How would WWE react in the event of a tragedy?

[CBright7831 0]

If Vince died, it would go to the man who currently runs the WWE, Triple H.

[Black Lushus 0]

Slickster, come on man, comparing an actor missing a line in a play to a man plunging to his death is a bit of a stretch, isn't it?

[Jobber of the Week 0]

If Vince died, it would go to the man who currently runs the WWE, Triple H.

I know that, I'm just predicting that he and Steph will run it into the ground and decide to cash out by selling it as damaged goods instead of completely going down with the ship. The McMahons own a big majority of WWE stock, so to cash out and give control to someone else, they simply have to sell that stock.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Slickster, come on man, comparing an actor missing a line in a play to a man plunging to his death is a bit of a stretch, isn't it?

He's probably still angry that a man had the gall to die and interrupt his escapist entertainment.

[Black Lushus 0]

I dunno, I didn't even want to watch the rest of that PPV after they announced that he died...my buddy and I both had that sickening/shocked feeling the rest of the way and just couldn't even get into it anymore...i'd probably be that way with any event that a person died in...

[bob_barron 0]

And I find it funny that everyone is upset that 'the show must go on' rings true in wrestling; not everyone is a smark and to see a show like this get cut off because of real life events defeats the purpose (escapist entertainment).

 

Owen Hart plummetted to his death in front of a live audience. Don't you understand this? Your points make absolutely no sense given what we're arguing. Should WWE never mention any wrestling tragedy since it's escapist? Should they not have acknowledged Stu Hart's death?

 

If an actor botches a line or misses a cue, the play continues and actors ad-lib.

Would you rather see the house lights come on and the director call for an intermission?

 

 

OWEN HART DIED YOU FUCKING MORON. An actor messing up his lines and Owen Hart plummetting his death is probably the dumbest comparison I've ever read. If an actor was supposed to be lowered on stage and plumetted to his death- I think they would stop the show.

 

Many people have died during circus performances over the decades; however, it is the policy of the business to never stop the show or let on there's a problem. After all, both the WWE and the circus are escapist entertainment intended to amuse and help the viewer forget about the troubles of the real world.

 

Your quotes from circus sites don't enhance your point in the slightest. Owen Hart died in a horrific death and they should've stopped the show. Vince could've offered refunds to everyone, the company wouldn't have gone bankrupt and he wouldn't have looked like a huge asshole.

 

How many times have we seen wrestlers get seriously injured, only to jump to the finish? This keeps the suspension of disbelief in the eyes of the fans. If you stopped the match immediately after every injury, it would take away that suspension of disbelief.

 

Again- a wrestler getting hurt in the match and going to the finish is different from a man falling to his death.

 

And they have stopped matches after people got hurt.

[Guest MikeSC]

In defense of Vince, it's easy to make these calls with years and years of hindsight. Try making it with NO time to think.

 

Vince had considerations we aren't taking into account and no time to sit and try to think. He asked the boys what they wanted and they agreed to continue the show.

-=Mike

[bob_barron 0]

In defense of Vince, it's easy to make these calls with years and years of hindsight. Try making it with NO time to think.

 

Vince had considerations we aren't taking into account and no time to sit and try to think. He asked the boys what they wanted and they agreed to continue the show.

-=Mike

I understand that Mike and I know Vince was I'm sure freaked out beyond belief. But I'd think it'd be common sense to call off the show and deal with everything when the time comes.

 

 

And regarding more crass WWF things- showing footage of the funeral was such a dick thing to do

[Guest MikeSC]

They showed a few seconds of the funeral of one of their guys. If they didn't, they would have been called dicks.

-=Mike

[bob_barron 0]

Martha Hart specificially asked them not to show footage of the funeral and Vince promised he wouldn't

[Slickster 0]

Special thanks to RRR for inventing the 'debunk-point-by-point-in-bold' system.

 

And I find it funny that everyone is upset that 'the show must go on' rings true in wrestling; not everyone is a smark and to see a show like this get cut off because of real life events defeats the purpose (escapist entertainment).

 

Owen Hart plummetted to his death in front of a live audience. Don't you understand this? Your points make absolutely no sense given what we're arguing. Should WWE never mention any wrestling tragedy since it's escapist? Should they not have acknowledged Stu Hart's death?

 

Don't talk down to me, bob. You're only showing the futility of your argument.

 

 

If an actor botches a line or misses a cue, the play continues and actors ad-lib.

Would you rather see the house lights come on and the director call for an intermission?

 

 

OWEN HART DIED YOU FUCKING MORON. An actor messing up his lines and Owen Hart plummetting his death is probably the dumbest comparison I've ever read. If an actor was supposed to be lowered on stage and plumetted to his death- I think they would stop the show.

 

I'll admit that wasn't the best analogy, but then again it's tough to find an analogy to this situation due to the unique characteristics of pro wrestling. Also, me writing something like this at 4am was clearly not the best strategy.

 

However, to paint me as some callous person just because I recognize the importance of kayfabe and you don't is another terrible tactic for you to use.

 

 

Many people have died during circus performances over the decades; however, it is the policy of the business to never stop the show or let on there's a problem. After all, both the WWE and the circus are escapist entertainment intended to amuse and help the viewer forget about the troubles of the real world.

 

Your quotes from circus sites don't enhance your point in the slightest. Owen Hart died in a horrific death and they should've stopped the show. Vince could've offered refunds to everyone, the company wouldn't have gone bankrupt and he wouldn't have looked like a huge asshole.

 

I quote from circus literature because, like wrestling, circus performers are trained to continue the show regardless of what happens (barring fires, etc.). There's something called 'kayfabe,' I'm sure you've heard of it. Have you not noticed that in the vast majority of cases when a wrestler gets injured, the match is not immediately stopped, but rather they jump to the finish?

 

Like it or not, they are trying to maintain at least a modicum of kayfabe. We smarks can debate this issue because we know it's fake and can therefore be concerned about the welfare of the wrestlers. However, the marks went to that show to cheer for Stone Cold and boo the Undertaker, not to be concerned about Mark Callaway and Steve Williams. It's different in sports because Sammy Sosa on the field is Sammy Sosa off the field too.

 

To stop a match for injury is to say "Oh, these guys were beating the shit out of each before, but now he's REALLY hurt" is a slap in the face to kayfabe itself and one of the reasons why much of Russo's booking was unsuccessful.

 

 

How many times have we seen wrestlers get seriously injured, only to jump to the finish? This keeps the suspension of disbelief in the eyes of the fans. If you stopped the match immediately after every injury, it would take away that suspension of disbelief.

 

Again- a wrestler getting hurt in the match and going to the finish is different from a man falling to his death.

 

And they have stopped matches after people got hurt.

 

Yeah, like when Steve Austin injured his neck. Or when Kurt Angle got concussed. Or when Eugene injured his knee. Or when Lita injured her knee. Or when Brock got concussed. Or when Buff Bagwell broke his neck. Or when Paul Orndorff got a stinger. Or when Chuck Austin broke his neck. Or when Sabu broke his jaw. Or when Vince broke his pelvis. Yup, they just stopped everything and didn't try to maintain the illusion. The wrestlers just laid there and didn't try to continue the match, either, apparently.

 

The only two exceptions I can think of were Villano IV and Droz (but in both cases the injury was so obvious and debilatating that it was clear they couldn't continue.)

 

bob, like it or not it's ALWAYS been policy in this business to continue the show regardless of what happens. It's an extension of kayfabe, which this whole business is built on. Many of the wrestlers themselves wanted to continue, so they did.

 

I don't think that continuing the show was disrespectful; what could it have accomplished? Having 16,000 people create a traffic jam for the ambulance? Forcing the wrestlers to deal with the situation immediately instead of letting them wrestle to take their minds [and the fans' minds] off of what they just witnessed would not have been the best strategy, in my opinion.

 

And this one's for you, HTQ: Fuck you. I respected you.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

They should have kept the show going after scrapping Owen up to keep kayfabe?

[Slickster 0]

"I don't think that continuing the show was disrespectful; what could it have accomplished? Having 16,000 people create a traffic jam for the ambulance? Forcing the wrestlers to deal with the situation immediately instead of letting them wrestle to take their minds [and the fans' minds] off of what they just witnessed would not have been the best strategy, in my opinion."

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

So you didn't mind wrestlers having no time to deal with their grief and basically being forced to perform whether they wanted to or not ? If someone I've known for a long time dies, I'd want to deal with my grief in private and right away. I'd think that's the way most people would want to deal with it.

 

16,000 people were leaving that building no matter when they stopped the show, so having the decency to stop the show when Owen fell or when they got word he was dead wouldn't have been that big a problem to deal with.

[iliketurtles 0]

.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

If someone just fell from 75ft into one of my rings and was dying, I'd stop the show there and then out of human decency. As I said earlier, this is one time when humanity and decency should have overcome monetary worries.

[iliketurtles 0]

And I agree with you sitting here now.

 

But I honestly could say I'm not sure what I would do if I was actually in that situation. I mean, you don't exactly plan that stuff out. I would of hated to be Vince that night.

 

No matter what he did people would of critized it. I think if someone like this would to happen again, Vince would cancel it. Just because he knows what happened and all the shit he got the first time.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

I don't need to think about what my reaction would be if I was in that situation. I'd stop the show, no questions asked.

 

And as I said earlier, stopping the show would have garnered less criticism than not stopping it did.

[bob_barron 0]

Don't talk down to me, bob. You're only showing the futility of your argument.

 

You're the one who is comparing an actor flubbing his lines to what happened to Owen.

 

However, to paint me as some callous person just because I recognize the importance of kayfabe and you don't is another terrible tactic for you to use.

 

I'm all for keeping kayfabe but a guy fell to his death. That's what you don't seem to get.

 

I quote from circus literature because, like wrestling, circus performers are trained to continue the show regardless of what happens (barring fires, etc.). There's something called 'kayfabe,' I'm sure you've heard of it. Have you not noticed that in the vast majority of cases when a wrestler gets injured, the match is not immediately stopped, but rather they jump to the finish?

 

All your examples would be nice if we were arguing about something other then a guy plummeting to his death.

 

We smarks can debate this issue because we know it's fake and can therefore be concerned about the welfare of the wrestlers. However, the marks went to that show to cheer for Stone Cold and boo the Undertaker, not to be concerned about Mark Callaway and Steve Williams. It's different in sports because Sammy Sosa on the field is Sammy Sosa off the field too.

 

I think if the fans found out Owen Hart was dead- they'd probably be sad.

 

To stop a match for injury is to say "Oh, these guys were beating the shit out of each before, but now he's REALLY hurt" is a slap in the face to kayfabe itself and one of the reasons why much of Russo's booking was unsuccessful.

 

I'm not arguing that. A guy getting hurt is not the same as Owen Hart dying.

 

Yeah, like when Steve Austin injured his neck. Or when Kurt Angle got concussed. Or when Eugene injured his knee. Or when Lita injured her knee. Or when Brock got concussed. Or when Buff Bagwell broke his neck. Or when Paul Orndorff got a stinger. Or when Chuck Austin broke his neck. Or when Sabu broke his jaw. Or when Vince broke his pelvis. Yup, they just stopped everything and didn't try to maintain the illusion. The wrestlers just laid there and didn't try to continue the match, either, apparently.

 

The only two exceptions I can think of were Villano IV and Droz (but in both cases the injury was so obvious and debilatating that it was clear they couldn't continue.)

 

Chris Marvel v. Paul London

JR Ryder v. Chavo Guerrero

Eddy Guerrero v. Chris Jericho

Benoit v. Sabu

 

4 matches off the top of my head that were stopped due to injury.

 

bob, like it or not it's ALWAYS been policy in this business to continue the show regardless of what happens. It's an extension of kayfabe, which this whole business is built on. Many of the wrestlers themselves wanted to continue, so they did.

 

I don't care. A man plummeting to his death and dying the way Owen should cause the show to be stopped immediately.

 

I don't think that continuing the show was disrespectful; what could it have accomplished? Having 16,000 people create a traffic jam for the ambulance? Forcing the wrestlers to deal with the situation immediately instead of letting them wrestle to take their minds [and the fans' minds] off of what they just witnessed would not have been the best strategy, in my opinion.

 

You stop the show- let the wrestlers reflect on their colleague instead of going out there and trying to work a crowd in the pain they were in.

 

HTQ refuted that.

[Guest FromBeyondTheGrave]

"I recognize the importance of kayfabe"

 

Kayfabe is dead.

[The Czech Republic 0]

And they have stopped matches after people got hurt.

 

Yeah, like when Steve Austin injured his neck. Or when Kurt Angle got concussed. Or when Eugene injured his knee. Or when Lita injured her knee. Or when Brock got concussed. Or when Buff Bagwell broke his neck. Or when Paul Orndorff got a stinger. Or when Chuck Austin broke his neck. Or when Sabu broke his jaw. Or when Vince broke his pelvis. Yup, they just stopped everything and didn't try to maintain the illusion. The wrestlers just laid there and didn't try to continue the match, either, apparently.

 

The only two exceptions I can think of were Villano IV and Droz (but in both cases the injury was so obvious and debilatating that it was clear they couldn't continue.)

Well, nothing's more debilitating than death.

[Slickster 0]

Fair enough, but I guess it depends on your definition of how far kayfabe should extend. I think that's the main argument here and I can see where my opponents are coming from.

[Guest MikeSC]

They should have kept the show going after scrapping Owen up to keep kayfabe?

They could have believed that Owen, while seriously injured, was not dead.

-=Mike

[Slickster 0]

They should have kept the show going after scrapping Owen up to keep kayfabe?

They could have believed that Owen, while seriously injured, was not dead.

-=Mike

Mike, that's a VERY good point and one that I think ties into my argument too.

 

In the cases where a wrestler is injured, the match (or at least the show) continues.

 

Owen wasn't dead until he was on the way to the hospital, so for all Vince knew it could have been an extremely severe - but not fatal - injury. Ergo, the show could continue because he could have recovered. When the news of his death came back, they had already regained some of the momentum the show had lost so to end it then would have been pointless.

 

Compare to sports: When that umpire died on the field, it made sense to stop the game. When Clint Malarchuk got his throat slashed open on the ice, the game went on because he was still alive and there was the possibility of recovery (he made it to the hospital and miraculously recovered).

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I love how Circus Morality is supposed to be accepted. Think about it. Think about it. CIRCUS MORALITY.

 

But please, continue, this is hilarious stuff. Pile on some more bullshit. Throw in "If Vince had died, he would want them to continue so..", it'll be great.

[bob_barron 0]

In the cases where a wrestler is injured, the match (or at least the show) continues.

 

Most wrestling injuries don't involve someone plummeting to their death.

 

Owen wasn't dead until he was on the way to the hospital, so for all Vince knew it could have been an extremely severe - but not fatal - injury. Ergo, the show could continue because he could have recovered. When the news of his death came back, they had already regained some of the momentum the show had lost so to end it then would have been pointless.

 

Read Martha Hart's book. There really was no chance Owen might recover. While he wasn't officially dead- he was not responding to anything doctors were doing. The thought of him recovering was pretty laughable.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Fuck that.

 

Aliens could have landed on earth with new technology that could have revived him, or even better, THE JAPANESE! At that point in time, Vince didn't know that wouldn't have happened. He did what any of us would have done: assumed Alien/Japanese technology would have saved Owen and continued the show.

[The Czech Republic 0]

There really was no chance Owen might recover. While he wasn't officially dead- he was not responding to anything doctors were doing. The thought of him recovering was pretty laughable.

That's exactly what I said!

[Guest Thrashist]

I've learned a lot from the pro-show-continuation side today. A checklist, of sorts:

 

--The WWF were obliged to act in accordance with 18th-century Circus Morality.

--Likewise, a performer's death is like an actor flubbing his/her line. Or something.

--A riot would ensue if the 16,000 in attendance were deprived of their Val Venis vs Nicole Bass fix.

--The wrestlers needed to take their minds off the tragedy by wrestling in Owen's blood and the dent he left in the ring.

--Cancellation would have lost millions in revenue. How else would they have financed the XFL's locker room cam, after all?

--Kayfabe > Owen Hart's Life

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Don't forget about the possibility of Aliens landing and saving him with their Japanese technology.