The anime/puroresu connection

[Guest wildpegasus]

The puroresu anime connection. Was there ever a slight connection between the two? Now there really isn't but back around 95 or so when anime wasn't as popular it seemed to me that you were a lot more likely to run into someone who was a fan of both artforms rather than just one.

 

Some of this had to do with the similarities between the two. Both were vastly different than their North American counterparts. Anime like puroresu tended to be more imaginative, realistic at times and just went into areas North American animation never even touched. I think there was also a sense of pride for viewers who watched both. Sort of like getting that rare antique. The person who tended to know about puroresu would know about anime and some of the people who followed anime would know about puroresu.

 

There were over a few instances where upon reading or talking to someone I noticed this connection every once in awhile. Now I would say a lot of it doesn't exist.

 

So now my question is this. Was I just imagining this connection back in the day or was there something to it? Anyone care to share their opinions?

[Art Sandusky 0]

Well, people devoted to both are pricks. Same with people who are really into the import tuning scene. And Japanese music.

 

People who are really devoted to some facet of Japanese culture are just really big assholes and I can't figure out why.

[Special K 0]

Hardly. It's just a niche thing, and someone who gets way too into a niche or cult thing is going to probably be obsessive. There are planty of people who like anime and/or puro who are perfectly chill.

 

The only connection I can think of is Tiger Mask was a manga character originally.

[Art Sandusky 0]

Maybe I just have the misfortune of running into the worst of each crowd, but for every example of a nice guy that's a fan of that stuff, I've met ten that aren't.

[Masked Man of Mystery 0]

I'd hope if we met you wouldn't call me a jerk. Most of the anime fans I know are pretty decent folks, but then, I'm an insider, so what do I know?

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

I agree with Kotz, I'm into anime and puro but it's really hard to find other people to chat with because 9 out of 10 are complete asses. There are nice fans out there but the assholes have chased them all away.

[Nighthawk 0]

There are several Japanese wrestlers based on cartoons, now aren't there? They base characters of some weird ass shit. Cartoons aren't that weird... but yeah.

 

Well, you know, puroresu is Japanese wrestling, and anime is Japanese cartoons, and they are reputed to be better than other kinds of wrestling and cartoons, therefore there is implied elitism by their very nature. That's why the fans are pricks.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

Jushin Liger's based on a comic book character. Can't remember who he's based on though.

[El Psycho Diablo 0]

Jushin Liger's based on a comic book character. Can't remember who he's based on though.

Appropriately enough, that's the name of the anime he's based on.

[Lightning Flik 0]

Well, people devoted to both are pricks. Same with people who are really into the import tuning scene. And Japanese music.

 

People who are really devoted to some facet of Japanese culture are just really big assholes and I can't figure out why.

I'm a prick!? Well, I'll be damned. Can't even like a facet of another culture without being stereotyped.

 

All seriousness now, I know that wasn't intended as slight to the otaku* but of course to the people who've soured your opinion on the otaku.

 

I agree with Kotz, I'm into anime and puro but it's really hard to find other people to chat with because 9 out of 10 are complete asses.  There are nice fans out there but the assholes have chased them all away.

Yes, there are some assholes in the fandom. Although, most of the ones I meet are good guys around where I live. I think for the assholes, they just get a little too much into the "OMG ITS DIFFERENT, WHICH MAKES IT 100% BETTER" mode of thought. As much of anime and/or puroresu have their own faults and negatives.

 

Well, you know, puroresu is Japanese wrestling, and anime is Japanese cartoons, and they are reputed to be better than other kinds of wrestling and cartoons, therefore there is implied elitism by their very nature. That's why the fans are pricks.

I don't know about puroresu, but I do believe anime is better and I don't think that makes me an elitist prick.

 

I believe they are simply because they put more effort into the overall product. They make storylines that would never be done in North America (not PC enough), have rich vibrant characters, also the artwork is usually second to none, they get famous actors (or rather, Seiryuu**) whom are well known and put their hearts into the roles, and even Japanese musicians are willing to lend their talents. Its like a full realistic TV series production in Japan.

 

Whereas if you compare them to our own anime***, we half ass it really. Most of the music is generic in sound, the art can range from God awful to actually being quite good (but more range into "bleh"), the voice actors are generally never really known outside the few (and don't give that great of a performance in some cases), the characters are pretty stereotypical and don't really evolve, and the storylines are quite basic and PC.

 

However, we've been getting better in our aspect of anime, but until something comes along and is earth shattering in the way it makes more "mainstream", its not gonna be able to have a lasting appeal.

 

Maybe its also because Japanese anime has spoiled me on what I expect from my anime now. I expect them to have robust characters, for the storylines to be outrageous and awesome, for the music to be stellar, to be able to know who is playing the characters in the anime, and for the animation to be nearly pristine in nature.

 

But at least this is my thought as to why I consider it "better" and not "OMG ITS ALL BETTER AND YOU CAN STUFF YOUR CARTOONS WHERE THE SUN DON'T SHINE, CAUSE ANIME ROCKS AND THERE ISN'T ANYTHING BETTER!"

 

There are some animes of North American that I think rack up better than some of the Japanese. I just prefer the whole product of the anime to its current counterpart. I also believe this is the case for most of the otaku as well, so I don't think you should include all of us in the "elitist" category. Some of us take our passion for our anime too seriously to stop and think about not trying to come off as a bastard when we speak about it.

 

 

Below is just some helpers in case you are lost on some of my usage of Japanese words.

* - Otaku is Japanese for fandom, if I remember my Japanese correctly, its usually used in a negative connotation, whereas in North America it is used in an positive term. Go figure.

 

** - Seiryuu is Japanese for voice actor. These voice actors are highly touted celebrities and well known for the voice works they do. Some of them are even as big of stars as regular actors. In North America, however, you hardly ever would know who does voice acting, nor do they get the same treatment as regular actors.

 

*** - Anime is really just Japanese for animation, which should make it perfectly acceptable to use the same word for cartoons. If I recall though, it isn't acceptable for the usage I just used it in, but I can't remember why.

[Nighthawk 0]

You know, there's a guy who did voices in Street Fighter cartoons, and he did Akuma and M. Bison (or Gouki and Vega for you ultradorks). I like that guy because he sounds a lot like me. It works pretty well. I would sound cool if I spoke Japanese.

[Nighthawk 0]

By the way, the lowest of the low are people who call it Japanimation.

[Guest The Ohtani of Time]

By the way, the lowest of the low are people who call it Japanimation.

Agreed.

[Guest wildpegasus]

What I'm mostly talking about is wether years ago you were more likely to find fans of both products than you are today. A higher percentage if you will.

 

 

 

Anyway, a cool story here taken from a disucssion at puroresu.com about the Hogan/Inoki KO incident

 

 

From what I understand, both stories are not correct. Inoki was in a trouble with Ikki Kajiwara, author of "Tiger Mask" cartoon over the use of Sayama's gimmick. Initially, Kajiwara supported/authorized the gimmick but for some reason, he started threatening Inoki by using an organized crime group. Inoki was even "locked in" a hotel room once. The story is true up to this point. It was said that Inoki wanted to fake the KO so that he can be hospitalized and stay away from Kajiwara's group.

 

Inoki basically "fooled" just about everyone within the company, and Seiji Sakaguchi got so upset and once tried to leave New Japan because of that. Soon later, there was a coup within the office, and Inoki, Sakaguchi, and Shinma were forced to resign from their positions. Inoki and Sakaguchi returned within a year as the president and vice president respectively, but Shinma never returned to New Japan until he appeared at Tokyo Dome card this year after almost 20 years of absence from New Japan.

 

 

 

WP -- THe Tiger Mask show rules by the way.

[Special K 0]

I can understand where you're coming from in a way, Kotz. Lots of people like anime nowadays (puro's a cult segment of a cult segment), but if a friend, much less a stranger, is not interested in it, I don't blab about it. Hell, I don't even really talk about it besides message boards.

If you're a cult fan of anything and you can't shut up about it, and it's all you talk about, you're probably sort of a freak and may cover with elitism.

One of the cool things about anime and puro, is that when you're new to it, you have 15-20 years of stuff you can cull through, and find all kinds of awesome shows/matches. Generally ignoring all the shitty shows/promotions out there, one may feel that that genre can do no wrong. In reality, there is tons of shit anime with some awesome shows, pretty much like American TV. There are tons of shit puro matches (and these REALLY suck becuase they are always given like 15-20 minutes with some awesome matches just like American wrestling. Ignoring this, people get snobby and start looking down on perfectly awesome matches like Austin/Flair because they regard it as an inherently inferior product. If you were suddenly exposed to the WWE by being given the best matches from the last 5 years, you would think it was Godly.

 

So basically, chill on the elitism. Entertainment is entertainment regardless of country of origin. If you can't look beyond that, you're missing out on good stuff.

 

I can't believe I just wrote such a long-winded treatise on this.

[Guest Loss]

I've heard some get upset that it has to be called "anime", as if giving it a separate name is elitist and wrong in and of itself. "Why not just call them cartoons?" they say.

[Guest sek69]

It goes both ways I think. "Anime" carries a bit if implied elitism because of the people who are all OMG JAPAN IZ BETTOR~! yet i think calling them cartoons carries the stereotype of children's shows which 9/10ths of anime is decidedly not.

 

I think Cartoon Network did a good job with its Adult Swim block of getting anime shows over without getting all elitist.

 

BTW, there's a store in my area called Joy's Japanamation and the commercials are geared toward the hardcore anime freak. Talk about completely missing your audience.

[BrokenTiger 0]

So basically, chill on the elitism. Entertainment is entertainment regardless of country of origin. If you can't look beyond that, you're missing out on good stuff.

Well said, sir.

 

Living in South East Asia, I've been exposed to a healthy dose of Anime....as well as North American cartoon shows. There's pros and cons from both styles, of course. There's a friend of mine who HATES anime because he thinks animes just consists of those big-eyed, sailoormoon types. Sad but true.

 

As a former student of graphic arts, I could tell you that most of us so-called 'creative types' prefer animes as the art style/drawing/character design is supposedly superior. Hope that doesn't sound too elitist...just presenting my perpective on it. Me? As long as it's entertaining, I'm gonna watch it...be it animes/cartoons or puros/wrestling.

 

Speaking on the original topic: I remembered on one of the many 'Ultraman' series the Ultra guys fights with some wrestling moves, I kid you not. Front headlock, ddt, even suplexes...or maybe those overcaffeinated nights has finally broken down my brain.

[Ced 0]

Pretty much echoing sek69's words, but here's my take on it.

 

Anime has pretty much developed into a universal term. You say cartoons to a person and they might think of the Powerpuff Girls or South Park, but if you say anime, they'll more often than not know what is implied. Sure, there is a hint of elitism in the term, but it's recognized as a term for animation from Japan.

 

As for the "anime > everything else" argument, it's bullshit. Japan creates great animated shows, but it also creates utter shit just like everybody other country. I think alot of the elitism comes from the people that either don't realize or turn a blind eye to the fact that the really awful shows are hardly ever brought over domestically. Hence, the illusion is created that everything from Japan is great when it couldn't be further from the truth.