Anyone else miss the "good old days" of 2000?

[Jingus 0]

Just picture it:

 

The WWF had Chris Fucking Benoit and the rest of the WCW jumpers tearing up the scene, HHH was the greatest fucking wrestler alive, Kurt Angle was gonna become the greatest fucking wrestler alive, Mick Foley wrote damn good books and had damn fine retirement matches, Shane McMahon regularly tempted death for our pleasure, Edge and Lita weren't fucking, the Hardys were still amazing, the Dudleys were still cool, even Brian Fucking Christopher was involved in something incredibly entertaining.

 

Aside from that, you had:

 

-WCW. Yeah, it sucked. But watching it fail at EVERYTHING was goddamned entertaining, and there were some good matches hidden in there too. There was no darker day than when we woke up and realized it was gone.

 

-ECW. Yeah, it kinda sucked around this period too. But, shit, at least it was STILL THERE and gave us awesome cruiserweight & hardcore action that the indies are still copying today. and gave lots of wrestlers a payday when they otherwise would've had to get real jobs.

 

-And then you had everything else. The indies, where the ECWA Super 8 Cup was a big deal, Scoot Andrews was a "good worker", and there were these guys like Christopher Daniels and AJ Styles who you kinda heard of. American fans caught in the jetlag between continents hadn't yet realized that Japanese wrestling was getting really bad. Dumbass ideas like Women Of Wrestling not only got a TV show and a PPV, but was somehow bizarrely entertaining and not completely worthless.

 

Ah, for the days when the economy was good and the Twin Towers still stood...

[iliketurtles 0]

It's going to take a while to have the days of 2000 again. Amazing stuff.

[Guest MikeSC]

I've said, for a while, that the WWF in 2000 was the best company I'd ever seen. An insanely good company with good tag matches, great undercard matches, and top-notch ME's.

-=Mike

[ISportsFan 0]

2000 WWF was unreal. Everything, except the brainfart of King of the Ring, was outstanding, until Unforgiven. The unsatisfactory end of the love triangle angle killed the momentum the company had, storyline-wise, practically until this day. No Mercy had 2 great main events, Survivor Series was kind of there, and Armageddon was the definition of a one-match show. 2001 was a bunch of great wrestling for the first half of the year (until Benoit went out for his neck surgery and the Invasion started), but the angles were just not very good after Unforgiven 2000 had HHH win over Angle and keep Stephanie.

 

Jason

[Guest MikeSC]

2000 WWF was unreal. Everything, except the brainfart of King of the Ring, was outstanding, until Unforgiven. The unsatisfactory end of the love triangle angle killed the momentum the company had, storyline-wise, practically until this day. No Mercy had 2 great main events, Survivor Series was kind of there, and Armageddon was the definition of a one-match show. 2001 was a bunch of great wrestling for the first half of the year (until Benoit went out for his neck surgery and the Invasion started), but the angles were just not very good after Unforgiven 2000 had HHH win over Angle and keep Stephanie.

 

Jason

I actually thought SSeries 2000 was the bad show of the year. KOTR was blah and Unforgiven was actually pretty decent.

-=Mike

[Prime Time Andrew Doyle 0]

I actually thought SSeries 2000 was the bad show of the year. KOTR was blah and Unforgiven was actually pretty decent.

-=Mike

 

Was that the show that Benoit dropped HHH when he was in the car on top of the forklift?

 

I think what made 2000 so good was the opening four PPV's of the year. The ME's had unbelievable heat and everybody worked their asses off to create the success

[Guest Hass of Pain]

[MARTYEWR 0]

I actually thought SSeries 2000 was the bad show of the year. KOTR was blah and Unforgiven was actually pretty decent.

-=Mike

 

Was that the show that Benoit dropped HHH when he was in the car on top of the forklift?

 

I think what made 2000 so good was the opening four PPV's of the year. The ME's had unbelievable heat and everybody worked their asses off to create the success

Actually, it would've been interesting if Benoit had done the forklift dropping to HHH. As silly as it would be, it would also be pushing a new star.

 

(BTW, it was Austin playing forklift guy.)

[The Amazing Rando 0]

I own SSlam 2000 on DVD (mainly for TLC and Shane killing himself) but going back to see the Main Event, which was fine considering Angle's concussion, makes me very sad to see that THAT was how they ended such a great angle.

 

Steph should have ended up with Angle. There should have been no other option. HHH should have lost Steph and his chance at the title, whether Angle or Rock won it. Angle should have AT LEAST came out on top of HHH at that moment.

[Vern Gagne 0]

They did all of this while Austin was out with the neck injury. Personally, I don't think that's a coincidence. Everyone in company, I think wanted to step up and prove they could succed without Stone Cold.

[Guest MikeSC]

They did all of this while Austin was out with the neck injury. Personally, I don't think that's a coincidence. Everyone in company, I think wanted to step up and prove they could succed without Stone Cold.

I honestly think it was because Kreski was just a really, really good writer. He figured out which guys worked well together (hell, Rikishi v Venis was shockingly decent) and gave them a reason to fight.

 

Odd, since he, by all accounts, didn't actually like wrestling.

-=Mike

[Vern Gagne 0]

They did all of this while Austin was out with the neck injury. Personally, I don't think that's a coincidence. Everyone in company, I think wanted to step up and prove they could succed without Stone Cold.

I honestly think it was because Kreski was just a really, really good writer. He figured out which guys worked well together (hell, Rikishi v Venis was shockingly decent) and gave them a reason to fight.

 

Odd, since he, by all accounts, didn't actually like wrestling.

-=Mike

Kreski's departure equaled the worsening of the product.

[Guest MikeSC]

They did all of this while Austin was out with the neck injury. Personally, I don't think that's a coincidence. Everyone in company, I think wanted to step up and prove they could succed without Stone Cold.

I honestly think it was because Kreski was just a really, really good writer. He figured out which guys worked well together (hell, Rikishi v Venis was shockingly decent) and gave them a reason to fight.

 

Odd, since he, by all accounts, didn't actually like wrestling.

-=Mike

Kreski's departure equaled the worsening of the product.

I think SSeries was the first PPV he wasn't involved with that year. So, yes, it is proven.

-=Mike

[ISportsFan 0]

I didn't think Unforgiven was bad, but the love triange ending was what led to the downfall (in my opinion) -- of course, combined with Kreski. Probably both of those are related.

 

Survivor Series did suck, Mike, you're right. King of the Ring sucked too. The main event had a world title change when Rock pinned Vince McMahon, a crappy DX/Dudleyz table match, and a whole lot of nonsensical booking in the tournament itself which led to bad matches throughout the night.

 

Jason

[Guest MikeSC]

I didn't think Unforgiven was bad, but the love triange ending was what led to the downfall (in my opinion) -- of course, combined with Kreski. Probably both of those are related.

 

Survivor Series did suck, Mike, you're right. King of the Ring sucked too. The main event had a world title change when Rock pinned Vince McMahon, a crappy DX/Dudleyz table match, and a whole lot of nonsensical booking in the tournament itself which led to bad matches throughout the night.

 

Jason

I thought Jericho v Angle and Eddy v Venis were pretty good matches and I thought the ME 6-man was not too bad. I actually liked the Tag Title 4-way --- until it ended up being Too Cool v C & E. KOTR was not great by any stretch, but I think it seems worse than it was simply because of how insanely good the shows that year were.

-=Mike

[Jingus 0]

uh... who's Kreski?

[BUTT 0]

Chris Kreski, former WWF writer. I guess he was Russo's replacement, and he was head writer for most of the WWF's awesome 2000. He left around November 2000 and they replaced him with Steph, who of course was more than qualified for the position. She grew up in the business!!

[BUTT 0]

I didn't think Unforgiven was bad, but the love triange ending was what led to the downfall (in my opinion) -- of course, combined with Kreski. Probably both of those are related.

 

Survivor Series did suck, Mike, you're right. King of the Ring sucked too. The main event had a world title change when Rock pinned Vince McMahon, a crappy DX/Dudleyz table match, and a whole lot of nonsensical booking in the tournament itself which led to bad matches throughout the night.

 

Jason

I thought Jericho v Angle and Eddy v Venis were pretty good matches and I thought the ME 6-man was not too bad. I actually liked the Tag Title 4-way --- until it ended up being Too Cool v C & E. KOTR was not great by any stretch, but I think it seems worse than it was simply because of how insanely good the shows that year were.

-=Mike

KOTR wasn't awful, but I think people were let down because the brackets provided so many great potential matches. We could have seen Benoit/Guerrero in the semis and Benoit/Jericho or Guerrero/Jericho in the finals. In hindsight, it's probably best that Angle won the tournament, but at the time, it was a letdown.

 

By the way, I want to know why everyone feels that the only way the HHH/Angle storyline should have gone was Steph turning on Angle. I know that it seems like a logical step in the storyline since that's what we've come to expect from wrestling, but in real life women don't turn on their lovers and hook up with their hated rivals with the alarming frequency that they do in professional wrestling. I'm not saying that they should or shouldn't have had Steph turn on HHH, but I think we need to consider that maybe the angle wasn't fucked up that bad. Besides which, HHH is awful as a face (there's just something about his character that's very unlikable, and that's not a knock on him personally, it's just that the HHH character naturally seems like a bad guy), and in the ring he's much better as a heel controlling the offense during a match.

[Guest jm29195]

What were the ppv's of the year in 2000? I'd say Backlash for WWE, with awesome Rock/HHH, Benoit/Jericho, Malenko/Hotty matches, Fall Brawl for WCW with great Steiner/Goldberg, Cruiserweight and the Filthy Animals/Thrillers match that would have been so much better without the abrupt injury finish...

And Anarchy Rulz for ECW, although their best card of the year was two nighter at the Ballroom in August with the tag tournament and Cornio/Credible....

 

It's kinda sad looking back at Fall Brawl especially, to see that WCW still had the talent to make a show great, they were just so often shackled by shitty booking and gimmicks that they weren't given a chance to shine that often.....

[Guest DeputyHawk]

Don't forget Patterson-Brisco went towards making KOTR 2000 so shitty. NEVER forget.

[landy1987 0]

I just recieved this first 12 weeks of Raws, Smackdowns and Heats from 2000, and from what I have watched these are really excellent. (Back then I only saw the occasional WWF TV shows and so some of this is new to me)

[Guest DVD Spree]

What I miss most about that time, apart from the great product, of course, was just being able to enjoy it with my friends.

 

I had a few casual fan friends who drifted in and out of wrestling over the years, and when it got hot again during Attitude, it was so awesome hanging otu and building our Friday nights around RAW and Nitro (both shows were delayed until Fridays in the UK). We'd spend all fucking evening playing WCW/nWo Revenge and eating pizza, then we'd chill the fuck out and spend four hours or so flipping between the shows and catching Thunder afterwards (sometimes).

 

Good fucking times – no asshole will watch wrestling with me these days, not that I really want to watch it either.

[strummer 0]

Kreski was quoted as saying he didn't even like wrestling. In an interview after he was released Kevin Kelly talked about he would talk to members of the creative team on Tuesdays and say "Did you see the show last night" and they would respond "No, I don't like wrestling"

[Guest hhheld_down]

after seeing JR/HHH from RAW this past monday, I desperately miss those times. Its really kinda sad how bad things have gotten (with some exceptions) in the past 5 years. I still dont get how they dropped the ball soo bad.

[Slayer 0]

What I miss most about that time, apart from the great product, of course, was just being able to enjoy it with my friends.

Same here. From May '99 to May '01 I roomed with my best friend and we rarely missed RAW and Nitro, including attending two live Nitros in Minneapolis. For most of '00 we watched almost every PPV with a core of co-worker/friends who were (or became) casual fans and a good time was had by all.

 

In May '01 my best friend took off for the Air Force and nothing was ever the same again in either my life or wrestling.

 

Coincidence? Hmm

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

By the way, I want to know why everyone feels that the only way the HHH/Angle storyline should have gone was Steph turning on Angle. I know that it seems like a logical step in the storyline since that's what we've come to expect from wrestling, but in real life women don't turn on their lovers and hook up with their hated rivals with the alarming frequency that they do in professional wrestling. I'm not saying that they should or shouldn't have had Steph turn on HHH, but I think we need to consider that maybe the angle wasn't fucked up that bad. Besides which, HHH is awful as a face (there's just something about his character that's very unlikable, and that's not a knock on him personally, it's just that the HHH character naturally seems like a bad guy), and in the ring he's much better as a heel controlling the offense during a match.

From the Meltzer survey that's posted somewhere in the WWE Lounge, when he invited wrestling fans over 30 to tell him why they'd stopped watching:

 

13: Kurt Angle/HHH/Stephanie storyline ending: More than any other angle, by far, this was named. Generally people liked the angle, some loved it, but the conclusion was in many people's minds, the beginning of the end. There was only one possible conclusion for long-term business, which was Stephanie ending up with Angle and HHH being the jilted babyface going for revenge. It's a storyline that almost everyone could relate to, which is why the build-up was such a huge success and got Angle over as a major heel. Instead, Stephanie sided with HHH, who beat Angle in their climactic match, and the feud ended flat just before it should have just started to draw money. This was the first example of where the egos of the people involved killed the most interesting angle in the company, not to mention that if Angle wasn’t such a great performer, he'd have ended up just like the Hardy’s positioning wise after his run with HHH. The company has yet to run another long-term angle anywhere close to as good as this, and this one was squandered before the payoff, and again, a lot of people trace the ending of their emotional bond with WWF angles to this.

 

Make no mistake about it; they messed this storyline up in a bad way.

[bobobrazil1984 0]

yep, definetly. I can personally track back the suckage of the product to then. And they spent over a full year building to it, and it was a good buildup. Without a doubt one of the worst creative decisions ever. At least until the year after, and then year after that and the year after that.

 

Oy it makes my head hurt. this company used to be so good and now is so shitty.

[Guest MikeSC]

I think the WWE has improved in many ways since they had their creative collapse in 2002 --- but 2000 was just insanely great. Even the horrid "Latino Heat" gimmick (which I loathed with a hot, hot hate) worked.

 

For me, though, as horrendous as the Angle v HHH angle ended --- it paled to Austin being Hunter's lackey in spite of being the World Champ. The two months following the outstanding WM X-7 show did some damage to the WWF that it never could repair.

-=Mike

...Yes, I know that part happened in 2001. 2001 actually had some damned good shows. 2002, though, was pretty abysmal...

[MillenniumMan831 0]

Didn't Steph make lil comments about Kurt's cuteness as early as late 1999 during Angle's undefeated streak? IIRC, HHH would book Angle against the odds just to mess w/ Steph a little bit (Angle vs. Mark Henry, Angle vs. Headbangers, ect). It wasn't meant to be serious at the time but it obviously escalated after the brunt of the Rock/HHH feud was done.

[Si82 0]

Don't forget Patterson-Brisco went towards making KOTR 2000 so shitty. NEVER forget.

How could anyone forget the sight of two pervy old men feeling each other up and attacking each other with sleazy props. *shudder*