One and Only Star Wars Geekiness Thread

[Kaertos 0]

I'd like to think that Windu had him on the ropes and could have killed him, if only because that really brings the scene into focus as the real turning point of the entire prequel series. If Windu kills Palpatine and Anakin stays on the light side of the Force, Vader doesn't exist, the Empire is never born and things are far, far different.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Of course if Windu kills Palpatine in front of Anakin then Anakin might still go bad from anger and grief that the one person that he thought could save Padme is dead. I bet Anakin would have killed Windu out of anger.

[SuperJerk 0]

I still say Palpatine was faking to lure Anakin in.

[Guest Fook]

I don't think Palpatine was completely faking. Yes, Windu could have killed him then, but he was just exaggerating his helplessness in order to get Anakin to help him.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

Palpatine went from grimacing in near death pain to sneaky smile in like a second. He was faking. Are you dumb?

[SuperJerk 0]

Thank you!

[Art Sandusky 0]

Palpatine went from grimacing in near death pain to sneaky smile in like a second.  He was faking.  Are you dumb?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey, a guy can smile momentarily to rejoice his plan coming to fruition. He knew he had Anakin at that point.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

Are you dumb?

 

No, but Palpatine would have to be if his plan was "I'll lay here, with the best lightsaberist in the galaxy holding his saber three inches from my neck, then cross my fingers!"

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

He was never in any danger. It's like Triple H scared to death in the ring with Batista about to blugeon him with a chair...but all along he knows Flair is going to turn and fix things.

 

Both examples of fantasy...not real life, remember.

[Art Sandusky 0]

And as wrestling fans, we buy that Hogan can come back from being nuked by the 82nd Airborne.

[SuperJerk 0]

Are you dumb?

 

No, but Palpatine would have to be if his plan was "I'll lay here, with the best lightsaberist in the galaxy holding his saber three inches from my neck, then cross my fingers!"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

There's an age-old tactic called "playing possum". Perhaps you've heard of it. Lie down and pretend to be defensless so the other guy will drop his guard.

 

Palpatine lied down.

 

Windu dropped his guard.

 

KICK WHAM STUNNER~! 3 count. Winner, and still Emperor...Palpatine!

[The Metal Maniac 0]

Drop his guard? Is that how one refers to getting their ARM SLICED OFF these days?

 

Windu didn't drop his guard, and if Anakin wasn't there to tell him not to do it (thus buying precious seconds for Anakin to make his decision) Windu would have probably severed Palpatine's head before his face had time to get fucked up.

 

Also, how is it "pretending" to be defenseless when you're actually defenseless? Palpatine had no lightsaber, and his Force Lighting was inneffective, since it was shown a few times in the movies that lightsabers are perfectly capable of deflecting Force Lightning. You know, the kind of lightsaber Mace Windu was holding right in front of his face.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Y'know, if lightsabers were capable of fending off Force Lightning, it really makes one wonder what the fuck Luke Skywalker was thinking in ROTJ when he was obviously alert and ready to use one. Maybe his just sucked or something?

[caboose 0]

Luke probably had never seen force lightning before and plus he threw his lightsabre away in hope of winning his dad back. Perhaps a similar 'call my bluff' to that which the emperor used on Anakin against Windu.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

All Luke did was throw the lightsaber a few feet away. You could hear it hit the deck, plus he had it on his belt at the end of the movie. He could have used the force to pull it to himself. My bet is that, since he'd probably never seen force lightning, he didn't know you could deflect it with a lightsaber.

[Black Lushus 0]

my counter to your guess is that the force lightning was frying the shit out of him and since he was still learning the jedi ways, he didn't have the focus and control necessary to locate and pull over his lightsaber in between lightning blasts...

[The Metal Maniac 0]

You know, now I wonder if Obi-Wan or Yoda ever actually told Luke that Palpatine was more powerful in the Force then Darth Vader was. I mean, Luke doesn't seem aware of that fact, since after defeating Vader, he throws aside his lightsaber, apparantly confident that the Emperor wouldn't be able to do anything.

 

And then, once Palpatine throws the first bolts, he says "Young fool. Only now, at the end, do you understand." Plus, his whole time training, they were warning him about Darth Vader, and how he must confront Vader and all that jazz.

 

I dunno though, maybe I'm missing something. I mean, you'd think you'd want Luke to know that Palpatine was so powerful...unless they foresaw that the only way to defeat them was to convince Vader to turn back.

 

Also, does it bug anyone else that when Vader is watching Palpatine fry Luke, he's most probably thinking "Oh God, what did I do to poor Mace?" I kinda figured that Amidala would end up being killed by Force Lightning somehow, so that he was remembering that, and making sure he didn't make the same mistake twice.

[CBright7831 0]

I think Anakin probably regretted doing that the moment Mace got shot out the window.

 

"What have I done?"

 

Anakin finally makes the right decision in ROTJ, even though it kills him in the process.

[SuperJerk 0]

Windu didn't drop his guard

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The flaming Jedi corpse streaking across the Coruscant skyline suggests otherwise.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

He didn't drop his guard; Anakin, the guy who WAS ON HIS SIDE, cut his ARM OFF, leaving Windu totally fucking defenseless.

 

Why should he have had a "guard" against Anakin?

[CBright7831 0]

"Very dangerous putting them together...I don't think the boy can handle it...I don't trust him."- Mace on Anakin and his friendship with Palpatine.

[Black Lushus 0]

yeah, I never understood why no one listened to a senior member of the Jedi Council in this matter...when Anakin reported his suspicions to Mace, they should have shipped him off on an assignment or something, get him off of Coruscant, before going to aprehend Palpatine...gotta go with your insticts a little more often, Jedi...

[caboose 0]

You know, now I wonder if Obi-Wan or Yoda ever actually told Luke that Palpatine was more powerful in the Force then Darth Vader was. I mean, Luke doesn't seem aware of that fact, since after defeating Vader, he throws aside his lightsaber, apparantly confident that the Emperor wouldn't be able to do anything.

 

And then, once Palpatine throws the first bolts, he says "Young fool. Only now, at the end, do you understand." Plus, his whole time training, they were warning him about Darth Vader, and how he must confront Vader and all that jazz.

 

I dunno though, maybe I'm missing something. I mean, you'd think you'd want Luke to know that Palpatine was so powerful...unless they foresaw that the only way to defeat them was to convince Vader to turn back.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well Yoda does tell Luke not to underestimate the Emperor but I guess the emphasis is on Vader because he is the prophecy fulfiller, so if Luke can get to Vader the rest is easy...

[SuperJerk 0]

He didn't drop his guard; Anakin, the guy who WAS ON HIS SIDE, cut his ARM OFF, leaving Windu totally fucking defenseless.

 

Why should he have had a "guard" against Anakin?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If this was a regular sword fight, you'd have a point. However, you're talking about people who are finely tuned to the Force. A Jedi should be able to sense an attack coming from any direction, even the one they aren't expecting. Windu dropped his guard because he thought he'd won. And Palpatine was hardly defenseless, given how he could've used the Force to smack Windu through the window with a desk or a couch at any time (see the later battle with Yoda).

[Art Sandusky 0]

People think that Force sensitivity is a catch-all sensory thing. You aren't aware of everything going on everywhere, just whatever you're concerned with. A Jedi would work in terms of percentages and feeling, and Mace had no prior knowledge of what was really wrong with Anakin. There was no reason to think that he would attack him, and at worst Mace expected to just arrest Palpatine and put him on trial.

[caboose 0]

The other thing is that emotion is clearly clouding Mace's judgement by the time Anakin arrives. Mace's decision to kill Palpatine without trial is a demonstration of this.

[SuperJerk 0]

People think that Force sensitivity is a catch-all sensory thing. You aren't aware of everything going on everywhere, just whatever you're concerned with. A Jedi would work in terms of percentages and feeling, and Mace had no prior knowledge of what was really wrong with Anakin.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You just totally pulled that out of your ass. Seriously, "percentages and feeling"? WTF? Is that how Obi-Wan sensed Alderaan getting blown up, because he was focussed on training Luke? Is that how Vader sensed Obi-Wan on the Death Star, because he was focused on where the Millenium Falcon came from? Windu could sense Anakin's feelings from the second his 8 year old ass took the Jedi SATs back in EPISODE I, but he suddenly couldn't sense Anakin wasn't about to attack him? WINDU DROPPED HIS GUARD. As a result, he got turned into Coruscant Fried Chicken, extra crispy recipe.

 

Palpatine was totally owning the guy until the window broke, and could've won the fight at any time by hitting Windu with something and knocking him out of the open window, or avoided attack by simply running away (using some of that super Sith speed we saw earlier in the scene). Instead he stayed his ground in order to make himself look like the victim and talk Anakin into joining his team.

 

Palpatine > Windu. End of story.

[Art Sandusky 0]

Boy, you have a hard time using secular concepts when discussing this. No, there was never a point where Yoda said "okay guys, as Jedi, we all play this game based on averages." A better word would have been "probabilities." Jedi, as much as they talk about feeling, are still creatures of rote and training.

 

Millions and millions died when Alderaan was wiped out. I would think anyone with Force sensitivity would notice that degree of suddenly nonexistent life.

 

What reason would Mace have, at that very moment, to expect Anakin to aid a Sith Lord, no matter how close he might be to the guy?

 

And if Palpatine was really that much better than Mace, he would have finished the job instead of just stabbing around like a little bitch while Mace was bobbing and weaving around, deftly dodging each thrust and swipe. Also, Mace is a friggin' Jedi Master, second only to Yoda, who fought Palpatine to a draw that could have been a victory. Obi-Wan and Anakin could cancel out each others' force pushes later on in the film, so does that mean Obi-Wan is just as strong as Anakin, who is supposedly stronger than everyone and thus also stronger than anyone?

 

Stop trying to quantify this crap. Star Wars is dorky enough without everyone arguing about who would have beaten who based on vague deliniations of how powerful every character is. Palpatine gambled that Anakin would show up to help him, and it paid off. End.

[SuperJerk 0]

You need to let go of the whole "Jedi have to expect something in order to sense it" circular argument you've been feeding me for the last half-a-page. It doesn't make any sense.

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

You can point to an example in that same movie to back up Y2J's point: Yoda killing the clone troopers who were about to shoot him in the back. What reason would Yoda have had to expect that scenario to happen? He was still able to sense it & defend himself before it was too late.

 

What reason would Mace have, at that very moment, to expect Anakin to aid a Sith Lord, no matter how close he might be to the guy?

My take on it was that Anakin didn't make up his mind to help Palpatine until the very last second, thus Mace was caught off guard. Had Anakin showed up with the sole intent of helping Palpatine, then Mindu would have been able to sense Anakin's feelings, and been able to defend himself against Anakin's attack. Of course, that would have left him open to Palpatine's counter-attack, so Mace was pretty much boned either way.