The NFL Offseason/Pre-Draft Thread

[MrRant 0]

They should make a rule that if you sit out, your contract is still valid until you actually PLAY the years remaining and that you get no money.

[the pinjockey 0]

IIRC, there is a "Did not report" option available to teams, that pretty much covers that. I am going to have to dig around a little to find it, but the jist of it was a team could stamp a player with that tag, they wouldn't be able to use or trade them during the year, but the contract year will not count.

 

Of course that is pretty much the nuclear option as the player will always be a malcontent for that team, but in the cases of TO (malcontent anyway and only one year into a 7 year deal) or Walker (not financially secure enough to fight this option) it might not be a bad idea.

 

Edit: This was actually the list that Ricky Williams was on last year. Not only does the contract not go forward, the player does not count against the cap for the year either. Link

[Robert 0]

If Walker got injured and released, I wouldn't care. If he broke his fucking neck, I would hope that Rosenhaus then realizes not to influence players to hold out. It's been proven that if your hold out, your playing ability goes down. Your out of shape, and you haven't played since either December/January. For Walker, it's been since January since he's played a real game of football. If you think the Packer's don't care, then take alook at two player's who they could've dumped after a career ending injury.

 

Sterling Sharpe: Went down around week 3 (1994), The Packer's kept him until 1995, when they could've dumped him. We just gave him a new deal, which would cost us a shitload of money.

 

Mark Chamura: The man fucked up his back so badly, he shouldn't of been playing. Injured in late 1998, he played through half of the 99 season, before going on IR. He went on IR the first time, and the Packer's could've dumped him. They didn't because the people of Green Bay LIKED him, and since the people of Green Bay own the team they have influence. They even had the papers written, I even asked Lee Remmel (Packer's historian) and they didn't. Chamura attemptd to play through the 99 season, but went on IR. We were gonna dump him, but we waited until the end of the season. Course, that and the whole sexual assult thing.

 

Call me old, but I grew up in a time where hold outs bad, not good. When the occasional hold-out happened you were gone. Players like Walker, TO, Grady and many others whole hold out can get injured and put Rosenhaus out of a job. It's gonna get to a point where holding out=injury. The NFL put too much power in the players, it should be the team's right to grant a new contract. God, do I miss the old days.

[the pinjockey 0]

I disagree with the idea that the players have too much power. The only real power they have is the holdout and in the end the player always comes back before game time. And honestly, as a fan, if a player is holding out, but everyone knows will be back then I am happy for the player to miss the time. Less contact = less chance of injury. Take Brian Westbrook for example, he missed a mini-camp because he wanted a long term deal, but everyone knew he would sign and be in training camp. In the end, I am happier with that as a fan, because it was a couple less days of injury risk and abuse to his body.

 

The only problem is when the fat boys (OL and DL) or rookies miss time, because linemen always get out of shape if they miss camp (I'm looking at you Corey Simon) and rookies need to learn in a hurry.

 

And to go back to the time when teams handed out contract would be a bigger farce than Rosenhaus' clients holdout-fest.

[the pinjockey 0]

Double post

[Fökai 0]

The Eagles can fine Owens $9,500 a day for missing training camp, and also recoup over a million in signing bonuses for last year and this year.

 

Ha, good move Rosenhaus.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Wolf dealed with Levens (Who got injured right after he signed a new deal.) and Sharpe (Whose career was ended that year.) Walker wears 84 and so did Sharpe, anybody notice anything similar here?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Man you just made Rosenhaus' point for him. If Walker plays this year for $515,000 and breaks his neck in game 3 the Packers don't care. They would pay out his contract for this year and dump him. Then he's fucked. If he gets $4million that's just a wee bit better for him in the long run huh?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

.. and you just made the point for the Packers' organization. Holdouts have historically been detrimental to a player's career, and on top of it all.. Half a million dollars a year is NOT THAT BAD, considering since he signed the damn contract (not to mention that it was frontloaded with bonuses) and decides not to play (I'm not sure about the "Did Not Play" option pinjockey mentioned in this thread, but that might vary from contract to contract as well), Walker will still get paid his money, just for sitting on his ass, all the while demanding a raise. There are much better ways to go about this, Marvin Harrison and Tom Brady being two great examples of guys who went to management, demanded an extension to a contract, but still showed up to work and didn't make their contract some major issue. That helps both the organization and the player look a lot better. What Rosenhaus is advocating, is actually detrimental to the players, since not only does holding out hurt their standing with the organization, but with the fans and the media perception of them as well. And of course, physically, since holding out through training camp and especially beyond can be very dangerous to be rushed back into action.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

It's not like Owens's going to play anyways. I don't see either sides budging on the issue. Walker... well he'll tuck his tail between his legs soon when he realizes Green Bay doesn't care.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Preferably, I'd like for Walker and one of the backup QB's, maybe someone with some potential like Nall or hell maybe even Rodgers (fuck O'Sullivan), or perhaps Bubba Franks since he might be holding out as well, to get traded for some help on the d-line or at safety.

 

With all these unhappy contracts in Green Bay, Thompson would do best by just trading off all these bastards for help on defense.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

I'd do that as well, VX. I'd also try to find a replacement for Grady Jackson. He's too old to be pulling this shit.

[Robert 0]

For Grady we have:

 

Corey Williams

Cullen Jenkins (Played in-place of Jackson was hurt, and showed potential)

Donell Washington (Could just be like what Hunt should've been. Fast, strong, big)

 

If anything, Kampman could gain weight and move him to the inside. Start Popinga, whose supposed to be a nasty fucker just watching him hit people. What disturbs me is the backfield, but Collins is looking really good at training camp. Carrol is just being a basket-case, nice pick Sherman. He's also getting all pissy that he will most likely get benched, for Thomas.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Just so you know, Packers fans, I'm a Bears fan, so I could care less what the Packers do. I only speak in the theoretical sense. Owens won't report if Eagles doesn't acquiesce to his request. Walker has no leverage of any kind, outside employing NFL's most hated superagent. He doesn't have the precedence that would lead Green Bay to believe he could be a long term investment (For all we know he's a flash in pan that looks good because of who's slinging the passes his way).

[Robert 0]

Meh, I don't mind Bear's fans. I just hate the one's who act like complete tools.

 

I got a little question to add discussion:

 

What is the biggest choke by a football team ever?

 

Mine, the Oilers choking away a huge lead, but there some others.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Clearly Denver Broncos and Minnesota Vikings. They are in the dictionary under "chokers". Two years Vikings are considered the best team in the league (1998 and 2000) and both times they fail to reach the Super Bowl. I won't even get into Denver's history. I'll leave that for someone else, preferrably a Denver fan.

[Guest Vitamin X]

I'd say Denver's back to back Super Bowls, the first one over a team that they pulled off a huge upset against, make up for their choking. I think the Bills count more for the biggest chokers in the AFC, and it's hard to forget about the Browns as well, who were the victims of Elway magic twice (or then would it be the Browns D?).

 

Also, last year, didn't you go by the name "The Californian" or something, and were a rabid Chargers fan?

[snuffbox 0]

Yeah, after 1997/8 the Bills officially moved ahead of the Broncos for biggest AFC chokers.

 

But no team is sadder than Minnesota...besides those hilarious '98 and '00 seasons they are also 0-4 in Super Bowls.

[Robert 0]

I got some for ya:

 

In 1989, The Houston Oilers were just on a roll. They beat the crap out of Pittsburgh, and then proceeded to be crushed by the Bengals. Then, they got upseted by the Cleveland Browns, and then met Pttisburgh in the Wild Card. Pittburgh won 16-13 in OT. That's the first time that I saw a team lose to all three division rivals in three weeks.

 

In 2002, the New York Giants blew a huge lead to the 49er's, and proceeded to fuck up a normal field goal. It was blocked, and the QB attempted a pass. It fell incomplete, and it was just a mess.

 

Oh yeah, it was three of them. There was 86, 87, and 89 along with the 1980 AFC Championship fumble against the Raiders. So yeah, the Brown's have never been the same since Elway stopped them three times.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

I'd say Denver's back to back Super Bowls, the first one over a team that they pulled off a huge upset against, make up for their choking. I think the Bills count more for the biggest chokers in the AFC, and it's hard to forget about the Browns as well, who were the victims of Elway magic twice (or then would it be the Browns D?).

 

Also, last year, didn't you go by the name "The Californian" or something, and were a rabid Chargers fan?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, I am alternately known as The Californian. Since I live in San Diego currently, I do root for the Chargers but "rabid" is a bit of an overstatement.

 

It goes like this:

 

1. Bears (Due to me being a native Chicagoan)

2. Raiders (The team I have always dug)

3. Chargers as of 2003 (3/4heartedly though, I only root for them because I work for them and live in the city they represent.)

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

I got some for ya:

 

 

In 2002, the New York Giants blew a huge lead to the 49er's, and proceeded to fuck up a normal field goal. It was blocked, and the QB attempted a pass. It fell incomplete, and it was just a mess.

 

If I recall correctly (considering I didn't see that game firsthand), the referee or something botched a call that pretty much spelled doom for the Giants. I think they get a pass here.

[snuffbox 0]

I got some for ya:

 

 

In 2002, the New York Giants blew a huge lead to the 49er's, and proceeded to fuck up a normal field goal. It was blocked, and the QB attempted a pass. It fell incomplete, and it was just a mess.

 

If I recall correctly (considering I didn't see that game firsthand), the referee or something botched a call that pretty much spelled doom for the Giants. I think they get a pass here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yeah, the call at the end was bullshit...but theres still no excuse for NY even letting SF back into that game. Shit was pretty funny though.

[MrRant 0]

TO to report to camp... but will be "won't be happy" - http://x.go.com/cgi/x.pl?goto=http://sport...-072220&srvc=sz

[the max 0]

It'd be funny if the Eagles told him to not even worry about it. Hell, the only reason he'll be attending camp is so that he won't be fined.

[the pinjockey 0]

They can't afford to do that. If TO is saying he will report and the Eagles turn him away, that gets rid of all the support (about 98% of Eagles fans) the FO has in this dispute. But it would be pretty awesome.

 

TO better be careful though. If he is coming in announcing that he won't be happy and procedes to become a premeditated distraction, I am sure there are all kinds of "conduct detrimental to the team" fines available to slap him with.

[Guest Vitamin X]

I say the Eagles still recoup that half of the signing bonus that they paid Owens because T.O. violated a clause in his contract for not showing up to the mandatory minicamp earlier this year.

 

I'm all for Rosenhaus and his clients getting screwed by the teams nutting up and not letting players pull this shit on them anymore.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Also, honestly the way it feels right now, keeping on reading all these articles and nonsense, it keeps feeling more and more like there's no way the Pack is going to finish anything but last in the NFC North. Here's another article, which confounds me a bit as to what the Green Bay front office is thinking:

No deal might mean no Franks

 

Steve Lawrence - Scout.com

July 23, 2005 at 5:11am ET

Lost amid the considerable hullabaloo over Javon Walker's holdout is the fact tight end Bubba Franks is unsigned, unhappy with negotiations and contemplating his own holdout.

 

Before the start of free agency, the Packers made Franks their transition player, giving him a one-year tender worth $2.095 million - the average of the top-10 highest-paid players at his position. Franks has yet to sign the tender, however, making him a long shot to be on the practice field when training camp convenes next week.

 

Friday was the deadline for other teams to make an offer to Franks. With that deadline past, Franks can only negotiate with the Packers. Those negotiations, however, seem stuck in neutral. Little movement has been made as Franks seeks the security of a long-term contract.

 

"I guess you can never tell until the 11th hour," Franks' agent, Gene Mato, told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel for Saturday's edition. "But unfortunately, it doesn't look like he's going to be there. However, he really wants to be there. To this point, I don't believe the team has stepped up."

 

The rhetoric, if not as venomous, sounds an awful lot like Drew Rosenhaus describing contract talks concerning Walker.

 

Mato, however, wouldn't go as far as to say Franks will definitely be a no-show for the start of training camp.

 

"We have not made that decision as of yet. Bubba's really focused on a long-term deal. Bubba's every intention has been to retire as a Packer."

 

Unless Franks is asking for a monster contract - Mato said the two sides are "very far apart" - the Packers' delay in coming to terms with the tight end is hard to understand. The Packers are pressed tight to the salary cap, but a long-term contract with Franks would give the team significant relief. Even though he hasn't signed the tender, Franks is counting the full $2.095 million against the cap. A long-term deal, however, likely would save the team hundreds of thousands of cap dollars since Franks could be signed to a low first-year base salary and the signing bonus would be spread over the length of the pact.

 

Meanwhile, an argument can be made that the Packers need Franks more than they need Walker. At least in the case of Walker, Donald Driver and Robert Ferguson are quality starters, Antonio Chatman proved a valuable reserve, and the rookies - especially second-rounder Terrence Murphy - look like they can contribute.

 

Behind Franks is a cast of mediocrity. David Martin , who is coming off a season-ending knee injury, has never played up to expectations. Third-stringer Ben Steele is a decent blocker but a liability in the passing game. The others, Sean McHugh , Garrett Cross and Steve Fleming , have never played an NFL down and aren't highly regarded.

 

The Packers rely heavily on the tight end - often using two or three at a time - and if Franks is absent, much of the playbook can be discarded.

 

"Put it this way: I wouldn't draft those players on my fantasy team," Mato said of the players behind Franks on the depth chart.

 

No doubt trying to distance this situation with the one involving Rosenhaus and Walker, Mato said: "I'm not controversial. Bubba's not controversial. We understand the business side of this. In this situation, we don't understand where the team is coming from.

 

"Bubba believes that he has done everything that has been asked of him from a football standpoint to be rewarded with a long-term deal. He played out his rookie contract never asking for an extension and never threatening a holdout even though he has been in three Pro Bowls. He has never complained about lack of receptions. He has always been a team player. Off the field, he has never been in any trouble."

 

Now, I'm on the side of the player here. Slapping Bubba with the transition tag means that they've got him signed to a one-year tender, which actually costs more against the cap, than to sign him to a long-term deal. They don't exactly have anyone else behind Franks to be pulling this kind of crap, either, so why not just sign the damn guy?

 

Seriously, any kind of success this year would surprise me. Favre or no Favre. They have a talented receiving corps and QB obviously, and they've plugged in the holes in the o-line lost with Wahle and Rivera gone, but the defense is extremely thin and all their "impact players" on both sides of the ball (I've been playing way too much NCAA 2006) are threatening to hold out or have been in some kind of serious trouble this offseason (Ahman Green getting arrested, Favre nearly retiring, Walker, Franks, and Grady Jackson holding out). Bears fans have a lot more to look forward to, and in my honest opinion, it looks like it's going to be the Lions and Vikings duking it out for first place... at this point, anyways.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

it looks like it's going to be the Lions and Vikings duking it out for first place... at this point, anyways.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The Lions? You're kidding right? For all the talk of their improvement, all they really have done is add a WR that has not played for a year (as an USC fan I hope he does well though) and a QB that was run out of Cleveland.

[Guest Vitamin X]

The Lions took a high-risk, possible high-reward pick with Mike Williams. They had nothing to lose there, but they were, and still very much are, a very young team with a shitload of potential. And that "QB that was run out of Cleveland" is a former Pro Bowler whose departure, along with Mariucci's and T.O's, took San Francisco from perennial playoff teams to 1-15 (or was it 2-14? I forget. Still pretty pathetic.). Garcia got the shaft in Cleveland, especially playing with that absolutely atrocious team around him, an awful coach who played way too many favorites, and he still did the best he could. Remember, before the Steelers finally did it, the Browns came closest to beating the Eagles at full-strength last year, before falling in overtime in Cleveland. I think Garcia can still be a very, very good QB in the league, especially being reunited with Mariucci, and that's only if Harrington falters (which I expect he will- come on, after all this time, and he hasn't shown more than a flash here and there?).

 

They've had a string of very, very good drafts over the past couple years, and with the great coaching and situation they've got going on over there, not to mention how their schedule, and in particular where they stand in the division, looks, I do see them competing with the Vikes for first with the team finally maturing as a whole. I think it took Mariucci roughly the same amount of time to rebuild the Niners from when they crashed and burned, to get them to a 10-6/11-5 type of team. Probably could've continued getting better if he, Garcia, and Owens hadn't left.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Except Marucci is horribly overrated. We'll agree to disagree though. I don't see them finishing 1st or even 2nd. Hell I see the Packers having a better shot at 2nd than them. Sadly my Bears will finish in the cellar....again.

[Guest Vitamin X]

It says a lot as a diehard cheesehead, when even I'm predicting the Bears finishing ahead of the Packers.

 

The optimistic side of me hopes that I'm just getting a bit Anglesaultish in terms of being negative though, and that it won't be THAT bad. But I just see a lot more promise from the other teams in the division, the conference, hell the whole league, than the Packers.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

VX, I know the Packers are facing a lot of adversity right now with their holdouts/potential holdouts/troubles, but I don't see them finishing worse than 7-9 which could very well be enough for a 2nd place finish. Favre will take them on his back and carry them, as he's done many years now. How did the Packers do when they lost Sterling Sharpe? Mark Chmura? Reggie White? Just fine.