the one who leaked CIA op's name to Novak was....

[bobobrazil1984 0]

For those unfamiliar with the background:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valerie_Plame

 

As for the actual POSSIBLE info, pulled straight off The McLaughlin Group (also on Drudge right now):

 

http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2005/7/1/...54/6579/106#106

 

Below is the text of Lawrence O'Donell's revelatory statement on McLaughlin Group today. He began talking about Time having to pay for holding the documents/emails, and not serving its shareholders by defying a (Supreme) court order. He ended with this:

 

"What we're going to go to now in the next stage, when Matt Cooper's emails-within Time Magazine, uh, are handed over to the grand jury is the ultimate revelation, probably within the week of who his source is. And I know I'm going to get pulled into the grand jury for saying this but the source of-for Matt Cooper was Karl Rove, and that will be revealed in this document dump that Time Magazine's going to do with the grand jury."

 

IF it's true (and that's still a big IF), its a pretty major crime that can carry up to 10 years. Of course I think we all know there's no way in hell karl rove (IF its true) would ever spend a day in jail or even be prosecuted... but the left certainly has something else to go on and on about.

 

P.S. - when crafting your response, be mindful of The Rules of Partisan Fuckery

[Jobber of the Week 0]

This is who the media was protecting all this time?

 

And this is supposedly, if you listen to the echo chamber, a liberal media? WTF?

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

If I remember right, there was some documentary called "Bushs Brain" all about Rove. In it they gave some example of ANOTHER time during his run in Texas that he leaked some info to Novak. I don't recall what it was exactly, but it was used as a "he did it here" maybe he did it to Joe Wilson and his wife. Then again it was prolly more HE DID do it. But yanno how it goes.

[snuffbox 0]

Possible shades of Watergate?

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

"It was me Liberals, It was me all along!"

[The Robfather 0]

The Liberals wet dream

[Placebo Effect 0]

The Liberals wet dream

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So plain old Democrats won't be excited about this?

[Justice 0]

You know, it's not the opinions of your followers that makes you a God. It's the opinions of your enemies.

 

If they can honestly prove it, then let him get whats coming. But I have big doubts that it was Karl Rove, as he's become the Emperor Palpatine of politics. His persona of a 'Godlike manipulator' basically turned Kerry's campaign into a trigger-happy 'fire anything you can' mess because they didn't want to waste any opportunity, lest Rove instantly cover it up.

 

I honestly think the entire RNC wants everyone to think it's Karl Rove doing everything just so that people can underestimate the rest of the party. But that would just be my own opinion.

[Art Sandusky 0]

I know it's not just him, but that he's a huge force is undeniable. He'll let you know it himself too.

[SuperJerk 0]

His persona of a 'Godlike manipulator' basically turned Kerry's campaign into a trigger-happy 'fire anything you can' mess because they didn't want to waste any opportunity, lest Rove instantly cover it up.

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That's an excellent analysis.

[Art Sandusky 0]

So to update, the White House has gone totally mum on the subject (despite speaking about it before, both the President himself and the press secretary during daily press conferences in 2003 and 2004), and the new rallying cry for Rove supporters seems to be "you're just pissed off because you don't like the President." There don't seem to be many of those, though. I've only seen a few instances where someone thinks it's not even something he should be fired over. Even if he were axed, he'd still probably give informal advice to the administration. I personally want to see him prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, but whatever.

[SuperJerk 0]

Democrats call for disclosure penalties

CIA officer's husband says White House stonewalling

 

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Senate Democrats moved forcefully into the controversy surrounding White House aide Karl Rove on Thursday, calling for legislation to deny security clearances to officials who disclose the identity of an undercover agent.

 

Sen. Harry Reid, D-Nevada, sought to attach the proposal to a spending bill for the Department of Homeland Security, and aides said he hoped for a vote by day's end.

 

Reid, the Democratic leader, made his move as former Ambassador Joseph Wilson called on President Bush on Thursday to fire deputy chief of staff Karl Rove, saying Bush's top-level aide engaged in an "abuse of power" by discussing Wilson's wife's job at the CIA with a reporter.

 

Wilson decried what he called a White House "stonewall" in the wake of revelations that Rove, a longtime Bush confidant, was involved in the leak to the news media that Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame, was a CIA officer.

 

Bush said Wednesday that he would not comment on discussions that disclosed her name because it is the subject of an ongoing investigation by special counsel Patrick Fitzgerald.

 

White House press secretary Scott McClellan said the president still has confidence in Rove.

 

The White House previously has said Rove was not involved in the leak. But an internal Time magazine e-mail disclosed over the weekend suggested Rove mentioned to reporter Matthew Cooper that Wilson's wife worked for the CIA.

 

(Time and CNN are owned by Time Warner.)

 

Wilson, in an interview broadcast Thursday on NBC's "Today" show, said he thinks the White House's posture in this controversy represents a continuing "cover-up of the web of lies that underpin the justification for going to war in Iraq."

 

Wilson was asked about statements by Rove's defenders noting that the e-mail describing Rove's conversation with Cooper indicated that Rove did not specifically mention Valerie Plame by name.

 

"My wife's name is Mrs. Joseph Wilson," he replied. "It is Mrs. Valerie Wilson. He named her. He identified her," Wilson said. "So that argument doesn't stand the smell test ... What I do know is that Mr. Rove is talking to the press and he is saying things like my wife is fair game. That's an outrage. That's an abuse of power."

 

Asked how he and his wife were coping with the continuing controversy, Wilson said, "We have two 5-year-old twins and they occupy most of our free time. She's obviously nonplussed at this unwanted attention brought to our family. But she's tough."

 

Wilson said that he and his wife "have great confidence in the institutions that have made our country great ... Yes, we do have confidence that justice will be done."

 

"I think the president should call in his senior advisers and say, 'Enough is enough, I want you to step forward and cooperate,' " he said.

 

"The president has said repeatedly, "I am a man of my word,' " Wilson added. "He should stand up and prove that his word is his bond and fire Karl Rove."

 

Wilson has said the leak of his wife's name was an attempt by the administration to discredit him after he challenged its assertion that Saddam Hussein was seeking to obtain from Niger material to make nuclear weapons in Iraq.

 

Bush said Wednesday that he would not discuss the matter until the criminal investigation is finished.

 

"This is a serious investigation," the president told reporters Wednesday after a Cabinet meeting, where Rove sat near him. "And it is very important for people not to prejudge the investigation based on media reports."

Grand jury testimony

 

On Wednesday, a federal grand jury heard more testimony in its probe into whether anyone in the administration illegally leaked the name of Plame in July 2003.

 

Cooper, who wrote an article that identified Plame, appeared before the grand jury for 2 1/2 hours.

 

Rove's attorney, Robert Luskin, said in a statement, "Cooper's truthful testimony today will not call into question the accuracy or completeness of anything Rove has previously said to the prosecutor or the grand jury. If the prosecutor seeks additional information from Rove in light of Cooper's testimony, Rove will promptly supply it.

 

"Rove has cooperated completely with the special prosecutor, and he has been repeatedly assured he is not a target of the investigation," Luskin said. "Rove has done nothing wrong. We're confident he will not become a target after the special prosecutor has reviewed all evidence."

 

Each political side intensified its attempts to discredit the other on Wednesday, producing a flurry of news releases and news conferences.

 

Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nevada, and three other Senate Democratic leaders -- Charles Schumer of New York, Dick Durbin of Illinois and Debbie Stabenow of Michigan -- sent a letter to Andrew Card, the White House chief of staff, asking him to release results of an initial internal investigation into the leak.

 

MoveOn.org, a liberal advocacy group, announced its members would stage a protest in front of the White House on Thursday to demand Rove's firing.

 

A survey of more than a dozen Republicans who live outside Washington found most siding with the White House. "It's a tempest in a teapot," said Denzil Garrison, former state GOP leader in Oklahoma.

 

"I have not heard a person bring it up in Michigan," said GOP consultant John Truscott of Lansing, Michigan. "It's just not an issue out here."

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/07/14/cia...s.ap/index.html

 

 

I highlght my favorite part.

 

What'd they think people would think Rove was talking about one of Wilson's OTHER wives?

[Justice 0]

As much as I hate Wilson for being an idiot in general (Considering he was pretty much dead wrong on his findings), Karl Rove should be punished for this.

 

Of course, if this whole "double super secret background" thing is true (Which it looks as though it is).

[Art Sandusky 0]

Which parts of his findings were found to be wrong? I only ask because I'm not up on the details of what got Rove pissed off at him in the first place. I know it was at least partially the rebuff of the claim that Iraq had Uranium from Nigeria or something like that.

[Justice 0]

What happened was that he said that Iraq had no dealings with Nigeria for Uranium and such. In fact, the Senate Intelligence Committee basically said this was one of the only parts that was right.

 

I mean, the guy went through all Official channels. Like that'll turn up anything.

[Art Sandusky 0]

I wonder how many countries have contacted Nigeria since their Uranium became the new cool thing to buy.

[Danville_Wrestling 0]

Well from what I've read about this entire affair there are some questions it has raised in my mind for some things that don't make since.

 

1: Congressional reports say that Mr. Wilson was NEVER sent by Congress (like he claims) to investigate Niger (not NIGERIA) selling yellow cake uranium to Saddam Hussein. Therefore, this guy's story appears out of whack to begin with because he claims Congress sent him, but Congress claims that wasn't true. He even said Cheney recommended him to go, but Cheney was like "who is this guy" when asked about it later. Also, British intelligence continues to assert they were correct in their Niger reports and that's what Bush cited in the State of the Union speech that drew so much criticism. Now, from my vantage point where the administration SCREWED UP was in recalling their statement on the yellow cake because it basically lent Wilson's story credibility in the eyes of the mainstream press.

 

2: Wilson had a record before this "leaking" incident of saying that his wife was a CIA operative. Evidently Wilson had disclosed this information before this entire scandal emerged and his wife even posed for him in a magazine (maybe Vanity Fair)? So, if Wilson says his wife name was leaked and she was covert this clearly isn't the type of behavior a CIA agent would be doing to protect their identity.

 

3: It's been said that Mrs. Wilson isn't even a COVERT CIA operative. From all reports she works @ CIA headquarters, somewhere covert operatives don't want to go near for fear of being found out.

 

4: This is the biggest thing to me by far. Why is Judith Miller still in jail if we know Karl Rove was the one disclosing information? Was there two sources to this saga? Clearly I think the NYT is stonewalling this investigation because Miller had answers and she's not talking. It appears we have a game where Miller won't talk and the media will blame Rove for it. However, it makes little sense to me to have Judith Miller behind jail racking up "martyr points" if the real source has been disclosed. This leads me to believe Rove is being made out as a big scapegoat in this whole ordeal.

 

Those are just some questions I have about this entire issue. I think Rove won't be fired by Bush b/c Bush is incredibly loyal and Bush doesn't shy away from a fight, regardless of what the issue has to be. Rove has been instrumental in building the GOP's success over the last five years and he's not going to be kicked out of the White House now regardless of how much pressure comes down on him. Plus, with this investigation continuing until a later date I imagine the White House can let the flames die down and then make their move. This is probably why they aren't saying anything at the moment.

[bobobrazil1984 0]

what does any of whether joe wilson was correct or talking out of his ass have to do with this issue? seems like more confusion.

 

Rove's email is Rove's email in both scenarios. Personally I think he has enough wiggle room to get out of a crime.

 

Danville, As I understand it, Cooper's source was Rove (and Rove's lawyer apparently gave him a waiver to go ahead and disclose so as not to go to jail), but Miller's source was someone else.

 

Remember, Novak's column cited TWO administration sources, "Two senior administration officials told me Wilson's wife suggested sending him to Niger to investigate the Italian report." I'm guessing Novak's other soruce is probably Miller's source. I get the feeling that second source is the REAL story, who knows if we'll ever get that name though.

[SuperJerk 0]

Of course, if this whole "double super secret background" thing is true (Which it looks as though it is).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I thought that the "double super secret background"was just them trying to bust out an "Animal House" reference on us.

[SuperJerk 0]

The saga continues...

 

Source: Rove said reporters told him of CIA operative's identity

 

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Chief presidential adviser Karl Rove testified to a grand jury that he talked with two journalists before they divulged the identity of a CIA officer but that he originally learned about the operative from the news media and not government sources, according to a person briefed on the testimony.

 

more: http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/07/15/cia...e.ap/index.html

 

 

Kind of gives you the impression everyone in Washington just sits around calling each other all day and gossiping.

[Dr. Tom 0]

Valerie Plame was not a covert operative when Rove supposedly leaked her name. She hadn't been one for nine years. Ergo, I don't see a crime being committed. It looks like an effort by the Democrats (and their "nonpartisan" buddy Wilson) to try and nail Rove (and, by extension, Bush) on something silly.

[Danville_Wrestling 0]

Valerie Plame was not a covert operative when Rove supposedly leaked her name.  She hadn't been one for nine years.  Ergo, I don't see a crime being committed.  It looks like an effort by the Democrats (and their "nonpartisan" buddy Wilson) to try and nail Rove (and, by extension, Bush) on something silly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thank you, that's what I've said initially. Plame wasn't a covert operative so there has been no crime committed and special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald has created a media firestorm over a convoluted case. After all, we have Miller in jail & Cooper initially threatened with it (a punishment totally exaggerating their "offenses") and we've had this big debate over press freedom vs. national security.

 

Also, there is no crime committed here for various reasons. I went searching through the Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982 and it's very hard to nail someone for disclosing an operatives name b/c there are different categories for the offenses. Under one category, the person who leaks the name has to have a security clearance to have access to the information, has to deliberately disclose it, and the government has to be in the process of trying to keep the operatives name a secret. Under another category (which is a little vague), someone is intentionally disclosing an operative's name to damage national security. This act is very convoluted b/c it was written in order to prevent special agents from disclosing other agents identities and not for Washington insiders to be punished for disclosing the names.

 

If Rove has said that he learned the name from Novak then I don't see how he's leaked anything. Also, if Plame wasn't a covert operative NONE of the Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982 was violated and Rove can't be hauled into court to face charges b/c Plame's life wasn't on the line due to this.

 

Also, I only mentioned Wilson's past dealings over his lies of going to Niger b/c his op-ed piece in the New York Times started this entire mess. Thus, if he hadn't have opened his big fat mouth to lie about Iraq not trying to get yellow cake in Niger then we wouldn't have any of these problems to begin with. In other words, Joseph Wilson brought all of these problems on himself and his wife, simple as that.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Valerie Plame was not a covert operative when Rove supposedly leaked her name.  She hadn't been one for nine years.  Ergo, I don't see a crime being committed.  It looks like an effort by the Democrats (and their "nonpartisan" buddy Wilson) to try and nail Rove (and, by extension, Bush) on something silly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They kind of did themselves in on that "I'd fire anyone..." line, though, and now they're trying to make build evidence so they can say "Well, you know, you DID say that..."

 

Granted, anything that takes Karl Rove out of politics is a good thing for the tone of politics. He's led some radical wing of the right to take over the Republican party, turning them into this ultra-competitive, ultra-vicious atmosphere where winning elections is a life-and-death battle and listening to the other side or coming up with compromises is something only pussies do. As a supporter of reasonable debate, I support this whole "kicking the shit out of him through news stories and revelations" thing.

 

The saga continues...

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/07/15/cia...e.ap/index.html

 

 

Kind of gives you the impression everyone in Washington just sits around calling each other all day and gossiping.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

More important than that is this:

The person, who works in the legal profession and spoke only on condition of anonymity because of grand jury secrecy, told The Associated Press that Rove testified last year that he remembers specifically being told by columnist Robert Novak that Valerie Plame, the wife of a harsh Iraq war critic, worked for the CIA.

 

Now that this is out there, you may see some sort of about-face where the White House places the blame on Novak.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

"Yellow cake uranium" doesn't sound threatening, no matter who has it.

 

Yeah sure, one so inclined could build some horrible device with it, but it still sounds like some kind of Betty Crocker product marketed towards children.

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

Valerie Plame was not a covert operative when Rove supposedly leaked her name.

 

That would be news to the CIA. Wouldn't it?

[Justice 0]

Valerie Plame was not a covert operative when Rove supposedly leaked her name.

 

That would be news to the CIA. Wouldn't it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, how covert can you be when you actually work in the building?

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Well, how covert can you be when you actually work in the building?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But why would the CIA reccomend an investigation if it was as blatant as night and day that she works for them?

[Justice 0]

No, the better question is why would they have a covert agent working right at CIA Headquarters, and why they'd think that's covert. I don't care why they want an investigation (As we've seen enough high-level leaks against the Bush Administration that haven't yet warranted an investigation), moreso their idea of having a covert operative that openly works at their base in Langley as a smart decision.

[SuperJerk 0]

This story is the cover story for Time this week, BTW.

 

Valerie Plame was not a covert operative when Rove supposedly leaked her name.  She hadn't been one for nine years. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Source?

 

There is conflicting information on this.

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

Passing this on.. (hopefully it's not true, because this is bad stuff in general)

 

Madsen on the effects of outing Valerie Plame and other stuff

 

Newsweek magazine is reporting on the contents of a July 11, 2003 email between reporter Matt Cooper and Time Washington bureau chief Michael Duffy that was handed over, along with other email and notes, to special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald. Although the email shows that Rove talked to Cooper about Ambassador Joe Wilson's wife, there is no mention of how columnist Robert Novak obtained the information on Brewster Jennings & Associates, the carve out brass plate firm that was used by Valerie Plame and her colleagues and which was rolled up as a result of the leak. Rove and his lawyer are trying to limit the spin to Rove "not knowing" Plame's name, let alone that she was a covert CIA agent. Yet Plame's association with a non-official cover (NOC), by default, means that she was covert, pure and simple. Brewster Jennings reportedly "suffered greatly" as a result of the disclosure, according to a knowledgeable source. Another source reported that at least one Brewster Jennings NOC operating in a hostile intelligence environment was executed by counter-intelligence agents as a result of the White House disclosure. Other B&JA assets were forced to abandon their ongoing operations to identify networks involved in weapons of mass destruction proliferation. The CIA has been working on a damage assessment report on the Plame/B&JA disclosures. If no indictments of White House officials result from the Fitzgerald investigation, look for parts of that highly classified report to be leaked and then look for more imprisonments of journalists who refuse to divulge the source(s) of those leaks. Word from intelligence sources is that the damage assessment report is "devastating."

 

There's a good shot that the leak led to the death of someone, and a setback in efforts to stop WMDs.

 

Just because Plame is in Virginia doesn't mean you can just reveal her company as a front. These actions have consequences, no doubt about it. She is not just a person without links. Other people are linked to BJ&A and they suffer too because of these actions.