The Ultimate Fighter

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

It's Vyce, that's what he does. That's why we love him.

 

They should have worked that fight. Seriously. They needed that fight to be amazing.

[AboveAverage484 0]

Leben had four chances to win the fight and didn't do shit in standup except for land a pretty good knee and was inactive on the ground except for a kimura attempt and a weak omoplata. He deserved to lose.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Both guys were ridiculously one dimensional. Leben was a fucking boxer. His kicks were awful, so he wasn't even a complete stand-up fighter. Koscheck only could do takedowns. Neither guy had jiu jitsu skills. C'MON! This is UFC 1 shit. Royce fucking Gracie. You need to know jiu jitsu if you're going to be a fighter.

[AboveAverage484 0]

Exactly.

 

Everyone is all like well Leben should have won, it should have been a draw.

 

Both of them deserved to lose.

 

That was what was good about draws. Neither one finished the other, so neither deserves to win or lose. With today's breed of fighters I think matches should go the distance, if a winner isn't determined in that time than a 5 minute overtime round commences. That should be enough motivation for someone to attempt to finish the fight: Either you finish him in the overtime round or you get a draw. Pretty simple.

 

I've heard enough bitching about judging in my years of watching MMA that I've just gotten entirely sick of it.

[Guest Deft]

That was so unbelievably lame. I've seen ADCC matches that were 10x as exciting. Here's to a Leben COMEBACK~! on the Apr. 9th show.

 

edit: what was with the spoiling of next week's show? a draw?

[Vyce 0]

All of you need to quit sucking Leben's cock.

If you watched the show, you'd have been sucked in, too. Leben against anyone else would not have garnered as much heat or compassion from anyone, but this was milked. The show set up us wanting to see these two go at it and Koscheck really looked heel here.

 

Quit stirring the damned pot for no reason. Stop sucking Leben's cock? Please. Grow up.

I have watched the show.

 

If anything, I'm a bit disappointed that the worst injury Leben seems to have suffered is the one he gave himself by being a fucking retard.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Yeah, they basically say "The next fight goes to a decision", after they just had a boring fight that went to a decision. Now what are the viewers going to think here? Let's see, the last fight that went to a decision was boring, and the next fight goes to a decision... hmm.. let's not watch next week.

 

I mean, really, the only thing that makes me want to watch is that Forrest fights. And they made him look like a goof in this episode rather than a badass.

[Styles 0]

An interesting question I have: obviously, the show has picked up a number of wrestling fans holding over from RAW who are new to MMA. The last few shows have built them up to a fever pitch "storyline" wise (as a wrestling feud done right), but now that the match itself didn't deliver in execution or result as was hoped for (such is the way for "real" fighting), will this turn off a lot of the new wrestling crowd? Will they just say "aww, this sucked, the guy I liked is gone, and the fights are boring" and stop caring and UFC has jumped the shark just as soon as they "slammed the cage door" as Dave Meltzer likes to say? Or will they understand that this is the nature of the unpredictability of MMA, and will remain hooked and continue to give UFC a huge boost into their upcoming PPV?

[AboveAverage484 0]

Yeah, they basically say "The next fight goes to a decision", after they just had a boring fight that went to a decision. Now what are the viewers going to think here? Let's see, the last fight that went to a decision was boring, and the next fight goes to a decision... hmm.. let's not watch next week.

 

I mean, really, the only thing that makes me want to watch is that Forrest fights. And they made him look like a goof in this episode rather than a badass.

Forrest is really pretty fuckin' good. When you can say your only losses were to Jeremy Horn and Dan Severn and you have wins over reputable fighters such as Braga, Monson, and Sonnen you're pretty damn good.

[Guest Deft]

I don't know about you guys but my desire to watch the show just dropped dramatically. Other than the potential revenge angle with Quarry and Koscheck, it just got a lot less interesting. I'll still watch but I wanted to see Leben smash some cats. Oh well, theres always the hope of seeing Southworth Vitor'd again. Also, apprarently the losers on the show will all fight on the Apr. 9th finale so that will be cool.

[AboveAverage484 0]

An interesting question I have: obviously, the show has picked up a number of wrestling fans holding over from RAW who are new to MMA. The last few shows have built them up to a fever pitch "storyline" wise (as a wrestling feud done right), but now that the match itself didn't deliver in execution or result as was hoped for (such is the way for "real" fighting), will this turn off a lot of the new wrestling crowd? Will they just say "aww, this sucked, the guy I liked is gone, and the fights are boring" and stop caring and UFC has jumped the shark just as soon as they "slammed the cage door" as Dave Meltzer likes to say? Or will they understand that this is the nature of the unpredictability of MMA, and will remain hooked and continue to give UFC a huge boost into their upcoming PPV?

I watched some snooze fests when I started watching MMA (Royce/Shamrock,Severn/Shamrock), but it didn't scare me away because I knew when it was good, it was really good.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I think it hurt them bad. Like, Victory in Vegas bad. They needed an awesome fight, straight up. They could have gone 2.0 if that fight had been awesome, now -if they're lucky- they can get 1.5's (which is successful in terms of a new show on cable, but lower than what they should have been able to get).

 

There is nothing worse than being boring on TV. Even if you are bad, as long as you are interesting you'll find an audience. This is not good.

[Styles 0]

An interesting question I have: obviously, the show has picked up a number of wrestling fans holding over from RAW who are new to MMA. The last few shows have built them up to a fever pitch "storyline" wise (as a wrestling feud done right), but now that the match itself didn't deliver in execution or result as was hoped for (such is the way for "real" fighting), will this turn off a lot of the new wrestling crowd? Will they just say "aww, this sucked, the guy I liked is gone, and the fights are boring" and stop caring and UFC has jumped the shark just as soon as they "slammed the cage door" as Dave Meltzer likes to say? Or will they understand that this is the nature of the unpredictability of MMA, and will remain hooked and continue to give UFC a huge boost into their upcoming PPV?

I watched some snooze fests when I started watching MMA (Royce/Shamrock,Severn/Shamrock), but it didn't scare me away because I knew when it was good, it was really good.

Right, Im just saying UFC is gaining it's largest audience ever through this show of those who know pro wrestling but not MMA, and have gotten into through the very wrestling familiar feuds and storylines but if the matches don't payoff in the same way, will that lose them?

[Just call me Dan 0]

All of you need to quit sucking Leben's cock.

If you watched the show, you'd have been sucked in, too. Leben against anyone else would not have garnered as much heat or compassion from anyone, but this was milked. The show set up us wanting to see these two go at it and Koscheck really looked heel here.

 

Quit stirring the damned pot for no reason. Stop sucking Leben's cock? Please. Grow up.

I have watched the show.

 

If anything, I'm a bit disappointed that the worst injury Leben seems to have suffered is the one he gave himself by being a fucking retard.

The disappointments this show brought were huge. Can't disagree there. In my eyes, Leben looked like a douche for not executing well at all in the fight, (He's been in 19????) and then crying afterwards.

 

Josh looked like just as much of a douche because of his comments and the way he carried himself.

 

I just don't see how you couldn't have rooted for Leben over Koscheck. After the show, not as many of us are still clamoring for the UFC debut of Leben. But were you really that apathetic to the whole situation before you knew what you know after tonight?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

It will. The simply did not deliver. What was expected was a war, what was got was... not a war....when you don't meet customer expectations, you will lose the customer. Of course, WWE does this all the time with their fans, and the fans who watch now have stayed. But the WWE has earned the ability to do that, the UFC hasn't. They're walking on a wire with this show, and they slipped.

[AboveAverage484 0]

An interesting question I have: obviously, the show has picked up a number of wrestling fans holding over from RAW who are new to MMA. The last few shows have built them up to a fever pitch "storyline" wise (as a wrestling feud done right), but now that the match itself didn't deliver in execution or result as was hoped for (such is the way for "real" fighting), will this turn off a lot of the new wrestling crowd? Will they just say "aww, this sucked, the guy I liked is gone, and the fights are boring" and stop caring and UFC has jumped the shark just as soon as they "slammed the cage door" as Dave Meltzer likes to say? Or will they understand that this is the nature of the unpredictability of MMA, and will remain hooked and continue to give UFC a huge boost into their upcoming PPV?

I watched some snooze fests when I started watching MMA (Royce/Shamrock,Severn/Shamrock), but it didn't scare me away because I knew when it was good, it was really good.

Right, Im just saying UFC is gaining it's largest audience ever through this show of those who know pro wrestling but not MMA, and have gotten into through the very wrestling familiar feuds and storylines but if the matches don't payoff in the same way, will that lose them?

If they have any long term interest in MMA at all, they will be back. If they get put off by seeing one boring match, then fuck 'em, I prefer to keep MMA "underground."

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

MMA is real, and with that comes the chance of fights sucking. This fight, kinda sucked. I've seen worse, so I won't put it on those levels, but it certainly was disappointing, as mentioned earlier. However, the UFC could have done some damage control and they didn't. They could have brought in Joe Rogan and Mike Goldberg to call the action. That alone would have made it a little more interesting and had the time fly by a little faster. They could have edited it. Now, that would have pissed some people off, but would it have been worse or better than what they aired? They could have built towards the next episode a little bit better - the controversy thing didn't sell, and giving away the ending of the fight was shit. Just say "Forrest fights next" and build it up on that. If the past few weeks has taught us anything, it's that building fighters is what sells. Hype it up. Forrest was going crazy, this is where he gets to blow off some steam.

[Guest Deft]

Is it safe to say Leben would have won under Pride rules? They tend to reward for trying to finish the fight. Although neither really did, Chris atleast attempted a kimura. Reeks of Ricco/Nog.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

It's tough to say. In this situation, PRIDE would have rewarded the guy they wanted to win. I don't think Leben was aggressive enough to take it - Koscheck initiated most of the exchanges and Leben was playing rather defensively. Neither guy did anything to improve position, Koscheck had more takedowns than Leben did clean strikes. Leben had no guard work at all. Josh would have won it under PRIDE rules, unless they were positioning Leben against Silva or something.

[Guest Deft]

Hah, true enough. Anyways, I was quite impressed with Diego, I'd expect him to do well if not take it. Forrest is a safe bet for LHW although you never know.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Was it Diego who did the nice roll-over on Koscheck??

[Styles 0]

And why aren't these fights 3 rounds anyway? They follow all the other UFC rules down to the weigh ins, judges, etc. you'd think it would be regulation rounds too. But I guess it's just an "exhibition". Not to make excuses because he just looked lethargic both rounds, but you never know if he got a Round 3, Leben could have let out a burst and ended it...oh well...

[Vyce 0]

All of you need to quit sucking Leben's cock.

If you watched the show, you'd have been sucked in, too. Leben against anyone else would not have garnered as much heat or compassion from anyone, but this was milked. The show set up us wanting to see these two go at it and Koscheck really looked heel here.

 

Quit stirring the damned pot for no reason. Stop sucking Leben's cock? Please. Grow up.

I have watched the show.

 

If anything, I'm a bit disappointed that the worst injury Leben seems to have suffered is the one he gave himself by being a fucking retard.

The disappointments this show brought were huge. Can't disagree there. In my eyes, Leben looked like a douche for not executing well at all in the fight, (He's been in 19????) and then crying afterwards.

 

Josh looked like just as much of a douche because of his comments and the way he carried himself.

 

I just don't see how you couldn't have rooted for Leben over Koscheck. After the show, not as many of us are still clamoring for the UFC debut of Leben. But were you really that apathetic to the whole situation before you knew what you know after tonight?

I don't like Leben. I never have, since the beginning of the series. You guys may like the "fratboy" persona, it's a turnoff to me.

 

Or will they understand that this is the nature of the unpredictability of MMA, and will remain hooked and continue to give UFC a huge boost into their upcoming PPV?

 

I'm doubting it.

 

The only reason I even watch this show is because it's done "Real World" style with something of a storyline. I sure as hell wouldn't watch it for the fights, because I've tried to watch MMA, and tried to watch MMA, and TRIED to watch MMA, and frankly I don't have the patience to watch something like 25 matches in order to see one actually GOOD one (I exaggerate a BIT, but honestly, that's what the ratio feels like: tons and tons of boring-ass or mediocre fights, and maybe in the whole mix you get one or two interesting ones). And even then the "good one" may last all of 3 minutes.

[starvenger 0]

It's tough to say. In this situation, PRIDE would have rewarded the guy they wanted to win. I don't think Leben was aggressive enough to take it - Koscheck initiated most of the exchanges and Leben was playing rather defensively. Neither guy did anything to improve position, Koscheck had more takedowns than Leben did clean strikes. Leben had no guard work at all. Josh would have won it under PRIDE rules, unless they were positioning Leben against Silva or something.

The thing with these two is that they knew there was a KO/Tapout bonus, but with Josh taking it to the ground and doing a Severn impression there wasn't much chance of that. Looking back at this match I still think they should have gone to the sudden death period, because neither guy really did anything to merit a win.

 

I don't like Leben. I never have, since the beginning of the series. You guys may like the "fratboy" persona, it's a turnoff to me.

There's a reason I called him Fratboy, and it's because I hated the persona. Still, the storyline progressed such that it was easier to like Leben over Southworth and Koschek, who would probably trash talk after winning paper-rock-scissors.

[Guest Jimmy Saint]

There's a reason I called him Fratboy, and it's because I hated the persona. Still, the storyline progressed such that it was easier to like Leben over Southworth and Koschek, who would probably trash talk after winning paper-rock-scissors.

I tend to look at in that Leben was easier to hate. The guy was a tool, an immature bad loser who was trash talking Koschek and the other middleweights [plus a few light-heavys] from the minute they entered the house. His actions 90% of the time were talking shit and annoying other people. You may find that entertaining and thats what you want from reality shows but its the thing I hate most about them. Whilst Southworth and Koschek are no Saints they look so compered to Leben.

 

 

All he had was a loud abrasive style and a ton of hype which evaporated when he actuallty fought for the first time on the show. His final scenes shown where he is throwing a childish temper tantrum and crying his eyes out summed him up to a tee.

[starvenger 0]

There's a reason I called him Fratboy, and it's because I hated the persona.  Still, the storyline progressed such that it was easier to like Leben over Southworth and Koschek, who would probably trash talk after winning paper-rock-scissors.

I tend to look at in that Leben was easier to hate. The guy was a tool, an immature bad loser who was trash talking Koschek and the other middleweights [plus a few light-heavys] from the minute they entered the house. His actions 90% of the time were talking shit and annoying other people. You may find that entertaining and thats what you want from reality shows but its the thing I hate most about them. Whilst Southworth and Koschek are no Saints they look so compered to Leben.

I dunno, Southworth is looking like he'll make us wish Leben was still around. Koscheck will hopefully be more humble once the adrenaline wears off next ep.

 

The good thing though, is that the likeable guys - Forrest, Mike Swick and Nate Quarry - are still around. We can stop talking about Fratboy now and try and figure out which LHWs are gonna throw down. I figured that if Team Liddell won it'd be Griffin vs Swick, but Team Couture's due for a win so I'll guess it's Alex vs the LHW Guy We Never Hear From And Barely See (I think it's Kenny?).

 

BTW, did anyone miss Willa Ford? Yes, she's hot, but I completely forgot she's on this show, and I guess to me it shows that it's completely unneccessary to have a Hot Chick Host for the challenges...

[Lei Tong 0]

Man, Koscheck is going to get steamrolled by Diego.

 

Also, how sad is it that aside from a single kimura attempt, Karalexis tried harder than Chris off his back?

[starvenger 0]

Also, how sad is it that aside from a single kimura attempt, Karalexis tried harder than Chris off his back?

Actually, considering the opponents, not much at all. Against Diego, Chris would probably have tried harder. He'd be as SOL as Karalexis, but he would've tried harder, because Sanchez is much more dangerous on the ground than Josh was, and Leben's ground game, well, sucks.

[Lei Tong 0]

I don't necessarily see how Leben would've tried harder vs. Diego. Unlike Koscheck, Sanchez brings good G&P to the game as well as submissions, so if anything Leben would've had more to worry about than being active on the ground. Leben's ground game on his back has always been for the most part to wait for a stand-up and then "smash come cats," and that's probably why he's been controlled on the ground in his last 3 fights.

[Guest Fook_Theta]

Forgot this thread was here, oh well.

 

Hated last night. You do not reward someone with a few 'light' punches, two-three knee attempts, two-three take downs, and that was pretty much it. You do not reward someone that was all hyped up, and didn't inititate anything but one solid knee. Might have went for the kimura, but there were so many other chances of doing something he should have went for it more than once.

 

UFC just showed the worst of their organization, they should have kept the fight going till someone clearly won. Hell, maybe they need to start docking points for every ten seconds of non-action. Definitely need to extend the rounds and make them stand up after 15-30 seconds of bullshitting.

 

If I'm watching a 'real' fight, I want to see quick hard wins or a long bout ended with a submission. Shit, Bruce Lee at the worst part of his adult life kicked another guys ass in three minutes, and was so winded and ashamed that is one of the reasons he got into so much better shape. He's had his books out since the 70s on training, and these guys couldn't do anything in 10 minutes? Bullshit.

 

I've been into MMA since the 70s and boxing since the 60s, and this was nothing like where the sport should be in the year 2005. These guys only job is to train their bodies and technique all day long. I was getting more hopeful when I saw the guys playing chess, but so far have yet to see anyone use the simplist strategies of chess in a fight.