So when is RVD coming back?

[NoCalMike 0]

I will admit that Cena is monster over, but I just have a feeling that a wannabee gangsta gimmick can only last so long. I just get this feeling that sooner or later his lame "raps" aren't going to go over very well in a city like NY or Philly or Boston, and the crowd actually boos him, and like most other instances, other cities follow in their footsteps. I mean his "raps" were never that good anyway, but they were at least tolerable when he was a heel, but his face material is downright awful.

 

What does this have to do with RVD in a thread I STARTED? I dunno...!?!

[Guest MikeSC]

I had thought Cena would last --- but I no doubt he'll go away. Dang.

 

As for Shelton, he's had better matches regularly than RVD had in 2 years.

[NoCalMike 0]

I had thought Cena would last --- but I no doubt he'll go away. Dang.

 

As for Shelton, he's had better matches regularly than RVD had in 2 years.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I like Shelton, I think he has tremendous upside, more then RVD who I also like, I mean for one, Shelton is a lot younger, and RVD with his moveset can only wrestle like that for so much longer and then he will be done, unless he can adapt to WWE style which he doesn't seem to have any interest in doing.

 

I wouldn't mind an RVD/Shelton program actually, it would be fun.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

That could apply to Robbie as much as Shelton right now and RVD has at least 6 years experience on him. RVD was given mic-time at ONS. More than Benjamin's ever had. And it was horrible.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's only your opinion, though. Most people seemed to like it. Don't their opinions matter?

 

I'm never gotten the whole "RVD can't talk" argument. It just seems like another unjust criticism of the guy that he pretty much proved wrong at ONS.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A whiny diatribe with some lame cheap pop lines was a good promo? It was shamefully bad. I was actually praying for Hunter to run out and talk instead. I first heard it and I was honestly floored people praised it. It was horrible.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It is true that RVD is not that great on the mic. I would never want him out there cutting twenty minute promos or carrying a main event program on the stick. But here's the thing about the ONS promo... maybe it didn't have a great delivery and maybe it wasn't overly entertaining, but at the end of it I really wanted to see the guy WRESTLE. The thing is, guys like JBL and Cena get praise for coming out every week and being so entertaining, but it literally means nothing in the long run. The RVD promo wasn't great in the traditional sense, but it brought out enough emotion to forget about everything for the moment and really root for the guy. That should be the goal of any promo.

 

And I think it's really unfair to bring up Shelton Benjamin in this discussion. The guy is going to be fantastic. Tremendous upside, athletic, good in the ring... but to think he is ready for a top face spot or to imply that he is at RVD's level right now is laughable. It's really putting too much on the guy at this point. He'll get there eventually. Right now, he has some good spots but doesn't put together that great of a match and hasn't shown much on the mic. I just think its premature to put him in this discussion because he still has time to get to the next level.

[NoCalMike 0]

The problem is that WWE likes to push young guys almost as a tease, and then pull the rug out from under them instantly and have them meander in the midcard for years to come.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

When Cena speaks, the arena literally stops. He has them in the palm of his hands. The only other person/people in very recent memory who have had that much control over the crowd is Austin and Hogan.

 

Have you seen an Austin promo from 1998? The crowd pops literally every time he pauses because they are so excited to see him. The crowd doesn't react to Cena the same way.

 

Maybe you haven't noticed in the live crowds the dozens of little kids with inflatable John Cena hands, stupid spinning necklaces and fake knucks. And Cena has been on Raw for a month. Smackdown was losing ratings w/ JBL as the champ, and there was a slow increase weekly when Cena won. If fans are leaving like you say they are, then new ones must be coming in to at least keep the ratings consistent.

 

He's not driving old fans away, but he's not bringing the fans that already left back, and he's not bringing in new fans (And if he's such a draw like Austin and Hogan, he should be). Add that to the fact that his gimmick is growing more stale by the week.

 

And if he's so big then fans should have tuned in to Smackdown regardless of if Cena had the belt. Did fans tune out in 98/99 when Austin wasn't champion?

 

In all these discussions, I keep hearing about what a great draw Cena is and how much he's doing for the product, but I honestly don't see where that is coming from. Reports are that there are tons of kids in the audience and that he's moving all kinds of merchandise.

 

But, the dude has been champ for close to 4 months now. There has been no postive gain in ratings, house show attendance or buyrates since he's been on top. This leads me to one of two conclusions:

 

a. the amount of people he is bringing into the arenas is being tremendously overstated

 

b. he's turning off just as many fans as he is bringing in

 

I could be wrong here, so please enlighten me if I am. Why do we keep calling this guy a draw? And before we get into this argument again, I know that he is over. I do not equate being over to being a draw.

[Da Maintenance Man 0]

I will admit that Cena is monster over, but I just have a feeling that a wannabee gangsta gimmick can only last so long.  I just get this feeling that sooner or later his lame "raps" aren't going to go over very well in a city like NY or Philly or Boston, and the crowd actually boos him, and like most other instances, other cities follow in their footsteps.  I mean his "raps" were never that good anyway, but they were at least tolerable when he was a heel, but his face material is downright awful.

 

What does this have to do with RVD in a thread I STARTED?  I dunno...!?!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I still don't see anything about Cena being "gangsta". He doesn't come out w/ bulletproof vests on & claim he's been shot 9 times.

 

I'll be glad when the world stops lookin at stuff in black & white.

[MrRant 0]

Then we'll move on to those Brown folks.

[Guest JMA]

But here's the thing about the ONS promo... maybe it didn't have a great delivery and maybe it wasn't overly entertaining, but at the end of it I really wanted to see the guy WRESTLE.  The thing is, guys like JBL and Cena get praise for coming out every week and being so entertaining, but it literally means nothing in the long run.  The RVD promo wasn't great in the traditional sense, but it brought out enough emotion to forget about everything for the moment and really root for the guy.  That should be the goal of any promo.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're right about the promo, of course. It wasn't the best promo ever, but it was good. And I judge it as "good" because it entertained the majority of the people watching it and made them get behind RVD. It can't be classified as "bad" if it accomplished those two things. After all, it is the fans who determine the quality of something.

[NoCalMike 0]

I will admit that Cena is monster over, but I just have a feeling that a wannabee gangsta gimmick can only last so long.  I just get this feeling that sooner or later his lame "raps" aren't going to go over very well in a city like NY or Philly or Boston, and the crowd actually boos him, and like most other instances, other cities follow in their footsteps.  I mean his "raps" were never that good anyway, but they were at least tolerable when he was a heel, but his face material is downright awful.

 

What does this have to do with RVD in a thread I STARTED?  I dunno...!?!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I still don't see anything about Cena being "gangsta". He doesn't come out w/ bulletproof vests on & claim he's been shot 9 times.

 

I'll be glad when the world stops lookin at stuff in black & white.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Oh please, you aren't serious right? The term "gangsta" has evolved a lot since "gangsta rap" but Cena sounds no different then most white kids yearning to act like tough guys that you see all over the mall or even at the grocery store. Either way, the gimmick is rather cheesy and IMO, has a short life compared to other ME gimmicks of the past five or so years.

 

And to those who think Cena is anywhere near the overness of Austin Rock -->

[NoCalMike 0]

The thing about RVD's promo at ONS isn't that it was bad, but everyone I know, including everyone on this board, had it all figured out ahead of time that RVD was going to come out and basically give the promo that Paul Heyman ended up making, so in that case, people were dissapointed a bit because RVD didn't insult WWE guys, but besides that ,the promo was decent, nothing special, but not bad.

[King Cucaracha 0]

If the RVD promo was on Raw instead of the ECW PPV, it would have gone without notice. Like the one he cut on Carlito. People marked for everything at ONS, good or not.

 

They need to do something new with RVD. They had the chance to turn him heel when Heyman was around and the Dudleyz turned, which they really need to do, because heel RVD smokes (pun intended) face RVD in terms of entertainment. If only for a couple of months to freshen his act. They also need to stop playing off the past, because that's all anyone including Van Dam does nowadays. I groaned when he wore the ECW t-shirt on RAW. He might as well have come out and said 'Hey, remember how cool I was in 1997'. Nostalgia doesn't draw shit in the long run, whether it's Hogan, whether it's Flair or whether it's RVD. The only line I remember from ONS was "Remember when I had a vocabulary". He had the chance to build a vocabulary at ONS, instead of bitching about the past. Heyman, that's fine, he was on-screen for the last time. Van Dam can't build any sort of momentum on being good in 97, good in 2001 and cutting a decent promo in 98.

 

If they do something NEW with him and he shows he still gives a shit, I'd be happy with Van Dam in the upper-mid level, maybe main event if he does well for himself.

 

Maybe not shooting on the company so much'd be a good idea too. A lot of the 'bad booking' and 'being held down' can be placed on his own head.

[cabbageboy 0]

Well to some degree RVD was handcuffed in ways Heyman wasn't. If RVD insulted half the WWE roster he'd eventually have to show up and work with those guys in the ring. Heyman on the other hand just said whatever he wanted and badmouthed everyone, knowing it didn't matter at the end of the night.

 

There's one problem with RVD turning heel: Raw desperately needs someone, ANYONE that the fans actually like. The face side of Raw is horrendous right now, and RVD could be in good shape on the face side as the #2 guy behind Cena. After that just wait for the inevitable Cena backlash and they'll have little choice but try him.

[Guest MikeSC]

But here's the thing about the ONS promo... maybe it didn't have a great delivery and maybe it wasn't overly entertaining, but at the end of it I really wanted to see the guy WRESTLE.  The thing is, guys like JBL and Cena get praise for coming out every week and being so entertaining, but it literally means nothing in the long run.  The RVD promo wasn't great in the traditional sense, but it brought out enough emotion to forget about everything for the moment and really root for the guy.  That should be the goal of any promo.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're right about the promo, of course. It wasn't the best promo ever, but it was good. And I judge it as "good" because it entertained the majority of the people watching it and made them get behind RVD. It can't be classified as "bad" if it accomplished those two things. After all, it is the fans who determine the quality of something.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The people watching it were behind him without him saying a word. Anybody not behind him, though, would have found it to be incredibly whiny.

Well to some degree RVD was handcuffed in ways Heyman wasn't. If RVD insulted half the WWE roster he'd eventually have to show up and work with those guys in the ring. Heyman on the other hand just said whatever he wanted and badmouthed everyone, knowing it didn't matter at the end of the night.

The problem with Heyman's shoot was that it was not a terribly good Heyman promo. I think it's painfully apparent that Edge doesn't care about Matt Hardy's name. He lives in spite of it. And JBL clearly doesn't care --- hell, the reactions of the people he was shooting on was more entertaining than the shoot.

 

Heyman's pre Survivor Series 2001 shoot was good. The ONS one was a weak, weak substitute.

[Guest JMA]

The thing about RVD's promo at ONS isn't that it was bad, but everyone I know, including everyone on this board, had it all figured out ahead of time that RVD was going to come out and basically give the promo that Paul Heyman ended up making, so in that case, people were dissapointed a bit because RVD didn't insult WWE guys, but besides that ,the promo was decent, nothing special, but not bad.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, I probably would've liked it even better if RVD had, say, insulted Triple H. He did go after JBL a bit, though.

[Guest Brian]

And Heyman cleared just about everything he said, which means RVD could have done the same.

[Guest JMA]

And Heyman cleared just about everything he said, which means RVD could have done the same.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hm. That's quite interesting. Perhaps RVD didn't want to gain the wrath of the wrestlers, so he attacked the writing team (which some of the wrestlers hate because they're Hollywood writers).

[Angle-plex 0]

I had thought Cena would last --- but I no doubt he'll go away. Dang.

 

As for Shelton, he's had better matches regularly than RVD had in 2 years.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What good matches has Shelton had? vs HBK was good, vs Benoit and vs Christian on RAW were ok, but everything else was either a spotfest (WrestleMania XXI) or sucked (vs Carlito, vs Jericho, vs Flair).

[Guest MikeSC]

The match v Jericho at BL most assuredly did not suck.

[Guest JMA]

I had thought Cena would last --- but I no doubt he'll go away. Dang.

 

As for Shelton, he's had better matches regularly than RVD had in 2 years.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What good matches has Shelton had? vs HBK was good, vs Benoit and vs Christian on RAW were ok, but everything else was either a spotfest (WrestleMania XXI) or sucked (vs Carlito, vs Jericho, vs Flair).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I never saw the matches with Jericho. Were they really that bad?

 

As for Flair vs. Shelton, that one didn't really click to me. It was a complete clash of styles and Flair's age most likely played a factor as well.

[bob_barron 0]

Shelton's match with Christian at Survivor Series is an underrated gem. I remember being really into that match, and the crowd getting into Shelton.

 

The three-way from the night after Wrestlemania XXI is another underrated gem from Shelton.

[Angle-plex 0]

The match v Jericho at BL most assuredly did not suck.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I honestly haven't seen it in a while, but I remember it being a bunch of spots with non-sense in between, and then the standard hot finish. Still, much better pacing than the Taboo Tuesday match.

 

As for Flair vs. Shelton, that one didn't really click to me. It was a complete clash of styles and Flair's age most likely played a factor as well.

 

Flair brought the match down a little since he can't do much anymore, but Shelton was just as bad. Flair was working Shelton's leg in the beginning, and when Shelton came back later in the match, he completely no-sold it. The he does he high spots and that's it.

 

Shelton/Xtian was pretty average. What was the night after WMXXI?

[bob_barron 0]

Shelton v. Jericho v. Christian- just an awesome match, better then most of the stuff at WM XXI.

 

Shelton v. Christian wasn't average, it was a fun face v. heel match, with Shelton one-upping Christian at every turn and had well timed spots with Tomko

[Guest JMA]

Shelton v. Christian wasn't average, it was a fun face v. heel match, with Shelton one-upping Christian at every turn and had well timed spots with Tomko

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tomko had well-timed spots? I'm skeptical. The guy always seems to fall down way too early.

[CanadianChick 0]

I'll be very interested when RVD comes back and when the Hardy/Edge program is done. Logically, he'll be the number two face (in terms of reaction), behind Cena because I get the feeling Hardy's heat will dry up when this feud is over. I know he probably won't get pushed as such, but he'll have to get some sort of higher profile feud because who else is a face on Raw? You've got Hogan, who I'm assuming is gone after Summerslam. The Big Show, who's currently doing the Masterlock and if that's an indication of anything, he won't be doing a whole lot of main eventing. Kane, who WWE is very tempermental on regarding main event status. Lastly, you've got Shelton, who is doing a whole lot of nothing right now. Really, looking at the lack of faces on Raw, I'm thinking Triple H is coming back as a face. And I really hope you does because Cena and RVD will triumph his reaction, only because he's been a heel for how long?

[NoCalMike 0]

The problem with Heyman's shoot was that it was not a terribly good Heyman promo. I think it's painfully apparent that Edge doesn't care about Matt Hardy's name. He lives in spite of it. And JBL clearly doesn't care --- hell, the reactions of the people he was shooting on was more entertaining than the shoot.

 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I think the "well hide your wives" part was funnier and more insulting then saying "Matt Freaking Hardy"

[Angle-plex 0]

Shelton v. Jericho v. Christian- just an awesome match, better then most of the stuff at WM XXI.

 

Don' think I saw this...

 

Shelton v. Christian wasn't average, it was a fun face v. heel match, with Shelton one-upping Christian at every turn and had well timed spots with Tomko

 

It was just a bunch of moves thrown together until the move, pin, two count, move, pin, two count, repeat, repeat, repeat finish. Nothing built to anything. Plus the crowd wasn't into it. Pretty boring offense from Christian and the usual Shelton spots, including the infamous "Grad my foot and the spin it around so it goes back into your face" move.