What do you think of Cena as a wrestler?

[Guest Deadbolt]

What do think about Cena's ring skills? I think John Cena is a good wrestler. He's right up there with the top young wrestlers in WWE, imo.

 

We get people jumping on the Randy Orton bandwagon because he was given the World title, but the fact still remains that Orton isn’t all that good in the ring. Cena has been and chances are always will be a better ring performer than Orton.

 

What do you think of him?

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

Orton is the better wrestler, and has produced better matches.

 

Cena's best match was at No Mercy 03 againest Kurt Angle, and has only had a few good matches before and after that(With Undertaker).

 

Orton has much more matches which were very good to great.

[AndrewTS 0]

Cena is very promising, but isn't trying.

 

Orton still sucks, but he's trying.

 

So, right now, based on the matches they're currently producing, Orton is the better wrestler, but I think marks find Cena's matches more entertaining because of his spots.

 

Nobody is going to pop for Orton's restholds.

[Guest Hass of Pain]

I think John Cena gets a seriously bad rap from "smart" wrestling fans as being a poor worker. The guy is a self made star and the most over babyface in the company and much stronger overall package than Randy Orton.

 

The main problem with Smackdown is that there are very few great wrestlers for a guy like John Cena to work on the road with every night to improve his game. Randy Orton didn't get better in the ring until he went on the road against Benoit and Jericho, worked with Mick Foley and Shawn Michaels and did a lot in the ring with Ric Flair and HHH. If John Cena would have had those opportunities, I think he would be at an even higher level than Orton right now and aside from Eddie Guerrero (Who's a face) John Cena has no one at a high level to work with in order to improve in the ring and learn the main event style.

 

People hate on John Cena's matches, but look at who's he's been programmed with for the last year:

 

The Undertaker: Gave Cena no offense and more or less squashed him.

 

Rene Dupree: Extremely green in the ring, without one good singles match in his career that I can recall.

 

Carlito: Charismatic but extremely limited in the ring.

 

Jesus: I believe he spent less than a month in OVW before being called up, and was extremely mediocre in the ring. To make matters even worse, worked injured against Cena as well.

 

Kenzo: Enough said.

 

I don't know how anyone can possibly call Cena a bad worker or say he isn't trying considering he has been programmed with absolutely nothing but dead weight for the last year. You don't send a guy who needs in ring growth on a year long stint wrestling people even more unpolished than he is, and it's really unfair for people to criticize Cena for lack of improvement in the ring when this is what he's working with.

 

I like John Cena. He's mad over with the largely indifferent Smackdown crowd, and h used to be a pretty solid worker as Prototype. Give him some time and hopefully a long program with a healthy Kurt Angle and he'll get there.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

I don't think Orton is as great as some people think he is, but he's better than Cena. Since Cena's rap gimmick became more comedy orientated, he seems to have stopped trying to improve his in-ring talent, and seems content to cheerlead his way through matches with a few signature gimmick spots. That's all well and good for a midcard type, or someone who is super over to begin with, but Cena is neither of those, and he really needs to kick it in gear if he's going to be able to carry Smackdown, and not have business fall even further into the shitter.

 

To make it clear, I'm not calling Cena bad by any means, but he's not great. Right now, he's just ok, but ok can't carry a company.

[KingPK 0]

Cena is incredibly limited in the ring, and shouldn't be counted on to carry the offense in a match. He's MUCH better at selling a shitkicking from the heel and making a comeback (see: Wrestlemania XX).

 

Of course, being put in the ring with guys like Rene Dupree and Kenzo Suzuki will make ANYONE look bad.

[SuperJerk 0]

Hass of Pain's avatar really forces me to take his comments more seriously. (Not that they weren't well reasoned to begin with.)

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Cena's one of my favorites, but even I'll admit he's decent at most in the ring, nothing special.

[clean rob 0]

I don't know how anyone can possibly call Cena a bad worker or say he isn't trying considering he has been programmed with absolutely nothing but dead weight for the last year.

Booker T (who you have forgotten about, apparently) is hardly Benoit, but to call him dead weight would be very harsh...and his matches with Cena were absolutely horrible - the last one might have broken *, but that was it.

 

I think that there is truth in the belief that he isn't trying too hard to improve his in-ring ability. However, the best way to do this is to put him in programs with superior workers, and this is not happening right now - because there isn't anyone suitable.

 

[He] seems content to cheerlead his way through matches with a few signature gimmick spots. That's all well and good for a midcard type, or someone who is super over to begin with, but Cena is neither of those

I'm with Haas Of Pain on this one. Cena IS super over - or as super over as it gets nowadays anyway - and I'd go as far as to say that he is currently the most over face in the company.

Cena is incredibly limited in the ring, and shouldn't be counted on to carry the offense in a match. He's MUCH better at selling a shitkicking from the heel and making a comeback (see: Wrestlemania XX).

Absolutely. He shouldn't be carrying the offense in a match anyway - he's a face! Cena is not a great worker (duh), but he is good at selling a beating and timing his comeback spots. He needs his flaws hiding and his strengths being played to by getting put in simple 80s-Hogan-style matches until he can manage to put on a stronger all-round match, if ever.

[cawthon777 0]

So if the WWE wants Cena to be at that top level, what do they do? Send him to Raw after WrestleMania?

 

... Better yet send him to Raw with the US title, thus taking it away from SD. There's a great way to create brand tension.

[Guest Hass of Pain]

Booker T (who you have forgotten about, apparently) is hardly Benoit, but to call him dead weight would be very harsh...and his matches with Cena were absolutely horrible - the last one might have broken *, but that was it.

I agree with everything you say but this. I think Booker T is incredibly overrated as a worker and once you strip away his two or three awkward looking kicks, he really doesn't have much of anything. Christian couldn't carry Booker to a memorable series of matches either, and he's one of the best in-ring heels in the business. I can't remember the last opponent beneath Booker's level that he has actually made look good, and I think currently he's average at best in the ring. His style clashes with just about everyone too, so I don't think you can hold that failure of a program exclusively over Cena, though he certainly deserves partial blame.

[Jingus 0]

Cena is certainly over and knows how to sell, do comedy, and work his gimmick, but that's about it. His offense consists of mostly just punch-n-stomp, and he never does the F-U the same way twice. (It's a Death Valley Driver! No, it's an inverted Angle Slam! No, it's a Michinoku Driver without the sit-down! No wait, it's a Samoan drop!) Orton does use a lot of rest holds, but that's more holds than Cena ever seems to employ.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

[He] seems content to cheerlead his way through matches with a few signature gimmick spots. That's all well and good for a midcard type, or someone who is super over to begin with, but Cena is neither of those

I'm with Haas Of Pain on this one. Cena IS super over - or as super over as it gets nowadays anyway - and I'd go as far as to say that he is currently the most over face in the company.

Cena is incredibly limited in the ring, and shouldn't be counted on to carry the offense in a match. He's MUCH better at selling a shitkicking from the heel and making a comeback (see: Wrestlemania XX).

Absolutely. He shouldn't be carrying the offense in a match anyway - he's a face! Cena is not a great worker (duh), but he is good at selling a beating and timing his comeback spots. He needs his flaws hiding and his strengths being played to by getting put in simple 80s-Hogan-style matches until he can manage to put on a stronger all-round match, if ever.

Cena isn't super over by any means, and if how over he is as super over as it gets today, then things are really going to sink, because someone who is as over as Cena is isn't over enough to carry a company/brand.

 

As for:

 

He needs his flaws hiding and his strengths being played to by getting put in simple 80s-Hogan-style matches

 

That might be nice for the midcard, but it won't work at the top level. Today's fans aren't going to accept a "simple 80s-Hogan-style match" on top. They've been weaned on hard working good-to-great main events for so long, that something as basic as a formula Hogan match on top just is not going to cut it, no matter how over the wrestler might be.

[Black Lushus 0]

HTO have you always been a mod or did I just never pay attention?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

HTO have you always been a mod or did I just never pay attention?

The stripes are new.

[Black Lushus 0]

oh okay, right on then...

[Jericho2000Mark 0]

Orton and Cena are equally bad in the ring. Orton's only having better matches now because he's working with better wrestlers, just like Cena was having better matches a year ago because he was working with Angle, Eddie, Benoit... The quality of their matches depend on the quality of their opponents...much like Triple H and JBL. Their offense looks like shit(especially their finishers) and neither can be depended on to carry a match.

[Si82 0]

I think Cena is horrible in the ring, I really do.

 

Sure the guy is extremely over but crowd seem to base that on his personality rather than his ring-work. Not that this is unusual in WWE. I mean, guys seem to get over on gimmick alone most of the time and have done for who knows how long now.

 

However, that's not to say I think much of his promo and the like anymore. I used to like him back when he first had his "rapper" gimmick but it all went downhill once he turned babyface. Now it's just the same old "you're gay" disses which are just quite sad.

 

As far as Randy Orton goes I would say is a much better worker in the ring than Cena but, even though he tries, his character pretty much sucks in my opinion. I hate the guy as a bland boring babyface, like Cena, he should go back to his heel persona which he was far superior at portraying.

[King Cucaracha 0]

Their offense looks like shit(especially their finishers) and neither can be depended on to carry a match.

The RKO is better than it was. And they shouldn't be expected to carry a match with limited experience. That's what the experienced workers are there for. To cover their weaknesses. It's not rocket science.

 

For the record, Orton's a better wrestler in my eyes, if only because he's making an effort to become better. He's improved as much as Cena has stayed still in his ability. And he's still one of the best bumpers in the company.

[Jericho2000Mark 0]

Their offense looks like shit(especially their finishers) and neither can be depended on to carry a match.

The RKO is better than it was. And they shouldn't be expected to carry a match with limited experience. That's what the experienced workers are there for. To cover their weaknesses. It's not rocket science.

From what I understand, good workers can carry matches, therefore neither are good workers yet.

[King Cucaracha 0]

Their offense looks like shit(especially their finishers) and neither can be depended on to carry a match.

The RKO is better than it was. And they shouldn't be expected to carry a match with limited experience. That's what the experienced workers are there for. To cover their weaknesses. It's not rocket science.

From what I understand, good workers can carry matches, therefore neither are good workers yet.

It takes more than just a 'good worker'. You need to be a 'smart worker'.

 

Someone like Benoit couldn't carry matches in the early stages of his career, even if he was a good worker, because carrying matches needs the guy carrying to understand pacing and to have the kind of ring instincts you can only get through ring experience.

[claydude14 0]

The RKO is better than it was.

I have to disagree, the RKO looks pretty silly since he turned face. When he was heel it would usually come out of no where, but now he calls for it with his arm raised and goes into it from there, and I just think it looks way over done that way. Plus it seems like when he jumps to hit it that there's a bit too much jump.

[clean rob 0]

Cena isn't super over by any means, and if how over he is as super over as it gets today, then things are really going to sink, because someone who is as over as Cena is isn't over enough to carry a company/brand.

I think we're just going to have to disagree on this. Judging by the crowd reactions I've been seeing him get on Smackdown over the last few months (i.e. really big ones), I can't see how you would think Cena wasn't over huge. As for carrying the brand, why not? It's not like he'll be on his own anyway what with Taker, Angle etc. about.

 

As for:

 

He needs his flaws hiding and his strengths being played to by getting put in simple 80s-Hogan-style matches

 

That might be nice for the midcard, but it won't work at the top level. Today's fans aren't going to accept a "simple 80s-Hogan-style match" on top. They've been weaned on hard working good-to-great main events for so long, that something as basic as a formula Hogan match on top just is not going to cut it, no matter how over the wrestler might be.

I think they'll work just fine for TV main events. For PPVs, a combination of gimmick matches, good opponents and heavy planning would probably cover up Cena's shortcomings successfully (you know, like what they've been doing with JBL). If the crowd shit on them, all it takes is a quick depush back to the midcard.

[The Niggardly King 0]

Wasted potential...

[Precious Roy 0]

boring

[Guest Nater]

Hass of Pain said pretty much everything that needs to be said.

 

If you compare Randy to Cena, you get two young guys that are working in two entirely different environments.

 

Randy has faced Benoit, Jericho, HHH, Batista, Flair and has the rub of all the legends he's "killed"

 

Cena is raising the SD midcard against Kenzo and Dewprix. Saying that he's "self made" is entirely accurate, he's been doing the wrestling schtick before he was in WWE.

 

Talent? IMO both of their finishers have degraded in performance quality every month and keep sliding. Their believability in the ring is suspect to their opponents strengths at selling. For the most part they are even scale but Cena definately makes more out of his opponents.

[Masked Man of Mystery 0]

I might like Cena more if he actually did the Death Valley Driver properly. Right now he's doing a standing fireman's carry, and I'm sorry, I can't buy that as a finisher with his limited offense.

[Guest Korgath]

The problem with the two is that their offense is now generic uber-face set #2. In other words, they've got as many signature moves as The Rock or Hulk Hogan, and not much else.

 

The Rock and Hogan had enough charisma to put forward the same match over and over again and not get boring. At least, for a couple of years. Every Cena match is generic nowadays - You Can't See Me, Pumpin the Sneakers, DVD-wannabe, 1... 2... 3.

 

They should have reserved the BO-RING chants for Cena instead.

[Guest Duncan Eternia]

I think Cena can be decent in the ring, but he is just being booked shitty...which is unfortunate. But it's WWE what else do you expect. I totally agree with his finisher being seriously lacking. But then again I really don't expect him to bust out a 630 splash or anything! Maybe he could get the Burning Hammer or something???

[Sass 0]

Cena is a below average worker who is not very creative with his spots or innovative with his moveset. In fact, he really doesn't have much of a moveset to speak of except for some crowd spot moves (fist drop shuffle) or a hackneyed version of some other move (DVD) that he uses as his finisher.

 

His lack of in-ring ability shows and it makes for an awkward viewing atmosphere when he is forced to wrestle for more then 5 minutes. The problem(s) really do show up in his matches.