Eddy/JBL 2004 MOTY

[Tim Cooke 0]

Eddy Guerrero vs. Bradshaw (5/04 - Judgement Day WWE)

 

Has no one seen this because Bradshaw is in the match? I can't think of a WWE match this good in a long time. This really isn't a typical WWE match, minus the ref bumps. The first great thing is the video package. Regardless of his wrestling ability (more on that below), the JBL character is pretty decent. Hunting for illegal immigrants on the Mexican border is pretty great, right up there with Dusty in the locker room after the 3/13 ROH show "I smell somethin.....I smell somethin....they shit in our bags." The heart attack angle is goofy but heart attack angles in wrestling generally aren't the most thought out stories.

 

Eddy starts out on fire, with an all out brawl on Bradshaw for what he stands for and more importantly, what he did to his mom. This segment was almost squash like, with Eddy just pounding on Bradshaw and Bradshaw bumping and selling pretty well. Most WWE brawls I see are usually very back and forth but Eddy gets a lot of time to just brawl. Eddy's punches look good as well and I have never really been a fan since his european uppercuts and forearms are generally top notch.

 

All Bradshaw can do early on to slow down Guerrero is a side headlock takeover twice. The first small turning point is when Bradshaw is thrown out of the ring. Eddy follows up with a plancha but Bradshaw catches him and uses a fall a way slam on the floor to gain some advantage. He follows this up with a suplex on the spanish announcers table and then gives Eddy a back body drop in the ring. Eddy's back is a big target with Bradshaw then putting on a bearhug, only for Eddy to make a comeback and it really looks as if Bradshaw has nothing to stop the determined Guerrero, champion and defender of the people who JBL has ridiculed endless times.

 

So then we have the standard WWE ref bump, though Eddy matches seem to have innovative ways to knock the ref out (his first Smackdown match this year against Rey had a decent ref bump). Bradshaw takes Eddy to the outside and waffles him with a chairshot and Eddy is bleeding a huge gusher, maybe the worst I have ever seen.

 

So now Eddy is fucked. The blood is squirting out, leaving huge puddles all over the floor. Eddy could take Bradshaw's physical pain in the ring but now with a major blood loss, he is in deep trouble. The match turns much more WWE here with the nearfall section, though the blood helps a lot, as does the crowd really rallying Eddy.

 

As I watched this with my brother, we both instantly saw how what was happening in the match got the crowd involved, unlike the WMXX three way, which had a crowd that was anti-establishment and sick of Trips/Shawn and new Benoit would at least make a huge bid for the title, so let's root for him. Here, it is the story in the match that is engaging the crowd.

 

The ending was a surprise too. I knew it was a DQ, but didn't know that Bradshaw brought the chair and belt in, distracted the ref with the chair, and tried to use the belt, only for Eddy to get the belt and whack him right in front of the ref, to get DQ'ed. Made sense as Bradshaw couldn't lose since they knew they wanted to keep pushing him but also didn't make Eddy look weak at all. He wasn't using the belt because he was desperate, he used it for revenge from the out of the match story and the blood story. And post-match, Eddy continues beating on Bradshaw to the point where Bradshaw finally cowards away and escapes.

 

Eddy was spot on in this match. His selling early on for the short back work was great. I usually don't like his locomotion suplex spot at all (reminds me of Shane Douglas doing that spot in 2000 WCW and taking 2 minutes to execute three simple back to back suplexes). But here he did them much slower as he couldn't spin around fast on this back to get into position for the next suplex. The bladejob was sick. No wonder he went to the hospital right away. But the bladejob added a lot to the match. A normal amount of blood would have worked too but the sickening amount here brought it up another level.

 

Bradshaw was capable in this match. He bumped and stooged well (and often), didn't go to rest holds when he was done with his offense (which is a major WWE beef of mine), and was generally actually fun to watch. If he wants to be Stan Hanson very very lite, he needs to add the knee drops, but for Stan Hanson very x 5 lite, he was good. Just the opening section was something guys like Trips or Undertaker would have never done or if they did, they wouldn't have bumped as well on the floor for punches and let Eddy control that entire segment.

 

In terms of performances, the Halloween Havoc match vs. Rey Jr, the 6/11-12/96 BOSJ Semis and Finals vs. Benoit & Liger are better than this. But after that? I'm not sure. That's how good this is. I didn't believe it even with people whose opinions I trust telling me about it. So so glad I got this.

 

WWE MOTY.

[SamoaRowe 0]

I liked their GAB match a lot better.

[AndrewTS 0]

There's only one "e" in "Judgment."

 

The card wasn't exactly an interesting one, either.

[landy1987 0]

There's only one "e" in "Judgment."

thats how you Americans spell it. In the Uk (and maybe Australia and somewhere else?) its "Judgement"

[SuperJerk 0]

No match with a DQ or run-in finish deserves to be considered MOTY. Period.

[Guest Loss]

So is anyone who has seen the match and disagrees actually going to take the time to go through his points and refute them or are you just going to stick to pointing out spelling errors and making generic comments about the finish?

 

I haven't seen the match or I'd comment on it.

[Guest Loss]

No match with a DQ or run-in finish deserves to be considered MOTY. Period.

This is bullshit. Of course, a clean finish is always preferred, but think about the best match you've ever seen and imagine it ending in a DQ. Would you then say the match sucked and that none of the good work prior to the finish was any good?

[Guest combat_rock]

Yeah, Guerrero vs. Lesnar is my WWE MOTY, and it had the Goldberg run in. It was still a fucking awesome and classic match though.

[bob_barron 0]

I saw the match and I thought it was pretty good but Bradshaw looked completely gassed at several points and I hated the DQ ending.

 

And Loss- if a great match ends in a bullshit DQ it will take my away enjoyment of it- no matter how good the match.

 

I think the crowd was on fire during the match because of Eddy's big following in the Latino community and the show being in LA. I gave the match about ***1/2

[Eclipse 0]

I thought Guerrero/Lesnar was way better. Before that, Eddie was on a huge roll. He was SO IN LINE to get that title. Just as everyone thought that Lesnar was gonna get the win like always, Goldberg STILL managed to come back and STILL screw Lesnar at the end. The emotions were running high at the point.

[Guest LooneyTune]

I haven't seen the match so I cannot comment as an unbias poster. I will say though, the finish alone should disqualify a match as MOTY.

 

Personally, Benoit/HHH/HBK should win. Some argue it's not a great match, but Benoit's storyline going into the match adds to it. It's probably one of few matches I can watch over and over without getting tired of it.

[BHK 0]

No match with a DQ or run-in finish deserves to be considered MOTY.  Period.

This is bullshit. Of course, a clean finish is always preferred, but think about the best match you've ever seen and imagine it ending in a DQ. Would you then say the match sucked and that none of the good work prior to the finish was any good?

Well, there are lots of people that dislike Austin/Angle SS '01 because of the DQ finish.

[AndrewTS 0]

There's only one "e" in "Judgment."

thats how you Americans spell it. In the Uk (and maybe Australia and somewhere else?) its "Judgement"

http://www.silvervision.co.uk/product.asp?...WWE1079&recno=8

 

So on that.

 

I also have huge doubts that this can touch Eddy/Brock, either.

[Guest Evolution]

This did have a fairly decent build to it for a match on a second-tier PPV, but I too didn't enjoy the heart attack angle. I think Judgment Day was the first time I realized that JBL wasn't too bad, but I still didn't like it that he seemed on the fasttrack to the WWE title.

 

I did enjoy how the story in the beginning was that Eddie was, for the most part, dominating JBL and leaving JBL no choice but to bump the ref. Usually I don't appreciate ref bumps, but that one was well-placed. And then, of course, JBL hits Eddie with the chair, and the match gets really ugly. I remember watching this with my friends at a local movie theater and we were freaking out over just how much blood he was losing. It added a lot to the match, I thought.

 

The DQ finish is still kinda weak. It was the best way to protect both JBL and Eddie that I can think of, but it would've been better if the match had been lower in the card so that the main event would be able to deliver on Vince's usually policy of letting the fans go home happy (because I believe the last image that fans at Judgment Day saw was Eddie getting carried away after passing out from the blood loss).

 

Not Match of the Year, because the Great American Bash was better due to using the gimmick to what I thought was near-perfection, but reading your analysis made me appreciate the Judgment Day match a lot more than just for Eddie's bladejob.

 

And I agree that a DQ finish or a run-in does not guarantee a match not being great. In the case of Eddie/Lesnar that was previously mentioned, that run-in was amazing and though some fans thought it cheated the title victory for Eddie, they would soon come to realize that Eddie would be all about the cheating, even as a face.

[Open the Muggy Gate 0]

No match with a DQ or run-in finish deserves to be considered MOTY. Period.

Shawn Michaels vs. Mankind, Mind Games 1996. Ended in a DQ and was MOTY for some.

[Angle-plex 0]

Personally, Benoit/HHH/HBK should win. Some argue it's not a great match, but Benoit's storyline going into the match adds to it. 

Benoit had a storyline that added to that match?

 

I agree that Benoit/HHH/HBK was MOTY, although it still wasn't ***** like some say. I didn't see the Eddie/JBL match but found Eddie/Brock to be nothing special. I think most say Eddie/Brock is better than it really is because of the emotional aspects of Eddie's title victory.

[Guest Evolution]

No match with a DQ or run-in finish deserves to be considered MOTY.  Period.

Shawn Michaels vs. Mankind, Mind Games 1996. Ended in a DQ and was MOTY for some.

I thought that was more of a no-contest? This is being said without me having seen the actual match, of course.

[Guest Loss]

Shawn won the match by DQ when Vader interfered. The post-match brawl erupted from there.

[pochorenella 0]

I've only seen the match once, and didn't really like it that much. Maybe I should try and check it out again, but my mind is made up regarding HHH vs HBK vs Benoit as 2004's MOTY so it's unlikely that'll change for me. Also the GAB rematch I remember liking more, although I only watched it once, too.

 

Regarding matches with DQs or run-ins, etc. being considered as MOTY, I agree with Muggy. HBK vs Mankind is my MOTY for 1996. Austin vs Rock from WMX-7 is one of the greatest Mania MAin Events ever IMO and it had that Vince run-in. Austin vs Angle from SSlam I also love, ditto for Rock vs HHH Iron Man from JDay 2000, which had the Taker run-in.

[Special K 0]

are you just going to stick to pointing out spelling errors

 

Loss, this is a serious matter that must be attended to!

 

Linkeroo

 

And yeah, Mind Games was my MOTY, but the non-finish DID hurt it. While a DQ ending cannot ruin a match, it almost always hurts it, unlessit's done in an original manner. I can't think of any matches where a DQ has enhanced the match for me.

[landy1987 0]

There's only one "e" in "Judgment."

thats how you Americans spell it. In the Uk (and maybe Australia and somewhere else?) its "Judgement"

http://www.silvervision.co.uk/product.asp?...WWE1079&recno=8

 

So on that.

 

I also have huge doubts that this can touch Eddy/Brock, either.

Yeah, the title of it in the U.S was "Judgment Day" so they are not going to change it. I'm not saying its spelled wrong, in the UK its spelled different as a word (e.g in the dictionary)

 

King of like how you guys spell "color" and we spell it "Colour"

 

Understand?

[Enigma 0]

I only remember this match for Eddie's monster blade job and JBL sucking wind after 10 minutes.

 

Match of the Year? My left nut.

[Guest Loss]

All these replies and only one person has actually addressed the flaws of the work of the match. What did you not like about it? Tell us what portions of the match were good and which were bad and what made them so. This was an honest attempt to discuss a match that I was hoping would end up being a good read all around.

 

If I had a tape to pop in for the sake of this thread, I would. I wish some of you who had the match on tape would do the same.

[Taker666 0]

DQ finish or not, who cares. I really enjoyed the match and I think its one of the best matches of 2004. MOTY? definlly not. one of the best? hell yeah.

 

save for the crappy cruiserweight match. the rest of the card I thought was pretty good.

[SamoaRowe 0]

I saw the match live as it was happening and I was shocked at how into the match I got. However, the match has a few dead points, which I would say is Bradshaw being a bit frazzled that he is main eventing a pay-per-view. The match does have a remarkable drama to it and the DQ finish did not hurt the match at all. I would give it a good ***3/4 (which is higher than I originally gave it).

 

 

Still, I would call their GAB match ****. It had more innovative action, less slow spots, and I felt like JBL carried his load in that match and was not just Eddie carrying him.

[Dark Age 0]

I don't think it was MOTY, but it was definitley close. VERY underrated, very good match. All three JBL/Eddie matches delivered, though I think this was the best one. I will, like Loss said, pop it in and have another of watch of it to give a more detailed opinion on it, but, from what I remember, it was very good.

 

Benoit had a storyline that added to that match?

 

I agree that Benoit/HHH/HBK was MOTY, although it still wasn't ***** like some say. I didn't see the Eddie/JBL match but found Eddie/Brock to be nothing special. I think most say Eddie/Brock is better than it really is because of the emotional aspects of Eddie's title victory.

 

Funny you say that about Eddie/Brock when naming Benoit/Triple H/Shawn as your MOTY (a match that is could also be filed as overrated, due to the fact that Benoit won).

[King Cucaracha 0]

Okay Loss, I'll take up the gauntlet.

 

Well, I would. But Evo pretty much summer up what I was planning to say.

 

Rewatching the match, I have to agree about the opening. Bradshaw the APA guy would never have taken that amount of punishment, bumped that match and for that long for a guy less physically imposing than him. Like Eddie. JBL HAD to sell for Eddie to get over the fact that he was JBL now, not Bradshaw. And he does a damn fine job of it. It's actually quite surprising at how much he really does make Eddie look a threat.

 

I also agree that JBL played a valuable part in the match. Some members of this board would have you believe that Eddie 'carrying' the match means that he 'was' the match, but JBL plays his part well. That's not trying to flame anyone. That's just the way I've seen JBL opinions. Both men make each other look good. JBL makes Eddie look a threat. Eddie makes JBL look a better wrestler.

 

 

However...

 

Eddie's bladejob makes the match.

 

If Eddie hadn't bleed so much or not at all, the match wouldn't have been as memorable as it was. It was a good match without the blood don't get me wrong, but it was made memorable (not neccessarily great, but memorable) by the awesome visuals of Eddie bleeding like very few have in WWE/F rings.

 

Ref bump and DQ ending obviously detract from the match somewhat. But again, it does make it a bad match. In this case, the DQ finish actually made sense.

 

A forgotten match of the year but not MOTY level. As has already been said, the Bullrope Match out-ranks this one. Also, when you say in terms of performance what was better, I'd say Eddie's matches with Malenko in ECW deserve ranking on that list...the match that went to a 30 minute time-limit more than the 2 out of 3 Falls. Obviously, that's not the issue, but whatever.

[Precious Roy 0]

However...

 

Eddie's bladejob makes the match.

 

If Eddie hadn't bleed so much or not at all, the match wouldn't have been as memorable as it was. It was a good match without the blood don't get me wrong, but it was made memorable (not neccessarily great, but memorable) by the awesome visuals of Eddie bleeding like very few have in WWE/F rings.

 

Totally. It was a well worked match with good intensity, solid, **1/2 or ***, whatever, but the blood totally took it over the top and made it memorable for me, especially since I saw it after the fact and knew how bad it really fucked up Eddie, how he went into shock backstage and everything. Take away all that and it's just an average match, no better than dozens and dozens of WWE matches from 04.

[bob_barron 0]

All these replies and only one person has actually addressed the flaws of the work of the match. What did you not like about it? Tell us what portions of the match were good and which were bad and what made them so. This was an honest attempt to discuss a match that I was hoping would end up being a good read all around.

 

If I had a tape to pop in for the sake of this thread, I would. I wish some of you who had the match on tape would do the same.

I tried Loss but I don't really remember that much. I just remember Eddy having to lead JBL during some of the sequences and there were a lot of slow spots that killed it.

 

I also think Eddy's sick bladejob was completely unecessary and instead of me focusing on the match I just thought it was disgusting.

[SuperJerk 0]

Well, there are lots of  people that  dislike Austin/Angle SS '01 because of the DQ finish.

Such as me, for instance.

 

No match with a DQ or run-in finish deserves to be considered MOTY.  Period.

This is bullshit. Of course, a clean finish is always preferred, but think about the best match you've ever seen and imagine it ending in a DQ. Would you then say the match sucked and that none of the good work prior to the finish was any good?

 

No, I wouldn't. That has nothing to do with my point, though.

 

A DQ finish doesn't make the match suck, but erodes it to the point where other matches that were almost as good can overtake it. Each year has enough potential runners up that any of them can easily overtake the actual MOTY if it had hypothetically had a DQ finish.

 

That's because in a good match, the action builds towards a finish. In a match with a DQ, there is no actual finish. Rather, the match is ended abruptly by the referee because of a rules violation. Thus a major component of the match is missing.

 

It'd be like having really great sex, but not climaxing. Sure, it was fun while it lasted, but you feel disappointed afterwards.