Lawyer Milloy and NFL Moneyball

[Guest Vitamin X]

I know that we've sort of talked about this in the NFL threads, but I felt like this article was worth mentioning to start this discussion.

 

Much more than money

Peter King, SI.com

 

Lawyer Milloy looks like such a fool today.

 

Remember when Milloy, the former New England safety now playing for the Bills, told Boston radio station WEEI how the Patriots had such a good thing going with players hypnotically following Bill Belichick like he was Jim Jones, taking less money to stay in New England instead of making bigger paydays elsewhere? "Some of those guys, I think, are underpaid," Milloy said. "It's always been a team thing getting thrown around there, but if some of those guys would test the market, being a champion, they could really go out there and make top dollar. But for some reason, they want to stay.''

 

For some reason, they want to stay.

 

That Milloyism is why so many people are turned off to pro sports today. And the New England Patriots' clear rejection of that Milloyism is why so many people from Bangor to Bakersfield -- not just in greater Boston -- love this team right now. The Patriots win, and they win right. Milloy's inference is clear: He is happier being on a team hovering around .500 making more money than he would be on a team winning two straight Super Bowls and making, say, 30 percent less. That is nothing to be embarrassed about. In fact, many athletes would do it, and do it every day. But here's where Milloy's a fool: By mocking his teammates for staying, he's saying that the right way to go about your business is my way, and my way is taking the money, not the Super Bowls.

 

"You can't feed your families off of Super Bowl rings,'' Milloy said. "The more they focus on, 'We don't have any stars' and all that, the more you get overlooked as far as individual accolades and contracts.''

 

In the last two years, since signing a four-year, $15-million contract with Buffalo, Milloy has made $9.75 million in total. Had he stayed with the Patriots and taken a pay cut, he'd have earned maybe $6.5 million in these two years -- plus, of course, playoff money, and whatever additional money he'd have made in appearances and endorsements by being a three-time Super Bowl winner. Just guessing, but I'd put that extra income at $750,000 over two years. So Milloy, by playing in Buffalo, by my math, has earned $2.5 million more than he'd have made by staying in New England.

 

Which would you rather do: Make $9.75 million by being on a 15-17 team or make $7.25 million by being on a 34-4 team, with two Super Bowl wins and the pride and exultations that comes with being a key player on the best football team on the planet?

 

Tedy Bruschi could have had a similar choice this offseason. But last spring, he negotiated his own deal with the Patriots, a four-year, $8.1-million deal, to stay in New England through 2007. I asked him if, knowing what he knew now -- that he'd have made maybe double that on the open market had he played his contract out -- whether he sometimes thinks he made the wrong decision by signing, or whether he thinks he did the right thing.

 

"Both,'' he said. His honesty surprised me. "I'd be lying if I told you I didn't think about what I could make in free agency after this season. I still think about it. But I love being on this team. I wanted to stay. And I'm happy I'm staying.''

 

Bruschi will go down in Boston sports history as a big-game player for a championship team, maybe even a sports legend like a John Havlicek. Milloy will go down as a good player who, in the end, chose money over the prospect of more Super Bowls. To each his own. If I ran a team, you can guess which one I'd want as my defensive captain.

 

My distaste for guys like Milloy piss me the fuck off. Packer fans will remember 1998 and 1999 for guys like Dorsey Levens and Antonio Freeman quite well for similar reasons. What happened? Levens, after having one fantastic season in 1997 which helped the Pack reach their second straight Super Bowl, decided he needed a larger contract, held out all through training camp, and preseason, and broke his leg in the first or second game of the season, leaving us to depend on Raymont Harris to be the leading rusher on a Super Bowl contender. The lack of a running game forced Favre to throw to Freeman, who had a breakout year of his own, and in the following offseason, pulled the exact same stunt as Levens, and endured the exact same fate of getting a crucial injury early in the season and being a nonfactor through most of it. This, combined with Ray Rhodes as head coach (what the fuck were you thinking Ron Wolf?), led to Green Bay's closest thing to a non-winning season and their first playoff miss since `92. It wasn't until Ahman Green and Mike Sherman came along the following year that the ship got righted (somewhat).

 

Loyalty is a fleeting thing in this time of free agency and big money contracts. That's one thing I loathe about the salary cap era, but I was convinced that if a team won consistently enough, the loyalty would come from within the organization and that guys wouldn't give a shit about more money if they could stay on board with a winning franchise and continue to live the glory. This is a big reason why I've had a lot of respect for guys like Favre, Butler, and even Gilbert Brown who had ate his way out of football but came back at a reduced price just to play with Green Bay. Since the Pack's lost its loyalty touch, and seemingly gave it to New England, I've got a lot of respect for the Patriots and their players as well who are doing the same things for the same reasons.

 

As a sidenote, Levens and Freeman both defecting to Philadelphia after their sendoff from Green Bay obviously only added to my further dislike of the Eagles.

[The Czech Republic 0]

Yeah good article but I don't think Tedy Bruschi = John Havlicek?

[Precious Roy 0]

I loved Milloy as a player, and I was bummed when he left, but based on shit like this it was probably for the best. The highlight of his post-Patriots career is going to be that blowout season opener win the Bills had, which ammounted to jack and shit. If he can live with that then more power to him.

[Vern Gagne 0]

That probably means adios Ty Law. NE proved they can win without him and the lineup, and he's due to make like 10 million next year.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

It's nice and all for athletes to take less money to stay with a championship team. We applaud their loyalty and sportswriters gush about how they understand the "true values" of the game. You can stay in New England, and take less money. But do you know what happens when your skills fail you? BOOM. Cut. You think the New England Patriots will maintain loyalty to a hard-working player even though his skills are eroding? Fuck no. Loyalty and championships are nice, but I don't expect players to show it when owners do not.

[Guest Ether]

Loyalty is a fleeting thing in this time of free agency and big money contracts. That's one thing I loathe about the salary cap era

 

It's not like it's running rampant in the non-cap sports such as baseball.

 

It's nice and all for athletes to take less money to stay with a championship team. We applaud their loyalty and sportswriters gush about how they understand the "true values" of the game. You can stay in New England, and take less money. But do you know what happens when your skills fail you? BOOM. Cut. You think the New England Patriots will maintain loyalty to a hard-working player even though his skills are eroding? Fuck no. Loyalty and championships are nice, but I don't expect players to show it when owners do not.

 

I would say this mostly true. I wonder how many NFL teams would do or already do what the Steelers did with Jerome Bettis, which was redo the contract to match his salary to correspond with what was going to be a reduced role that was matching his reduced skills. (ie make him a backup used in specialized situations and pay him accordingly)

 

I think the point Vitamin X is making is players who are or would be making great money on championship teams leaving those teams for even more money to play on mediocre, or in some cases, lousy teams. Look at Dexter Jackson, who left the Super Champ Tampa Bay Bucs (who, granted have stunk the last 2 years, maybe he did know something), almost signed with the Steelers (just came off something like a 10-6 season) but then bolted for the worst franchise in football, the Arizona Cardinals (can't remember if Arizona offered slightly more or a shitload more). It's hard not to look greedy when a player does something like that - remember, most people will probably come no where close to making 7 million in their entire lifetimes, let alone over three years.

[Crimson Platypus 0]

Yeah that was real nice of the Steelers to rework Bettis' contract to fit being a backup and then give him tons of carries.

 

 

I think that people are missing the key words in this:

 

It's always been a team thing getting thrown around there, but if some of those guys would test the market, being a champion, they could really go out there and make top dollar.

 

I think that he is saying that after winning a Super Bowl you should then get paid. Like alkeiper said, the Patriots will be just as quick to dump a player who's skills are on the decline as that same player would be to jump to a team that is willing to pay him top dollar while he can still play at 100%.

[C Dubya 04 0]

I think that currently there is a lot of backlash on players who go for more money, but honestly if you put yourself in there shoes, what would you do? Milloy had a ring already and put himself in a position that his children will not have to worry about money for the rest of their lives. That's his choice to do and I really can't say that I wouldn't have done the same.

[Crimson Platypus 0]

The bullshit "feeding my family" crap needs to stop. If a two income family making $60,000 a year can live comfortably (with proper budgeting anyway) then these assholes making $7MILLION need to shut the fuck up about feeding their families. Here is an idea, don't spend your money like it's going out of style and you won't have a problem. With intelligent spending, a person making $7 million a year should only need about a 5 year career to have him, his wife, his baby momma, and his 7 kids set for life.

[Slayer 0]

The bullshit "feeding my family" crap needs to stop.

 

"You don't know how hard it is..."

[Guest Ether]

Yeah that was real nice of the Steelers to rework Bettis' contract to fit being a backup and then give him tons of carries.

 

It probably wouldn't have happened if Duce Staley didn't get hurt.

 

Anyways back to the thread...

 

I think that currently there is a lot of backlash on players who go for more money, but honestly if you put yourself in there shoes, what would you do? Milloy had a ring already and put himself in a position that his children will not have to worry about money for the rest of their lives. That's his choice to do and I really can't say that I wouldn't have done the same.

 

Platypus beat me to the post, but you're not going to convince the average person of that. My mother making $25,000 a year thinks school teachers making $60,000 are greedy for going on strike. What do you think most people, who are like her, are going to think when someone essentially says "I can't live off $7 million, I need $10 million"?

 

As far as doing the same, I've been a somewhat similar situation. Not with millions of dollars of course, but I could have easily left my job to work for another store that would pay an extra $20,000 to $30,000 a year, plus a few thousand as a sign-on. But that would mean leaving a store that, so far, has been loyal to me, and has me in a fairly good situation (decent pace,patients know me, good coworkers, management leaves me alone, etc) and going to some hell-hole where the opposite is true.

[Crimson Platypus 0]

Oh and to answer the question posed above, I'd HAPPILY take a pay cut to pay for a winner. Without a second thought.

[Guest Smell the ratings!!!]

if I was making 7 mil a year, I'd play one year and retire. Fuck that shit.

[Ripper 0]

Blahblahblahblahblah.

 

 

These people DESTROY their bodies for a living. They reach the pinnicle of their sport. he is right that it is smart to go for the cash, especially in the NFL when they will drop you in a minute and you don't know if or when your next paycheck is coming. He said AFTER winning the big one, and I couldn't agree more.

 

Say if you had been at your job for 2 years...a job that had a tendacy to fire people without notice, but you had been there for 2 years and they paid you really well, would you be stupid/disloyal for leaving that job for another higher paying job? People always try to separate sports from real life, but at the end of the day they are one in the same. These people have to feed their families, and don't give me this crap about "but they are making X-Million dollars" If I gave you 10 million dollars and then someone else offered you 20 millon on top of it you aren't gonna say "You know what...I am cool with the 10 million...thanks."

 

Once a player gets a ring, it is very understandable for them to go out and look to make their career as profitable as possible and thats what they should do.

[bob_barron 0]

If I had the chance to win more titles and play on an elite team I would take the elite team over the team offering more money no questions asked

[Guest Vitamin X]

Say if you had been at your job for 2 years...a job that had a tendacy to fire people without notice, but you had been there for 2 years and they paid you really well, would you be stupid/disloyal for leaving that job for another higher paying job? People always try to separate sports from real life, but at the end of the day they are one in the same. These people have to feed their families, and don't give me this crap about "but they are making X-Million dollars" If I gave you 10 million dollars and then someone else offered you 20 millon on top of it you aren't gonna say "You know what...I am cool with the 10 million...thanks.

If the difference is playing with the New England Patriots as opposed to playing with the Arizona Cardinals, then absolutely.

 

Remember kids, big contracts in the NFL can kill a team with the salary cap, and it's a point to remember when discussing how "quickly" a team will just drop someone. Why do you think San Diego is having such a difficult decision at the moment with Rivers and Brees, one with a big contract who was supposed to be their future, and another who proved that the other was expendable by playing at a Pro Bowl level.

 

Once a player gets a ring, it is very understandable for them to go out and look to make their career as profitable as possible and thats what they should do.

At the risk of losing their image? I'd say Jerry Rice's career has lost some of its luster ever since he left San Fran, and I can't think to remember how ridiculous he looks playing with the Seahawks as a #3 receiver, considering this guy was the BEST of the best. Ronnie Lott lost some respect by going to the Raiders as well. Of course, the players don't seem to care about that, and seem to care more about themselves than most clubs.

 

I'm also pretty sure the cases of a player bitching about his salary and leaving for big money far outweigh the cases of franchise cutting a player loyal to the organization because of declining skills. Hell, the Niners were willing to pay Rice to retire with them, to leave his legacy with them and them alone, but he didn't want to accept the role he was given in San Fran, and moved on to do the exact same one in Oakland and a lower one in Seattle.

[Ripper 0]

If I had the chance to win more titles and play on an elite team I would take the elite team over the team offering more money no questions asked

which is easy to say when you aren't soaking in a tub of ice everyday to get rid of the painful injuries that you have in your body.

 

I liken statements like these to people saying what they would do if they were ever jumped by 8 guys. "I would spin kick the first one, then I would kick the other in his nuts and knee him the face and then...." and let anything like it happen and they scream and curl up in fetal position.

 

I mean people always think of athletics like they show up once a week, perform and go home, and when the season is over sit around until training camp starts, but thats not the case. If you were living the rigorous life of pain, lack of sleep, being away from family and working year round to stay in shape, I guarentee that once you got that championship that you were seeking, a large percentage of you would start to look to your future and your security.

[bob_barron 0]

I see what you're saying Ripper but Lawyer Milloy would seem to be very well off if he played for the Pats or the Bills. By playing for the Bills, he can be more wealthy.

 

If I was in the position where I would be well off no matter where I played, I would try and play for a team that had the best chance at winning a title

[Guest Vitamin X]

Also, it may not be much but Super Bowl champs also get a bit of a bonus, in addition to their bonus for winning the NFC and AFC Championships. This is in addition to the bonus they receive for playing in the Pro Bowl, which I think Lawyer Milloy has.

 

You could always sell off a Super Bowl ring for a decent price too, if you're THAT desperate for extra cash that the 4 mill you make a year just won't be enough to pay your water bills for the extra 3 jacuzzis in your crib.

[MARTYEWR 0]

Remember kids, big contracts in the NFL can kill a team with the salary cap, and it's a point to remember when discussing how "quickly" a team will just drop someone. Why do you think San Diego is having such a difficult decision at the moment with Rivers and Brees, one with a big contract who was supposed to be their future, and another who proved that the other was expendable by playing at a Pro Bowl level.

For what it's worth, Chris Mortenson of ESPN mentioned earlier in the season that San Diego has a lot of cap room, so Rivers/Brees isn't as big a deal as it might be for some teams. They could very well keep both.

[Guest Vitamin X]

It still seemed pretty pointless to have ever bothered drafting Rivers. No wonder the Mannings wanted nothing to do with San Diego.

[2GOLD 0]

I'm fine with players leaving, just don't use the bull excuse of, "I need to feed my family". That's a damn insult to people who are actually STRUGGLING to feed their families.

 

They're rich, this isn't about much more than wanting to be RICHER.

 

They want to go, fine then go. No problem with that. But stop with the bull about "slave wages" and "feed my family". There are about a million people who would take the league minimum and soak in a tub of ice all day than be the guy who lugs heavy crap all day and can't afford to go to the tub of ice cause they have a second job to pay the light bill. Those same people barely see their families for five minutes and are in constant pain so telling them you need an extra million or two to feed your family is bull to the max.

 

Be honest, you wanted the money. Don't expand on it, don't add stupid phrases on the end about being underpaid or something like that.

[2GOLD 0]

Remember kids, big contracts in the NFL can kill a team with the salary cap, and it's a point to remember when discussing how "quickly" a team will just drop someone. Why do you think San Diego is having such a difficult decision at the moment with Rivers and Brees, one with a big contract who was supposed to be their future, and another who proved that the other was expendable by playing at a Pro Bowl level.

For what it's worth, Chris Mortenson of ESPN mentioned earlier in the season that San Diego has a lot of cap room, so Rivers/Brees isn't as big a deal as it might be for some teams. They could very well keep both.

 

That's not going to happen.

Drew Brees isn't Jon Kitna, he's not going to just sit there when a couple of teams are looking at him to be their quarterback.

 

They have to pick, Rivers or Brees. Cause neither is going to accept just sitting on the bench.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

A few extra points...

 

One, its easy to say in retrospect that a player signed for money over playing for a winner. But we don't always know what teams will win. For example, who thought that Pudge Rodriguez was going to earn a World Series ring after signing with the Marlins?

 

Second, this deal of $10 Million not being much more than $7 Million might have validity, but its a matter of perspective. To those living in the third world, $30,000 seems like a gold mine, and they couldn't possibly understand why we'd want $45 grand. People tend to live and spend according to their means, and people tend to attempt to earn the most money possible, as their ability provides.

 

Third, we forget that those of us in our office jobs can work until we are 65, or older. Most athletes are finished before the age of 35. After that, no more millions. They work in a job that requires them to make their life's worth now.

[Crimson Platypus 0]

Nothing you could ever say can convince me that $70 million ($7mill x 10 year career if lucky) isn't enough. Nothing.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Nothing you could ever say can convince me that $70 million ($7mill x 10 year career if lucky) isn't enough. Nothing.

You're correct. I will not ever convince you. But I would like to point out that very few athletes complain about not making enough money.

[Hektik 0]

It still seemed pretty pointless to have ever bothered drafting Rivers.

Drew Brees did have a good season this year, but he needs to do it again to really prove himself. This past year could have been fluke or it could have been his breakout year. There are many scouts who think that Philip Rivers will go on to be a much better QB than Drew Brees. The Chargers won't make a decision this year, they will give the job to Brees and tell him to do it again.

 

No wonder the Mannings wanted nothing to do with San Diego.

No, I still think it was because he and daddy were jackasses.

[Dr. Tom 0]

I guarentee that once you got that championship that you were seeking, a large percentage of you would start to look to your future and your security.

I would. Hell, depending on your position, your average career length in the NFL might only be four years and change. Winning championships is nice, and no one wants to be a part of a consistent losing team, but when you only have 5-10 good years to make your money, you have to make what you can.

 

Show me the money.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

On a separate note, I would speculate that all athletes signing solely for the purpose of winning would be the worst event possible for sports. Bad teams could never get better, as all the free agents gravitated towards good teams. You'd never see parity.

[Crimson Platypus 0]

Nothing you could ever say can convince me that $70 million ($7mill x 10 year career if lucky) isn't enough.  Nothing.

You're correct. I will not ever convince you. But I would like to point out that very few athletes complain about not making enough money.

Which is exactly why it is so absurd when one does complain about it.