a confused Lakers fan

[razazteca 0]

  = 

 

So does that mean:

 

Phil Jackson = Obi Won

Kobe = Vader

Buss = Palpatine

Mitch Cupcake = Viceroy

Shaq = Mace

[Guest Brian]

Shaq = Mace

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Don't equate Shaq's acting ability with Samuel L. Jackson.

[razazteca 0]

But Shaq was betrayed by Kobe's jealously and greed.

[Precious Roy 0]

I was thinking Phil was more like Yoda. Ideally, MJ would be Obi-Wan. I find the idea of Buss as Palpatine hilarious for some reason

[Rendclaw 0]

whoa, why does Phil get blame?  He reached out to Kobe, told Kobe the truth that Shaq was #1 and Kobe was #1A, which Kobe couldn't handle, and Kobe's ego destroyed the team from the inside.  As soon as Kobe got himself over with a championship and the media really started riding him as the next Jordan he got greedy, got jealous.  He thought Phil favored Shaq over him (and really, who wouldn't?  Shaq seems like a genuinely cool guy with interests beyond his personal world, and Kobe seems like a petulant brat).  Shaq embraced the phil-osophy, Kobe didn't.  Kobe was the lynchpin, and once he went bad it affected Shaq and the rest of the team.

 

Phil gets blame in my opinion because he didn;t do enough to try and defuse the situation before it got so far out of hand that there was no way to repair it. I agree that Kobe's ego was the mitigating factor in the destruction of a team that won three championships, though.

 

Kobe was being heralded as the next Jordan from the jump. That was only exacerbated by his idolization of Jordan, to the point where he was doing a lot of things like Mike, from game play to speech patterns. But I'm not surprised by that, considering how immature he *really* is, as we found out when the rape trial started, and his inexplicable running off of Karl Malone, one of the very few people that publically took up for Kobe.

 

Shaq is far from innocent in this situation, because if he had stayed in shape and kept his focus, chances are that Buss would have re-signed him.

 

All three of them are to blame, almost equally.

[UZI Suicide 0]

Buss never "got rid" of Shaq. The Lakers offered him a 3-year extension to make him the highest paid player in the league and he turned it down and demanded a trade.

 

They offered him that contract before Kobe ever re-signed, so to say that Kobe forced everyone out is ridiculous.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Shaq knew they would try to re-sign Kobe though. Although I don't think Shaq wanted to be in LA anyways, so whatever.

[Guest Vitamin X]

whoa, why does Phil get blame?  He reached out to Kobe, told Kobe the truth that Shaq was #1 and Kobe was #1A, which Kobe couldn't handle, and Kobe's ego destroyed the team from the inside.  As soon as Kobe got himself over with a championship and the media really started riding him as the next Jordan he got greedy, got jealous.  He thought Phil favored Shaq over him (and really, who wouldn't?  Shaq seems like a genuinely cool guy with interests beyond his personal world, and Kobe seems like a petulant brat).  Shaq embraced the phil-osophy, Kobe didn't.  Kobe was the lynchpin, and once he went bad it affected Shaq and the rest of the team.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Where does it ever show that Kobe was being jealous, or greedy? Besides the point of when the team had already lost the NBA Finals, and all three men went their own seperate ways, Kobe and Shaq worked just fine and embraced the team philosophy well enough for to win 3 straight championships, whether it was Shaq doing the dirty work, or Kobe, or both. In the end, they were outclassed by a team with no single mega-superstar and a deep bench that could play defense, and exposed the rest of the Lakers as a thin, weak, injured or aging lineup.

 

Listen, I just don't see where the proof is that Kobe even has an ego. Everytime I hear that, it just sound like everyone's parroting the one bad thing they hear about it, but there's no consistent proof about it. Even Phil Jackson's word is questionable; after all, he goes around saying he wanted nothing to do with coaching Bryant again in his book, then goes right back to jumping back on board with the Lakers as head coach.

 

It wasn't just Kobe. It was Shaq. It was Phil. It was the combination of all these mega-talented superstars with their own agendas, all at different stages of their careers, wanting to be the best. They're all extremely competitive, and it shows from how much they want to win.

 

X, you have to seriously get off of Kobe's jock or you will walk bowlegged for the rest of your life.

 

And you can fuck right off with this statement. I had just mentioned in my last post before this one how Kobe wasn't even my favorite NBA player, but I think it's just a little ridiculous to villify him for something that noone knows, and is all based on assumptions and media speculation. That's all. I've been a Laker fan pretty much my whole life, and I grew up loving guys like Magic Johnson, who's still my favorite (and in my opinion the best) player to have ever played the game. Kobe is a long ways far from those days, but so are a LOT of players today. For every Tim Duncan, there's a Ron Artest. For every Steve Nash there's a Vince Carter. And so on, and so forth. I just don't see what's so particularly bad about Bryant that's earned him the amount of hate that he has, but that certainly doesn't mean I'm riding anybody's jockstrap, and if anyone is being ridiculous in this discussion, it's people like you who put so much negative energy into hating someone they'll never meet.

 

I believe we've gotten in an argument before in another thread regarding Shaq, and then somehow it turned into Sass owning you over and over again regarding something about Magic Johnson, so I probably shouldn't have even spent this much effort retorting someone who's proven to be a fucking tool already. You have your opinions, I'll keep mine. End of discussion.

[alfdogg 0]

That was someone else that had that argument with Sass.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Well then, disregard that part of what I said.

[Precious Roy 0]

Where does it ever show that Kobe was being jealous, or greedy?

 

According to indirect implications from Shaq and direct implications from Phil, Kobe was jealous over the fact that no matter what he did it would never be seen as "his team", and greedy for the MJ status which he felt was being denied in the public mindset do to the fact that he played with Shaq. He hated being viewed as the Robin to Shaq's Batman, even though I'm sure he knew deep down it didn't actually work that way, and even though anyone with a reasonable outlook didn't look at it like that. Fuck, even your boy Ervin espouses this view of Kobe's downfall, though he's too diplomatic to actually come out and say it in plain English, choosing euphamisms and indirect scoldings instead.

 

Listen, I just don't see where the proof is that Kobe even has an ego.

 

LOLOLOLOLOL

 

Hold on, one more time:

 

Listen, I just don't see where the proof is that Kobe even has an ego.

 

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAAH

 

I r3p3@t:

 

=

Edited June 26, 2005 by Precious Roy

[Guest Vitamin X]

Phil and Shaq both have documented problems with Kobe. Anyone else besides those two? You're going to have a slanted opinion of anyone you talk about that you don't like. Shaq, in particular, is a master of spinning the media and playing people in his favor, due to the charisma he has.

 

And how does equating a picture of Bryant to a picture of Darth Vader in lego form prove any sort of a point?

[Precious Roy 0]

[Guest Vitamin X]

Hey those are kinda cool.

[The Czech Republic 0]

I still don't get where you're going with the Lego thing

[Dangerous A 0]

I am a Kings fan, so I do have my biases towards Mr. Bryant. That said, I cannot deny he is a top 5-10 player in the league and his game is pretty sick. There are things Kobe does that make me not like him. For instance, when he dunked on Doug Christie's head and got the foul, then turns around like an asshole and does the "get the dirt off your shoulder" bit with this asshole look on his face. To me, there is no need for that. It's little things like that that hurt his image. Why couldn't he just finish the play, then head off to high five his teammates? I know some players do similar things like scream after a dunk or highlight play, but what Kobe did wasn't necessary. There are other things he's done like when he got hot in Sac during a playoff game and was showing up the crowd like blowing on his fingers and telling them to shut the fuck up and what not. Now I know there are guys who do similar things in the league, but most of those guys are also viewed as assholes. Plus, Kobe gets away with it. Most stars get away with it. I hate it when Mike Bibby gets hot and does that ridiculous little pounce dance when he gets hot. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind when players celebrate a good play by themselves or with teammates. But I don't like it when they rub it in the faces of the opponent or fans. That's just me.

 

In terms of the rest of the board or league, I don't know. Again, I respect the hell out of Kobe and think he's a top 3 guard in this league (others are T-Mac and LeBron) but he's in a Laker uni. I know if T-Mac did what he did in a Laker uni, I'd hate him equally. I also know that when you drop a teammates name to help get yourself out of trouble, then you are not going to endear your self to people. As for the Karl Malone thing, who knows. It's he said, he said. It just looks bad for Kobe because here is a guy who could've kept the issue in house, but chose to get it out in the open. And yes, if you go back and look, it was Kobe who chose to make it public. It plays up to the whole Kobe is a drama queen thing and that is not a respectable tag to hold in the league. It also hurts Kobe's cause because here is a guy who admittedly lied to his wife about fornicating, yet we are supposed to believe him now? I particularly don't care if Kobe and Karl fight or fuck, but I see where it looks bad to other fans.

[Dangerous A 0]

Double post.

[Rendclaw 0]

X, you have to seriously get off of Kobe's jock or you will walk bowlegged for the rest of your life.

 

And you can fuck right off with this statement. I had just mentioned in my last post before this one how Kobe wasn't even my favorite NBA player, but I think it's just a little ridiculous to villify him for something that noone knows, and is all based on assumptions and media speculation. That's all. I've been a Laker fan pretty much my whole life, and I grew up loving guys like Magic Johnson, who's still my favorite (and in my opinion the best) player to have ever played the game. Kobe is a long ways far from those days, but so are a LOT of players today. For every Tim Duncan, there's a Ron Artest. For every Steve Nash there's a Vince Carter. And so on, and so forth. I just don't see what's so particularly bad about Bryant that's earned him the amount of hate that he has, but that certainly doesn't mean I'm riding anybody's jockstrap, and if anyone is being ridiculous in this discussion, it's people like you who put so much negative energy into hating someone they'll never meet.

 

If you are going to take such a strong stance defending Kobe, expect to get some heat for it. That statement was more joking than serious, and after I read it, I thought about editing it and putting in a smiley to tell you I was joking, but I thought that the statement was ridiculous enough not to merit one. I'll make sure to do so in the future, if only to spare your feelings.

 

And as for the media assumption, I think its pretty much common knowledge that he fucked around on his wife, which is bad enough. I didn;t think he actually was guilty of rape for the get-go, and I said so in the thread involving the trial. What he was guilty of is *horrible* judgement, and if you couple that with the facts that Shaq had the majority of fans and media on his side during that whole soap opera, the fact that the Lakers got blown the fuck out by the Pistons in 5 games, and Kobe not being as mature as he said he was to anyone who would listen, he is also going to get heat. All of those negative things (real and perceived) are going to count against him. In fact the smartest thing he has done lately since this whole thing started was to keep his mouth shut and just take care of what he needs to. he knows that his reputation is damaged, and the only way he can repair it is to shut up and play basketball.

 

I don't hate Kobe because I do not know him personally, but it is rather upsetting to see someone of his talent level do things on and off the court that he should have known not to do. And when he does, just like anybody else, he is going to get rapped for it, and not just by me. What I feel towards Kobe isn;t hate, X. its more like exasperation. And when you sit back and blindly defend him and say things like he has no ego, when you could ask anyone who can look at him and his actions objectively (like I have been doing, despite your thoughts that I hate the man) and say that he does, people are going to say that you have blinders on in regard to him.

 

As an example, I would rap Dwyane Wade if he started going knucklehead, as much as I like his game. I used to have all kinds of love for T-Mac, but after his performances in the playoffs, I am more fed up with him than ever. Vince Carter, don;t even get me started. I will always go more towards guys like Tim Duncan, who just play ball and don't do knuckleheaded things on and off the court, his performances in the Finals aside.

[Guest Vitamin X]

And those same people offer up as little proof as you have, using the same assumptions. It's not blinders; it's that I just don't care about what the man does or acts like personally; he's the best player on my favorite team, so yeah I'd defend him a little since he also did help win 3 championships, and didn't bitch out on L.A. fans like Shaq did (though if he did go and sign with another team like he almost did last season, I would probably be on the other side of the pro/anti-Kobe fence.. I don't have as much love for him as you might think I do, but I do like the way he plays, and that's all that matters to me.

 

And smiley or not, you're still coming across with the same message, which is still untrue. But whatever, this matter doesn't merit any further discussion.

[Precious Roy 0]

 

They really need a David Stern Lego....

[alfdogg 0]

You have to find the Dirk Lego

[Darthtiki 0]

You have to find the Dirk Lego

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You mean the one that looks like Ted Kennedy in a Mavs Jersey?

[Gert T 0]

I really like the Lakers, but I have a hard time rooting for them because I like Shaq and I hate hate hate Kobe Bryant. Does anybody else have the same problem?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I got the wrong quote, I was referring to the 1st Team NBA All-Hatred team.

 

I think that would be an interesting topic in itself. I'll have to think about mine. Hey Ripper, did you like that ESPN magazine article about your boy Bruce Bowen???

 

As far as the confused Laker fan, stick with your team or jump, but if you do jump make a clean break, you can't go back when the Lakers start winning again.

[Guest]

Change your username too, Shaq doesn't wear Number 34 anymore and he never will again.

[Precious Roy 0]

[Ripper 0]

I dislike Kobe because he is a rapist and thats the only reason I dislike him. Before then, I couldn't give two shits, besides the fact that he argues every call even though he gets superstar calls all the time.

[bobobrazil1984 0]

too bad , as far as the rape case goes, kobe should have just done what shaq does and pay his women not to pay. Why I heard that shaq had paid up to a million dollars already for situations like this, while bryant treats a woman with respect, therefore they shouldn't say anything!

[Guest El Satanico]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When I played with Legos as a kid, I wondered why there were no black people.

 

There's no black lego people until lego NBA, that's just not right.

[alfdogg 0]

 

This is the one I was talking about.