Batista over Benoit

[zyn081 0]

One thing that can be said: UT is so protected, when someone DOES go over him fairly clean, it's big. I do think it helped Brock (I was worried when the aforementioned near-squash took place) and I remember when Rock pinned him in a handicap (Rock, Shamrock, Foley v UT and I think Kane?) It was pretty big, and sort of heralded Rock's assention to ME status.

 

I don't think it's helped JBL because he needs so much help all the time.

Eddie helped JBL, Booker didnt. UT could have but I am not sure if he should have. When Shelton beat HHH it was seen as so important. That should have been built on, but no, it was wasted. I dont think it was even mentioned during their beat the clock challange. Would it have killed JR to say, HHH is in trouble, and King to say this does not look good for The Game since hes never beaten Shelton. Come on they are getting paid to do that. Also, I think Batista did 2 good one liners on this weeks RAW (about the 100 bucks and helping HHH if he was in dire straits). Would it have killed the writers to have to say at one point: At least someone in Evo can beat Benoit. Wouldnt that have created even further tension? :S

[zyn081 0]

I don't mind the Benoit loss, but I must contend the above point: UT in the last few years has only lost to my knowledge to Brock ONCE (after essentially squahing him the month before) and when it's 3 on 1 odds.

 

I think it's better that they FINALLY gave Edge a win. Jesus had he won any matches since his turn?

He lost as clean as possible to Brock in HitC.

[zyn081 0]

He doesn't need to be treated like god. Just like a main eventer.

EXACTLY. A ME star should be treated as so, not put over people at his PURE expense.

but how do you get a new star over without making a current star job? what's makes Batista a more believable threat? killing Stevie Richards or barely getting past Benoit?

Yes, I agree entirely, as I have said so many times in this post, but this ('barely getting past Benoit') could have been hyped so much more. Its little things that improve the product, those small touches.

 

One think that really gets my back is why didnt Brock aim for Angle's ankle in the Iron Man Match instead of the knee, it would have been a bit more believable.

[zyn081 0]

no I just thought it was funny...it was all good, you brought the content...

More like fuel and wood for the fire. I dont want to come across as drowning the topic out, its just that the time zones as so different.

 

Its the little things that matter to me, such as Eugene being speared out of the ring when Edge could have beaten the clock. WWE, and RAW, could add a number of touches to each show, making it more coherent. A good show does not mean that people will tune in next week, but they will over time, if each show builds on the other.

 

RAW is full of wasted touches, that you wonder how do they get some things right, by accident?

[zyn081 0]

You know, you can address multiple quotes in one post.

Yes, I know, but this is the 1st real forum im using and its all pretty new to me. I am more used to IM. I only just discovered the Quote button with every post a few days ago.

[zyn081 0]

I wonder where the arguments were for REY MYSTERIO, a Cruiserweight, pinning the former WWE Champion Eddie Guerrero CLEAN last week on Smackdown. I think a guy who's barely 5'4" winning clean and decisive is much worse to someone in Eddie or Benoits position than to a guy who's 6'4", made of solid muscle, and is a beast (and also getting pushed).

That was portrayed correctly, Rey outsmarted Eddie.

Yes, and Batista used an exposed turnbuckle to his advantage, which you could class as out-smarting. You could also say it was Flair-esque influence. To use something to your advantage, no matter how immoral.

 

 

It seems the problem wasn't so much the booking (Batista over Benoit), but the fact that either JR and King are dogging it, the people feeding them the info they need to talk about were too concerned (and rightfully so, seeing as this push could be a make or break one with Orton's push not going perfectly) about getting Batista's image right and forgetting about the match or, most likely, a combination of the two.

I think its more a case of WWE coming up with half an idea and saying thats great, no point in making it any better.

[{''({o..o})''} 0]

I only mentioned because it's considered "bad netiquette" to have that many posts back to back, and some get annoyed easily here.

[zyn081 0]

I only mentioned because it's considered "bad netiquette" to have that many posts back to back, and some get annoyed easily here.

Yes, I know. I am new here. Is there a quick easy way to include multiple quotes in a post and your response to each?

[{''({o..o})''} 0]

You can copy/paste the selection and use {quote} before it, and {/quote} behind it. Just replace the { and } with [ and ], this can be done multiple times per post. Or just refer to the person or persons you are responding to in the paragraph of your response. You'll pick it up fast, you seem a bright enough fellow.

[zyn081 0]

You can copy/paste the selection and use {quote} before it, and {/quote} behind it. Just replace the { and } with [ and ], this can be done multiple times per post. Or just refer to the person or persons you are responding to in the paragraph of your response. You'll pick it up fast, you seem a bright enough fellow.

Thanks alot. Was that sarcasm I detected.

 

Is along post replying to a number of people "bad netiquette" too.

[{''({o..o})''} 0]

No sarcasm, long posts aren't usually a problem, but it's not always needed to quote whole posts, just the main points you are responding to.

EDIt: You got a chuckle, heh.

[zyn081 0]

just the main points you are responding to.

Thanks alot.

[Scroby 0]

Apprently people are pist because JR didn't talk about the exposed turnbuckle....who cares! JR and the king were to busy promoting Batista's strength to talk about Batista using the metal turnbuckle. Any other time yes JR/King would have been talking a storm about how Batista using the exposed turnbuckle on Beniot's head was dirty and a bad way of winning the match but you got to realize that with Batista heading for that face turn, talking down on Batista would only hurt his turn. JR and the King were just promoting him to the tv crowd so the crowd would start cheering him.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Apparently, you didn't read the thread. Which, funnily, is the theme of this thread.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

I actually would have done the same thing, but I would also have Benoit beat Batista clean to end the EC to balance things out. I wouldn't be surprised to see Benoit be the first eliminated, and it is that, not this job that will be the more harmful.

[Scroby 0]

Apparently, you didn't read the thread. Which, funnily, is the theme of this thread.

 

I tried but it was basically the same shit repeated over and over again. So I scanned through most of it.

[Vyce 0]

I don't mind the Benoit loss, but I must contend the above point: UT in the last few years has only lost to my knowledge to Brock ONCE (after essentially squahing him the month before) and when it's 3 on 1 odds.

 

I think it's better that they FINALLY gave Edge a win. Jesus had he won any matches since his turn?

He lost as clean as possible to Brock in HitC.

I just watched that match again a few weeks ago, and that loss was prefaced by Brock "breaking" the Undertaker's hand / wrist, along with various other sneak attacks in the days leading up to the match.

 

I really would like someone to give me statistics on the last time Taker jobbed CLEAN to anyone. It doesn't fucking count if there was interference, or if the heel assaulted Taker on the Smackdown before the bit PPV match, etc. When was the last time someone got a clean pinfall on Taker. I'm willing to bet that it happened YEARS ago.

 

I don't want to steer this into a Taker discussion, but really - anyone who has this idea that "when he finally does lose to someone, it will mean something!" is fucking delusional. He's NOT going to. Taker is LONG past the point now where he should be wrapping up his career by putting over the younger guys, and he ain't doing it, and he won't be doing it any time soon.

 

Apprently people are pist because JR didn't talk about the exposed turnbuckle....who cares! JR and the king were to busy promoting Batista's strength to talk about Batista using the metal turnbuckle. Any other time yes JR/King would have been talking a storm about how Batista using the exposed turnbuckle on Beniot's head was dirty and a bad way of winning the match but you got to realize that with Batista heading for that face turn, talking down on Batista would only hurt his turn. JR and the King were just promoting him to the tv crowd so the crowd would start cheering him.

 

Rudo is right in that you just haven't been reading the thread.

 

Again, this all goes back to how it would have taken virtually NO EFFORT at all for the announcers (or hell, the bookers) to portray the match in a way that benefited both Batista AND Benoit.

 

Don't give me this shit about how they're just focused on Batista. That's idiotic, short-sighted, and it's flat out BAD business to COMPLETELY put over someone at the expense of the another worker, when it would take only a modest amount of effort to make both of them look strong.

[Guest wildpegasus]

I don't mind the Benoit loss, but I must contend the above point: UT in the last few years has only lost to my knowledge to Brock ONCE (after essentially squahing him the month before) and when it's 3 on 1 odds.

 

I think it's better that they FINALLY gave Edge a win. Jesus had he won any matches since his turn?

He lost as clean as possible to Brock in HitC.

I just watched that match again a few weeks ago, and that loss was prefaced by Brock "breaking" the Undertaker's hand / wrist, along with various other sneak attacks in the days leading up to the match.

 

I really would like someone to give me statistics on the last time Taker jobbed CLEAN to anyone. It doesn't fucking count if there was interference, or if the heel assaulted Taker on the Smackdown before the bit PPV match, etc. When was the last time someone got a clean pinfall on Taker. I'm willing to bet that it happened YEARS ago.

 

I don't want to steer this into a Taker discussion, but really - anyone who has this idea that "when he finally does lose to someone, it will mean something!" is fucking delusional. He's NOT going to. Taker is LONG past the point now where he should be wrapping up his career by putting over the younger guys, and he ain't doing it, and he won't be doing it any time soon.

 

Apprently people are pist because JR didn't talk about the exposed turnbuckle....who cares! JR and the king were to busy promoting Batista's strength to talk about Batista using the metal turnbuckle. Any other time yes JR/King would have been talking a storm about how Batista using the exposed turnbuckle on Beniot's head was dirty and a bad way of winning the match but you got to realize that with Batista heading for that face turn, talking down on Batista would only hurt his turn. JR and the King were just promoting him to the tv crowd so the crowd would start cheering him.

 

Rudo is right in that you just haven't been reading the thread.

 

Again, this all goes back to how it would have taken virtually NO EFFORT at all for the announcers (or hell, the bookers) to portray the match in a way that benefited both Batista AND Benoit.

 

Don't give me this shit about how they're just focused on Batista. That's idiotic, short-sighted, and it's flat out BAD business to COMPLETELY put over someone at the expense of the another worker, when it would take only a modest amount of effort to make both of them look strong.

I remember reading house show results and seeing that Bret Hart defeated the Undertaker several times on house shows. Can someone comment on that?

 

 

As for televised stuff the only single match I know of Undertaker losing cleanly is .... uhhh ..... I can't think of anything. Even HHH loses to the Undertaker in what I say was one of the smartest moves HHH has ever done.

 

As for televised tags the Undertaker once lost to Kama the Supreme fighting machine. I remember this because you take note of when the Undertaker loses because it just never happens. On one fine Monday Night Raw in a tag match the Undertaker lost completely out of the blue to a belly to belly suplex from Kama.

 

Some notes about this -- THis is from memory and my memory is poor.

 

Kama was a midcarder and way below the Undertaker's status level.

 

The Undertaker lost to a belly to belly suplex to a guy he wasn't even feuding with. Nothing to my knowledge even came from this. No feud or anything.

 

In my opinion though this to me came off as a break of kayfabe. Anybody and I mean anybody watching this would think. "That's crap. Undertaker only lost because it was rigged." because that's what it came off as. It'd be like watch Lewis taking a dive to a nobody in boxing. Obviously rigged.

 

In another tag match on Raw when they were setting up for the Benoit vs Taker vs Kane vs Rock PPV match in 2000 the Undertaker lost to Benoit in the leadup to it. Undertaker had Benoit in the last ride posistion only for Kane to clothesline Taker and Benoit rolling through for a "weak looking" pin. This is the same deal that happened with the Kama except it wasn't as bad. Undertaker once again takes a weak looking move for a pin that just screams "I'm taking a dive and I'm being a good guy by putting someone over". The other great thing about this is that with all the commotion afterwards the focus was taken COMPLETELY off of the pin and the pin was never mentioned again.

 

I do not of any other Undertaker losses.

[Vyce 0]

As for televised tags the Undertaker once lost to Kama the Supreme fighting machine. I remember this because you take note of when the Undertaker loses because it just never happens. On one fine Monday Night Raw in a tag match the Undertaker lost completely out of the blue to a belly to belly suplex from Kama.

I remember that match, specifically because it's the last time I can remember Taker jobbing clean to someone (and I should also note, that match took place around....1998 or so).

 

If memory serves, it was a RAW main event, in which Taker teamed up with someone (I forget who) to take on Farooq, who at this point was just starting the Nation of Domination. Kama was making his re-debut that night (returning to TV, I should say) as part of the Nation, and I even think it was a handicap match where Taker & his partner faced off against Farooq, Kama, and maybe D-Lo Brown.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

I know Mankind has at least a few wins over Taker...were any of those clean?

[Sass 0]

Batista beating Benoit isn't too bad for right now, with the Elimination Chamber match coming up, and he hasn't really gotten the best of any top star except for HBK and Benoit (but not really much though). Besides, Batista is 36 right now and has torn his rotator cuff twice. He probably needs to be pushed sooner rather than later since he's catching on with the fans, something rare nowadays. He might not be able to last with Orton, Cena, Benjamin and co. like the WWE would like him to for at least 5 more years.

[zyn081 0]

I don't mind the Benoit loss, but I must contend the above point: UT in the last few years has only lost to my knowledge to Brock ONCE (after essentially squahing him the month before) and when it's 3 on 1 odds.

 

I think it's better that they FINALLY gave Edge a win. Jesus had he won any matches since his turn?

He lost as clean as possible to Brock in HitC.

I just watched that match again a few weeks ago, and that loss was prefaced by Brock "breaking" the Undertaker's hand / wrist, along with various other sneak attacks in the days leading up to the match.

 

I really would like someone to give me statistics on the last time Taker jobbed CLEAN to anyone. It doesn't fucking count if there was interference, or if the heel assaulted Taker on the Smackdown before the bit PPV match, etc. When was the last time someone got a clean pinfall on Taker. I'm willing to bet that it happened YEARS ago.

 

I don't want to steer this into a Taker discussion, but really - anyone who has this idea that "when he finally does lose to someone, it will mean something!" is fucking delusional. He's NOT going to. Taker is LONG past the point now where he should be wrapping up his career by putting over the younger guys, and he ain't doing it, and he won't be doing it any time soon.

 

Apprently people are pist because JR didn't talk about the exposed turnbuckle....who cares! JR and the king were to busy promoting Batista's strength to talk about Batista using the metal turnbuckle. Any other time yes JR/King would have been talking a storm about how Batista using the exposed turnbuckle on Beniot's head was dirty and a bad way of winning the match but you got to realize that with Batista heading for that face turn, talking down on Batista would only hurt his turn. JR and the King were just promoting him to the tv crowd so the crowd would start cheering him.

 

Rudo is right in that you just haven't been reading the thread.

 

Again, this all goes back to how it would have taken virtually NO EFFORT at all for the announcers (or hell, the bookers) to portray the match in a way that benefited both Batista AND Benoit.

 

Don't give me this shit about how they're just focused on Batista. That's idiotic, short-sighted, and it's flat out BAD business to COMPLETELY put over someone at the expense of the another worker, when it would take only a modest amount of effort to make both of them look strong.

Thats why I said as clean as possible. UT hasnt lost a programme or a feud clean since at least 1997.

 

Oh, and Kahran, I would be surprised if hes still in the match after the 1st elimination.

[Scroby 0]

Don't give me this shit about how they're just focused on Batista. That's idiotic, short-sighted, and it's flat out BAD business to COMPLETELY put over someone at the expense of the another worker, when it would take only a modest amount of effort to make both of them look strong.

 

 

Back it up for a second, I never said they just focused on Batista for the entire match. I just ment for that moment, and I already responded to what Rudo had said to me. I started scanning through it when the same thing started getting repeated by other people.