Roger Maris is NOT a Hall of Famer

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Listening to ESPN Radio this morning, I had to listen to Mike Greenberg bitch about how Roger Maris should be in the Hall of Fame because he's got the most single season home runs of any player "not under suspicion." Greenberg cited the fact that Maris is one of only two players with back-to-back MVP awards who has not been inducted into the Hall (Dale Murphy is the other).

 

Let me point out a clause in the Hall of Fame voting guidelines...

 

6. Automatic Elections — No automatic elections based on performances such as a batting average of .400 or more for one (1) year, pitching a perfect game or similar outstanding achievement shall be permitted.

 

Clearly, the Hall does not intend for holding the single season home run record to punch an automatic ticket to Cooperstown.

 

Now, it is true that of 21 eligible players who have won two MVPs, 19 are in the Hall. This is a popular use of the group argument, that a player deserves the Hall because he meets the HOF standards of current inductees. However, note that this group is defined by minimum standards, but no maximums. Of those 21 players, 7 won MORE than two MVPS. They hardly fit in with Maris's group.

 

Along with the 21 players who have won two or more MVPs, four non-eligible players (Ripkin, Bonds, Thomas, Juan Gonzalez) have also won two or more MVPs, for a total of 25. I ranked the 25 players by their career win shares. Maris ranks 24th, ahead of only Roy Campanella. Maris is clearly not Campanella.

 

Now, outside of Maris' two MVP seasons, he holds no Hall of Fame qualifications whatsoever. Maris holds a .260 career batting average, .345 On Base Percentage, and .476 career slugging percentage. None of those marks ranks within the top 100. If Maris had a long career, we could overlook these things, but Maris had an awfully short career (1,463 game). Maris is not in the top 100 in ANY category, and according to Bill James' HOF Standards test, Maris only meets 22%. That mark ranks 590th among MLB players.

 

Taking a look at Maris' most similar players, we get a list of Jeromy Burnitz, Bob Allison, Hank Sauer, Jay Buhner, Jesse Barfield, Dean Palmer, Tony Armas Sr., Eric Davis, Reggie Sanders, and Danny Tartabull. Now, I do not see many people jumping on the Burnitz for the Hall bandwagon, and none of the rest have anything resembling a HOF case.

 

Now for the home run title. 61 home runs is a nice feat. When Mark McGwire hit 70 home runs, and Barry Bonds hit 73, they were the best hitters in baseball. When Maris hit 61 home runs, he ranked 4th in slugging, 5th in OPS, and did not crack the top ten in OBP. Hitting a lot of home runs is good, but what else did Maris do to put runs on the board? Not a lot. He was not the best player in the league, even when he did win both MVPs. Maris benefitted from the RBI mentality of sportswriters, along with the idea that handing Mantle an MVP every year gets boring after awhile. I hardly see a compelling reason to put Maris in the Hall.

[Slayer 0]

Like it or not, he probably will ride 61 all the way to the hall

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

I'm sure someday he might be elected. But realistically, he's never come close. His best effort with the writers was his last year of eligibility, when he still fell 137 votes shy of election. I won't weep if he gets inducted, but it bugs me when idiot broadcasters throw out nonsense to try and get their childhood favorites in the Hall.

[Dr. Tom 0]

Ripken, goddamnit.

[CanadianChris 0]

Wow, I didn't even know this was an issue. Maris is so obviously not a Hall of Famer that it really doesn't even merit a discussion.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

I think the 61 homers and the fact that he was a Yankee while doing it will get him several votes.

[geniusMoment 0]

Maris is not even close to being hall worthy, but then again I have been told my standards are re-god damn-diculous.

[iggymcfly 0]

Well, he's been retired for what, 40 years? If he's not in now, I'd say it's really not all that likely that he'll be inducted anytime soon.

[strummer 0]

Long time listeners of M & M know that Greenberg knows ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about baseball. He's an NBA/NFL guy who is "forced" to talk about baseball.

[MrRant 0]

Ripken, goddamnit.

One day... Dr. Tom's kid will spell Ripken with an i and Tom will lose it.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

Long time listeners of M & M know that Greenberg knows ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about baseball.  He's an NBA/NFL guy who is "forced" to talk about baseball.

I think you're pushing it saying he knows much about the NFL as well.

[B. Brian Brunzell 0]

I knew there was a reason I quit listening to the Mike & Mike Show.

[JHawk 0]

I've heard stupider remarks.

 

Cleveland broadcaster Bruce Drennan once claimed that Nolan Ryan shouldn't have been in the HOF because he lost 292 games. Somehow 324 wins, 5,714 strikeouts, and seven no-hitters meant nothing.

 

So it's not like this guy is the only person in the media who doesn't know baseball.

[CanadianChris 0]

I've heard stupider remarks.

 

Cleveland broadcaster Bruce Drennan once claimed that Nolan Ryan shouldn't have been in the HOF because he lost 292 games. Somehow 324 wins, 5,714 strikeouts, and seven no-hitters meant nothing.

 

So it's not like this guy is the only person in the media who doesn't know baseball.

Riiiight. How'd that Cy Young fellow get in, either? 313 losses! What a bum.

[Styles 0]

I agree he is not a sure HOF, but based on his accomplishments I'd say he's at least borderline and wouldn't mind him being voted in. After watching 61* I developed a real respect for the guy after watching the shit he had to deal with. Kind of a sad figure, so it wouldn't kill me to give his family a happy moment if he is inducted at some point...

[HarleyQuinn 0]

Maris never topped 39 HR's in any other season beside the 61... and he only had three 100 RBI seasons in 12 seasons if you want to go down that route. Screw the poor life and sentimentality stuff, the guy doesn't even come close to being a HOFer and would be a disgrace to those who've put up better numbers and haven't made it.

[strummer 0]

Long time listeners of M & M know that Greenberg knows ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about baseball.  He's an NBA/NFL guy who is "forced" to talk about baseball.

I think you're pushing it saying he knows much about the NFL as well.

Probably. Greenberg is an NBA guy, he covered the Bulls during their dynasty in the 90s. He knows some football, but is absolutely clueless about baseball. M & M is a terrible show for baseball fans, as neither host is a fan or knows anything about the game

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

I gave up on them after about 3 weeks. When I realized all their weekly guests sucked and took up 20-40 minutes a day I gave up on it. Plus Greensburg is on Max Kellerman's level of sports knowledge, ie knowing one sport well and pretending he knows about everything else.

 

Also here's the link to Maris' career stats: http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/marisro01.shtml

[Styles 0]

Maris never topped 39 HR's in any other season beside the 61... and he only had three 100 RBI seasons in 12 seasons if you want to go down that route. Screw the poor life and sentimentality stuff, the guy doesn't even come close to being a HOFer and would be a disgrace to those who've put up better numbers and haven't made it.

A DISGRACE? Geez, we're not inducting Jose Canseco here. If it makes you feel better Dale Murphy can come too.

[HarleyQuinn 0]

Maris never topped 39 HR's in any other season beside the 61... and he only had three 100 RBI seasons in 12 seasons if you want to go down that route. Screw the poor life and sentimentality stuff, the guy doesn't even come close to being a HOFer and would be a disgrace to those who've put up better numbers and haven't made it.

 

A DISGRACE? Geez, we're not inducting Jose Canseco here. If it makes you feel better Dale Murphy can come too.

It's not a matter of character, etc. I'm talking disgrace due to the stats he put up. Outside of 1961, he was decent-solid with the bat. If you induct Maris, you'd have to induct the following:

 

- Jeromy Burnitz(275 HR in 12 seasons...the same as Maris and Burnitz has 4 100+ RBI seasons)

- Dante Bichette(274 HR in 14 seasons with 5 100+ RBI seasons)

- Danny Tartabull(262 HR in 14 seasons with 5 100+ RBI seasons)

- Moises Alou(278 HR in 13 seasons with 5 100+ RBI seasons)

- Dean Palmer(275 HR in 14 seasons with 4 100+ RBI seasons)

 

Would you call any of those guys legit Hall of Famers on the same level as a George Brett, Joe Dimaggio, or Eddie Murray? All Maris had going for him was that 61 HR season. Yes, it's a fabulous season and a record breaking one at that....but it was just one season and the HOF is meant for the careers. If you induct Maris, you're therefore lowering the standards for a career to induct others and the HOF is supposed to be for the great players of the game over their careers.

 

Also Dale Murphy had 310 HR and 5 100+ RBI seasons by his 12th season.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

While Maris has similar stats to Burnitz and company, he is a notch ahead of those guys. Honestly, there are worse players in the Hall. But that doesn't give Maris a pass.