The return of Matt Hardy!!!

[Dandy 0]

Imarkout4eldandy ... I really meant it when I said "in an unrelated note" ... I wasn't calling you dumb.  I made the Bret Hart joke because it's an old-ass joke, and all the rags used to throw that out everytime they wanted something hot as a rumor.

 

A bunch of the other "OMG, it's a shoot" posts made by other people were indeed dumb to me.  But yours was not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Well, it said "this post," which led me to believe you were referencing what you quoted, which was my post. I use the "in a completely unrelated topic" line as sarcasm daily, and took it as that.

 

I'm aware of the "Bret Hart is coming back to lead the invasion" line. I was an avid reader of scoopthis.com, and I have posted here since Scott Keith had the site that led to the forums.

 

No hard feelings, but please clarify a little in the future so I don't get so worked up.

[Guest DVD Spree]

I'm still interested in if and how this might relate to some of the recent firings.

 

Spike, Charlie Haas and co were a bit of a surprise, but The Dudleys in particular seemed to be too high-profile to release like that. And with the worked-shoot Meanie-JBL and WWE.com giving bizarre post-release interviews with some of the released talent – something that seems totally out of character both for anyone who has been fired and especially for WWE.com – it just seems that there may be a little more here than meets the eye. I'm not predicting an ECW/Matt Hardy outsider invasion… or maybe I am… but the sudden influx of worked-shooting seems a little spontaneous and out of character for a promotion that could barely put together a coherent show a few weeks ago.

 

All I can say is that the ECW atmosphere – certainly post-ONS – seems to have done some good for the WWE. Sure, all this pseudo-shoot stuff means diddly dick to the mainstream fans, but at least we can appreciate some coherence and intelligence in the angles.

[Dandy 0]

I'm still interested in if and how this might relate to some of the recent firings.

 

Spike, Charlie Haas and co were a bit of a surprise, but The Dudleys in particular seemed to be too high-profile to release like that. And with the worked-shoot Meanie-JBL and WWE.com giving bizarre post-release interviews with some of the released talent – something that seems totally out of character both for anyone who has been fired and especially for WWE.com – it just seems that there may be a little more here than meets the eye. I'm not predicting an ECW/Matt Hardy outsider invasion… or maybe I am… but the sudden influx of worked-shooting seems a little spontaneous and out of character for a promotion that could barely put together a coherent show a few weeks ago.

 

All I can say is that the ECW atmosphere – certainly post-ONS – seems to have done some good for the WWE. Sure, all this pseudo-shoot stuff means diddly dick to the mainstream fans, but at least we can appreciate some coherence and intelligence in the angles.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

That is what I was saying. I actually don't think it will turn into "ECW" either, but I just said that because when the releases were going down, that was speculated heavily on here.

 

The only reason I thought of that angle with some wrestlers that were released getting inspired by Matt was WWE's new direction on their website and angles, like you stated.

 

If anything, this *could* lead to a ROH quasi-invasion.

[RedJed 0]

OK so its the next day after this, and from all reliable sources, it sounds like all of that last night was a complete work. Even though I still question WWE allowing Hardy to mention ROH on TV, I got to give creative all of the credit in the world for putting this together. If they really play the cards right, this angle could be HUGE in terms of long term changing the face of the industry in playing into more worked shoots down the road and generally, playing up on the IWC alot more than ever before. Russo at times certainly did it wrong, this here to me seems like this is the right way to do a worked shoot in general terms. It baited me hardcore with me questioning shoot or work all night long last night. It was just unreal, period.

 

Now the problem is that I think Hardy is not going to get as over as he thinks he will by being back in WWE. Even though I am uber-excited to see how they build this program and then to see the Edge/Hardy matches, I think Hardy would have been best served in a ROH/TNA role as the outsider who got screwed and is going to be the next big wrestling star without WWE's help versus instead of going back to WWE and "selling out" to work off the real life situation. Now to save face, he is still working his bigger fans on his message board as well as the general IWC community by speculating he still might be on TNA this Sunday, etc. That is already coming back to bite him in the ass big time. The thing was that Hardy was getting so over with everyone because people thought he was "real" - they connected with the whole situation that was, I'm sure, legitimate but now its like Hardy turned all of that real emotional bond with his fans to decept everyone and is still continuing to do so. Its a sad state of affairs. While I think the feud will still be fun, I think Hardy will not get over from this after the feud is over and I wouldnt even put it past WWE to let him go again if it doesnt go as strong as they think it will. I know one thing - ROH fans are going to completely shit on him.

 

I guess I just thought Hardy had more of a backbone than this. This is the same company who fired one of his best friends last week (unless thats a work, too). This is the same guy who went to great lengths to connect with his fans by the whole Edge/Lita situation. And now this is the same guy who is using that connection to play into a worked feud, even still decieving the public about it, acting like he's still not a WWE employee.

 

One way or another, shit like this is why I love being a fan.

[Dangerous A 0]

If anything, this *could* lead to a ROH quasi-invasion.

 

 

I hate to shoot this down, but no way, no how. ROH isn't nearly big enough for it to make sense to the fans. I'd bet that maybe 3% of the audience even knows what ROH is, so no way WWE puts ROH guys out there to the sounds of crickets chirping and angles falling on their faces. WWE should just avoid any kind of Invasion/cross promotion type angles because they have shown they just flat out don't know how to do them correctly.

[bob_barron 0]

Cheech will invade WWE and thus change the face of the industry forever.

 

I mean really guys, have you seen how small the ROH guys are?

[Dangerous A 0]

WWE has no problem with Matt working with ROH because ROH is not a threat. TNA really isn't either, but TNA has zero working relationship with WWE, plus there is no way TNA puts a non contracted Matt Hardy on their PPV and TNA would be idiots to sign Hardy to a one shot appearance. ROH is strictly a 'net fanbase and has no aspirations of going national or trying to be bigger than it should be, so WWE doesn't have any issues with them.

[RedJed 0]

If anything, this *could* lead to a ROH quasi-invasion.

 

 

I hate to shoot this down, but no way, no how. ROH isn't nearly big enough for it to make sense to the fans. I'd bet that maybe 3% of the audience even knows what ROH is, so no way WWE puts ROH guys out there to the sounds of crickets chirping and angles falling on their faces. WWE should just avoid any kind of Invasion/cross promotion type angles because they have shown they just flat out don't know how to do them correctly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No way is there going to ever be a ROH invasion in WWE. People are playing up the ROH-WWE relationship way too far. In fact I dont think there IS a relationship, period.

[Dandy 0]

If anything, this *could* lead to a ROH quasi-invasion.

 

 

I hate to shoot this down, but no way, no how. ROH isn't nearly big enough for it to make sense to the fans. I'd bet that maybe 3% of the audience even knows what ROH is, so no way WWE puts ROH guys out there to the sounds of crickets chirping and angles falling on their faces. WWE should just avoid any kind of Invasion/cross promotion type angles because they have shown they just flat out don't know how to do them correctly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I agree. What I was thinking was related to the speculation that some of the releases might be worked. *If* a few of them *signed* with ROH, who is somewhat working with WWE right now, and WWE is/was interested in some of their wrestlers, it *could* happen. I was thinking that Hardy, a few of the wrestlers released (Dudleys, Haas, Morgan, Moore), and the wrestlers from ROH that the WWE are already interested in showed up on WWE programming. Not to take over, just to show up and have feuds, and they could eventually become part of WWE again/for the first time.

[Black Lushus 0]

oh and didn't he call her Lita?  if it was real you think he'd call her Amy, so there's one more work/shoot point...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'd just guess that he fucked up in the heat of the moment ... he remembered to call Edge by his real name but just screwed up when he called Lita by her 'stage name'. I figure he's spent the last few years reminding himself to refer to her by her wrestling name while at a wrestling event and then just slipped up and forgot that he was allowed to/supposed to call her "Amy".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It was a work people!!!!!!!!!!!!!! wake the f* up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

we know it's a work, you newbie douchebag, learn to read before you try getting snippy on folks...

[bob_barron 0]

None of the previous releases were works. I mean, all these people have been fired and are looking for work

[Dangerous A 0]

I'd have no problem with WWE signing some ROH guys, but as bob pointed out, most of them are really small and we all know what Vince and Co. think of the small people. At least if WWE signs some of those guys, they could at least make some decent pay while doing something they love.

 

On target, but sort of off topic, I don't know why WWE hasn't given Colt Cabana more of a look. The guy isn't terribly small, can work his ass off in the ring, and has a great, versatile personality.

[Dandy 0]

Well, I think the relationship is strictly this:

 

WWE: We know that you have a loyal following and some very talented wrestlers that we are interested in. We have no problem with letting Foley appear and do some major angles for you, and we would in return like to give your guys some tryouts matches here and there. Feel free to mention us as the bad guys in some of your angles.

 

ROH: We know that if some of our wrestlers were to get signed by you, it would be a huge step for them financially and successfully as you are considered to be the pinnacle of wrestling promotions, especially right now. We can have a mutual friendship, because our goal isn't to become mainstream and oppose you.

[Guest TheGreatWesuke]

If anything, this *could* lead to a ROH quasi-invasion.

 

 

I hate to shoot this down, but no way, no how. ROH isn't nearly big enough for it to make sense to the fans. I'd bet that maybe 3% of the audience even knows what ROH is, so no way WWE puts ROH guys out there to the sounds of crickets chirping and angles falling on their faces. WWE should just avoid any kind of Invasion/cross promotion type angles because they have shown they just flat out don't know how to do them correctly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I absolutely think they are working together, much like Vince worked with ECW. There WON'T be an invasion angle, but they will use ROH to develop guys then promptly steal them, while at the same time attempt to keep them from going to TNA.

[Dandy 0]

None of the previous releases were works. I mean, all these people have been fired and are looking for work

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I tend to agree to that , Bob, but with the recent direction of the company in some aspects, and the post-release interviews, there is a possibility, however slight that may be. Most, if not all, are still getting paid by the WWE for their 90 day clause. They could however, have not been released, take some bookings with ROH, and it would be eerily similar to Hardy's situation, even though he was legitimately released.

[dubq 0]

They ARE working together. It's been rumored and reported numerous times.

[bob_barron 0]

We have no problem with letting Foley appear and do some major angles for you

 

Foley isn't under contract with WWE. He can do whatever he wants.

[bob_barron 0]

None of the previous releases were works. I mean, all these people have been fired and are looking for work

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I tend to agree to that , Bob, but with the recent direction of the company in some aspects, and the post-release interviews, there is a possibility, however slight that may be. Most, if not all, are still getting paid by the WWE for their 90 day clause. They could however, have not been released, take some bookings with ROH, and it would be eerily similar to Hardy's situation, even though he was legitimately released.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

But none of them will work ROH until their 90 days are up anyway. I mean according to Meltzer, if this is a work then the people who were fired don't know.

[Dangerous A 0]

If anything, this *could* lead to a ROH quasi-invasion.

 

 

I hate to shoot this down, but no way, no how. ROH isn't nearly big enough for it to make sense to the fans. I'd bet that maybe 3% of the audience even knows what ROH is, so no way WWE puts ROH guys out there to the sounds of crickets chirping and angles falling on their faces. WWE should just avoid any kind of Invasion/cross promotion type angles because they have shown they just flat out don't know how to do them correctly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I absolutely think they are working together, much like Vince worked with ECW. There WON'T be an invasion angle, but they will use ROH to develop guys then promptly steal them, while at the same time attempt to keep them from going to TNA.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Basically, you are saying that ROH is WWE's farm system.

 

Sort of. WWE doesn't mind guys working there as opposed to TNA. ROH does it's thing and WWE let's it be. Sure, WWE isn't going to be sending any of it's top guys to a show or anything, but since ROH doesn't have TV and the only way to watch their shows is DVD, they let them run with their blessing. At the same time, ROH realizes that it can't pay their workers anything near what WWE or even TNA can pay, so if a guy gets a deal because of ROH exposure, ROH is ok with it.

[Dandy 0]

We have no problem with letting Foley appear and do some major angles for you

 

Foley isn't under contract with WWE. He can do whatever he wants.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

But he is still listed on their Raw superstars page, makes the occasional appearance, and reports the progress/talent of the ROH guys to Vince and Co. He is more than likely still on the payroll in some capacity.

[bob_barron 0]

But he is still listed on their Raw superstars page, makes the occasional appearance, and reports the progress/talent of the ROH guys to Vince and Co. He is more than likely still on the payroll in some capacity.

 

Yea but Foley works indies all the time, just not ROH. WWE isn't letting him work ROH or anything, Foley does it on his own time.

[Dandy 0]

But none of them will work ROH until their 90 days are up anyway. I mean according to Meltzer, if this is a work then the people who were fired don't know.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Well, just saying *if*, but if the release was fabricated, they could hypothetically take bookings for ROH while they are still under WWE contract. I actually don't believe it, but with a hint of possibility, I think it's fun to discuss it.

[Dandy 0]

Yea but Foley works indies all the time, just not ROH. WWE isn't letting him work ROH or anything, Foley does it on his own time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

He still reports back to WWE, though. That is what I'm saying.

[dubq 0]

Yea but Foley works indies all the time, just not ROH. WWE isn't letting him work ROH or anything, Foley does it on his own time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

He still reports back to WWE, though. That is what I'm saying.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If he doesn't have a contract, he doesn't report to them. End of story.

[Dandy 0]

Yea but Foley works indies all the time, just not ROH. WWE isn't letting him work ROH or anything, Foley does it on his own time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

He still reports back to WWE, though. That is what I'm saying.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If he doesn't have a contract, he doesn't report to them. End of story.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I thought it was reported around the time Foley was feuding with Somoa Joe that Foley was reporting on some of the talent to Vince. I also think he is under contract, but if he is not, I see both your and Bob's points.

[nl5xsk1 0]

My view on the 'relationship' between the WWE and ROH is simple: if the WWE helps them (be it financially, by sharing workers, or just by acknowledging each other's existance) it hurts TNA.

 

A lot of 'smart' fans think of either TNA or ROH as being the #2 fed in the States. If the WWE can have a good relationship with the one, it'll hurt the other.

 

 

we know it's a work, you newbie douchebag, learn to read before you try getting snippy on folks...

Lushus ... are you shooting on the Greek or is it just all a work?

[Guest Brian]

I wonder if their relationship with ROH is being used to keep Heyman in check, because they (WWE) know that if Heyman wants to start upa promotion or what-not, he would have to run right up againt ROH and thus have it very, very difficult from the start, and thus they keep him under control.

[bob_barron 0]

Gabe was Heyman's right hand man in ECW for years though

[AlaskanHero 0]

Yea but Foley works indies all the time, just not ROH. WWE isn't letting him work ROH or anything, Foley does it on his own time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

He still reports back to WWE, though. That is what I'm saying.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If he doesn't have a contract, he doesn't report to them. End of story.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I thought it was reported around the time Foley was feuding with Somoa Joe that Foley was reporting on some of the talent to Vince. I also think he is under contract, but if he is not, I see both your and Bob's points.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Foley is under contract. He has a "Playground Clause" or something like that. Basically, he can do as he pleases on the indies and if he feels like coming back to WWE to do an angle of something, the door is open for him to do so. Mick also scouts potential signees with Samoa Joe and CM Punk being two guys Mick said were ready to be signed.

[Gary Floyd 0]

I have watched Professional Wrestling for 10 years. So far, while there has been moments that suprised me, nothing really shocked me. Well, that is, until last night, when Matt Hardy returned.