Backlash on Terrorist Angle

[zyn081 0]

Right because if London hadn't happened there WOULDN'T have been people around the states with family over in Iraq fighting who couldn't possibly be offended at what they saw, right?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

First of all, if people find the time to reply to me, please take a moment out to read my post in the other thread on exactly the same topic.

 

No, I never said that. But as I said to RRR, hearing what happened in London would have awakened those bad memories of Iraq. And then you sit down and see what happened on SD.

 

The offense it caused was magnified and heightened due to what happened in London, making it 1000 times worse.

 

And to compare like with like, I would say that 9/11 is more comparable to London and the terrorist angle that was run on SD than the fighting in Iraq.

[Guest Fishyswa]

"To preface, I don't really give a shit about the angle, but to say the WWE didn't know what they were doing is retarded."

 

That's not what I'm saying, I'm saying they knew exactly what they were doing, and they did it perfectly.

 

"They carried out Daivari like a martyr."

 

A religious thing.

 

"They prayed."

 

Religious.

 

"They dressed like terrorists."

 

There is no terrorist uniform, if there was, they'd be much easier to find.

 

"They mimed an action that would cut someone's throat."

 

THEY CHOKED HIM OUT. Hassan said CHOKE HIM OUT. There was no beheading or throat cutting involved.

 

"And (here's something I missed when i watched) apparently Hassan held up Taker's head sort of like a trophy."

 

Caught it on SD, saw the replay on Velocity, that never happened.

 

"They did ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING they could have besides have a plane fly a banner saying "this attack is meant to invoke terrorism" above the arena. Stop trying to cut them slack. even the WWE has basically ADMITTED they were trying to do a terrorist angle."

 

Where? NOWHERE have they admitted this was a "terrorist angle". Nowhere.

 

"No they didn't explicitly say "these are terrorists." They knew they couldn't do that. But besides that, you have eyes and ears and a brain. Make the small, logical connections."

 

But that's the point, they didn't make the connections. They left it open for a perfect "You assume I'm a terrorist because" promo, and it would of been great if people were able to differentiate reality from a wrestling angle. Of course we all know how that ended up....

[bob_barron 0]

The quote button is your friend

[zyn081 0]

The quote button is your friend

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

LOL, very true.

[bob_barron 0]

"To preface, I don't really give a shit about the angle, but to say the WWE didn't know what they were doing is retarded."

 

That's not what I'm saying, I'm saying they knew exactly what they were doing, and they did it perfectly.

 

"They carried out Daivari like a martyr."

 

A religious thing.

 

"They prayed."

 

Religious.

 

"They dressed like terrorists."

 

There is no terrorist uniform, if there was, they'd be much easier to find.

 

"They mimed an action that would cut someone's throat."

 

THEY CHOKED HIM OUT. Hassan said CHOKE HIM OUT. There was no beheading or throat cutting involved.

 

"And (here's something I missed when i watched) apparently Hassan held up Taker's head sort of like a trophy."

 

Caught it on SD, saw the replay on Velocity, that never happened.

 

"They did ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING they could have besides have a plane fly a banner saying "this attack is meant to invoke terrorism" above the arena. Stop trying to cut them slack. even the WWE has basically ADMITTED they were trying to do a terrorist angle."

 

Where? NOWHERE have they admitted this was a "terrorist angle". Nowhere.

 

"No they didn't explicitly say "these are terrorists." They knew they couldn't do that. But besides that, you have eyes and ears and a brain. Make the small, logical connections."

 

But that's the point, they didn't make the connections. They left it open for a perfect "You assume I'm a terrorist because" promo, and it would of been great if people were able to differentiate reality from a wrestling angle. Of course we all know how that ended up....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

They're obviously not going to come right out and refer to Hassan and Daivari as terrorists. But if you can't see the connections in what they did, then you're really stupid.

[dubq 0]

Amidst all this talk about London and the timing of the angle and Hassan's character in general, you know who should be getting the lion's share of sympathy and attention? Daivari. You know, the guy who's actually an Arab-American. "Hassan", no matter what shit he has to put up with for this angle, gets to sleep at night knowing he's just another Italian American who really doesn't have to deal with this. But Daivari lives day to day knowing that he's helping foment nationwide hatred of his people all in the name of "entertainment". God only knows how many threats he gets from ill-mannered jingoistic fans who don't know how to separate reality from fantasy. And how badly do you think he must have felt when the London incident happened, knowing what was in store on Thursday?

 

I'm probably only feeling this because I think he's a much better wrestler and performer than "Hassan", and he deserves way better than this.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think he's of Persian [read: Iranian] descent, actually... but either way, I hear what you're saying. He's automatically stereotyped into that background regardless..

[Dangerous A 0]

In WWE world, Davairi is stereotyped into that background because they HAVE to play up to racial caricatures.

 

Sonjay Dutt works TNA and they aren't doing any "I'm Arab-American and mad about it" type angles with him. If Dutt was in WWE, he'd be cannon fodder just like Davairi is.

[dubq 0]

Always seems the same way with WWE and ethnicities/nationalities... remember the Tiger Ali Singh "I'm not a taxi cab driver" gimmick?

 

I've also noticed that every "middle eastern" themed character has used the Camel Clutch as their primary or one of their finishers. From the Iron Sheik to Tiger Ali Singh to the Sultan [Rikishi] and now Hassan. PROBABLY BECAUSE THEY ALL RIDE CAMELS WHERE THEY'RE FROM - GET IT?! Stupid WWE...

[notJames 0]

…I think he's of Persian [read: Iranian] descent, actually... but either way, I hear what you're saying. He's automatically stereotyped into that background regardless..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

D'oh! Thanks for the info. And DA's right. WW_ doesn't have to play it up… they just choose to dumb it down for the masses who probably wouldn't see Daivari as anything but a "damn foreigner" anyway. Sad commentary on both Vince and Co. and the world in general.

[dubq 0]

…I think he's of Persian [read: Iranian] descent, actually... but either way, I hear what you're saying. He's automatically stereotyped into that background regardless..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

D'oh! Thanks for the info. And DA's right. WW_ doesn't have to play it up… they just choose to dumb it down for the masses who probably wouldn't see Daivari as anything but a "damn foreigner" anyway. Sad commentary on both Vince and Co. and the world in general.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I have a friend who is Persian, and he deals with the same shit.. no death threats, but general racism [ie: on the level of some white chick clutching at her purse if a black guy sat beside her on the bus] - and the best part of it for him is that he's a paramedic.. so the jerks pretty much have to shut up because he's the one saving their life or making sure they get to the hospital asap.

[Guest]

"They carried out Daivari like a martyr."

 

A religious thing.

 

"They prayed."

 

Religious.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So next time HBK wins a match, has an interview or attacks someone I want him to get down on his knees and pray to God afterwards.

[Exslade ZX 0]

Well, I have to say it really sucks the promo up on WWE.com won't be shown on SD, because it's actually a very good promo, and also, completely true.

[zyn081 0]

So next time HBK wins a match, has an interview or attacks someone I want him to get down on his knees and pray to God afterwards.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Another reason to hate HBK.

[Guest]

But yet some of you are justifying Hassan praying as just a religious thing? Now I want everyone to pray and I don't care what religion they are.

[dubq 0]

Well, I have to say it really sucks the promo up on WWE.com won't be shown on SD, because it's actually a very good promo, and also, completely true.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Agreed. Hassan is actually pretty good on the mic from what I've seen so far.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Hassan's voice cracks way too much when he's trying to get "angry" or "serious" thus ruining any sense of menace he could convey.

[DokDoyle 0]

"To preface, I don't really give a shit about the angle, but to say the WWE didn't know what they were doing is retarded."

 

That's not what I'm saying, I'm saying they knew exactly what they were doing, and they did it perfectly.

 

"They carried out Daivari like a martyr."

 

A religious thing.

 

"They prayed."

 

Religious.

 

"They dressed like terrorists."

 

There is no terrorist uniform, if there was, they'd be much easier to find.

 

"They mimed an action that would cut someone's throat."

 

THEY CHOKED HIM OUT. Hassan said CHOKE HIM OUT. There was no beheading or throat cutting involved.

 

"And (here's something I missed when i watched) apparently Hassan held up Taker's head sort of like a trophy."

 

Caught it on SD, saw the replay on Velocity, that never happened.

 

"They did ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING they could have besides have a plane fly a banner saying "this attack is meant to invoke terrorism" above the arena. Stop trying to cut them slack. even the WWE has basically ADMITTED they were trying to do a terrorist angle."

 

Where? NOWHERE have they admitted this was a "terrorist angle". Nowhere.

 

"No they didn't explicitly say "these are terrorists." They knew they couldn't do that. But besides that, you have eyes and ears and a brain. Make the small, logical connections."

 

But that's the point, they didn't make the connections. They left it open for a perfect "You assume I'm a terrorist because" promo, and it would of been great if people were able to differentiate reality from a wrestling angle. Of course we all know how that ended up....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

They're obviously not going to come right out and refer to Hassan and Daivari as terrorists. But if you can't see the connections in what they did, then you're really stupid.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

 

I think that's the point he is making. You assume it's Terrorist activities because of who did it.

 

Let's take Muhummad and Davari out of it. If JBL and the cabinet did the EXACT same thing to the Undertaker, would it be getting all this attention? of course not, as it's a just a wrestling angle.

 

That's all this was, a wrestling angle that's had a lot more thrown on it then it deserves. I wasn't offended by the angle, I actually don't mind the Muhummad and Davari characters.

 

People just need to sit back and relax a little bit. Not everything is a controversy wating to be looked at

[notJames 0]

But you can't take Hassan and Daivari out of the equation because WW_ tailored their characters specifically to play on anti-Arab sentiment. The angle was designed to evoke images of terrorist activity, whether they spell it out or not. You can't argue that it's just a wrestling angle simply by replacing the characters in it. The storylines would play out so differently if it didn't have the anti-Arab element in it. To say otherwise is turning a blind eye to the original thought process (or lack thereof) that created it.

 

I'm not saying I was offended by it. Personally, Hassan and Undertaker are "wrestlers" I don't really pay attention to to begin with. But I do have to question the lengths to which WW_ is willing to prey upon the (unfortunate) prevailing "us against them" attitude that the average wrestling audience seems to engender. Especially when the spectre of war and terrorism is still a fact of life that much of the world still lives with.

[Guest Fishyswa]

THANK YOU DokDoyle. I'm glad someone see's what I've said.

 

And bob it's just easier than typing out the tags on quick reply.

 

"But you can't take Hassan and Daivari out of the equation because WW_ tailored their characters specifically to play on anti-Arab sentiment."

 

Yeah but sensibly, it's done nothing but expose the prejudice people already have. I see no reason to believe this wasn't gonna be more of the same.

 

"The angle was designed to evoke images of terrorist activity, whether they spell it out or not."

 

But why they don't spell it out is important, one promo saying he bring help to attack taker and people call him a terrorist, just because he's Arab, and wham, the entire thing is flipped on it's head. Instead we get a Velocity promo posted on WWE.com because a bunch of people seem to think wrestling isn't another form of creative art gone business.

[Guest jumpingbombangel]

I think that's the point he is making. You assume it's Terrorist activities because of who did it.

 

Let's take Muhummad and Davari out of it. If JBL and the cabinet did the EXACT same thing to the Undertaker, would it be getting all this attention? of course not, as it's a just a wrestling angle.

 

That's all this was, a wrestling angle that's had a lot more thrown on it then it deserves. I wasn't offended by the angle, I actually don't mind the Muhummad and Davari characters.

 

People just need to sit back and relax a little bit. Not everything is a controversy wating to be looked at

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

How you gonna take Hassan and Daivari out of it when it's obvious the whole attack and the way it was carried out was written with "SAAND PEEEOPLE" all over it? They could have written the attack on UT in a different way that didn't conjure such a feeling, but they didn't because they wanted to be all ballsy. I'm glad the WWE is spinning on this now because it makes them all look even more stupid.

 

I agree with you on one point...it's a wrestling angle that had a lot thrown on it, but what was slathered and covered all over it was terrorist-evoking images...completely unnecesary on the WWE's part. I would have hated the sons of bitches for a lot more reasons than just "Taker, let's play like Nick Berg, kay? LOL!"

[Guest Fishyswa]

These "beheading" comparisons are ridiculous. I don't know if it shows how badly skewed we are as a country or how quick people are to reach for the most convenient conclusion when it comes to this thing.

[Crimson Platypus 0]

I think that's the point he is making. You assume it's Terrorist activities because of who did it.

 

Let's take Muhummad and Davari out of it. If JBL and the cabinet did the EXACT same thing to the Undertaker, would it be getting all this attention? of course not, as it's a just a wrestling angle.

 

That's all this was, a wrestling angle that's had a lot more thrown on it then it deserves. I wasn't offended by the angle, I actually don't mind the Muhummad and Davari characters.

 

People just need to sit back and relax a little bit. Not everything is a controversy wating to be looked at

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

How you gonna take Hassan and Daivari out of it when it's obvious the whole attack and the way it was carried out was written with "SAAND PEEEOPLE" all over it? They could have written the attack on UT in a different way that didn't conjure such a feeling, but they didn't because they wanted to be all ballsy. I'm glad the WWE is spinning on this now because it makes them all look even more stupid.

 

I agree with you on one point...it's a wrestling angle that had a lot thrown on it, but what was slathered and covered all over it was terrorist-evoking images...completely unnecesary on the WWE's part. I would have hated the sons of bitches for a lot more reasons than just "Taker, let's play like Nick Berg, kay? LOL!"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

The point he's trying to make is that Arab-American and Muslim does NOT = terrorist. Period. Yet everyone was real quick to jump to that conclusion. That's why he said to take Hassan and Daivari out of it. If you replace them with two white guys from Kansas no one would have jumped to the terrorist conclusion. Period. PERIOD.

[Guest jumpingbombangel]

The point he's trying to make is that Arab-American and Muslim does NOT = terrorist. Period. Yet everyone was real quick to jump to that conclusion. That's why he said to take Hassan and Daivari out of it. If you replace them with two white guys from Kansas no one would have jumped to the terrorist conclusion. Period. PERIOD.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So why didn't they write a different type of attack for Hassan and Davari so they wouldn't have to go back and explain all this to people? It's just another case of the WWE trying to recapture its old shock value and it bit them in the ass. Again, it's a good thing.

[Crimson Platypus 0]

They choked him. That's it. What's so bad about choking? Oh wait terrorists behead people. Hang on a second...

 

be·head ( P ) Pronunciation Key (b-hd)

tr.v. be·head·ed, be·head·ing, be·heads

To separate the head from; decapitate.

 

 

choke ( P ) Pronunciation Key (chk)

v. choked, chok·ing, chokes

v. tr.

To interfere with the respiration of by compression or obstruction of the larynx or trachea.

 

To check or slow down the movement, growth, or action of: a garden that was choked by weeds.

To block up or obstruct by filling or clogging: Mud choked the drainpipe.

To fill up completely; jam: Major commuter arteries were choked with stalled traffic.

To reduce the air intake of (a carburetor), thereby enriching the fuel mixture.

Sports. To grip (a bat or racket, for example) at a point nearer the hitting surface.

 

 

Nope, not the same thing. Not even close. Hell they aren't even synonyms of each other.

[Guest jumpingbombangel]

Nope, not the same thing. Not even close. Hell they aren't even synonyms of each other.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So people are not to make the connection of hooded men gathered around UT to choke him (of course they wouldn't behead the bastard, that's murder) to hooded terrorists beheading a captive? I'm sorry, the WWE doesn't have me under it's grip that badly to where I can just say "aw, hell, that doesn't have ANYTHING to do with what's going on in Iraq!"

 

If they have you by the shorthairs that badly to where you'd spin right along with them, then that's all you, ace. Feel free.

[Guest Fishyswa]

"So people are not to make the connection of hooded men gathered around UT to choke him (of course they wouldn't behead the bastard, that's murder) to hooded terrorists beheading a captive?"

 

No, why the hell would anyone? They didn't have him in some cave tied up, they weren't recording a video tape, they ambushed him and choked him out. The only reason you jump to beheading is camo, ski masks and Hassan playing an Arab? Come on....

 

Infact, make it Orlando Jordan and Benjamin, people would assume the WWE's going the black panther route....

 

"I'm sorry, the WWE doesn't have me under it's grip that badly to where I can just say "aw, hell, that doesn't have ANYTHING to do with what's going on in Iraq!""

 

No I'd say general media has a pretty good grip. You see masked men beating someone in a group and right away your brain jumps to images of guys getting beheaded by terrorists. Quite a leap.

[bobobrazil1984 0]

the "timing" issue should be secondary to the fact that they wrote such a retarded tasteless mornic angle in the first place, hell the fact that they went down this shitty route with a character in the first place.

 

Then again, it's Vince. "Shitty Tasteless angles are what we do BEST!!!"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No, in no way is it secondary. The Hassan angle has been running since the end of 2004. If London wasnt attacked, what happened on last weeks SD wouldnt be generating as much discussion. Its all about the timing.

 

If all you can say is thank god that the angle is finally scrapped, please just say nothing. Its not just me who is saying that its all about the timing and that its UPN's fault. People clearly havent yet understood my 1st post, so check out exibits A, B and C below that other people here have stated.

 

 

read my post again... SHOULD be secondary. Not is secondary. clearly the timing has the majority of the people fussing, thohgh i was against this shit from the day hassan's character started.

 

Oh yeah, and, thank god that the angle is finally scrapped.

[Crimson Platypus 0]

Nope, not the same thing. Not even close. Hell they aren't even synonyms of each other.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So people are not to make the connection of hooded men gathered around UT to choke him (of course they wouldn't behead the bastard, that's murder) to hooded terrorists beheading a captive? I'm sorry, the WWE doesn't have me under it's grip that badly to where I can just say "aw, hell, that doesn't have ANYTHING to do with what's going on in Iraq!"

 

If they have you by the shorthairs that badly to where you'd spin right along with them, then that's all you, ace. Feel free.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

They weren't "hooded" skippy. They had ski-masks on. You know, the kind you can buy at any sporting goods store. Along with the pants they had on. You know exactly who they were right? So then you must know that was why they had that stuff on. I'll spell it out for you, so that Val Venis and company were not recognized as being with Hassan. I'll admit that it would have been more effective if they had paid a bunch of local wrestlers or indy guys (same thing I guess) to do it without masks, but whatever.

 

I'm not under the WWE's grip, as you put it, I just don't jump to racist conclusions easily.

[Guest jumpingbombangel]

"I'm sorry, the WWE doesn't have me under it's grip that badly to where I can just say "aw, hell, that doesn't have ANYTHING to do with what's going on in Iraq!""

 

No I'd say general media has a pretty good grip. You see masked men beating someone in a group and right away your brain jumps to images of guys getting beheaded by terrorists. Quite a leap.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Mm-hm. And the WWE couldn't have written the attack any differently? They wanted you to think of terrorism regardless of the spin they put on it.

 

Hell, edit...this is the same company that had Slaughter and Adnan burn a Hogan T-shirt (in place of a US flag) not damn 14 years ago. I guess it was cool because he really didn't mean it, it being wrestling and all.

[notJames 0]

Let's fill in the blanks you seem so adamant about leaving behind:

 

"You see masked men wearing faux-army fatigues beating someone and using a garotte to evoke images of removing one's head from one's body in a group led by an Arab-American who consistently decries what in his mind is a prevalent anti-Arab sentiment, which then carries away their fallen comrade in a ritualistic display of honour for sacrifice and right away your brain jumps to images of guys getting beheaded by terrorists. Quite a leap.

 

Is it starting to sink in yet?

 

And stop with the "replace A with B" strawman tactics, because it doesn't hold water.