The Official NHL Offseason Thread

[Hogan Made Wrestling 0]

???

 

Bonk is a third line centre and he plays for Montreal. Varada is a third line/fourth line player.

 

Heatly will most likely play with Alfreddson or Spezza

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You completely missed the point. There's a general idea that Hossa had more talent to work with than Heatley did, which isn't really true outside of the defense. Their regular linemates over the past few years bear that out. I don't see Hossa's production dropping at all with guys like Kovalchuk, Savard, Kozlov, and Holik, especially since he will be counted on for a bigger role and will probably get more minutes.

[Annabelle 0]

Hossa DID have more talent to work with. to say otherwise is downright laughable. heatley had kovalchuk, thats it. no one else came close to the offensive prowess that the sens had. but hossa always disappeared when the going got tough. he was the epitome of the senators playoff woes. hossa will work with kovalchuk just fine, but heatley is the better player. and before his injury, i would have put heatley & kovalchuk at the same level. again, heatley is probably a better all around player. kovalchuk is a finisher. he's fast. he's strong. but he has no heart. hossa reminds me of an alexei yashin. so does kovalchuk, except kovalchuk is much better,

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

Don't forget Marc Savard has average a PPG over the last three seasons.

 

But playing on a powerplay with Kovalchuk and Heatley(and Iginla and Conroy, briefly) will do that.

 

Hossa is a great player, but he really doesn't have much to help him in Hotlanta.

[Hogan Made Wrestling 0]

Hossa DID have more talent to work with.  to say otherwise is downright laughable.  heatley had kovalchuk, thats it.  no one else came close to the offensive prowess that the sens had.  but hossa always disappeared when the going got tough.  he was the epitome of the senators playoff woes.  hossa will work with kovalchuk just fine, but heatley is the better player.  and before his injury, i would have put heatley & kovalchuk at the same level.  again, heatley is probably a better all around player.  kovalchuk is a finisher.  he's fast.  he's strong.  but he has no heart.  hossa reminds me of an alexei yashin.  so does kovalchuk, except kovalchuk is much better,

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Translation: Heatley is Canadian, Kovalchuk and Hossa are not. Therefore Heatley is a gritty warrior with heart while Hossa and Kovalchuk are like Alexei Yashin. Funny that of the three, Heatley is the only one who has pulled a Yashin and demanded a trade.

 

What exactly have either Kovalchuk or Heatley done to show that one doesn't have heart but the other does? Absolutely nothing, unless you care about B-level tournaments on big ice like the World Championships. Heatley has also shown little defensive ability at all.

 

And most of Ottawa's talent was concentrated on the right side. Hossa had more to work with on the powerplay, that's for sure. But his linemates left a lot to be desired.

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

Therefore Heatley is a gritty warrior with heart while Hossa and Kovalchuk are like Alexei Yashin. Funny that of the three, Heatley is the only one who has pulled a Yashin and demanded a trade.

 

Pulled a Yashin? Did you see his statement to Atlanta fans? Go to tsn.ca, since obviously you haven't.

That's not pulling a Yashin whatsoever.

 

And I'm not gonna defend Kovalchuk, as he's an arrogant, smug prick. Hossa is at least, capable of playing with semi-heart.

 

It doesn't matter what country you come from, Heatley is a gritty warrior. He's been through tremendous adversity in the last 18 months and is as purely talented as just about anyone in hockey today.

 

You'll also recall he was born in Koln, Germany. It's impressive that you have been able to be a dumbass and a smartass simultaneously.

[Hogan Made Wrestling 0]

Pulled a Yashin? Did you see his statement to Atlanta fans? Go to tsn.ca, since obviously you haven't.

That's not pulling a Yashin whatsoever.

 

It's still closer than anything either of the other two have done.

 

And I'm not gonna defend Kovalchuk, as he's an arrogant, smug prick.

 

Let me guess, you are just another bitter team Canada homer who is still sour over Kovalchuk having the audacity to pump his fist scoring a winning goal against the Canadian junior team 5 years ago.

 

Hossa is at least, capable of playing with semi-heart.

 

I'm not even sure what this means. Show me where Heatley has "proven that he plays with heart" and Kovalchuk has "proven that he hasn't".

 

It doesn't matter what country you come from, Heatley is a gritty warrior.

 

Except that he's not, at all. He's a one-way offensive forward. His most memorable performances have come in an all-star game and in tournaments played on European-sized ice. There's plenty to be said there.

 

He's been through tremendous adversity in the last 18 months and is as purely talented as just about anyone in hockey today.

 

I'd say there's a lot of players that are more purely talented than he is.

 

You'll also recall he was born in Koln, Germany. It's impressive that you have been able to be a dumbass and a smartass simultaneously.

 

Now who's being a smartass? I know that he was born in Germany, that doesn't make him a German. Is Alexander Steen a Canadian because he happened to be born in Winnipeg?

[the max 0]

I would say Heatley's linemates (Marc Savard and Slava Kozlov) are quite superior to the guys Hossa was playing with (Vaclav Varada and Radek Bonk).

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I'll give you Savard. Kozlov can run hot-and-cold to an extreme and can't be trusted to carry a bulk of the offensive load.

 

Varada is a fourth line grinder. He uses his size to wear down other teams and I can't really remember when he was on the same line as Hossa, who usually saw time with any combination of Bonk (who is one of the most overrated and maddeningly inconsistant players in recent memory), Havlat, Alfredsson, Spezza, Fisher or White, all depending on Martin's mood. Hossa has taken a huge step-down in terms of offensive ability to go from a team like Ottawa, very deep in terms of young, skilled talent to Atlanta where the talent is either too young to make a difference yet, or getting on in age.

[the max 0]

His [Heatley] most memorable performances have come in an all-star game and in tournaments played on European-sized ice. There's plenty to be said there.

 

Except for that little 41 goal season that he put up as a 22 year old. And the fact that he was almost a point a game player with little to no offensive help in 03-04.

[Hogan Made Wrestling 0]

His [Heatley] most memorable performances have come in an all-star game and in tournaments played on European-sized ice. There's plenty to be said there.

 

Except for that little 41 goal season that he put up as a 22 year old. And the fact that he was almost a point a game player with little to no offensive help in 03-04.

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That was a very good season but it's not like he totally dominated the league or something. Consider say Kovalchuk's season last year, where he finished 1st in goals and 2nd in points at an even younger age than that, and was THN's pick as the MVP for the first half of the season. That was a more impressive performance to me. Also, while Heatley put up some points last season upon returning, he was absolutely horrid defensively and the Thrashers went in to a long losing skid right around the time he came back.

[the max 0]

Because the players were fucking exhausted. They didn't make any big trades outside of getting Heatley back from injury and the same players had been playing every game for them because they had absolutely no depth. Ilya's season was VERY impressive, considering that he had practically nothing to work with and was basically counted on to be a finisher AND a set-up man (which he's not as good at).

 

And while Heatley didn't dominate the league in his 87 point season, he still put up better than a point a game, which for a 22 year old with no offense around him is pretty impressive considering the defense that he played against being completely different than years past.

[Annabelle 0]

i'd rather slam a car door in my cock than continue discussing hockey with hogan made wrestling. he has to be blind & deaf. that would be the only logical reason for his illogical hockey statements. there's no way a person who watches hockey or reads stats can be this stupid. furthermore, the lazy argument that EVERYONE says heatley is better than hossa is because we are this ethnocentric bunch who denounce euro players...which is funny considering everyone is pretty much in agreement that peter forsberg is the best player in the league while khabibulin is the best goalie. funny. ha-ha-ha. europeans have no heart. go canada.

[the max 0]

The argument can be made that Heatley is more complete than Hossa because he has better size and knows how to throw his weight around, rather than Hossa who can disappear when it starts getting rough.

 

It all depends on the franchise, however. I'm surprised that Atlanta got rid of him, even though I think I made note in the 2003-04 season thread that he'll probably be gone from Atlanta sooner rather than later. I'm surprised because it seems like he fits what they're doing now: keeping young talent together while they mature. He seems to fit easier into that, rather than going to a team seemingly ready for the next step without knowing if he himself is ready for the big step into superstardom.

 

Hossa leaving really floored me, considering that he's done fairly well for them. But, Ottawa is deep in wing talent and Havlat can easily step in for Hossa and certainly benefit from the added ice-time. For Ottawa to trade one of its best for a player yet to prove himself really surprises me though.

[Hogan Made Wrestling 0]

i'd rather slam a car door in my cock than continue discussing hockey with hogan made wrestling.  he has to be blind & deaf.  that would be the only logical reason for his illogical hockey statements.  there's no way a person who watches hockey or reads stats can be this stupid. furthermore, the lazy argument that EVERYONE says heatley is better than hossa is because we are this ethnocentric bunch who denounce euro players...which is funny considering everyone is pretty much in agreement that peter forsberg is the best player in the league while khabibulin is the best goalie.  funny.  ha-ha-ha.  europeans have no heart.  go canada.

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You haven't made one argument in support of your points. You are just repeating stereotypical talking points and making assinine comparisons. You make claims like "Hossa and Kovalchuk are just like Yashin" while providing absolutely no explanation why. The only explanation for claims like "Kovalchuk has no heart" is that you are biased against him because of his nationality. If you think Heatley is a good all-around player you simply must not watch him play very often. He's bad defensively and lazy at backchecking. He also rarely goes into the corners and doesn't take punishment in front of the net. He's a very good offensive player from the perimeter, and he's got good size but doesn't use it much. A Glen Murray or John Leclair type player.

 

And while you keep going on about Hossa disppearing in the playoffs as a reason he sucks and should get dumped, I guess you wouldn't want Joe Thornton either then? Because he's been absolutely horrid in the playoffs, a total disappearing act.

[the max 0]

Joe's disappearing acts are legendary, but Hossa has actually produced in the postseason. He's gone for 34 points in 51 games, which isn't too terrible and while he's a -3 in the postseason, that comes with playing important minutes.

[Hogan Made Wrestling 0]

Joe's disappearing acts are legendary, but Hossa has actually produced in the postseason. He's gone for 34 points in 51 games, which isn't too terrible and while he's a -3 in the postseason, that comes with playing important minutes.

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Exactly, his play hasn't even been that bad. Also, I imagine that Thornton will eventually improve, particularly if his maturity improves. Anyone who wouldn't want Thornton on their team based on what he's done up to now is just being short-sighted.

 

My point is that Thornton would probably get a pass on his playoff failures, because he fits the stereotype of a "playoff warrior". Which makes it doubly perplexing as to why people are annointing Heatley with such a title when he's exactly the kind of player Sens fans have been complaining they have too many of.

[the max 0]

nl5 and I have argued about Joe in the past. I want him out. I hate his attitude, I hate that he almost refuses to live up to his potential he only teases us with flashes of brilliance.

[Hogan Made Wrestling 0]

nl5 and I have argued about Joe in the past. I want him out. I hate his attitude, I hate that he almost refuses to live up to his potential he only teases us with flashes of brilliance.

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His attitude is the biggest turnoff for me as well. It's not at say Bertuzzi levels of bad, but he's got to grow up, stop taking bad penalties, stop whining in the media, stop fighting cops outside of bars, and play hard consistently.

[the max 0]

If the Bruins could have swung the trade with Atlanta for Heatley in exchange for Joe, I would have LOVED to have seen them make it.

[Dogbert 0]

i'd rather slam a car door in my cock than continue discussing hockey with hogan made wrestling.  he has to be blind & deaf.  that would be the only logical reason for his illogical hockey statements.  there's no way a person who watches hockey or reads stats can be this stupid. furthermore, the lazy argument that EVERYONE says heatley is better than hossa is because we are this ethnocentric bunch who denounce euro players...which is funny considering everyone is pretty much in agreement that peter forsberg is the best player in the league while khabibulin is the best goalie.  funny.  ha-ha-ha.  europeans have no heart.  go canada.

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Since when is everyone in agreement about those two topics?

 

I'd put Iginla and Brodeur in those two slots.

[Guest Olympic Slam]

All I have to say about the Hossa/Heatley trade is WOW! You never see trades like this. Its like something out of an EA sports game.

[Guest Rrrsh]

Knab might not even be top 5 and Forsberg was 3 years ago. With his injury state, HE is not Top 5.

[Hogan Made Wrestling 0]

Knab might not even be top 5 and Forsberg was 3 years ago. With his injury state, HE is not Top 5.

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5 goalies better than Khabibulin? I sure as hell don't see that.

[Dogbert 0]

1) Brodeur

2) Khabibulin

3) Luongo

4) Kiprusoff

5) Vokoun

 

... is how I'd put them.

[Hogan Made Wrestling 0]

1) Brodeur

2) Khabibulin

3) Luongo

4) Kiprusoff

5) Vokoun

 

... is how I'd put them.

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Wow, did you read my mind or something? I might have Turco and/or Theodore in there but those are certainly 5 of the top 10 or so, and I like the order as well.

[stahl 0]

5 goalies better than Khabibulin? I sure as hell don't see that.

 

Brodeur

Belfour

Luongo

Turco

 

Well that's four. I'm a Blackhawk fan and Bulin is a good to great goalie, but I wouldn't rate him as the best goalie in the league.

[CanadianChris 0]

Pulled a Yashin? Did you see his statement to Atlanta fans? Go to tsn.ca, since obviously you haven't.

That's not pulling a Yashin whatsoever.

 

It's still closer than anything either of the other two have done.

You must have missed Hossa demanding Iginla money this summer, despite never having performed on Iginla's level in any way.

 

Hossa was NOT worth $6-$7 million in the current economic climate, and the Senators were quite right to get rid of him for someone of comparable talent with a much smaller contract. Especially if it means resigning Redden and Chara in the future.

[CanadianChris 0]

Looks like I'll be moving the date of the roto draft back a week, as I'll likely be out of town that weekend. I'll keep everyone posted.

[nl5xsk1 0]

If the Bruins could have swung the trade with Atlanta for Heatley in exchange for Joe, I would have LOVED to have seen them make it.

The only reason I agree, Max, is because of the $$$. Joe's contract is going to hurt the B's unless the cap is raised in the next year or so. Now, if you'd said Samsonov, Gill & Axelsson for Heatley, I'd have taken it in a second (and, obviously, I know that Atlanta would never make that trade in a million years ... it's just me trying to get rid of my two least favorite Bruins and also get something in exchange for Sergei, who's good as gone at the end of the year.)

 

che, I have to jump on the bandwagon and agree that you're crazy for calling it generally agreed that Forsberg & Khabibulin are the best ... Khabibulin is great but there's a handful of goalies that I'd choose to build around before him, and Forsberg's better known for his injuries than his greatness at this point.

 

Hogan Made Wrestling, your repeated claims that nationality is blinding people is kind of off in a thread that has more than a few Americans. Neither are from my country and I'd still take Heatley over Hossa 7 days a week.

[the max 0]

which is funny considering everyone is pretty much in agreement that peter forsberg is the best player in the league while khabibulin is the best goalie.

 

Somehow I missed this gem.

 

Forwards that I would currently take before Peter Forsberg:

 

1- Iginla

2- Lecavalier

3- Sakic

4- Crosby

5- Hejduk

6- St. Louis

7- Naslund

8- Heatley

9- Bergeron

10- Tanguay

 

If it were a few years ago, I'd look at Forsberg as the best in the game, however due to his injuries, he's likely going to take a step back this year and next. I wouldn't be surprised to see him leave the NHL after this contract is up with the Flyers.

 

Goalies I'd take over Khabibulin:

 

1- Brodeur

2- Luongo

3- Raycroft

4- Turco

5- Denis

6- Vokoun

 

Khabibulin might have won a Cup and had good numbers in the playoffs, but he's going to an unproven team in Chicago where he has to prove that he can be successful without one of the best offenses putting up good numbers for him. We'll see about Khabibulin. Regardless, he's far from the best goaltender in the NHL.

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

If the Bruins could have swung the trade with Atlanta for Heatley in exchange for Joe, I would have LOVED to have seen them make it.

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All I have to say about the Hossa/Heatley trade is WOW! You never see trades like this. Its like something out of an EA sports game.

 

That was my first thought, especially since "Thornton traded for Heatley" was a loading screen in EA's 2004. Especially ironic, is that the two were traded as cover boys for the title.

 

1) Brodeur

2) Luongo

3) Khabibulin

4) Theodore

5) Turco