Orton's RAW promo

[tominator89 0]

As far as I'm concerned, Taker's big job should be comparable to Andre putting over Hogan.

[jester 0]

Another thing. Who here is convinced that if Orton does beat Undertaker, about 12 seconds later he will be booked into another program with HHH, and HHH will go over?

[NYU 0]

Okay, how about another one. Remember the last big streak in wrestling? How well did WCW benefit from Nash ending it?

Nash wasn't the kind of guy that needed to be built up at that point. He was already as established as he was going to get, people saw him as a full-time Main Eventer, and the end of Goldberg's streak at Starrcade just seemed illogical since it hardly received any hype.

 

This isn't the same type of situation. Unlike Nash, Orton is someone that sorely needs credibility. This is one of those do-or-die situations -- if he doesn't get the fans to follow along with him, whether he is face or heel, he might never be able to do it. Unlike Nash, Orton is one of those part-time Main Eventers that are flirting on the edge of being a full-time headliner on the Raw brand. Nash was at that level for WCW, but Randy's not there yet. And unlike the end of Goldberg's streak hardly being hyped, the entire focus of this WrestleMania surrounds the Undertaker's winning streak at Mania and Orton's goal to put an end to it. This wasn't the case at XX against Kane or XIX against A-Train/Big show or X8 against Flair. But it finally is a focus point this year.

 

The Nash/Goldberg and Orton/Taker comparison does not hold water. Besides holding the opinion that Taker's record at WrestleMania should be remembered for alltime so he won't be forgotten, there's no logical reason for him winning at Mania. You need to build new stars -- regardless of whether or not the Internet community thinks this star is worth sacrificing a meaningless win streak over. Keep in mind, for all intents and purposes, Orton has now turned heel again. Most people around mid-2004 loved Orton as a heel and turned on him as a face. How do we know this situation might not happen again? For all we know, it could be the beginnings of the Kurt Angle syndrome all over again.

 

To build new stars, chances need to be taken. Having Orton beat Taker at WrestleMania is one of those chances.

[Guest Rrrsh]

Austin, Rock and HBK can put over a "nobody" but Taker can't at Wrestlemania?

 

That is, by far, the stupidest thing I have ever read.

 

A close second was the statemnet that RVD would be better than Orton to go over Taker.

[jester 0]

Okay, how about another one.  Remember the last big streak in wrestling?  How well did WCW benefit from Nash ending it?

Goldberg was still a fresh face on the scene. He was popular, and had potential to draw money until Nash and pals shit all over him. It would be like jobbing out Hogan right after he beat the Iron Sheik. Fans weren't sick of him yet and wanted to see him kick more ass.

 

Undertaker is not a fresh face. He's had a long ride at the top and has been booked extremely protectively. He's not drawing huge dollars at the peak of his career. If he was, it would be idiotic to job him out.

 

Nash, as it has been pointed out, was already an established main eventer. A beyond stale main eventer.

 

Orton is trying to get to the next level. That main event level. Beating Undertaker would in theory get him there. (ok, I don't believe it either, but I do believe UT has to lose that streak to someone)

[Exslade ZX 0]

Taker has one big job in him, and you are going to waste it on a nobody like Orton. Save it for someone special.

Well maybe that's why Orton needs to win this. He's still a 'Nobody' in some people's eyes for instance because he doesn't have something like a big win over Taker.

 

Yea, he won the World title, from Benoit. Although it may anger a lot of smarks, Benoit isn't exactly the man to beat to prove 'you're that great'. Especially since around the time, every week Benoit was needing Eugene's help >_>.

 

And then, when they could have done something with him, they fucked his character up with the quick face turn, which the fans didn't get behind (they should have known that) and he had to drop the title in one month.

 

So all of the big moments he's had..WWE has fucked up somehow. They may do the same here...but hey, it'll still make him a bigger star.

[4hartthreat 0]

Wow, I can't believe the Orton hate is still so strong here, that it is turning people from Taker haters to Taker marks. You don't like him, that's fine, but for the hatred to be so strong that it blinds you to the obvious fact that Taker NEEDS to finally do the j-o-b at Mania to Orton is beyond ridiculous. This thread shoots Orton beating Taker to #2 on my list of WM wants right behind HHH retaining the title over the TRUE never-will-be, Batista.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Batista is over. Orton isn't.

[4hartthreat 0]

Batista is only over because of his storyline with HHH. The second Mania is over, win or lose, it will all be over and the WWE will be stuck with, if he wins, an unover champion who can't even compensate by having matches anything even close to good.

[AndrewTS 0]

Orton has 20 years to left in his carrer and will be the future.

Illogical argument? Non-sequitor? Or just a pile of horseshit? I can't decide.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Batista is only over because of his storyline with HHH. The second Mania is over, win or lose, it will all be over and the WWE will be stuck with, if he wins, an unover champion who can't even compensate by having matches anything even close to good.

Orton wasn't over even with HHH. In fact, the biggest heel in the company was being cheered over him. The only time Orton ever got heat was when he was sucking Hunter's dick in Evolution. He's useless by himself. And I must have missed all those ***** matches Orton had while on top for the past six months.

[Gary Floyd 0]

Ya know, it's strange, but I just don't think Orton's the guy that Taker needs to job to. Granted, Taker did eventually job to Lesner, but old Brock isn't around now. Besides, the thing about Lesner was that people could buy him as a legit threat. Where as with Orton, you don't.

 

That out of the way, I do think Orton is better off as a heel

[AlaskanHero 0]

Now, I like the Undertaker, I'm a big fan of his. Even after hearing that he holds nearly everybody down. I still love the guy and his character. I recognize the fact that the streak is one of the few things in the WWE that could give someone a much needed rub and push them to a credible Main Eventer level. So after saying that I say that Orton NEEDS this win.

 

Let's say Taker wins. His streak is extended to 13-0. Well, in doing that Orton gets buried as he couldn't kill the legend of the Undertaker nor could he beat a 47-year old guy. Makes Orton look bad even though the Undertaker is the Undertaker. Yes, Orton isn't setting the world on fire right now when it comes to reaction, but Mick Foley wasn't exactly a heat magnet either when he walked into Hell in a Cell that night against Taker (yes, that comparison is a large stretch). A win could get the ball rolling in the right direction.

 

And how is Orton a "never-will-be"? The man is 25! He's still young, not even at his prime yet. Depending on how he takes care of himself, Orton probably has another 25+ years to look forward to. Shit, I could say any of you are never going to be worth a shit in whatever industry you're in because you're not the greatest at it right now, but that doesn't mean I'm right. All we can really do is give Orton another one to three years. If he hasn't improved in that time, then I'll agree that he is a "Never-Will-Be" (however, if he does prove to be a bust, the E will hopefully have given up on him by that point). Besides, wasn't Ric Flair in his 30s when he was having 5 Star classics with Ricky Steamboat?

 

Heh, I'm not even all that much of a fan of Orton and personally I'd like to see someone like Shelton Benjamin or Rey Mysterio Jr. (hey, I can dream) end the streak, but hey if the WWE and Taker are willing to give him this kind of rub then I might as well just see where this leads. I mean, Rocky Maivia didn't turn into the Rock over night (well, he sorta did, but that's beside the point), so who knows? Maybe he will become the next "Boom Messiah" and lead the WWE as the future.

[AndrewTS 0]

Kahran: Batista's much older than Orton. Orton might magically get to be a better worker because he has more potential. Orton is the future.

 

Are these the basic premises of the Ortonpologists?

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Kahran:  Batista's much older than Orton.  Orton might magically get to be a better worker because he has more potential.  Orton is the future. 

And Orton is older than Dupree. Let's give Rene the World Championship!!!

 

That wasn't directed at you BTW.

[Secret Agent 0]

Batista will still be over if WWE continues to build him/advance him with another hot storyline. Maybe Orton/Batista if Orton beats UT at Mania or whoever wins the ladder match.

 

I don't get where all of the "Orton isn't over" comments come from. I don't get to watch RAW very often, but I watched it tonight. When he came on camera with his backstage segement with Stacy I heard the crowd cheering. When Orton came out to the ring I heard the crowd cheering at least at the same volume that they were cheering for Jerico for his tag match.

 

No, his reaction isn't as big as Batista, but the important thing is he IS getting a reaction wether you guys want to believe it or not. As far as I'm concerned with this Orton/Taker match at Wrestlemania, I think he should win. It would give him enough heel heat to go forward with a main event program and it would be a heel that isn't named HHH.

 

Besides, WWE already made Orton's shirt with him beating Undertaker check marked on the back.

 

By the way, I missed Randy's World Title run. How bad was it really? Had he stayed heel would it have turned out differently? Did WWE pull the plug on Orton too soon; in effect killing what ever heat he might have been able to build with a more credible run? Hell, they gave JBL what, 8 months now? Surely Orton was getting as good if not better reaction than JBL, right?

[AndrewTS 0]

Kahran:  Batista's much older than Orton.  Orton might magically get to be a better worker because he has more potential.  Orton is the future. 

And Orton is older than Dupree. Let's give Rene the World Championship!!!

How old is Taker's kid these days? Since half his genes came from Taker's loins he has potential.

[AlaskanHero 0]

Kahran: Batista's much older than Orton. Orton might magically get to be a better worker because he has more potential. Orton is the future.

 

Are these the basic premises of the Ortonpologists?

Well, yeah, that's about sums it up. Although, I'm all for giving Batista the ball to run with for a while. I like when risks are taken and new people (not just younger guys) are allowed to get a chance to shine.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

Batista is only over because of his storyline with HHH. The second Mania is over, win or lose, it will all be over and the WWE will be stuck with, if he wins, an unover champion who can't even compensate by having matches anything even close to good.

This is the dumbest argument I've ever seen. Orton has almost 2 full years of a god push and he's still getting a mid-card reaction. They did basically nothing with Batista and he got so over that they switched their plans for Mania. You give Batista even a fraction of the push you gave Orton and the guy will be over.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

I don't get where all of the "Orton isn't over" comments come from.

 

Almost two years of an insane push and he's getting mid-card reactions. Batista, Benoit, Jericho and HBK all get bigger reactions than Orton.

[AndrewTS 0]

Kahran:  Batista's much older than Orton.  Orton might magically get to be a better worker because he has more potential.  Orton is the future. 

 

Are these the basic premises of the Ortonpologists?

Well, yeah, that's about sums it up. Although, I'm all for giving Batista the ball to run with for a while. I like when risks are taken and new people (not just younger guys) are allowed to get a chance to shine.

So why can't we wait until Orton is actually good and has developed an interesting character? What's the rush?

 

He might get way too big an ego, get burned out, lazy, complacent, and opt to leave in a couple years.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Just a quick question. If we had the exact same situation except that it was Edge vs. Taker instead of Orton, how many of the Taker supporters here would be more accepting of him jobbing? I know I'd be one. Edge could benefit from the win a lot more than Orton could.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

Ehhhh...... Edge is pushing it a little too but I could accept that a lot more than Orton.

[Secret Agent 0]

I don't get where all of the "Orton isn't over" comments come from.

 

Almost two years of an insane push and he's getting mid-card reactions. Batista, Benoit, Jericho and HBK all get bigger reactions than Orton.

What, you got some kind of meter to measure the cheers like this is American Bandstand?

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Ehhhh...... Edge is pushing it a little too but I could accept that a lot more than Orton.

Well, I still think the streak should stay intact. But there is a lot more upside there. And Edge is a much better wrestler than Orton, so the Batista argument doesn't hold up either.

[AndrewTS 0]

Just a quick question. If we had the exact same situation except that it was Edge vs. Taker instead of Orton, how many of the Taker supporters here would be more accepting of him jobbing? I know I'd be one. Edge could benefit from the win a lot more than Orton could.

The Lita thing aside, I'd probably still be apprehensive about it, because I don't think Edge is exactly deserving of it either. However, yes, I'd be less opposed.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

Ehhhh...... Edge is pushing it a little too but I could accept that a lot more than Orton.

Well, I still think the streak should stay intact. But there is a lot more upside there. And Edge is a much better wrestler than Orton, so the Batista argument doesn't hold up either.

My main disagreement is Edge doesn't need that kind of push. A few wins over HBK and he's ready to headline.

 

Brock Lesnar would've been acceptable during his time with the company. John Cena I think could pull off the win if his character was tweaked. Other than that there's not anyone I can think of on the roster who has enough potential right now.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Ehhhh...... Edge is pushing it a little too but I could accept that a lot more than Orton.

Well, I still think the streak should stay intact. But there is a lot more upside there. And Edge is a much better wrestler than Orton, so the Batista argument doesn't hold up either.

My main disagreement is Edge doesn't need that kind of push. A few wins over HBK and he's ready to headline.

Might as well ask him to part the Red Sea while he's at it.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

I did an edit on my last post just so you know KR.

[Guest Rrrsh]

Batista is over.  Orton isn't.

Orton will be over after WM if he beats Taker.

 

Batitsa wont be, no matter what.

 

 

Think ahead, not in the present.