The OAO Raw Thread for 07.25.05

[The Amazing Rando 0]

I liked the table at the top of the ramp. It made for easier guest commentary.

[cabbageboy 0]

Exslade, it's not so much a matter of "Jericho beat so and so thus he should not be able to beat Cena." It's a matter of Jericho having not beaten ANYONE in about a year and thus having zero credibility in a main event. So to rebuild his heat, give him a few solid wins.

 

I'm telling you, they outta just put the title on Jericho here. No one thinks he has a shot, and it would be one of those shock title changes that would surprise people in a good way.

[The Tino Standard 0]

You know, while watching the Shelton/Masters thing tonight I wondered....why doesn't someone simply go to the corner and do the old Bret flip back onto Masters?  It'd be a good way to job him out without having someone break the Masterlock.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's exactly what I was thinking when Benjamin got caught. But instead of using that slick counter, he loses and looks like a jobber in the process, leaving all of us in the building wondering who he pissed off this weekend.

 

Thank god they gave us a dark match after the show went off the air because the TV main event was awful. Jericho NEVER hits the lionsault anymore, and not only does he hit it tonight, but it GETS THE PIN? Come on.

 

Cena/Batista vs. Angle/JBL was a fun little match to cap the night with, and definitely had more of a main event feel. Finish came when both faces hit their finishers and got simultaneous pins.

 

Shawn Michaels' promo seemed pretty interesting from what I could hear of it. Only problem was I had this idiot sitting in the loge behind me screaming "YOU CAN'T BEAT BRET HART!" and he did it for virtually the entire promo. It was amusing once, but got really, really aggravating fast.

 

We could see behind the TitanTron, but didn't see much, as there was a tunnel leading from the backstage to the ramp. One funny part came when they stretchered Lita out, then you saw them put the stretcher (empty) off to the side of the entrance area behind the stage (there was a platform outside the curtain), only to see her getting wheeled into the ambulance afterwards.

 

Cena was over like rover with the crowd and got the best pops of the night. Angle and Jericho probably drew the best heat.

 

Entertaining show considering what my tickets cost (they were free), but definitely not an all-time Top 5.

[Guest Super Pissed Smark]

That's crazy talk. Triple-H would never allow it. Jericho isn't even allowed a DVD, he'll never get another title run.

 

[cabbageboy 0]

I'm sure Jericho could get another title run if he agreed to be HHH's job bitch again once he's back.

[Angles Broken Fricken Neck 0]

from PWTorch

 

The moving of the announcers table on RAW last night was a permanent decision. Some may have thought it was done to create space for the "Battle of the Bands" segment, but it is an official move back. The announcers will main a three-person squad, with them returning to the ring side area every week.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

excellent

[Angle-plex 0]

Thoughts:

 

-Eugene/Kurt was pretty stupid. I especially loved how Eugene no-sold the Angle slam by easily reversing the Ankle Lock and dancing around seconds after Angle hit it.

 

-Shelton proved that he can't deliver a promo with more than one line tonight, just as I figured he would. The guy was stumbling all over the words. The guy needs to work on his delivery if he wants to be in a major feud.

 

-Edge vs Kane. Hardy attacks Edge. Yawn. I've seen this the past three weeks.

 

-HBK promo was really good.

 

-The Midget/Vis thing was weird and bad, but at least they tried something new.

[SuperJerk 0]

Having Jericho go over the Big Show is a good place to start.  Its certainly better than jobbing Show out to Masters.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And having Jericho beat Big Show is gonna exactly show that Jericho can do better against Cena how?

 

Sorry, but I don't get the whole, so and so can beat this guy...so that means he'll probaly be able to beat this guy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Isn't that how it works in legitimate sports?

 

The Patriots beat the Eagles, who beat the Falcons, so everyone assumes the Patriots could beat the Falcons.

 

 

cabbageboy also made a good point about this.

[Exslade ZX 0]

Having Jericho go over the Big Show is a good place to start.  Its certainly better than jobbing Show out to Masters.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And having Jericho beat Big Show is gonna exactly show that Jericho can do better against Cena how?

 

Sorry, but I don't get the whole, so and so can beat this guy...so that means he'll probaly be able to beat this guy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Isn't that how it works in legitimate sports?

 

The Patriots beat the Eagles, who beat the Falcons, so everyone assumes the Patriots could beat the Falcons.

 

 

cabbageboy also made a good point about this.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In order for that comparison to work, it'd have to be someone who beat Cena. Since when has Big Show beaten Cena? (Did he even beat him when they were on SD...? I cant recall)

 

So while yes, what you said is true about the Patriots/Eagles/Falcons, whatever, it's not true that let's say...because Big Show can beat Snitsky, that means he can beat Masters, if you get what I'm saying.

[Danville_Wrestling 0]

My Two Cents:

 

-Carlito going over Cena with Jericho's help didn't bother me much. It showed that Jericho's finisher could be devastating enough to get the title off of Cena and most importantly set up a main event for next week. I was afraid they'd do a stupid "you win and you get a title shot next week" and have the guy lose. They did that I believe many years ago between Eddie Guerrero and the Rock.

 

-Shelton Benjamin JOBS to Chris Masters?!?!?! WTF!?!?! This almost made me want to turn off the show. I thought when Benjamin was in the Masterlock he could grab the ropes, which (as someone stated before) doesn't actually see Benjamin "break" the hold, but shows that he's smart around the ring. PLUS, when you have the Big Show come in and dispatch the heels easily it makes Benjamin look UBER weak.

 

-Matt Hardy's run-ins are getting old. They need to have him actually DO SOMETHING CREATIVE with his next attack. Like c'mon, if he can only get a few punches in on Edge the last three times wouldn't any of us want to try a different mode of attack? It's just common sense.

 

-I'm really getting tired of seeing Edge's finish being relegated to hitting people with his Money in the Bank briefcase. I guess Carlito has the finish in the ropes that everyone loves to see, so now the next heel has to use a foreign object. This has happened so many times now I don't even remember what Edge's finisher actually is!

 

-I'm praying for no more Edge-Kane. I guess I can be a little realistic in that they didn't announce a match for next week. *shudders*

 

-I'm disappointed they've made HBK-Hogan the main event @ SummerSlam. I guess that's what they've fallen back on since Batista-Hassan got canned. However, if they want to build new stars they need to take risks w/Cena & Batista and not push the same old superstars. Someone above mentioned the same mistakes with WCW circa 2000 or something. I'm starting to see the same disturbing trends.

 

-Shawn Michaels promo was some good stuff, although I think it confused a lot of the crowd. Good to see the ol' Shawn Michaels back. Does this mean a worked "screwjob" finish @ SummerSlam?

 

-I won't even comment on the Diva Search crap. That hot dog eating contest was terrible and I took a bathroom break during most of it.

 

-I'm glad the announce table is back to its proper position. I hated it near the ramp.

 

-What is going on with this Viscera push? I hated this guy when he was Mabel, I hated him when he was in the gothic gimmick, and I hate him now. Hell, my dad isn't even a wrestling fan and he saw Viscera on the TV tonight and said "why in the world does that guy have a job in this company, he doesn't do anything for me." Also, what a way to make your ONLY other tag team on RAW look weak at the hands of a fat guy again.

 

-I called the Eugene/Angle segment in the first page of this thread I believe, but I think it's at least going to give us a decent match @ SummerSlam. C'mon guys, did you REALLY want to see Angle-Big Show as was rumored previously?

 

BIG COMMENT: Tonight really opened my eyes on commentary and I'm not sure why. I think it's time to fire Jerry Lawler and replace him with the Coach. I see a big problem watching RAW is that there isn't a TRUE HEEL commentator to refute Jim Ross. Lawler used to be that guy, but when all the "puppies" and stuff got started his character started to mellow out and now he's a tweener which is terrible. Plus, Lawler's act is very stale by this point, even moreso than Ross. Therefore, I'd totally support firing Lawler, letting the Coach have his spot on commentary, and then we'd get a nice face-heel clash between the two commentators possibly adding to the passion of the match a little bit these days. Too often now it seems that commentary doesn't do ANYTHING for me in big matches and having a face/heel pair may reinvigorate that.

 

Overall, an entertaining first hour, but after that it was completely downhill. I'm really starting to fear for the long-term future of the WWE now, though.

[Guest Greg Valentine]

I guess it's just me but I've been totally digging the Jericho-Cena feud. For some reason it's giving me the vibe of the Dude Love-Stone Cold feud from 98, especially with Jericho and Bischoff's relationship reflecting Dude Love and McMahon's. Plus, back then, fans didn't buy Dude as a title contender because of his past booking, though Foley was booked a lot better than Jericho has. The point was it was a well written feud and the influence of McMahon stacking the odds against Austin was what gave Dude the advantage, not his previous win-loss record. The same goes for Jericho being believable as a contender because of his relationship with Bischoff and their stacking the odds against Cena, not because he's been booked strong in the past.

[Fökai 0]

You know, while watching the Shelton/Masters thing tonight I wondered....why doesn't someone simply go to the corner and do the old Bret flip back onto Masters? It'd be a good way to job him out without having someone break the Masterlock.

It's been hinted at, but it looks like a subtle attempt by the faces to show that they don't have the leverage to get up to the second rope. Benjamin tried to get up there, but he stopped short after he ran out of gas (someone else tried this a few weeks ago...Val?) That may just be me, though.

 

EDIT: Now that I think about it, I swear that someone tried that spot and that Masters simply rolled with the move.

[Exslade ZX 0]

You know, while watching the Shelton/Masters thing tonight I wondered....why doesn't someone simply go to the corner and do the old Bret flip back onto Masters? It'd be a good way to job him out without having someone break the Masterlock.

It's been hinted at, but it looks like a subtle attempt by the faces to show that they don't have the leverage to get up to the second rope. Benjamin tried to get up there, but he stopped short after he ran out of gas (someone else tried this a few weeks ago...Val?) That may just be me, though.

 

EDIT: Now that I think about it, I swear that someone tried that spot and that Masters simply rolled with the move.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They did, it was Val Venis. He walked on the turnbuckle and flipped over Masters, but Masters just held it on, and rolled with him.

[iggymcfly 0]

Well, for the most part, Raw was dreadfully boring tonight, and I watched it mildly drunk with fast-forward ability.

 

Cena's feud with Bischoff is corny and simplistic, Hardy did the same crap he's done for the last three weeks, and Shawn's promo, while mildly interesting was far from earth shattering.

 

However, there was one thing that I did really like. In the main event, Jericho hit the Lionsault and Cena stayed down for a slow, deliberate, three count. While it won't rebuild Jericho's credibility overnight, it was a huge step in the right direction, and it has me starting to get legitimately interested in the title feud again.

[Guest JMA]

Shawn's promo was easily the best part of the show. I never liked his annoying Bible-thumper character and much prefered the old HBK. It's kind of weird, but I liked HBK more when he wasn't very likeable.

 

I just hope he doesn't return to his sanitized character with this feud is said and done. He needs an edge to him.

[SuperJerk 0]

Having Jericho go over the Big Show is a good place to start.  Its certainly better than jobbing Show out to Masters.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And having Jericho beat Big Show is gonna exactly show that Jericho can do better against Cena how?

 

Sorry, but I don't get the whole, so and so can beat this guy...so that means he'll probaly be able to beat this guy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Isn't that how it works in legitimate sports?

 

The Patriots beat the Eagles, who beat the Falcons, so everyone assumes the Patriots could beat the Falcons.

 

 

cabbageboy also made a good point about this.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In order for that comparison to work, it'd have to be someone who beat Cena. Since when has Big Show beaten Cena? (Did he even beat him when they were on SD...? I cant recall)

 

So while yes, what you said is true about the Patriots/Eagles/Falcons, whatever, it's not true that let's say...because Big Show can beat Snitsky, that means he can beat Masters, if you get what I'm saying.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

So then Jericho needs to beat Orlando Jordan, who has beaten both Cena and Chris Benoit.

 

(Kurt Angle has also beaten Cena, although Cena beat Angle more recently.)

 

Seriously, though, cabbageboy makes a good point that it doesn't matter who Jericho beats, since no one can any longer remember anyone he's beaten. Every once in a while he'll remind us he beat Rock and Austin in the same night, but that was almost 4 years ago for fuck's sake. Who has he beaten since then? Christian?

[Team Angle Pusher 0]

They believe in Eugene, they know he's a great performer and he's pretty over. Now they make him look like a monster but the problem is: he will NEVER be able to be the WWE Champion. You'd have a retard as the Champ!

[Matt Young 0]

They can push him into the upper midcard, give him the IC belt, and then eventually turn him heel/non-retarded. If done properly, he could be a main event player, but it'll probably never happen.

 

You know, I never would have thought 5 years ago that I'd be discussing the possibility of Nick Dinsmore as WWF/E Champion.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

Eugene will one day be WWE Champion.

 

If the character stays over enough, it has "WM Miracle Story" written all over it.

 

Or at least transitional champ between <random over heel> and Triple H in 2006.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

No, Eugene is a comedy act. Does the guy even have his own finisher? No, he uses other people's.

 

I'll admit the guy does his act very well, but not only do I personally find it offensive I can't see it having a worthwhile title run even when I look past my opinions.

[dubq 0]

Dinsmore needs to be taken out of that gimmick and repackaged. BADLY. Seriously, how do you go from one of the most technical wrestlers in OVW to being THAT. Give me a break.

 

Also, I cannot wait until Cena loses the title, if only to get rid of that gawdy piece of crap that he carries around with him. That many faux-jewels do NOT belong on a championship title. It looks like an oversized woman's broach or something.

[Boon 0]

Also, I cannot wait until Cena loses the title, if only to get rid of that gawdy piece of crap that he carries around with him. That many faux-jewels do NOT belong on a championship title. It looks like an oversized woman's broach or something.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Seconded.

[RedJed 0]

God, can they just kill off the Diva Search already if the best idea they can come up with is a fucking hot dog eating contest? At least try and draw some sexual innuendo from it akin to the ice cream eating deal last year. Ugh.

 

Most of the show was actually pretty weak IMO. How they can fucking kill off Benjamin in such a way as that is beyond me. Some will argue he was in a handicap match anyway but Masters does NOT deserve a win over him, PERIOD. Are they going to still try to build to a rematch with Carlito at SummerSlam? Man, they're just ruining one of their biggest upcoming stars on the brand right now, and I'm NOT talking about Carlito!!

 

The Eugene thing was alright and will lead to Angle-Eugene at SummerSlam I assume. Might be a tremedous match if they work a technical style and not Eugene doing his typical retard motions. It's amazing how long the metal challenge has gone on for though, hasnt it been at least for a year?

 

I didnt think the HBK promo was that great, although it was somewhat interesting. So they apparently want to keep HBK face after all huh? This feud is getting good...

 

The Cena-Jericho stuff was ok, albeit predictable. I'm not following what the fuck Raw is doing with Kane and this shit with Edge/Lita. Can they just end it already or was that what is considered a blowoff? Lita off of TV right now is illogical when they are building to Hardy/Edge at SummerSlam I assume.

 

After weeks of being strong TV and ppvs, so far this week WWE TV is 0-2. I dont have much faith in Smackdown this week either.

[cabbageboy 0]

Well here's one thing I have to keep wondering about with Edge/Lita/Matt/Kane. Why does Edge bother? I mean seriously, isn't Lita just some pussy on the side for him? Why go through this shit with a pissed off ex husband and now a pissed off ex boyfriend constantly wanting to kick your ass? Just dump the bitch. Also, why does Kane give a shit? What is his goal here, to get Lita back somehow? To just keep tormenting both of them? Dude, it ain't worth it. Just find that Tori chick again if she's not too busy spending the holidays with X-Pac. Now, Matt. We don't know storywise yet why he gives a shit about any of this, this is where the whole work/shoot nature almost hurts things.

 

The entire basis of this storyline is that Lita is someone so incredible, such a beautiful and great woman that everyone wants to be with her and is mad when they aren't. The problem is that Lita isn't worth the trouble, Matt, Kane, or Edge could go to the mall or a coffee house and find chicks more worthwhile.

 

Edge outta just say fuck it and dump Lita, then he, Matt, and Kane can all go have a beer at a local saloon and play poker.

[Guest Zarock]

Good:

Carlito vs. Cena- I liked how Jericho didn't start kicking ass until the final minute, and Carlito yelling "Count fast, man!" was pretty neat. Carlito actually put up a decent fight to Cena, without using an illegal pin or something

 

For the first time like, ever, the face loses a handicap match- Yes, I know it was BENJAMIN jobbing to CHRIS MASTERS, which is AWFUL. Hopefully he'll beat both of them either consecutively in two matches or just out-right beat Snitsky in another handicap match before Chris can apply the Masterlock

 

Jericho's mic work during the battle of the bands- I thought it was really cool how he acknowledged that the crowd was just going to pick Cena on the basis of him being a face, and that nobody thinks he can beat Cena at SummerSlam.

 

Bad:

Heart Throbs vs. Viscera- Good god this was horrible. I'd say this was about as bad, if not worse, then Angle vs. Sharmell and Booker T.

 

Diva Search- Ugh.

 

Kane vs. Edge: THE NEW CHALLENGE- End feud, END!

 

Carlito's deep ass voice- Seriously, did he just go through puberty again? He sounds like Vis's dubbing his voice or something.

[RedJed 0]

Yeah I forgot about the Viscera tag match. What a waste of all of those guys, and then to bring in crappy midgets to try to develop a feud, how ridiculous. One of the worst segments on WWE TV this year easily so far.

[Cherry Blossom Viscount 0]

I guess I'm the only one who thought HBK actually did a heel promo, and a fantastic one at that. Instead of coming off as pious or righteous, he came off as arrogant, with just a hint of whiny egotism, definitely not traits of WWE style faces.

[ChrisMWaters 0]

Here's a thought (possibly doubtful, but still) that I had:

 

Could WWE intentionally be giving the Viacom networks bad shows now, so that when they get back on USA (and whatever other channels, if any, are part of the deal) they look that much better, and much fresher?

[Exslade ZX 0]

Here's a thought (possibly doubtful, but still) that I had:

 

Could WWE intentionally be giving the Viacom networks bad shows now, so that when they get back on USA (and whatever other channels, if any, are part of the deal) they look that much better, and much fresher?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Doubt it.

[RedJed 0]

Here's a thought (possibly doubtful, but still) that I had:

 

Could WWE intentionally be giving the Viacom networks bad shows now, so that when they get back on USA (and whatever other channels, if any, are part of the deal) they look that much better, and much fresher?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ummm no - in fact IMO both brands main shows have overall been stronger than most years this whole year in general. They just happen to have a shit show once in awhile, it doesnt surprise me.

 

But they would not intentionally water down shows to make themselves look more attractive to another station. In fact it's probably the other way around, they are attempting to be strong leading into the switch so they can convert all of the fanbase over easily.