Early number of ONS buys in

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

At 800,000, ONS would be #5, behind WM 21, WM 17, WM 20 and WM 18, but if goes above 840,000, then it will be #4.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Are the 4 Mania PPV's you listed as being above ONS in order of buys?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes.

 

WM 21 should easily be #1, as it looks set to be a fair bit greater above 1 million buys. WM 17 did, literally, just over 1 million. I don't think WM XX did 1 million, but came close. WM 18 did 840,000.

[GreatWhiteNope 0]

In terms of actual buys, 800,000 would #5. Buy rates from earlier years are at levels that are unlikely to ever be reached again, simply because of how the PPV universe has expanded.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Alright, then shouldn't this thread be titled "Early ONS purchase count in..." since the 800,000 figure represents actual buys, not the buyrate which reflects the number of buys compared to available homes?

[Prophet of Mike Zagurski 0]

How much did a real ECW PPV do back in the day?

[teke184 0]

In terms of actual buys, 800,000 would #5. Buy rates from earlier years are at levels that are unlikely to ever be reached again, simply because of how the PPV universe has expanded.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Alright, then shouldn't this thread be titled "Early ONS purchase count in..." since the 800,000 figure represents actual buys, not the buyrate which reflects the number of buys compared to available homes?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

With the exception of Barely Legal, they probably topped out at a 0.2 or 0.3 buyrate. That translates to probably 100,000 buys.

 

In short, I think ONS beat out every actual ECW PPV combined when it comes to overall buys.

 

 

EDIT-

 

According to the Wrestling Information Archive, every ECW PPV did between a 0.20 and a 0.26 *EXCEPT* Massacre On 34th Street (Dec. 3, 2000), which got a 0.98.

 

That number seems WAY too high considering that ECW was falling apart by that point, so I'm going to consider it an outlyer in the dataset.

 

 

Also, according to the same site, a 1.0 buyrate is considered to be roughly 400,000 buys in the past couple of year.

 

This estimate does NOT apply to early WWF PPVs such as Wrestlemania 3, which had a 10.2, because the universe of cable subscribers was much smaller at that time.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

I don't believe buy numbers until Meltzer announces them. Although it wouldn't suprise me since this show was advertised on both brand shows and was a big focus of the long promo segments.

 

If these numbers are true, then it kind of seems to me like they can't ignore it. It kind of reminds me of Attitude, wherein one outsider (Russo or in this case RVD) pitches an idea to Vince and manages to start something. In the case of Attitude, Shane was supporting it pretty heavily and pushed Vince over the edge into pulling the trigger the idea. Word is that Stephanie and Hunter stayed at home while Vince & Shane were at the show. I wonder if the same situation is happening here, because my guess is it would take more coaxing than RVD and Heyman (who was in the doghouse anyways) to get Vince to make deals with guys who aren't his own and feature them prominently.

 

Okay, maybe I'm just dreaming or speculating now, but I really wish there was some sort of grab for the company by Shane here. If the company goes to Hunter, things will get even worse.

[Downhome 0]

Here is how it goes down.

 

Vince likes money.

 

ECW (at least as of this moment) = money.

[cabbageboy 0]

I wouldn't doubt these numbers really. I have no concrete evidence of this but just from the buzz I got it seemed like everyone I knew wanted to see this PPV. My friend Ian's wife bought him the PPV as an early Father's Day present and they almost NEVER get a PPV (he usually comes over to watch em).

 

As far as that odd Massacre on 34th St. PPV, I seem to recall someone saying it was part of a PPV package deal or something that led to it having a big buyrate that didn't reflect the company at the time.

[naiwf 0]

In terms of actual buys, 800,000 would #5. Buy rates from earlier years are at levels that are unlikely to ever be reached again, simply because of how the PPV universe has expanded.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Alright, then shouldn't this thread be titled "Early ONS purchase count in..." since the 800,000 figure represents actual buys, not the buyrate which reflects the number of buys compared to available homes?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No, because buyrates are now calculated in total buys. It's the same reason that if you look at all-time movie ticket sales Titanic is # 1, but it would be dwarfed by Gone With The Wind if you adjusted the latter for inflation in ticket sales. That "10.2" WM 3 got would be tiny (as in sub 1.0) if you adjusted it to the modern PPV universe. HTQ's numbers are correct, and the easiest way of identifying which PPV sold the most.

 

I found this somewhere

 

as of Apr 6 2004, 11:13 PM 

 

Buyrates from the top PPV's from WWE:

1. WWE WrestleMania 17 - 950,000 buys - The Rock vs. Steve Austin

2. WWE WrestleMania 18 - 840,000 buys - The Rock vs. Hulk Hogan

3. WWE WrestleMania 20 - 825,000 buys - Triple H vs. Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels

4. WWE WrestleMania 16 - 824,000 buys - The Rock vs. Triple H vs. The Big Show vs. Mick Foley

5. WWE WrestleMania 15 - 800,000 buys - The Rock vs. Steve Austin

6. WWE InVasion - 770,000 buys - Steve Austin, The Undertaker, Kurt Angle, Kane, & Chris Jericho vs. Booker T, Rhyno, Diamond Dallas Page, Bubba Ray Dudley, D-Von Dudley

7. WWE WrestleMania 14 - 730,000 buys - Steve Austin vs. Shawn Michaels

8. WWE SummerSlam (08/30/9 - 700,000 buys - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker

9. WWE Royal Rumble (01/20/02) - 665,000 buys - Chris Jericho vs. The Rock

10. WCW Starrcade (12/28/97) - 650,000 buys - Hulk Hogan vs. Sting

10. WWE WrestleMania 5 (04/02/89) - 650,000 buys - Hulk Hogan vs. Randy Savage

10. WWE Royal Rumble (01/24/99) - 650,000 buys - The Rock vs. Mankind

13. WWE Backlash (04/30/00) - 625,000 buys - The Rock vs. Triple H*

14. WWE Unforgiven (09/24/00) - 605,000 buys - The Rock vs. Chris Benoit vs. The Undertaker vs. Kane*

15. WCW Bash at the Beach (07/12/9 - 600,000 buys - Hulk Hogan & Dennis Rodman vs. Diamond Dallas Page & Karl Malone

15. WWE SummerSlam (08/22/99) - 600,000 buys - Steve Austin vs. Triple H vs. Mankind

 

Credit: Wrestling Observer Newsletter/Wrestling Daily.net

 

Obviously WM XXI hadn't happened yet, but you can see that WM 3 doesn't even make the top 15 despite having a "10.2" buyrate.

[Mole 0]

This is hogwash.

 

I've never heard of estimates for buyrates this early.

 

This is complete bullshit.

[CBright7831 0]

Buyrates from the top PPV's from WWE:

1. WWE WrestleMania 17 - 950,000 buys - The Rock vs. Steve Austin

2. WWE WrestleMania 18 - 840,000 buys - The Rock vs. Hulk Hogan

3. WWE WrestleMania 20 - 825,000 buys - Triple H vs. Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels

4. WWE WrestleMania 16 - 824,000 buys - The Rock vs. Triple H vs. The Big Show vs. Mick Foley

5. WWE WrestleMania 15 - 800,000 buys - The Rock vs. Steve Austin

6. WWE InVasion - 770,000 buys - Steve Austin, The Undertaker, Kurt Angle, Kane, & Chris Jericho vs. Booker T, Rhyno, Diamond Dallas Page, Bubba Ray Dudley, D-Von Dudley

7. WWE WrestleMania 14 - 730,000 buys - Steve Austin vs. Shawn Michaels

8. WWE SummerSlam (08/30/9 - 700,000 buys - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker

9. WWE Royal Rumble (01/20/02) - 665,000 buys - Chris Jericho vs. The Rock

10. WCW Starrcade (12/28/97) - 650,000 buys - Hulk Hogan vs. Sting

10. WWE WrestleMania 5 (04/02/89) - 650,000 buys - Hulk Hogan vs. Randy Savage

10. WWE Royal Rumble (01/24/99) - 650,000 buys - The Rock vs. Mankind

13. WWE Backlash (04/30/00) - 625,000 buys - The Rock vs. Triple H*

14. WWE Unforgiven (09/24/00) - 605,000 buys - The Rock vs. Chris Benoit vs. The Undertaker vs. Kane*

15. WCW Bash at the Beach (07/12/9 - 600,000 buys - Hulk Hogan & Dennis Rodman vs. Diamond Dallas Page & Karl Malone

15. WWE SummerSlam (08/22/99) - 600,000 buys - Steve Austin vs. Triple H vs. Mankind

 

Credit: Wrestling Observer Newsletter/Wrestling Daily.net

 

Har! I bought the two highest selling PPVS of all time.

 

I am apart of history!

[Guest *KNK*]

Where does WMXXI and WMX7 rank in all time PAY PER VIEW history, not just wrestling.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Those numbers are a little out-of-date. WM X7 did just over a million buys for one thing. WM XX also did just over 900,000.

[iliketurtles 0]

Until Meltzer says anything, it's BS to me.

 

How can you have an estimate without even counting encores?

[naiwf 0]

Until Meltzer says anything, it's BS to me.

 

How can you have an estimate without even counting encores?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Because it's the EARLY estimate which will invariably go up after encores. Think of it as the PPV version of the overnight rating, which always gets adjusted, except this time it goes up instead of down.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

This information comes from the WM21 thread. I've altered it a little to include this number and WM21's.

 

Wrestlemania 17: 1,040,000 buys

Wrestlemania 21: 940,000 buys (estimated, possibly over a million)

 

Wrestlemania 20: 885,000

Wrestlemania 18: 840,000

ECW One Night Stand: 800,000 (approx., early estimate, possibly bullshit?)

 

Invasion: 775,000

 

Royal Rumble 2002: 670,000

Rumble 2001: 625,000

 

No Way Out 2001: 590,000

Rumble 2003: 585,000

No Way Out 2002: 575,000

Summerslam 2001: 565,000

Wrestlemania 19: 560,000

Summerslam 2002: 520,000

Rumble 2004: 500,000

 

Summerslam 2003: 465,000

Survivor Series 2001: 450,000 (blowoff of the Invasion angle, disappointing number)

No Way Out 2003: 450,000

Survivor Series 2003: 450,000 (big success for the time)

King of the Ring 2001: 445,000 (Jericho and Benoit headlining with Austin)

Summerslam 2004: 415,000

Judgment Day 2001: 405,000

Backlash 2002: 400,000

 

Bad Blood 2003: 385,000 (big buyrate shock at the time...Foley helped draw?)

Backlash 2001: 375,000 (look at the drop for WM17)

Vengeance 2002: 375,000

Judgment Day 2002: 373,000

Vengeance 2003: 365,000 (big success at the time)

Unforgiven 2003: 360,000 (Goldberg vs. HHH, success at the time)

Unforgiven 2001: 350,000

Backlash 2003: 345,000

Survivor Series 2002: 340,000

Armageddon 2002: 335,000

No Mercy 2001: 325,000

Survivor Series 2004: 325,000

King of the Ring 2002: 320,000

Vengeance 2001: 315,000

Judgment Day 2003: 315,000

Unforgiven 2002: 300,000

No Mercy 2002: 300,000

 

Backlash 2004: 295,000

Bad Blood 2004: 290,000

No Mercy 2003: 275,000

No Way Out 2004: 265,000

Vengeance 2004: 240,000

Armageddon 2003: 240,000

Unforgiven 2004: 239,000

Judgment Day 2004: 235,000

Armageddon 2004: 230,000

 

No Mercy 2004: 183,000

Taboo Tuesday: 174,000 (total for October over 350,000, however)

[Mole 0]

Until Meltzer says anything, it's BS to me.

 

How can you have an estimate without even counting encores?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Because it's the EARLY estimate which will invariably go up after encores. Think of it as the PPV version of the overnight rating, which always gets adjusted, except this time it goes up instead of down.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How come this is the first time I've ever seen PPV buyrates the NEXT night?

 

This just isn't true.

[Downhome 0]

As has been stated before, it's not the first time.

[cabbageboy 0]

Well it is a very early estimate so no one knows for 100% sure yet. I guess this time a lot of people are highly interested in seeing how it did, whereas most people already know WM will do serious business.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

WM is a much more important event, especially since WCW faded, since it gauges the heartbeat of the entire industry. If WM doesn't sell well, you can safely say the entire business is slumping.

 

This, however, will just tell how well the ECW experiment worked, which is why I'm skeptical of numbers this early.

[iliketurtles 0]

Assuming that these numbers are accurate and the buyrate ends up in the 600,000-800,000 range...

 

Bye-Bye Smackdown. ECW returns this Fall on UPN on Friday Nights. Bank on it.

[Prophet of Mike Zagurski 0]

Assuming that these numbers are accurate and the buyrate ends up in the 600,000-800,000 range...

 

Bye-Bye Smackdown. ECW returns this Fall on UPN on Friday Nights. Bank on it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

ECW can die again on Friday nights. I guess as a wrestling fan, I am programmed to watch Monday's show but hardly Thursday's show. Usually it's a suprise to me that wrestling is on when I'm channel surfing.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Remember Hogan?

 

Nostalgia or history as a one-shot event can be a huge draw of people who believe they're watching something special, but it doesn't guarantee continued success.

 

Still, couldn't blame them for striking when the iron is hot, but ECW pulled about 1.0 on TNN.

[Downhome 0]

Still, couldn't blame them for striking when the iron is hot, but ECW pulled about 1.0 on TNN.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That isn't really because of the product or anything like that though.

[Cuban Linx 0]

If this number proves accurate, and considering it's a very early estimate it should go up if anything, then this is a number that Vince & Co. can't ignore. To be looking at a number of PPV buys in the top 5 for wrestling all-time is huge, with the quality of the PPV i was hoping for a big buyrate since it definately deserved it but this is more than probably anyone expected.

[The Czech Republic 0]

Remember Hogan?

 

Nostalgia  or history as a one-shot event can be a huge draw of people who believe they're watching something special, but it doesn't guarantee continued success.

 

Still, couldn't blame them for striking when the iron is hot, but ECW pulled about 1.0 on TNN.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

First off, that TNN show was horribly promoted. Like Heyman said, The Rock could've walked on and it wouldn't mean a thing, because nobody would've known about it. Get a hype machine behind an ECW show and we'll see.

 

And obviously, the key to a full-out ECW restoration isn't rehashing Dreamer and Sandman again and again. That's the sort of one-off deal that won't sustain interest. It's more a matter of rekindling the spirit of ECW in how the fans are treated, the workrate, the making something out of nothing, all that.

[Zetterberg is God 0]

If that number is close to the true buyrate, that is fucking phenomenal. It's clear that they would never reach that number again, but Vince should really contemplate an ECW revival.

[spman 0]

At 800,000, ONS would be #5, behind WM 21, WM 17, WM 20 and WM 18, but if goes above 840,000, then it will be #4.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What is your source?

 

The numbers I'm looking at show every Wrestlemania except XI, XII, XIII and XIX beating One Night Stand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You can't compare shows prior to about 1992 to shgows post-1992 by the buyrate number, you'd have to compare them by the actual total number of buys. Prior to 1992, the potential audience with Pay per View Capabilities was small, so a 10.2 is the percentage of people who orderd the show out of all people who could hav epotentially done so. As the number of people who have the ability to order increases, the buyrate number decreases, even if the number of people ordering is greater.

[GreatWhiteNope 0]

At 800,000, ONS would be #5, behind WM 21, WM 17, WM 20 and WM 18, but if goes above 840,000, then it will be #4.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What is your source?

 

The numbers I'm looking at show every Wrestlemania except XI, XII, XIII and XIX beating One Night Stand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You can't compare shows prior to about 1992 to shgows post-1992 by the buyrate number, you'd have to compare them by the actual total number of buys. Prior to 1992, the potential audience with Pay per View Capabilities was small, so a 10.2 is the percentage of people who orderd the show out of all people who could hav epotentially done so. As the number of people who have the ability to order increases, the buyrate number decreases, even if the number of people ordering is greater.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm now aware - which is why I'm trying to figure out why 800,000 is being called a "buy rate".

 

The decimal figures are the buy rates.

[Guest BobBacklundRules]

Buyrates from the top PPV's from WWE:

1. WWE WrestleMania 17 - 950,000 buys - The Rock vs. Steve Austin

2. WWE WrestleMania 18 - 840,000 buys - The Rock vs. Hulk Hogan

3. WWE WrestleMania 20 - 825,000 buys - Triple H vs. Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels

4. WWE WrestleMania 16 - 824,000 buys - The Rock vs. Triple H vs. The Big Show vs. Mick Foley

5. WWE WrestleMania 15 - 800,000 buys - The Rock vs. Steve Austin

6. WWE InVasion - 770,000 buys - Steve Austin, The Undertaker, Kurt Angle, Kane, & Chris Jericho vs. Booker T, Rhyno, Diamond Dallas Page, Bubba Ray Dudley, D-Von Dudley

7. WWE WrestleMania 14 - 730,000 buys - Steve Austin vs. Shawn Michaels

 

It's interesting that the top PPV buyrate that's not a Wrestlemania is Invasion, which was the last time a big ECW angle was around.

[RedJed 0]

If this does anywhere from 500,000-600,000 onward, I think serious consideration needs to be thought of eliminating the brand extension, turning Raw and Smackdown into one brand, and reviving ECW entirely, taking the ppvs of Smackdown essentially and if warranted (or even allowed by UPN and/or Spike) give it two hours a week, possibly in place of either Raw or Smackdown. The bet bet might be to possibly have one hour of Raw a week (with WWE), the other hour being ECW, and then do the same with the Thurs/Fri UPN slot. Otherwise they should in the very least give an hour to ECW on either Sat night Velocity slot and/or Sunday Night Heat slot, which will roll over to USA anyway. If the higher ups at the networks have a problem with it, I bet they wouldnt very much when they would be informed on the buy rate this ECW ppv gets.

 

Bottom line is that number cannot be denied. I think if it would have gotten to what they expected (around 300,000) then it was clear the whole concept worked and they could consider occasional reunion shows maybe 3-4 times a year or less. But now if it gets a ridiculously high number (way more than ANY other non-Mania ppv including Invasion, which at the time was a huge success) they NEED to do more. Its just good financial sense and logic to do so. Plus it would get over alot of underutilized workers in WWE (so they would make $$$ for the company instead of floundering), add a paycheck to other workers from ECW past who could get over in this system (ie Heyman controlling this company much like him and Dreamer controlled this ppv). Plus they could easily kill off any last hope TNA would have to stay around if ECW came back, as I think they could easily take some of the good concepts from TNA (like a GOOD CW type division or X division built around the ECW TV title perhaps) and go with them. Also if that would kill off TNA, guys like Styles and such might have a strong chance to succeed in a WWE financed environment like this. Hell, if you really want to also, make Mania one of the annual times that ECW and WWE guys get together. Possibilities, be them bad or good, are endless.