If Luke knew who Anikan really was

[Art Sandusky 0]

Vader never told Luke to kill him. He said "only your hatred can destroy me now" during the duel in ESB, but that was part of the effort to turn Luke instead of an actual command.

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

Didn't want to start a new thread for this, but I got the latest issue of "Star Wars Insider". They've got a big spread on the action figures for "Revenge of the Sith", and 3 of them caught my eye. Looks like we'll be seeing Tarkin, Mon Mothma, and Captain Antilles (i.e. 3PO's and R2's last master, according to 3PO). pop up in "Sith".

[Art Sandusky 0]

That's not really a spoiler unless you count pleasant little (and keeping with continuity) surprises. Hell, the person who was named for Tarkin's role has been shown around the internet in the proper makeup/outfit.

[CBright7831 0]

^ Poor, poor Nute Gunray.

[Art Sandusky 0]

Man, Nute Gunray's the guy who's tried to have his wife killed for the last 13 years. Think Anakin would spare him? Hells no.

 

"Shoot her... or something!" is still a great line though.

[Guest Askewniverse]

Didn't want to start a new thread, since there's already 3 SW topics on the first page, but is anyone else watching Clone Wars? Vol. 1 was released on DVD today and Vol. 2 started last night on Cartoon Network. The series is supposed to be canon, covering the events between AOTC and ROTS.

 

The first two chapters of Vol. 2 have been pretty good. The highlight was Anakin officially becoming a Jedi Knight in a ceremony that concluded with Yoda cutting off Anakin's Padawan braid. Dooku training Grievous was pretty cool as well.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

I was thinking about getting the Clone Wars DVD, but I wasn't sure what it meant by Volume 1. Now that I know, I think I will get it.

 

I wanna know how the hell the Clone Wars wasn't a movie in it's own right though. I mean, they make a whole movie about finding some kid and doing some racing, then the war gets relegated to a cartoon? Bushwa.

 

Oh yeah, I also wanted to ask if there's any explanation for the fact that the Emperor looks about a billion years older then Palpatine, yet they're the same person. I mean, from what I could tell, he even looks that old and ragged in the trailers.

[Guest PlatinumBoy]

I was thinking about getting the Clone Wars DVD, but I wasn't sure what it meant by Volume 1. Now that I know, I think I will get it.

 

I wanna know how the hell the Clone Wars wasn't a movie in it's own right though. I mean, they make a whole movie about finding some kid and doing some racing, then the war gets relegated to a cartoon? Bushwa.

 

Oh yeah, I also wanted to ask if there's any explanation for the fact that the Emperor looks about a billion years older then Palpatine, yet they're the same person. I mean, from what I could tell, he even looks that old and ragged in the trailers.

My guess would be in public places like the Senate he uses his immense power to look younger and not so evil looking. However, when alone or once he's the Emperor, he really doesn't care how people see him so he just shows his real form.

[starvenger 0]

Agreed. I think it's something that Lucas did conciously. Palpatine is the facade, the mask hiding Darth Sidious. Hence he's young(ish), energetic and basically the standup guy people want to see. The Emperor looks old and ragged, Lucas' visual rendition of the phrase "power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely".

[Art Sandusky 0]

In Episode III, Palpatine tells Anakin a story about Darth Plagueis, a Sith Lord who learned how to prolong life through the dark side of the Force in order to get Anakin interested in the dark side, since Anakin tells Palpatine he has been having dreams of Padme dying. Palpatine reveals that Darth Plagueis was real and did know how to prolong life... until Palpatine killed him. Palpatine's real age is subject to all kinds of retarded EU fuzzy arguments. I say he's in his 100s by the time of ROTJ.

[starvenger 0]

Interesting.

 

I think guessing his age depends on how old you think he is in the prequels and what the gap is between them and the original trilogy. Ballpark, I'd more or less agree with you and say he's right at the century mark.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Interesting. 

 

I think guessing his age depends on how old you think he is in the prequels and what the gap is between them and the original trilogy.  Ballpark, I'd more or less agree with you and say he's right at the century mark.

Luke & Leia are 20 in ANH if that helps.

[Black Lushus 0]

In Episode III, Palpatine tells Anakin a story about Darth Plagueis, a Sith Lord who learned how to prolong life through the dark side of the Force in order to get Anakin interested in the dark side, since Anakin tells Palpatine he has been having dreams of Padme dying. Palpatine reveals that Darth Plagueis was real and did know how to prolong life... until Palpatine killed him. Palpatine's real age is subject to all kinds of retarded EU fuzzy arguments. I say he's in his 100s by the time of ROTJ.

the most retarded thing I heard, EU wise has to come from the oh so heralded Thrawn Trilogy, he had clones...

[Art Sandusky 0]

You're forgetting the dumb shit where Luke fell in love with the spirit of some woman who was imprisoned in an old Imperial ship.

[starvenger 0]

You're forgetting the dumb shit where Luke fell in love with the spirit of some woman who was imprisoned in an old Imperial ship.

Yeah, the Callista "Trilogy". Children of the Jedi, Darksaber and Planet of Twilight. Some real weak shit, with Barbara Hambly's meh stories bookending Kevin J. Anderson and some Death Star-type stuff. You won't hear me defending it.

 

the most retarded thing I heard, EU wise has to come from the oh so heralded Thrawn Trilogy, he had clones...

...actually that was established in the comic series "Dark Empire", where Luke goes to the Dark Side to understand it more.

[Art Sandusky 0]

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

[Black Lushus 0]

 

I'm quite certain they mentioned the clone idea in the Thrawn Trilogy as well...it was mentioned before in comic books?

[starvenger 0]

 

I'm quite certain they mentioned the clone idea in the Thrawn Trilogy as well...it was mentioned before in comic books?

The clone idea was indeed used in the Thrawn books - one of those deus ex machina things I think - but yeah, it was used in the Dark Horse miniseries first.

[Black Lushus 0]

questions...

 

when was the term "Sith" established?

 

when was the Emperor first referred to as "Palpatine"?

 

even though Lucas himself may not follow EU to a T, does every other comic book, novel, video game, RPG, etc. follow the same EU canon?

[Kaertos 0]

You know, I don't think the term "Sith" was actually used, as dialogue, in the movies. Although every promotional item that came out back in the day called him Darth Vader, Dark Lord of the Sith, and I believe that is how he is referred to in the script.

 

They have not, in the movies, referred to the Emperor as Palpatine. The origin of the name comes from a brief little forward to the original Star Wars novel, supposedly an quote from the "Journal of the Whills." The first time I remember seeing it is in the Return of the Jedi Novelization.

 

As far as the EU goes, the novels and comics, from what I understand, try to stick to the continuity established in previous installments. Lucas, however, will occasionally use a character or a name from the EU, but basically refers to it as "not canon". Or, as I heard one of the authors say (I don't remember which one):

 

"George Lucas is like the kid on the block with the coolest toys. We all love to go and play in his driveway, and we have a great time. But there's no rule that says he can't take away some of the toys, or, for that matter, back a truck up over everything we've done."

Edited March 24, 2005 by Kaertos

[starvenger 0]

As far as the EU goes, the novels and comics, from what I understand, try to stick to the continuity established in previous installments. Lucas, however, will occasionally use a character or a name from the EU, but basically refers to it as "not canon". Or, as I heard one of the authors say (I don't remember which one):

 

"George Lucas is like the kid on the block with the coolest toys. We all love to go and play in his driveway, and we have a great time. But there's no rule that says he can't take away some of the toys, or, for that matter, back a truck up over everything we've done."

To elaborate further, anything you see on the big screen is canon. The Clone Wars cartoon, apparently, is canon. Everything else, including the movie novelizations, are considered secondary sources, or the Expanded Universe.

 

Now, Lucasfilm has people whose job is to be "continuity gurus", making sure that nothing steps over what has been established in the movies, and also, that all of the EU stuff ties in together (which they didn't do as well when the novels were at Bantam). If Lucas decides to go an entirely different direction with things, it's their job to come up with explanations/retcons to make the EU mesh with the new canon. Splinter of the Mind's Eye must really give them a headache.

 

I think that quote was from Matthew Stover, btw.

 

when was the term "Sith" established?

I'm fairly certain that that was in the novelization for Star Wars, meaning that Lucas had it in an earlier script.

[Art Sandusky 0]

I don't even recognize the cartoon. The films are all I recognize.

[pochorenella 0]

That's too bad, 'cause the Clone Wars series is kicking ass.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

retcons

 

Someone explain this term to me. I know it means re-doing what was already done, but it looks like it's short for something (I think I've seen it spelled ret-con). Where does the word come from?

[starvenger 0]

retcons

 

Someone explain this term to me. I know it means re-doing what was already done, but it looks like it's short for something (I think I've seen it spelled ret-con). Where does the word come from?

from wikopdia.org

 

Retroactive continuity – commonly contracted to the word retcon – refers to the act of changing previously established details of a fictional setting, often without providing an explanation for the changes within the context of that setting.

 

ORIGINS

Retroactive continuity – commonly contracted to the portmanteau word retcon – refers to the act of changing previously established details of a fictional setting, often without providing an explanation for the changes within the context of that setting.

 

USAGE

Spoiler warning: Plot or ending details follow.

 

Retconning is common in comic books, especially those of large publishing houses such as Marvel Comics and DC Comics, due to the lengthy history of many series and the number of independent authors contributing to their development. Retconning also occurs in television shows, radio series, series of novels and any other type of episodic fiction.

 

Some forms of retconning do not directly contradict previously established facts, but "fill in" missing background details necessary for current plot points, or reveal new information that radically changes the interpretation of old stories. The shortened form was coined in 1988 on Usenet to describe a development in the comic book Swamp Thing, in which Alan Moore revealed that the title character was not Alec Holland transformed into a monster, but instead a plant-monster infected with Alec Holland's memories and personality.

 

Related to this is the concept of shadow history or secret history, in which the events of a story occur within the bounds of already-established (especially real-world historical) events, but have been hitherto unrevealed.

 

Retroactive continuity is similar to, but not exactly the same as, plot inconsistencies introduced accidentally or through lack of concern for continuity; retconning is usually done deliberately. However, retcons are sometimes created after the fact to explain such mistakes. It is also generally distinct from replacing the actor who plays a part in an ongoing series, which is more properly an example of weak or loose continuity (i.e. the different appearance of the character is ignored), rather than retroactively changing past continuity.

 

Unpopular retcons are often unofficially combated through the judicious use of Krypto-revisionism, which is the phenomenon of a fan base deciding to ignore a particular retcon, itself a form of meta-retcon stating that "it was never published". Similarly, fans may invent unofficial explanations for inconsistencies. (See fanon, Soap Opera Rapid Aging Syndrome).

 

Retconning is also distinct from direct revision; when George Lucas re-edited the original Star Wars trilogy, he was making changes directly to the source material, not introducing new source material that contradicted the contents of previous material. However, the current series of Star Wars prequels, do qualify as "new source material", and many fans have pointed out instances which they claim "retcon" elements of the original trilogy (see below).

 

While retconning is usually done without comment by the creators, DC Comics has on rare occasions promoted special events dedicated to retroactively rewriting the history of the DC Comics universe. The most important and well known such event was the mini-series Crisis on Infinite Earths; this was a profound change that allowed for wholesale revisions of their characters. (It might be argued that these stories were not retcon, because the changes to the multiverse actually occurred within the story, similar to stories in which a time-traveler to the past changes history from how he remembered it.) A second major retcon in DC Comics was in a similar event called Zero Hour.

 

Retconning has occurred a number of times in the history of the Star Trek universe. The various Star Trek television series and movies were produced over several decades, with multiple writers and producers. In both cases significant amounts of time, effort, pages and film have been used by later writers to explain or qualify apparent inconsistencies from previous stories. In addition, Star Trek shares a problem with many works of future history in that historical events occurring in the future eventually become part of the past, and hence some effort is needed to make the story line consistent with actual history.

 

Retconning is also used in roleplaying. At the GM's discretion, events in a roleplay that have already happened can be changed after the fact to maintain consistency in the story or to fix significant mistakes that were missed during play.

Hope that helps

[Art Sandusky 0]

And there's my learning for the day.

[Art Sandusky 0]

So yeah, this was my desktop for a while a couple of months ago, but it's still a neat picture some of you may not have seen yet.