Campaign 2008

[naiwf 0]

 

Well, they didn't lie...

 

On what subject did he win aside from meaningless stories?

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

His bracelet is nicer.

[SuperJerk 0]

And with that, the right-wing rebellion begins.

 

Despite many GOP headliners, such as Ben Stein, dismissing the ticket after the convention?

Well, yeah, there's that.

 

And George Will.

 

Hey, its not the beginning of the end, its the end of the beginning. Or something.

[At Home 0]

So are we all in agreement that McCain won?

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

The bracelet battle?

[SuperJerk 0]

I think it was a draw.

 

McCain got points by dominating the agenda and asserting himself.

 

Obama got points by sounding knowledgable and not looking like a dick.

[RonL21 0]

LMAO @ the Fox News Poll

Who do you think won the debate?

McCain-82%

Obama-16%

Undecided-2%

 

And that's with 50,000 votes. I mean come on.

[Jingus 0]

Well that was about the most polite knifefight I've ever seen.

 

Lehrer tried to shape things his way early on, and kept trying to get the candidates to give specific answers to some questions ("what would you cut in the budget" was the big one). But they kinda kept ignoring him and going back to their standard talking points, so Jim just gave up and let them ramble.

 

Pro-McCain:

-He seemed more verbally confident. Obama stuttered quite a bit, especially when he would start on a new subject; McCain just calmly started with some opening pleasantries spoken at 3/4 speed while he thought ahead to frame what he was saying next. Obama sometimes sounded like an actor stalling while he was trying to remember his lines.

-Even mentioning the idea of a spending freeze was pretty ballsy. Don't know if I'd necessarily agree with him on that one, kinda ominous how he apparently wanted to keep raising the budget for the military, but it still showed he's willing to take drastic maneuvers to stop the sprawl of big government.

-Barack interrupted John way more than vice-versa, making him look kinda like an asshole at times.

-McCain beat the shit out of Barry on the experience issue, pointing out how he's actually been there and seen that in all these places that Obama just talks theoretically about. Barrison's non-explanation of why he'd never been to Iraq was especially pretty fucking weak.

 

Probama:

-Way more interactive with his opponent. McCain mostly dully stared straight ahead the whole time, talked to the TV audience, and sometimes acted like he was alone on that stage. Obama frequently turned his body and talked to McCain, which was rarely reciprocated. Also, Obama would constantly point out parts where he agreed with McCain, and also instantly step up to counterattack any time John said something which Barold thought was fallacious.

-The tax cut thing. Aside from the one example of how companies would jump to Ireland (?) to do business cuz of our high taxes, McCain seemed like he was actively running away from trying to explain his tax plan. Kept trying to hammer the government spending instead, even when the debate had clearly gone past that point, and kept dodging the question even when Obama kept directly pointing it out.

-Obama would sometimes change his gameplan on the fly, whenever he became Interruptor McStepontoes he would come up with counterattacks that McCain sometimes wouldn't really address, John would just go on repeating what he'd already said.

-McCain talked too much imho about how Obama wants us to lose the war in Iraq. He kinda obsessed over it, and kept returning to it even when they'd gone on to other subjects. Gave the impression of having a Bush-esque one track mind on the subject.

 

 

Overall? Draw. Both men scored points, and some of the stuff claimed on each side will have to be factchecked afterwards (what exactly Kissinger said about meeting the Iranian president, for example). But I don't think either one of them came out of it with a significant advantage over the other.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

Well that was about the most polite knifefight I've ever seen.

 

Lehrer tried to shape things his way early on, and kept trying to get the candidates to give specific answers to some questions ("what would you cut in the budget" was the big one). But they kinda kept ignoring him and going back to their standard talking points, so Jim just gave up and let them ramble.

 

Pro-McCain:

-He seemed more verbally confident. Obama stuttered quite a bit, especially when he would start on a new subject; McCain just calmly started with some opening pleasantries spoken at 3/4 speed while he thought ahead to frame what he was saying next. Obama sometimes sounded like an actor stalling while he was trying to remember his lines.

-Even mentioning the idea of a spending freeze was pretty ballsy. Don't know if I'd necessarily agree with him on that one, kinda ominous how he apparently wanted to keep raising the budget for the military, but it still showed he's willing to take drastic maneuvers to stop the sprawl of big government.

-Barack interrupted John way more than vice-versa, making him look kinda like an asshole at times.

-McCain beat the shit out of Barry on the experience issue, pointing out how he's actually been there and seen that in all these places that Obama just talks theoretically about. Barrison's non-explanation of why he'd never been to Iraq was especially pretty fucking weak.

 

Probama:

-Way more interactive with his opponent. McCain mostly dully stared straight ahead the whole time, talked to the TV audience, and sometimes acted like he was alone on that stage. Obama frequently turned his body and talked to McCain, which was rarely reciprocated. Also, Obama would constantly point out parts where he agreed with McCain, and also instantly step up to counterattack any time John said something which Barold thought was fallacious.

-The tax cut thing. Aside from the one example of how companies would jump to Ireland (?) to do business cuz of our high taxes, McCain seemed like he was actively running away from trying to explain his tax plan. Kept trying to hammer the government spending instead, even when the debate had clearly gone past that point, and kept dodging the question even when Obama kept directly pointing it out.

-Obama would sometimes change his gameplan on the fly, whenever he became Interruptor McStepontoes he would come up with counterattacks that McCain sometimes wouldn't really address, John would just go on repeating what he'd already said.

-McCain talked too much imho about how Obama wants us to lose the war in Iraq. He kinda obsessed over it, and kept returning to it even when they'd gone on to other subjects. Gave the impression of having a Bush-esque one track mind on the subject.

 

 

Overall? Draw. Both men scored points, and some of the stuff claimed on each side will have to be factchecked afterwards (what exactly Kissinger said about meeting the Iranian president, for example). But I don't think either one of them came out of it with a significant advantage over the other.

 

 

That's not good for McCain. Foreign Policy is supposedly his strength...and now they're done talking about it. Obama came in ahead...and if no one made a splash...McCain just kinda ran out of positive things ahead. I mean...we're less than a week from the VP debate. I can't wait for that.

[Gary Floyd 0]

LMAO @ the Fox News Poll

Who do you think won the debate?

McCain-82%

Obama-16%

Undecided-2%

 

And that's with 50,000 votes. I mean come on.

I'm getting the impression that you din't like Fox News.

 

I'd say Obama won tonight's debate. McCain wasted too many opportunities to answer questions, and let his temper get to him. Obama came off much more professional, and didn't spend as much time trying to tug heartstrings as McCain did.

[Jingus 0]

I must admit, I'm hoping for a bit of role playing at the debate, with Sarah Palin as a cheerleader who can't hold her jaegerbombs and Joe Biden as a senior fraternity member with a pocketful of roofies and a footlong erection.

[naiwf 0]

McCain lost that in my mind, and apparently the minds of most of the people in the CNN survey(s).

[Gary Floyd 0]

I must admit, I'm hoping for a bit of role playing at the debate, with Sarah Palin as a cheerleader who can't hold her jaegerbombs and Joe Biden as a senior fraternity member with a pocketful of roofies and a footlong erection.

Say what you will about Jingus, but that's a fine post.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

I must admit, I'm hoping for a bit of role playing at the debate, with Sarah Palin as a cheerleader who can't hold her jaegerbombs and Joe Biden as a senior fraternity member with a pocketful of roofies and a footlong erection.

 

Dude...Biden was BORN to play that part.

 

BOOK IT!!!

[RonL21 0]

LMAO @ the Fox News Poll

Who do you think won the debate?

McCain-82%

Obama-16%

Undecided-2%

 

And that's with 50,000 votes. I mean come on.

I'm getting the impression that you din't like Fox News.

 

I'd say Obama won tonight's debate. McCain wasted too many opportunities to answer questions, and let his temper get to him. Obama came off much more professional, and didn't spend as much time trying to tug heartstrings as McCain did.

I disagree with them alot. But that poll is ridiculous. Especially when everyone else pretty much has it closer to 50/50

[SuperJerk 0]

Something that really annoys me...John McCain's obsession with Iran's President Ahmadinejad has to stop.

 

Despite the title of "president," Ahmadinejad is not the leader of Iran. The leader of Iran is the current Ayatollah, not the president. The president is in charge of appointing and oversee the executive branch bureacracy, and has no actual foreign policy or military responsibilities. The Ayatollah has the final say in all decisions, and is charge of foreign and nuclear policy, and out-ranks everyone else in the country.

 

*sigh*

 

[ZGangsta 0]

Something that really annoys me...John McCain's obsession with Iran's President Ahmadinejad has to stop.

 

Despite the title of "president," Ahmadinejad is not the leader of Iran. The leader of Iran is the current Ayatollah, not the president. The president is in charge of appointing and oversee the executive branch bureacracy, and has no actual foreign policy or military responsibilities. The Ayatollah has the final say in all decisions, and is charge of foreign and nuclear policy, and out-ranks everyone else in the country.

 

*sigh*

This is true. Ahmadinejad does not have power over Iran's military. Apparently in Iran he's mocked by his political opponents for acting like he is the head of the military. It's seen as empty tough guy political posturing.

[SuperJerk 0]

This has been submitted before, but damn...

 

[ZGangsta 0]

I love that "If you ask any average American who the leader of Iran is" part. Retard, I don't want 'any average American' in charge of foreign policy, I'd want someone who actually knows that it's the Ayatollah who is calling the shots.

[PILLS! PILLS! PILLS! 0]

I love that "If you ask any average American who the leader of Iran is" part. Retard, I don't want 'any average American' in charge of foreign policy, I'd want someone who actually knows that it's the Ayatollah who is calling the shots.

 

I'm glad that I wasn't the only one who was horrified by this. We really shouldn't be asking the average American shit.

[milliondollarchamp 0]

MSNBC survey

 

John McCain

35%

Barack Obama

51%

Tie

6.3%

Not sure

7.8%

 

And cnn....

 

Who fared better in the first presidential debate?

Sen. John McCain 27% 20571

Sen. Barack Obama 67% 50554

Neither 6% 4202

 

At&T/Yahoo homepage

 

Q. John McCain and Barack Obama have tackled the issues face to face for the first time.

 

Who do you think won?

John McCain 49%

Barack Obama 48%

[Ketamine Disaster 0]

From The Drudge Report....

 

 

Won won the first presidential debate?

 

McCain 65%

Obama 32%

Neither 2%

 

196,324 votes.

[Mecca 0]

Here's some ownage for you.....

 

[SuperJerk 0]

Jack Cafferty awards her no points, and may God have mercy on her soul.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

Peter David is the man.

 

What Obama needs to do to win a debate

 

Because he didn't win this one. Not overwhelmingly. He got in a few solid hits, and perhaps on debate points he edged out a victory. But he didn't do what he needed to do, which is overwhelmingly convince undecideds. Now granted I'm speculating because I haven't polled any undecideds, but I don't think his performance was strong enough to sway anyone.

 

I think he needs to follow the philosophy of a poker player, as nicely espoused by James Bond: You don't play the cards. You play the man. Obama spent the debate playing the cards that McCain dealt him, and he needs to be running the table.

 

McCain's Achilles heel is his legendary temper. Obama needs to get McCain to transform, on screen, into that cranky guy down the block who tells the neighborhood brats to get the football off his lawn.

 

How? By calling him a liar. By questioning his honor. By saying something like, "Senator, with respect, I think we both know that if your choice for vice president were the Democratic candidate for President, you would be standing here shredding her on her lack of experience, her lack of preparedness, and that the presidency shouldn't require on-the-job training. How dare you stand there and flaunt such thunderous hypocrisy, that you would hold me to a standard that you don't hold your own possible successor to. You have forever tossed away the right to play the experience card as you have repeatedly done with me tonight, and I think you owe an apology to the American people for such dishonorable behavior." And he needs to say that politely but firmly, and then stand back and watch McCain fly off the rails. Because if you push his buttons, he will.

 

He needs to be able to convey that McCain doesn't belong in the Oval Office; he belongs in a Scooby-Doo cartoon saying, "And I would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for you rotten kids!"

 

UPDATE: I was torqued to read "Newsday" attributing the Wall Street/Main Street thing to John McCain even though Obama said it twice before him. Hey, here's another thought: If McCain makes snide comments about a liberal voting record again, Obama can say, "You know who else had a liberal voting record? The Founding Fathers in voting for change. Now I know, Senator McCain, I know...you knew the Founding Fathers. You worked with the Founding Fathers. The Founding Fathers were friends of yours, and I'm no founding father. But I'll do my best to live up to the example they set and the Constitutional freedoms they lay down...freedoms that your good friend, George Bush, has stampeded over."

 

PAD

[At Home 0]

You and I both know that that kind of rhetoric doesn't take well in the political arena.

[snuffbox 0]

You do realize that those kinds of soundbite have completely dominated the public imagination of debates since 1980, right? Reagan did it, successfully, twice, and it made Bentsen a political icon (with a quote that the above guy cribbed)

[godthedog 0]

PAD is a moron. i don't want to vote for somebody who goes into a debate looking to make the other guy explode with rage, i want somebody who talks like he cares about the issues brought up, who answers the questions, who clarifies things, and who makes a special effort not to construct dumbass ad-hoc attacks. this "why isn't obama more mean it's making him look soft" crap has been spewed for months.

 

the "5 minutes back-and-forth" debate format was not a good idea. lehrer lost complete control about 20 minutes in (after admirably pressuring both candidates to actually answer his question about how exactly the bailout will change their administration's goals), and never got it back.

 

it was basically an excuse for each of them to evade hard answers left & right, and say whatever they want to by talking over the other person. obama did better with it, by picking up on specific language mccain was using and trying to follow a train of thought, but mccain was all over the place--he just tried to control the tone by saying random negative or positive things, thinking of different ways to get catch-phrases in. it's just a kiss of death to let them interrupt each other, because then it just becomes a battle of wills.

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

You and I both know that that kind of rhetoric doesn't take well in the political arena.

Perhaps on talk radio they might bitch about it. But come ON! This is Politics American Style. There is no shot too cheap. No road too low. It's bottom shelf and it works.