A question

[CanadianGuitarist]

An excellent piece on the 5th Estate program on CBC Newsworld got me thinking about the topic.

 

A lot of people will say they are strained, as a result of things like missile defence refusal, no Canadian troops in Iraq, no Canadian cattle allowed in the States, etc.

 

So, I'd like a some input on this. Liberal or Conservative(or Democrat or Republican), Canadian or American, all are welcome to participate.

 

I personally don't think so. A refusal here or there is hardly Canada being bratty. At the same time, I don't think Bush's welcome in Canada was fair, or representative of Canadians. While I intensly dislike Bush and his policies, I feel that the States and Canada are indeed best friends.

 

Feel free to post your two cents, within reason. For god's sake, please no "Fuck the States" or a "We'll boycott maple syrup, eh?"

[Guest MikeSC]

I doubt the US gov't honestly cares. We recognize, and have for years, that some countries simply use some semblance of anti-Americanism as a political ploy. The US doesn't really care all that much and Canada recognizes that the US is too valuable to completely cut ties with.

-=Mike

[CanadianGuitarist]

Interesting point(and yes, fair).

 

At the same time, I think the U.S won't cut ties with us, as Canada does a lot indeed for the States. I don't say that to be self serving, but I sincerely feel it true.

[Vern Gagne]

They produce quality pro wrestling, comedians, beer, Wayne Gretzky, and RUSH.

 

Thank you Canada.

[Guest MikeSC]

Interesting point(and yes, fair).

 

At the same time, I think the U.S won't cut ties with us, as Canada does a lot indeed for the States. I don't say that to be self serving, but I sincerely feel it true.

The US has no intention of ever cutting ties to Canada, if for no other reason than we do have the largest undefended border in the world with them and it's in both parties best interests to work together.

 

Besides, we have other interests there. Let's just say that if the Quebecois ever actually do secede from Canada, they're going to learn what happens when we REALLY don't approve of that move.

-=Mike

...Suffice to say, no matter how the vote goes, a split would never, ever happen as long as the US exists...

[CanadianGuitarist]

They're not going anywhere. They managed a 40% oui with the most charismatic man in the history of Canadian politics, save Trudeau. Granted that was 20 years ago, but Bernard Landry, who currently runs the PQ, hates literally everything in existence.

[Kahran Ramsus]

I'm just pissed that I have to pay for a passport just to get into the states as of next year.

[Hogan Made Wrestling]

People like to pick up any semblance of USA-Canada tension and run with it, totally overstating its relevance. In the meantime, billions of dollars in goods are flowing across the border in both directions.

[The Czech Republic]

I have nothing against Canada and think the US and Canada should cooperate and respect each other.

 

[kkktookmybabyaway]

Fuck Canada...

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

I really didn't like Quebec at all. Nova Scotians and those eastern island weirdasses were ok, but fuck a bunch of Quebec.

[Jobber of the Week]

I don't think there's any issues with US/Canada relations unless the Canadians have some, but since so many of the sole remaining factories of US-based companies available in North America are sitting up there, they're probably not complaining too hard.

 

Chretien somehow made it cool to be a super-hippie for about 2 years, pissing off the Bill O'Reilly crowd, but I don't think there was anything behind it other than grandstanding. The US started getting more and more and more conservative when it came to personal liberty and more and more puritan about it's social beliefs, and almost as a reaction Canada started trying harder to realize a much more liberal ideal of government. I don't think it really did anything, though, other than make people like me wish we were born on that side of the line.

 

But then it would be really cold, so nevermind.

[Guest Cerebus]

Wow AoO pretty much wrote my response before I typed it. Several years ago my family and I went to both Nova Scotia and Montreal. The reception we got at Nova Scotia was far and away better than Montreal, and after 9/11 I've been told it got only worse. Ever since, we've taken an annual trip to Nova Scotia and love every minute of it. Besides for, some point in the future, going to Israel and Palestine I have no intention of ever spending a dime outside the US except in Canada.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Well, I figured since the first five or so people I talked to were asswipes, I'd go with the "when in rome" philosophy and started being a merde-tete first. It wasn't just the really french types that were fuckers, either.

 

Those island folks though..gave me the heebie-jeebies while being really nice..

[Stephen Joseph]

I think of Canada as the 51st state that was just too damn cold.

[Kahran Ramsus]

Well, I figured since the first five or so people I talked to were asswipes, I'd go with the "when in rome" philosophy and started being a merde-tete first. It wasn't just the really french types that were fuckers, either.

 

Those island folks though..gave me the heebie-jeebies while being really nice..

Quebecers are notorious for being assholes. Even Ontarians don't like them.

[cbacon]

Relevant article (although a few weeks old): Canada slaps sanctions on US over softwood lumber

 

Canada has turned up the pressure on its largest trading partner, slapping rarely used sanctions on the United States to force an end to an internationally condemned trade law.

 

The stakes are high: if Ottawa fails in this fight against the U.S. law known as the Byrd amendment, Canadian softwood lumber producers stand to lose more than $4 billion in duties paid so far in the longrunning trade dispute.

 

Even worse, the Byrd amendment would then hand all those Canadian payments over to their American lumber competitors.

 

To pressure Washington, Ottawa announced Thursday it will slap a 15 per cent surtax on cigarettes, oysters, live swine and some fish imports from the U.S., effective May 1.

 

Similar action is coming from the 25-member European Union, which - along with several other countries including Japan, India and Brazil - are fighting the U.S. law.

 

In Whistler, B.C., Prime Minister Paul Martin said Canada had no other options.

 

"The Byrd amendment is just simply the ultimate in protectionism and runs counter to everything that the various rounds have built up and we're not going to accept it," Martin said.

 

Canada's sanctions will hit about $14 million in imports - a tiny sum compared with the billions in softwood duties that Washington has been collecting for four years.

 

But trade watchers applauded the move as sending a powerful signal, especially since Canada so seldom slaps sanctions on its largest trading partner.

 

"It's a rare thing and I think it will be seen as a significant event on the other side of the border," said Carl Grenier, president of the Quebec-based Free Trade Lumber Council, representing hard-hit softwood producers.

 

"So this is a very useful announcement for the federal government to make."

 

After years of fruitless lobbying the U.S. to revoke the Byrd amendment, first passed in 2000, Canada has no other choice, said Trade Minister Jim Peterson.

 

"I think this is a strong message that we're all sending to the United States that the international rules, those of the WTO (World Trade Organization), must be respected," Peterson told reporters in Toronto.

 

Ottawa particularly targeted states that have been strong supporters of the Byrd amendment, such as North Carolina and its tobacco industry, Peterson added.

 

The sanctions don't signal any kind of breakdown in the close relationship with the U.S., destination for 85 per cent of Canada's exports, said Perrin Beatty, chief executive of Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters.

 

"I don't think Canada was left with any choice, we have to find a means of convincing (U.S.) Congress to respect the rulings of the WTO," Beatty said in an interview.

 

Trade department officials couldn't recall the last time Canada retaliated against the U.S., but said it was likely in the early 1990s in a dispute over beer.

 

Do two wrongs make a right? In this case, I say yes. It's a symbolic response, but at this point, all we (Canadians) have left. The byrd amendment has been ruled illegal again and again. At least we're not bending over and the Liberals are showing some balls.

 

link

[Red Baron]

I'm just pissed that I have to pay for a passport just to get into the states as of next year.

Agreed, especially living 30 minutes from the border to Buffalo, I don't think its right for Canadian citizens who have lived in Canada all their lives to show a passport to be able to watch a Football/Hockey game or a concert, or even shopping.

 

Does Canadians ask Americans if they need passports to come to Canada?

[Guest Vitamin X]

Ah, you guys are JUST learning that we're paranoid fuckers?

[kkktookmybabyaway]

I think of Canada as the 51st state that was just too damn cold.

And Alaska isn't?

 

Good thing you're an economist because you would suck at teaching geography...

[elite]

I really didn't like Quebec at all. Nova Scotians and those eastern island weirdasses were ok, but fuck a bunch of Quebec.

Out of curiosity, which island are you referring to?

[Kahran Ramsus]

Does Canadians ask Americans if they need passports to come to Canada?

 

We are going to be in response to this. Its not like we had any choice.

 

Also, Americans going to Canada will now need to show passports to be able to get back into the US.

[Jobber of the Week]

Bush backs off passports for border travel

 

Plans requiring passports from people entering the United States don’t pass muster with President Bush, who has ordered a review of this border security effort amid fears it would impede legal travel from Canada, Mexico and other U.S. neighbors.

 

The president said Thursday he was surprised by the proposed rules announced last week by the State and Homeland Security departments.

 

“When I first read that in the newspaper about the need to have passports, particularly today’s crossings that take place, about a million for instance in the state of Texas, I said, ‘What’s going on here?”’ Bush said when asked about the rules at a meeting of the American Society of Newspaper Editors.

 

“I thought there was a better way to expedite the legal flow of traffic and people,” he said.

 

Bush, a former Texas governor, said he has ordered a review of the rules. “If people have to have a passport, it’s going to disrupt the honest flow of traffic. I think there’s some flexibility in the law, and that’s what we’re checking out right now,” the president said.

(More)

 

So, wait, does he read newspapers now or not? Stop flip-flopping, Mr. President. The people elected you because you mean what you say and say what you mean, even when it's utterly stupid and possible to get us all killed.

[Vyce]

I doubt the US gov't honestly cares. We recognize, and have for years, that some countries simply use some semblance of anti-Americanism as a political ploy. The US doesn't really care all that much and Canada recognizes that the US is too valuable to completely cut ties with.

-=Mike

I think this is about right. I think most of it is a political ploy.

 

But there is that whole "Canadians have identity issues" thing, in which I think many times Canadians try to be the yin to our yang just to try and desperately distinguish themselves from us in some way.

 

As for the passport thing, what's the big deal? I wouldn't have a problem presenting a passport to get into or out of the country.

[Hogan Made Wrestling]

I doubt the US gov't honestly cares. We recognize, and have for years, that some countries simply use some semblance of anti-Americanism as a political ploy. The US doesn't really care all that much and Canada recognizes that the US is too valuable to completely cut ties with.

          -=Mike

I think this is about right. I think most of it is a political ploy.

 

But there is that whole "Canadians have identity issues" thing, in which I think many times Canadians try to be the yin to our yang just to try and desperately distinguish themselves from us in some way.

 

As for the passport thing, what's the big deal? I wouldn't have a problem presenting a passport to get into or out of the country.

My main issues with it are:

 

1. the cost of applying for a passport

 

2. the relatively quick (for the cost) expiry date

 

3. the length of the application procedure

 

If a passport cost less, or even better cost the same but had about double the life it does now, I wouldn't care all that much. But having to spend a good chunk of cash every 5 years is a bit tiresome.

[Slayer]

US Passports are 10 years

 

And they don't cost that much. No more than $100 for a new one, and $50 or so for renewal

[kkktookmybabyaway]

All the bitches whining about this whole passport business (sans my TSM brethern, of course) will be the same ones crying "Why didn't the POTUS do this sooner?" when someone crosses from the Canada border and blows up Boston...

[Jobber of the Week]

All the bitches whining about this whole passport business (sans my TSM brethern, of course) will be the same ones crying "Why didn't the POTUS do this sooner?" when someone crosses from the Canada border and blows up Boston...

Now now now, it'll be NYC. And the Boston Globe headline will look like this:

 

TWO HUB MEN DIE IN BLAST

New York also destroyed

[Hogan Made Wrestling]

US Passports are 10 years

 

And they don't cost that much. No more than $100 for a new one, and $50 or so for renewal

That's not bad at all then. In Canada they last 5 years and cost a lot more.

[Highland]

All the bitches whining about this whole passport business (sans my TSM brethern, of course) will be the same ones crying "Why didn't the POTUS do this sooner?" when someone crosses from the Canada border and blows up Boston...

That someone will of course have lived and trained in the US for years, but a certain junior Senator from New York will point the finger at the border. And not the safe southern border where thousands of cheap workers flood across each year.