We got Pope smoke...

[Guest MikeSC]

Thing is, most people who complain that the Pope is too conservative tend to be agnostic or atheist.

 

Not all, but most.

 

And, if I was the Catholic Church, I wouldn't pick a Pope based on the whims of the young, atheist set.

-=Mike

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Thing is, most people who complain that the Pope is too conservative tend to be agnostic or atheist.

Does that mean they can not point out the absurdity?

 

This is not Islam, this isn't 12th century living in some regions clashing with 21st century thinking in other regions (i.e. Muslims in America and other countries who DON'T support the jihad.)

 

This is a religion that is not only so steeped in old thinking that much of their American following clashes with the beliefs, but a religion in which one old guy wearing the robes of authority can deem something and make it so.

 

Eventually, hopefully, the robes will go around the old man that says, "Hey, you know what? Let's let priests marry, it won't do that much harm."

[Guest MikeSC]

Because the problems of the Cathlic Church could be resolved by marriage.

 

I know it's common for heterosexual men, when not able to have sex with women, to opt for young boys instead.

-=Mike

[Vern Gagne 0]

They can. As a Cathlic, I don't really like to hear a non-catholics...especially non-believer, say we need to have married priests, allow women into the priesthood. The church doctrine has been in place for nearly two thousand years. It's not something that is supposed to undergo dramatic changes. Certainly not allowing priest to marry...you risk men going into the priesthood for a career other than a divine calling. Not that all priests are in that boat, the pedophiles are certainly not.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

They can. As a Cathlic, I don't really like to hear a non-catholics...especially non-believer, say we need to have married priests, allow women into the priesthood. The church doctrine has been in place for nearly two thousand years. It's not something that is supposed to undergo dramatic changes. Certainly not allowing priest to marry...you risk men going into the priesthood for a career other than a divine calling. Not that all priests are in that boat, the pedophiles are certainly not.

Allow me to tweak some words here:

 

 

They can. As a Muslim, I don't really like to hear a non-muslim...especially non-believers, say we need to reject jihad, refuse to respect martyrs. The word of Mohammad has been in place for nearly two thousand years. It's not something that is supposed to undergo dramatic changes. Certainly not allowing women out of the burqas...you risk men going to temple for a reason other than a divine calling.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

The only thing I have against the Catholic Chruch not allowing priests to get married and accepting women into the priesthood, is that if they were so against it, why didn't they do anything about it until the ultra-conservative movement of the 11th Century? Even the abbott who precided over the famed Synod of Whitby was a woman.

 

I'm not Catholic, so your Church can do whatever you want. I'm just saying. We Anglicans don't have any problem with married priests.

[The Czech Republic 0]

They can. As a Cathlic, I don't really like to hear a non-catholics...especially non-believer, say we need to have married priests, allow women into the priesthood. The church doctrine has been in place for nearly two thousand years. It's not something that is supposed to undergo dramatic changes. Certainly not allowing priest to marry...you risk men going into the priesthood for a career other than a divine calling. Not that all priests are in that boat, the pedophiles are certainly not.

Allow me to tweak some words here:

 

 

They can. As a Muslim, I don't really like to hear a non-muslim...especially non-believers, say we need to reject jihad, refuse to respect martyrs. The word of Mohammad has been in place for nearly two thousand years. It's not something that is supposed to undergo dramatic changes. Certainly not allowing women out of the burqas...you risk men going to temple for a reason other than a divine calling.

And Hitler

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

Allowing the ordination of women or allowing priests to marry would address one of the massive problems facing the Catholic church now: a tremendous shortage of priests. Whether you think that would water down the faith is a related question. As someone raised Catholic but unable to care about all the outdated minutiae, it seems to me that bolstering the priesthood is a greater priority.

[Slayer 0]

Many Catholics Not Ready to Let Go of Pope John Paul

 

To get an idea of the challenges facing Pope Benedict, look no further than the Vatican City gift shops still gleefully peddling images of his predecessor.

 

More than three weeks after his death, Pope John Paul survives as the top selling Vatican souvenir -- his smiling face posthumously adorning posters, pendants and jewelry boxes, the same way it did during his 26-year pontificate.

 

Pilgrims still mostly pick postcards of the photogenic Pole to say hello to loved ones back home, instead of sending snapshots of the bookish Benedict, whose election last week made him the first German pontiff in many centuries.

 

"We're selling more Pope John Paul II than Pope Benedict XVI," said Cristina de la Cruz, working behind the counter at a shop near Pope Benedict's former residence.

 

"I think it's too soon for people to move on."

 

The cardinals who elected Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger a week ago clearly sought continuity. In one of the swiftest conclaves in a century, they picked the Vatican's doctrinal watchdog for the past 23 years to lead the world's 1.1 billion Catholics.

 

Seen by critics as a hard-nosed conservative and hailed by allies as a humble intellectual, Benedict is not expected to lead the same commanding performances as John Paul, a former actor who reveled in the spotlight.

 

Preferring the quiet life, Benedict even told pilgrims on Monday that he had begged God not to make him Pope and compared his election to facing the "guillotine."

 

PHOTOGENIC POLE VS SHY BAVARIAN

 

Since emerging from the conclave, Benedict's public appearances have appeared measured, and his facial expressions seem to wander between excitement and stage fright.

 

"He looks stunned most of the time," said Henriatte de Bellegarde, a woman from Long Island, NY, standing outside a gift shop near St. Peter's Square. "There's sort of the 'new king comes, but everybody liked the old king better'."

 

"That can change, though."

 

Francesco Santamaria, a 56-year-old Spaniard, said he expected it to take years for loyal Catholics to stop looking back to John Paul and wholly look ahead toward the shy Bavarian Benedict.

 

At the age of 78, Benedict is already the oldest man elected Pope since the early 18th century, making it unlikely he will have a quarter-century to build the same kind of following.

 

"The Germans live a long time, though," Santamaria quipped.

 

Most pilgrims visiting St. Peter's Square say it is not so much that Benedict has large shoes to fill -- but that the Catholic world has to get used to Benedict filling them.

 

For many, it's just a matter of time.

 

"Benedict may not have the same warmth of John Paul. But I like him. He has impressed me," said Italian mother Maria Minghi, bringing her two children to visit St. Peter's Basilica.

 

"We have to get used to him, that's all."

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

I thought I heard/read that priests used to be able to get married in the early church days.

[Guest MikeSC]

They can. As a Cathlic, I don't really like to hear a non-catholics...especially non-believer, say we need to have married priests, allow women into the priesthood. The church doctrine has been in place for nearly two thousand years. It's not something that is supposed to undergo dramatic changes. Certainly not allowing priest to marry...you risk men going into the priesthood for a career other than a divine calling. Not that all priests are in that boat, the pedophiles are certainly not.

Allow me to tweak some words here:

 

 

They can. As a Muslim, I don't really like to hear a non-muslim...especially non-believers, say we need to reject jihad, refuse to respect martyrs. The word of Mohammad has been in place for nearly two thousand years. It's not something that is supposed to undergo dramatic changes. Certainly not allowing women out of the burqas...you risk men going to temple for a reason other than a divine calling.

Considering that Catholics don't slaughter those who speak ill of the Church --- no, it's not really comparable.

-=Mike

[The Ill One 0]

Right. Been there, done that.

[Vern Gagne 0]

They can. As a Cathlic, I don't really like to hear a non-catholics...especially non-believer, say we need to have married priests, allow women into the priesthood. The church doctrine has been in place for nearly two thousand years. It's not something that is supposed to undergo dramatic changes. Certainly not allowing priest to marry...you risk men going into the priesthood for a career other than a divine calling. Not that all priests are in that boat, the pedophiles are certainly not.

Allow me to tweak some words here:

 

 

They can. As a Muslim, I don't really like to hear a non-muslim...especially non-believers, say we need to reject jihad, refuse to respect martyrs. The word of Mohammad has been in place for nearly two thousand years. It's not something that is supposed to undergo dramatic changes. Certainly not allowing women out of the burqas...you risk men going to temple for a reason other than a divine calling.

Don't even compare martyrdom and jihad to not allowing married priests and female priests.

 

What I don't agree with his, the call for married and female priests as alot to do with the child molestation scandal.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Considering that Catholics don't slaughter those who speak ill of the Church --- no, it's not really comparable.

-=Mike

You missed the point, I'm afraid, although I kind of figured that would happen.

 

I wasn't comparing marrying priests to blowing up innocents, of course I'm not that stupid. I'm saying that it's the same lazy "it's been this way for centuries, why should it be any different now?" excuse used in both situations.

 

It's a bad excuse and it holds no water. Just because something has been that way for a long time doesn't mean it's less shitty now than it was if it just started two days ago.

[Guest MikeSC]

Considering that Catholics don't slaughter those who speak ill of the Church --- no, it's not really comparable.

          -=Mike

You missed the point, I'm afraid, although I kind of figured that would happen.

 

I wasn't comparing marrying priests to blowing up innocents, of course I'm not that stupid. I'm saying that it's the same lazy "it's been this way for centuries, why should it be any different now?" excuse used in both situations.

 

It's a bad excuse and it holds no water. Just because something has been that way for a long time doesn't mean it's less shitty now than it was if it just started two days ago.

No, you made an asinine comparison and I called you for it.

 

There's a world of difference in institutions that have been around for centuries.

 

Marriage and slavery have both been around for centuries.

 

Do you not see a slight moral difference in them?

-=Mike

...When the Church begins advocating the mass slaughter of people, then we can talk. And, UNLIKE the Cult of Death, the Catholic Church has changed dramatically over the centuries...

[Vyce 0]

I don't think the comparison is that assinine. I think it's quite relevant, actually. Catholicism is a good deal more.......progressive than a religion like Islam, but that doesn't change the fact that many Church policies are entirely anachronistic and could use revising.

[Guest Brian]

Because the problems of the Cathlic Church could be resolved by marriage.

 

I know it's common for heterosexual men, when not able to have sex with women, to opt for young boys instead.

-=Mike

The man made "Thriller". You could cut him some slack.

[Masked Man of Mystery 0]

The Bible I was raised with(the Catholic one, don't know about other Christian faiths) includes both an Old Testament and a New Testament. Both are considered the word of God. I should hope I remember some of the stuff I was raised with(8 years in Catholic schools), even if I'm recessed now.

[The Czech Republic 0]

I don't think the comparison is that assinine. I think it's quite relevant, actually. Catholicism is a good deal more.......progressive than a religion like Islam, but that doesn't change the fact that many Church policies are entirely anachronistic and could use revising.

It takes a comparison to Islam to call Catholicism a progressive denomination. I love it.

[PLAGIARISM! 0]

Different muslims interpret the holy texts in different ways, just as with the bible. They're not all maniacal extremists.

[Masked Man of Mystery 0]

Different muslims interpret the holy texts in different ways, just as with the bible. They're not all maniacal extremists.

Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner in the 13th page by being absolutely correct, PLAGIARISM!

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Catholics are more progressive, or at least more open minded, than most Protestant denominations.

 

Most evangelical protestant denominations like Baptist and Mennonite to name a few, are pretty old school. Won't be willing to accept evolution, look at everything to be absolutely literal, etc.

 

Of course, Catholicism isn't progressive at all, but religion is not supposed to be progressive, it's supposed to be truth that stands the test of time and doesn't change with popular opinion. In a day and age where everything is looked upon as discriminatory, the Catholic church would probably be best suited not to hear what everyone has to tell them. Of course, due to the way people have perverted the religion, sadly that means that it has been forced to be progressive, because it was wrong about a few things before. It shouldn't have to change its stance on certain things after the reformation, the things that caused the reformation like all the corruption within the church should not have been there in the first place.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

So what brought you back?...

[Jobber of the Week 0]

The Bible I was raised with(the Catholic one, don't know about other Christian faiths) includes both an Old Testament and a New Testament. Both are considered the word of God. I should hope I remember some of the stuff I was raised with(8 years in Catholic schools), even if I'm recessed now.

The Old Testament, in my opinion, and people may choose to disagree with this but whatever, is basically a Jewish history book. Not only is it unclear who put pen to paper and wrote most of it, but it seems to be incorrect when compared to both what we know as well as the New Testament.

 

The obvious reason to be suspicious is the seven days of creation and the 6,000 year old Earth and so on, but even what the Old Testament says about God is very different. In the Old Testament, God is the deliverer for Jews, and conquers their enemies. In the New Testament, God sends his son to Earth, and Jesus tells tales of a loving God who waits to welcome all believers into his kingdom. One still must be careful of who wrote what, but it traditionally emphasizes the more positive aspects of the religion.

 

In short, it's never been the people that preach the New Testament that turn people like me off from religion, but the people preaching the Old Testament. Enough with the whole "repent before God smites you all" stuff, already.

[Vyce 0]

I don't think the comparison is that assinine.  I think it's quite relevant, actually.  Catholicism is a good deal more.......progressive than a religion like Islam, but that doesn't change the fact that many Church policies are entirely anachronistic and could use revising.

It takes a comparison to Islam to call Catholicism a progressive denomination. I love it.

Kinda fucked up, isn't it.

 

Catholics are more progressive, or at least more open minded, than most Protestant denominations.

 

Bullshit.

 

Protestants are the ones who are becoming more open-minded and progressive these days. Why, some of them even allow women to be ministers and, *gasp* gays to be clergy and bishops.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Catholics are more progressive, or at least more open minded, than most Protestant denominations.

 

Bullshit.

 

Protestants are the ones who are becoming more open-minded and progressive these days. Why, some of them even allow women to be ministers and, *gasp* gays to be clergy and bishops.

Actually this is bullshit. But that's the problem with saying protestants, there are so many different denominations within, that there is no such thing as just being a protestant. With that being said, most protestant denominations don't agree with any of the stuff you said. Most have a harsher stance on homosexuality, don't want women in leadership period, believe in the BIble literally and refuse to acknowledge the possibility of evolution, etc. The most narrow-minded aspect to me is the fact that they state that only one who is a Christian will enter Heaven. If that's not the definition of "narrow", I don't know what is.

 

Too many people think of being progressive as being a good thing.

[The Czech Republic 0]

Catholics are more progressive, or at least more open minded, than most Protestant denominations.

 

Most evangelical protestant denominations like Baptist and Mennonite to name a few, are pretty old school. Won't be willing to accept evolution, look at everything to be absolutely literal, etc.

Most? You named two, and the Mennonites compose a FRACTION of Protestantism, at least in contemporary North America. Methodists, Presbyterians, Episcopalians, and Lutherans, all considerably bigger denominations, tend to be open-minded when it comes to interpreting Scripture, as well as not having the same rigid church doctrine of celibate male priests. I mean, Catholics are the ones who believe that the wine is literally the blood of Christ.

 

As for accepting evolution, that was actually a pretty huge deal for the pope to admit it, I think, just as with the sun being the center of the universe. Progressive Catholics!

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Well, I have to admit that most of the Protestant Christians I've come to know have been of the Evangelical type, so they are what comprise the "Religious Right" for the most part. Represented by guys like Pat Robertson and James Dobson, it's hard to come off as more open-minded than Catholics.

 

Like I said before, being progressive about certain things may be a bad thing because much of the time your policies are dictated by the changes displayed in pop culture.

 

But yeah, which are the denominations that are more open to contextual interpretation of the Bible, and homosexuality not being the most evil thing ever?

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Also I don't understand why the Single Priest thing is what makes Catholics crazy. They are called to serve the Church "like a bride". I don't agree with it, but it's not like it makes them horribly traditional or something.

[The Czech Republic 0]

Well, I have to admit that most of the Protestant Christians I've come to know have been of the Evangelical type, so they are what comprise the "Religious Right" for the most part. Represented by guys like Pat Robertson and James Dobson, it's hard to come off as more open-minded than Catholics.

 

Like I said before, being progressive about certain things may be a bad thing because much of the time your policies are dictated by the changes displayed in pop culture.

 

But yeah, which are the denominations that are more open to contextual interpretation of the Bible, and homosexuality not being the most evil thing ever?

Well that's the thing. Pat Robertson represents a very minute subset of Protestant America. Most regular churchgoers think he's a loon. Compared to Pentecostals and Southern Baptists, the Methodists and Presbyterians are like social clubs.

 

As for which denominations favor more interpretation and accept homosexuality, I'd say pretty much the vast majority of mainline Protestant churches. It's hard to gauge, because a lot of these churches are individual entities and not involved in a worldwide hierarchy like the Roman Catholic Church.