they are attracted to. Should they be punished because of a chemical inbalance causing them to like the same sex?

 

I don't see why God would care who we fuck. It's not hurting anyone.. The important thing should be that we're happy.

 

Your lack of knowledge about the Bible and what it says has already been demonstrated so I don't have a reason tot ake your assessment of Christ's character seriously.  However, in a way you are right.  It's not my job to prosecute you.  It is my job to point out what you don't understand or what you understand correctly and offer a correct view of scripture (based on academic hermenutical study).  It's my job to love you, not prosecute you.

 

This has been a message from the Christian Children's fund.

[Guest Loss]

Why would anyone actively choose to be gay? I think that's a perfectly excellent question.

[Crimson Platypus 0]

Why would anyone actively choose to be gay? I think that's a perfectly excellent question.

Yeah and if a person didn't "choose" to be gay, then god must have "made" them that way. I could be wrong but I remember reading somewhere that god made man in his own image (or something to that effect) so does that mean that god is gay?