CanadianGuitarist Posted July 17, 2005 Report Posted July 17, 2005 The Canucks are not chokers, they are overrated. They choked vs Detroit, but have been vastly overrated in the past 2 years be eveyone. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I disagree. Burke is by far the best GM in hockey, and made Vancouver a great team on and off the ice. Naslund, Morrison, Bertuzzi may very well have been hockey's best line, and the Sedins with (insert anyone here) made for a high octane second line. I found Vancouver to be probably the closest to being the best threat for a Canadian team to win Stanley's mug. A great mix of Canadian style, European style hockey, leaders, great locker room guys, rising young players, and a solid defence core. Cloutier was clearly the problem.
Guest Rrrsh Posted July 17, 2005 Report Posted July 17, 2005 The Canucks are not chokers, they are overrated. They choked vs Detroit, but have been vastly overrated in the past 2 years be eveyone. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I disagree. Burke is by far the best GM in hockey, and made Vancouver a great team on and off the ice. Naslund, Morrison, Bertuzzi may very well have been hockey's best line, and the Sedins with (insert anyone here) made for a high octane second line. I found Vancouver to be probably the closest to being the best threat for a Canadian team to win Stanley's mug. A great mix of Canadian style, European style hockey, leaders, great locker room guys, rising young players, and a solid defence core. Cloutier was clearly the problem. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> From a person who watches every game, a closer look into teh team shows that there is a lot of problems. A: The Sedins are not a second line players. The points don't show it, and they never have. They are far too inconsistant and would be 3rd liners anywhere else. But there Burkes boys, so they need ice time B: They have maybe the worst second team power play unit in the league. This is mainly due to it being the Sedins. (who even if you think they are good, their strengths are not in a 5-4 game, half ice game) Linden, Klatt and Advenson have been the other guy there, when it always should have been Cooke. C: They cannot play defence around the net. Mike Johnson is the X and O's guy, and hopefully the rumors are true that Burke wanst to steal him. He is aweful. Take any game in the past three years, and its almost a garentee that somebody chased the puck when they shouldn't or just got lost and their man got free in front of the net. D: At least half of their defence cant skate, are not defensivly sound and dont play big in front of the net. Salo, Malik and Sopel all fall into this. Yah, they have offencive upside, but they are massive defensive liabilities. Jovo already is an average defensman, but he has great offensive upside. So when that is the case on your team, you need to compansate with physical defensman in your own end who is responsable. Maliek, Sopel and Salo are not. E: Too many skilled Offensive players dont get chances from the minors because they are not defesivly sound. I am not sure if its Burke or Crow or who, but someone is convinced that every guy who gets brought up from the farm needs to play D like Chubarov. We kill all our offensive prospects early, thats why King and Fedorov have failed.
stahl Posted July 17, 2005 Report Posted July 17, 2005 You can't give someone the Vezina for the ability to "project" their stats to make them better. Of course not, I was using a comparison. Belfour beats Brodeur hands down in the stats catagory except for wins, which if Belfour played as many games as Brodeur did, he would beat him in that as well. Belfour had a way better statistical year then Brodeur but Brodeur won the vezina. Brodeur is probably the best goalie in the world but for the last NHL season, he wasn't the best goalie yet won the award.
Guest Olympic Slam Posted July 17, 2005 Report Posted July 17, 2005 For everyone arguing about which goalies are better than others: You can throw everything out the window if the pad sizes are drastically reduced to 80's or 90's dimensions. Beloved "minimum movement" netminders may falter. The smaller the pads get, the more it favors the agile reflex goalies. I know, God forbid goalies actually have to MOVE to stop the puck. I think the Sharks may sort of kind of regret trading Kipprusoff. He's way more agile than the "stand there and let the puck hit me" tandem of Nabokov and Toskala. If your team's GM is smart, he'll scour the minors, Europe, the free agency pool for the most durable reflex goalies as insurance policies. That means we can start the countdown until the Chris Terrerri comeback. Someone should hire me as a scout now. Wisdom like this is worth at least an internship.
LaParkaMarka Posted July 18, 2005 Report Posted July 18, 2005 I was bored today, so I made a little page that randomly generates a possible order for the draft lottery, according to the new lottery rules. Check it out here.
Red Baron Posted July 18, 2005 Report Posted July 18, 2005 The Canucks are not chokers, they are overrated. They choked vs Detroit, but have been vastly overrated in the past 2 years be eveyone. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I disagree. Burke is by far the best GM in hockey, and made Vancouver a great team on and off the ice. Naslund, Morrison, Bertuzzi may very well have been hockey's best line, and the Sedins with (insert anyone here) made for a high octane second line. I found Vancouver to be probably the closest to being the best threat for a Canadian team to win Stanley's mug. A great mix of Canadian style, European style hockey, leaders, great locker room guys, rising young players, and a solid defence core. Cloutier was clearly the problem. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Clearly he's right. You can analyze the whole teams weakness, but in playoffs when you don't have realibable goaltending you are going to lose. Cloutier let in a few softy goals which costed his team to advance further into the playoffs. When's the last time a team has won the cup with mediocore netminding.
smh810 Posted July 18, 2005 Report Posted July 18, 2005 Osgood was the exception not the rule though.
Dogbert Posted July 18, 2005 Report Posted July 18, 2005 Forgive my blatant bias, but I think Miikka Kiprusoff also qualifies here. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Mikka Kiprusoff can go to hell and die. Besides, Luongo and Brodeur are a million times better than him. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Then shouldn't one of them have set the GAA record last season?
CanadianGuitarist Posted July 18, 2005 Report Posted July 18, 2005 Osgood was the exception not the rule though. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You mean 2002. Osgood was there while Detroit won him yet anotrher cup. Mike Gartner doesn't have one though, for shit's sake.
Hogan Made Wrestling Posted July 18, 2005 Report Posted July 18, 2005 A: The Sedins are not a second line players. The points don't show it, and they never have. They are far too inconsistant and would be 3rd liners anywhere else. But there Burkes boys, so they need ice time If anything the numbers totally contradict your argument. In terms of both raw points and particularly points per ice time, Daniel is most definitely an effective 2nd line scorer, while Henrik is to a lesser extent. How many left wings in the NHL outscored Daniel Sedin last year? Answer: not very many. And even less did it with the sort of ice time he gets. He scored almost as many points as Rick Nash who gets worshipped despite producing under 60 points with massive ice time.
smh810 Posted July 18, 2005 Report Posted July 18, 2005 You mean 2002. Osgood was there while Detroit won him yet anotrher cup. Wrong. Hasek was Detroit's goalie in 02.
The Czech Republic Posted July 18, 2005 Report Posted July 18, 2005 Osgood was the exception not the rule though. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> He asked when was the last time a team won the Cup with a mediocre goaltender. I told him.
the max Posted July 18, 2005 Report Posted July 18, 2005 A: The Sedins are not a second line players. The points don't show it, and they never have. They are far too inconsistant and would be 3rd liners anywhere else. But there Burkes boys, so they need ice time If anything the numbers totally contradict your argument. In terms of both raw points and particularly points per ice time, Daniel is most definitely an effective 2nd line scorer, while Henrik is to a lesser extent. How many left wings in the NHL outscored Daniel Sedin last year? Answer: not very many. And even less did it with the sort of ice time he gets. He scored almost as many points as Rick Nash who gets worshipped despite producing under 60 points with massive ice time. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> To be fair to Nash, he has exactly one other offensive weapon. David Vyborny. After that, Columbus relies on such luminaries as Brian Holzinger and Andrew Cassels. Should Nikolai Zherdev play to his potential, that's another player to watch.
CanadianGuitarist Posted July 18, 2005 Report Posted July 18, 2005 A: The Sedins are not a second line players. The points don't show it, and they never have. They are far too inconsistant and would be 3rd liners anywhere else. But there Burkes boys, so they need ice time If anything the numbers totally contradict your argument. In terms of both raw points and particularly points per ice time, Daniel is most definitely an effective 2nd line scorer, while Henrik is to a lesser extent. How many left wings in the NHL outscored Daniel Sedin last year? Answer: not very many. And even less did it with the sort of ice time he gets. He scored almost as many points as Rick Nash who gets worshipped despite producing under 60 points with massive ice time. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> To be fair to Nash, he has exactly one other offensive weapon. David Vyborny. After that, Columbus relies on such luminaries as Brian Holzinger and Andrew Cassels. Should Nikolai Zherdev play to his potential, that's another player to watch. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Zherdev could be great. Sanderson and Cassels aren't all that rough, they could realistically get 15-20 a year. And they could have Crosby.
CanadianGuitarist Posted July 18, 2005 Report Posted July 18, 2005 You mean 2002. Osgood was there while Detroit won him yet anotrher cup. Wrong. Hasek was Detroit's goalie in 02. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ah yes. Forgot all about that. I was plastered when I wrote it, to be fair.
smh810 Posted July 18, 2005 Report Posted July 18, 2005 Ah yes. Forgot all about that. I was plastered when I wrote it, to be fair. Excuses...Excuses...
CanadianGuitarist Posted July 18, 2005 Report Posted July 18, 2005 Red Baron can attest to my hockey knowledge. He tried to name all my McDonald's replica hockey trophies. I beat him to it, and he sounded an awful lot like Patrick Star singing the campfire song trying to catch up. 2004-Khaibulin 2003-Brodeur 2002-Hasek 2001-Roy 2000-Brodeur 1999-Belfour 1998/97-Osgood 1996-Roy 95-Broduer 94-Richter 93-Roy 92/91-Barasso 90-Fuhr 89-Vernon 88- Fuhr 87-Fuhr 86-Roy 85-Fuhr 84-Fuhr 83-80 Billy Smith 79-76- Dryden 75-74- Parent I think my point's been illustrated, and I know you were just teasing, so
Red Baron Posted July 19, 2005 Report Posted July 19, 2005 Technically yes, but I think that season both goalies carried the load, like Fuhr/Moog did for the Oilers in the 80's
nl5xsk1 Posted July 19, 2005 Report Posted July 19, 2005 They split the PT in the regular season but I'm pretty sure Vernon got the bulk of time in the post-season that year.
Slingshot Suplex Posted July 19, 2005 Report Posted July 19, 2005 Vernon won the Conn Smythe in 97 as Playoff MVP
treble Posted July 19, 2005 Report Posted July 19, 2005 I guess TSN is going to be showing the draft lottery Friday afternoon at 4, I think. Too bad I have to work all day.
Prophet of Mike Zagurski Posted July 19, 2005 Report Posted July 19, 2005 I guess TSN is going to be showing the draft lottery Friday afternoon at 4, I think. Too bad I have to work all day. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I hope Crosby doesn't go to New York or Chicago. He needs to be on a winning team like Detroit, Boston, or St. Louis. (Ok those teams haven't won a Cup in awhile except for Detroit.) On second thought, Crosby go to New York and play with Mark Messier. Maybe they can recreate the 80's Oilers with Messier, Crosby, and Sather.
Vern Gagne Posted July 19, 2005 Report Posted July 19, 2005 Maybe if Messier wasn't 46 years old and washed up it might work.
Fartsauce Posted July 20, 2005 Author Report Posted July 20, 2005 Let's start making the predictions. I believe he will end up a Coyote but i'm hoping, praying, dreaming Edmonton gets #1.
the max Posted July 20, 2005 Report Posted July 20, 2005 Praying that the Bruins get him. Expecting him to end up with...hm...I'll just take a guess and say Detroit.
CanadianGuitarist Posted July 20, 2005 Report Posted July 20, 2005 I'm saying Buffalo. Don't know why, just think it.
LaParkaMarka Posted July 20, 2005 Report Posted July 20, 2005 The Rangers. They have a good statistical chance, and it would be in the best interests of the league. My heart of hearts wants him to go to Vancouver. It could happen. Watch Gary Bettman have a heart attack when he ends up in New Jersey.
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