Does Batista have staying power?

[justcoz 0]

On the other hand though, Batista has great natural charsima that seems like an extension of himself rather than an act, and the character he plays seems to simply be Dave Batista. That's usually the difference between a guy the fans can really connect with, and a guy like Randy Orton who seems to be playing a character. If the writers keep doing this good of a job with Batista, he'll be insanely over by the time Wrestlemania rolls around and he'll probably go over HHH. Like all great main eventers over the past 10 years, the fans chose Batista instead of WWE, and aside from John Cena that hasn't been the case for many breakout stars in the last year or two.

 

I think that's the key point. Batista has a natural charisma and presence. Audiences were starting to react long before they started the teases between him and HHH. Ring work is important but The Rock wasn't exactly a **** star worker and he's the most successful product the business has ever produced. The same applies to Hogan. Batista has a million dollar look, a character which seems to be an extension of his own personality and enough ability to at least be carried somewhat into good matches. He also seems to be wise to the business and willing to work to get better, despite his age (which may be his only downfall, if this guy was 24, there would be no hesitation to push him to the top).

 

I would have preferred things had they kept Randy Orton heel and had Evolution turn on Batista at that time. They could still possibly turn Orton heel to program with Batista falling his title win. Another option is to bring Brock Lesnar to Raw to feud with Batista. Lesnar could be one hoss that could bring a good match out of Batista. Send HBK (as a heel) to Smackdown to even things out. Just an idea.

 

I could easily see Batista getting a mega push and a good two year reign as their "next big thing" including WWE Film productions, talk show appearances, etc. Seeing Big Dave styling and profiling in a custom made suit on Letterman, Leno or Conan with the World Championship belt isn't exactly the worst scenerio.

 

Although I enjoyed Albert too. Damn he would have made a great old school 80's heel brought in to take out Hogan.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

I would have preferred things had they kept Randy Orton heel and had Evolution turn on Batista at that time. They could still possibly turn Orton heel to program with Batista falling his title win. Another option is to bring Brock Lesnar to Raw to feud with Batista. Lesnar could be one hoss that could bring a good match out of Batista. Send HBK (as a heel) to Smackdown to even things out. Just an idea.

For what it's worth, the original plan was for Orton to win the title at WM, jump to Smackdown and turn heel.

 

Currently, the plan is apparently for Batista to turn before WM, probably at the Rumble or Raw the day after, and Orton to go heel, with him still jumping to Smackdown, and the WM main event being a three-way with Batista, Hunter and Orton.

[CanadianChick 0]

Currently, the plan is apparently for Batista to turn before WM, probably at the Rumble or Raw the day after, and Orton to go heel, with him still jumping to Smackdown, and the WM main event being a three-way with Batista, Hunter and Orton.

Ugh. I would much rather a one-on-one match between Hunter/Batista. Orton isn't needed there at all.

[SuperJerk 0]

I would have preferred things had they kept Randy Orton heel and had Evolution turn on Batista at that time.  They could still possibly turn Orton heel to program with Batista falling his title win.  Another option is to bring Brock Lesnar to Raw to feud with Batista.  Lesnar could be one hoss that could bring a good match out of Batista.  Send HBK (as a heel) to Smackdown to even things out.  Just an idea.

For what it's worth, the original plan was for Orton to win the title at WM, jump to Smackdown and turn heel.

 

Currently, the plan is apparently for Batista to turn before WM, probably at the Rumble or Raw the day after, and Orton to go heel, with him still jumping to Smackdown, and the WM main event being a three-way with Batista, Hunter and Orton.

Apparently with HHH coming on Raw the next night whining about how it took 2 guys to beat him.

[Guest Trivia247]

With Batistia they are showing more Facets of the character personality, they are allowing him to bring out more stuff, like humor and intelligence almost a calmness when he speaks that is a stark contrast to his size. He is not just some Roaring incoherant non mic working Hoss Monster. His range isn't all that limited as one would assume of him.

[Guest sideofpoetry]

I'm not very good at recalling specific moments, but maybe someone will remember when this was.

 

It was some kind of battle royale on Raw... guys were getting eliminated left and right... and then suddenly, everyone was knocked down except for two men, Batista and Kane. At this point, the slow burn turn was either in it's very first stages or not even started at all, so Batista was pure heel. Both stare at each other... and Batista, being fairly over as a midcard heel, roars... and the crowd goes absolutely nuts, biggest pop I had heard in months.

 

I understand that it had alot to do with what was going on that moment ,but my point is, Batista's charisma is practically undeniable. I personally feel he's the most charasmatic hoss (or at least on the same level with Brock) in the past five or six years. People will pay to see Batista, whether to see if a heroic face can take on the huge monster, or to see him intelligently insult their most hated heels, and then beat the crap out of them (or in some cases, beat the crap out of them, and shove flags in their asses).

 

Batista doesn't need to be able to cut a five minute in ring promo, he's just gotta be that guy that can respond well to heels on their long-winded drivel, and he obviously can do that.

 

Batista has the potential to become an absolute success, if he's booked properly. At worst, he's got a good 3-4 month run in him, and even longer if they rotate him and a few guys in and out of the title picture with some frequency (for instance, HHH, Edge, Y2J, and Batista (possibly Benoit and Orton too) keep revolving in and out of feuds with each other).

 

Of course, this is all point if Batista will eventually fall to the Triple H effect. If 'Tista wins at WM just to lose it to Trips at Judgement Day or whatever the next pay-per-view is, color him a mid-carder who gets to brag about how he was champion way back when.

[Guest Korgath]

Batista has the potential to become an absolute success, if he's booked properly. At worst, he's got a good 3-4 month run in him, and even longer if they rotate him and a few guys in and out of the title picture with some frequency (for instance, HHH, Edge, Y2J, and Batista (possibly Benoit and Orton too) keep revolving in and out of feuds with each other).

 

Of course, this is all point if Batista will eventually fall to the Triple H effect. If 'Tista wins at WM just to lose it to Trips at Judgement Day or whatever the next pay-per-view is, color him a mid-carder who gets to brag about how he was champion way back when.

And THAT'S where the "staying power" issue truly lies.

 

Batista will have as much staying power as Trips is willing to give him. Batista will have staying power as long as he remains AGAINST the World Heavyweight Champion.

 

It's times like these that I realise how big a heel HHH truly is. He's so big that the crowd WANTS to see people threaten him. As several people have mentioned earlier, Batista is only big because he's getting in the face of Triple H.

 

I take the fact that Batista was never given an IC title run as proof that somewhere in management, there is a general feeling that pushing Batista as a title holder is a risk. There were many times when he was primed to hold it, but never did. I believe management is NOT sold on Batista as a champion and therefore, does NOT have the staying power some of you think he has.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I wasn't around on-line back in 1995, but was there the same hoopla from people back then with Nash? This is really, really, silly stuff here folks. Diesel was "cool", he had "charisma", he was "big", he got the ladies, he was incredibly limited in the ring, he had a cocky heel foil in HBK... he was not a good champion. Guys like this aren't good champions. Kudos to the WWE for doing such a great job with Batista, but I can't help but feel that wrestling fans are so desperate these days that they'll latch on to anything remotely good and blow it up way beyond what it is.

 

Hogan was a great dramatist and Rock had great timing,but even then Rock couldn't sustain face popularity. Plus Rock had incredible workrate, and Hogan was able to draw sympathy from the crowd even though he was huge physically, _and_ the standards for wrestling were different back then _and_ they fed Hogan huge guy after huge guy that the WWE doesn't have.

[LessonInMachismo 0]

You're willing to say Batista is comparable to Hogan and Austin?-RRR

I am willing to say that it is possible that he will become comparable to Austin or Hogan. Like I said: Given his look, his charisma, his determination, his smartness, his momentum and room to improve in the ring, I think he could be the next breakout star. At least one other echoed my sentiments about Batista not being the one that will ruin his own rise. I think that given a fair chance, what the qualities mentioned above, he can make it.

 

That said, your feelings that fans are latching onto Bat due to desperation is the yin to my yang of some other fans being negative about his push due to cynicism. In the end, all we can do is make educated guesses, and my guess is that Batista has a better chance than anyone right now. If I am proven wrong, then I am proven wrong.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Think about what made Hogan and Austin successful. Actually, I think everyone should think about this. Let's put our heads together and brainstorm.

 

I'll start us off...

 

Hogan was the American Hero.

Austin was the working mans Hero.

 

... Batista is the well-dressed mans hero?

[LessonInMachismo 0]

<<.. Batista is the well-dressed mans hero?>>

 

...with NES game music as his entrance theme?

 

Seriously, I think his ability to kiss ass (the aforementioned smartness) is an important aspect in his rise. It will give him an edge (no pun intended).

[iggymcfly 0]

Will Batista be one of the three top stars in the history of the business and single-handedly bring milions of new fans to Raw? Of course not.

 

However, I don't see why he can't reach the level of Undertaker at his peak, and become a serious draw on his own, even when he doesn't have the title.

 

The way I see it, Batista could have the most successful face title run in the WWE in years. He's like Brock with natural chemistry as a face instead of chemistry as a heel. As long as he's booked fairly well, I think the fans will really be into seeing him retain the title, rather than just wanting to see him beat HHH.

 

When Benoit won the belt, he really didn't have anywhere to go after he won the title because his mic skills didn't allow the fans to get into a main even level feud. Eddie's campy humor seemed to fit a midcard level feud better than the main event, and his title run didn't work all that well either.

 

However, Batista has the chemistry that he could work an interesting storyline with Orton, and he could also do interesting feuds with just about any of the main players from Smackdown. Seeing him as the screwed over champion powering his way through multiple challengers would be entertaining as well.

 

He's not personally a long-term solution to the WWE problems, but he should definitely be a breath of fresh air, and I think that a title run by him would significantly raise the ratings, somewhere between 0.5 and 1.0 in the ratings.

[Toxxic 0]

People who pay attention to stats tell me that it's been AGES since there has been anyone who can 'draw'. Can Batista be the unlikely man to break that? Probably not. But I don't see that there is any reason why he can't be a good champion.

 

The main thing people have highlighted is that he won't be able to sustain momentum unless he's against Triple H. This might be true, but let's think about this - this is Raw. He will ALWAYS be against Triple H, because Triple H is top dog. So I don't think that worry is necessarily applicable.

 

As for his moveset - he's limited, but does he need to change that much? His very character is based on his power, and the fact that he can do his moves to more or less anyone. He's put over as freakishly strong, so theoretically it won't take many moves to crush people. The point is that as he moves into the main event his opponents will either be that bit tougher, or that bit smarter and therefore able to avoid his moves for longer or work out a counter strategy. Despite the relatively small size difference, HHH is not put over as anywhere near as strong as Big Dave. So a title match could see Hunter getting in hit after hit, going after Batista's leg, avoiding the big moves and cheating his ass off, all the time trying to avoid getting taken out. Batista would be perceived as being in danger of losing due to Trip's smartness, but his monster character could be retained due to the fact that when he DOES land a move, it doesn't take many of them to win him the match.

 

His charisma - Anyone remember after Batista took out Goldberg? All of Evolution went on the mic. Flair rambled in a Flair way, Triple H droned on and on, Orton stumbled over his words, and Batista said a few things in a very, VERY natural way. He was the only one who did not seem to be reading from a pre-memorised script. Does charisma mean that he has to make long speeches? Not really, it just means that he has to have a connection with the fans and know when and how to react. His verbal timing is good, his delivery is natural and convincing. In the ring, he is able to play off the fans without playing TO the fans, an important distinction for a non-cookie-cutter face/tweener. See above for when he roared at Kane and people went NUTS. People want to see him crush people, and he knows how to get them in the mood for it.

 

As a champion he may not set the world on fire, but what has the WWE got to lose? It's not like there's an obvious choice instead of him who should be given the push. Jericho won't get the belt again, Benoit didn't succeed that well in the way they booked him before and there's no reason to assume they'd book him differently the next time, if there is one. I see Batista as being, if anything, the opposite of Triple H. A quietly confident face/tweener who's in it for himself but doesn't mind being cheered, although it's not vital to him. Whereas Trips always puts himself over as great, someone steps up to try and prove him wrong and usually fails, Batista is the target for mouthy heel after mouthy heel and this time it's the heels that are defeated.

 

Think of it this way: when was the last time you saw a ring full of heels scatter in terror because the World Champ was on his way down the ramp to stop a beatdown, instead of them piling on him as well and him not making much difference? With Batista, you could get that.

[Guest Loss]

I wasn't around on-line back in 1995, but was there the same hoopla from people back then with Nash?

Yes. I guarantee you that Luger would have had the same support in 1987-88 online as well. The sheets were writing fairly positive things about Nash at that point in time.

[strummer 0]

When Nash turned at Survivor Series 94, he became the stereotypical bland WWF babyface. The crowd didn't want that type of Diesel, they wanted the Diesel that kicked everyone's ass at the Royal Rumble and that looked and talked tough. They didn't want a 7 footer playing a humble, "Down to earth", "Stand up for the common man" wrestler. I'm not saying that he would have done better as champion if had kept his previous persona, but it would have been a little better. They wanted to market him to children like Hogan, which was a terrible business plan.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Batista doesn't need to be able to cut a five minute in ring promo, he's just gotta be that guy that can respond well to heels on their long-winded drivel, and he obviously can do that.

Actually, he will have to be able to cut good, long interviews. WWE top guys, the ones that are given a proper run on top, as Batista surely will be given, have always had to do long interviews, and Batista isn't at that level yet. If he doesn't get to that level fast, before he's finally put in that position, it could be the thing that drags him down. WWE will have to be very careful with how they book Batista if they want to work around that, and, while they can do it, I don't think they will, simply because they have set ideas about how top guy should be handled, regardless of whether it's for the best.

[Guest Brian]

If Batista'sjob is to squash people, always look good, and have other people cut the goods in a promo, then he's just going to end up being carried by everyone else.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

If Batista's job is to squash people, always look good, and have other people cut the goods in a promo, then he's just going to end up being carried by everyone else.

The trouble is, while that makes sense and is how it should be done, WWE are too set in their ways to work around weaknesses like that. Things are done a certain way in WWE, and their mindset is to have people adapt to their thinking, rather than the other way around, regardless if the later is what's best for business.

[Guest INXS]

He's come a long, long way in the ring over the past two years, I don't see him as a top draw but certainly an upper midcarder, sometimes main event spot. The thing to remember is the age factor, with Batista already knocking on a bit (in wrestling terms), hopefully he can avoid injury and make a big impact over the next few years.

[Guest Reservoir_Kitty]

I think that before we assume Batista isn't capable of a 'long-winded' promo, he should probably be given the chance to cut one. Yes, everything he's said up to this point has generally been rather sly/snarky one-liners to HHH or Flair, or even the bit with La Resistance on Monday night. He's a natural in front of the camera, he's not nervous or fidgety, and he doesn't trip over himself.

 

Someone hit the nail on the head when they said that Batista the character was merely an extension of Dave Batista, man about town. That's why he's so naturally charismatic, he doesn't have to try to be this big mean growly guy that only grunts or screams or a simpering ass kisser, pandering to the crowds. When he is mean and growly, the crowd eats it up. He's a big man, and people want to see him wreck his opponents, whether it's La Rez or HHH or Orton.

 

I think that if WWE leaves the character the way it is right now, that Batista would have a successful title run (until HHH's waist feels lonesome) and still have some staying power. The crowds have been warming up to Batista for months, and it's time for WWE to make a new star out of someone before the opportunity is lost.

 

Please WWE, don't drop the ball.

 

Again.

[Black Lushus 0]

*Looks at the Undertaker* age is an issue?

[Jingus 0]

In making a new star, yeah it is. The WWE's leery about paying or pushing anyone new who's much over the age of 30.

[Black Lushus 0]

at this point in time, I really don't think the WWE gives a fuck about such things...if he brings in the cash, he's gonna get the strap regardless of what we think...speaking of which, are there examples of anyone as old as Batista suddenly blowing up in the spotlight?

[Guest Loss]

Looking at past World champs in the company and the age they were upon first winning the title:

 

Hogan was 31.

Savage was 35.

Undertaker was 29.

Bret was 35.

Nash was 35.

Shawn was 31.

Sid was 36.

Austin was 34.

Rock was 26.

Foley was 33.

HHH was 29.

Show was 27.

Angle was 32.

Jericho was 31.

Lesnar was 25.

Goldberg was 36.

Guerrero was 35.

Benoit was 36.

JBL was 36.

Orton was 24.

 

Batista turned 36 this month, which would tie him with Sid, Goldberg, Benoit and JBL as the oldest first-time champ in company history, at least in the modern era, and excluding Vince McMahon's cup of coffee with the belt in 1999.

[Guest Loss]

I should clarify that Flair, who was 42 when he won the '92 Rumble, would be obviously older than Batista, but I didn't include Flair because he had won so many world titles in years prior to that (he was 32 when he won his first NWA World title). I also wasn't sure about Yokozuna's age.

[justcoz 0]

wasn't around on-line back in 1995, but was there the same hoopla from people back then with Nash? This is really, really, silly stuff here folks. Diesel was "cool", he had "charisma", he was "big", he got the ladies, he was incredibly limited in the ring, he had a cocky heel foil in HBK... he was not a good champion. Guys like this aren't good champions. Kudos to the WWE for doing such a great job with Batista, but I can't help but feel that wrestling fans are so desperate these days that they'll latch on to anything remotely good and blow it up way beyond what it is.

 

Hogan was a great dramatist and Rock had great timing,but even then Rock couldn't sustain face popularity. Plus Rock had incredible workrate, and Hogan was able to draw sympathy from the crowd even though he was huge physically

 

When Nash turned at Survivor Series 94, he became the stereotypical bland WWF babyface. The crowd didn't want that type of Diesel, they wanted the Diesel that kicked everyone's ass at the Royal Rumble and that looked and talked tough. They didn't want a 7 footer playing a humble, "Down to earth", "Stand up for the common man" wrestler. I'm not saying that he would have done better as champion if had kept his previous persona, but it would have been a little better. They wanted to market him to children like Hogan, which was a terrible business plan.

 

Right, Nash was over initially because he displayed a ton of attitude as a big man heel. They took that and tried to recreate Hulk Hogan, all the way down to him winning the championship at an MSG house show in record time against Bob Backlund. His title reign was a failure on many levels, partly due to them neutering his character, stripping him of the attitude that got him over initially, plus it's hard to draw as champion when you are programmed against King Mabel.

 

By the time the WWF realized how wrong they went with Diesel (probably due to the Clique's influence on McMahon at the time) and Nash cut his "they had me kissing babies" promo directed towards Vince McMahon on Raw (the first time any talent really acknowledged Vince being more than an announcer) he was practically on his way to WCW. He was finally getting over again as the arrogant heel. They let him show his personality on commentary, etc. And his "overness" was a huge reason the Outsiders and NWO worked out as well as they did in WCW.

 

It's a classic example of WWE screwing up with their over-heels turning babyface. They take away the attitude that made crowds react to them in the first place. Randy Orton is the latest example. He was over because he was cocky and the Legend Killer shtick was entertaining. Now he's bland. They never got babyface Shawn Michaels right, to the point that he was booed as a face. Compare The Rock's heel runs to his babyface runs in entertainment value. Brock Lesnar went from being a monster to an oversized Bob Backlund. Kurt Angle became Captain America. Shelton Benjamin became the token smiling black guy that overcame the odds. Jericho shaves his facial hair and resorts to catchphrases for a crowd reaction. Eddie Guerrerro doesn't lie, cheat and steal quite as much anymore. And can any more be said about how lame John Cena is now as a face?

 

Keep Batista as he is - how people are reacting to him - and he'll be fine.

[Guest Loss]

Another problem with Diesel was that they should have waited another 6-12 months to put the belt on him. He just wasn't built up enough for the title win to mean what it should have.

 

Another thing, though -- people blame Diesel having to work against Mabel for being a poor draw but his first three opponents right out of the gate were Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels and Sid Vicious.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

I should clarify that Flair, who was 42 when he won the '92 Rumble, would be obviously older than Batista, but I didn't include Flair because he had won so many world titles in years prior to that (he was 32 when he won his first NWA World title). I also wasn't sure about Yokozuna's age.

How about Slaughter, Warrior & Andre?

 

Two problems with Diesel being champ.

 

1) They turned him into the lame baby-kissing face for his title run. The exact same thing happened to Lex Luger in 93.

2) Nash never seemed as threatening as Batista. He won, but he didn't look especially intense doing it.

 

Batista is more like Goldberg than Nash.

[Sass 0]

As long as Batista is booked well, he'll have staying power. Once he admits to taking steroids, turns against the WWE and joins Vince, or goes off to make movies is when his staying power will diminish.

 

Good booking = results people will pay for.

[jester 0]

I don't buy this idea that main eventers need to be able to cut 20 minute promos. I know WWE believes it, but I think it's something they have to get away from.

 

They might as well start the new trend with Batista. He just goes and says what he needs to, that's it. That's different and refreshing. Fans will like him just for getting to the fucking point.