HHH and Ric Flair's return date to TV announced

[Hektik 0]

You are kidding yourself if you try to include Eddy Guerrero and Chris Benoit into the list of attempted draws. 

 

Forget his lack of work rate and ability to manifest a string of **** matches. Where did that get Benoit? Guerrero? no where.

I have to point out that Guerrero was the only type of live draw that the WWE had in 03/04. Even now his heel turn has given his character new life. Just this past week, the Guerrero/Mysterio segment gained 1,657,000 new viewers making it the biggest gaining segment on a wrestling show in years. As far as where its getting him, Guerrero is scheduled to start a program with Batista after Summerslam.

[Angle-plex 0]

Just because Cena gets cheered by a bunch of stupid fucking 12 year olds doesn't mean that the rest of have to like him.

 

No but you should acknowledge the fact that Cena is very very over with almost everyone.

 

Wrong. He's over with WWE's current fanbase. He's NOT over with the majority of fans that stopped watching a few years ago, and it doesn't look like they'll be returning to watch Cena rap about Jericho being "cheap" and the like.

 

You can't hide the guys flaws forever either. Not to mention how his act is getting staler by the week....

[bob_barron 0]

Wrong. He's over with WWE's current fanbase. He's NOT over with the majority of fans that stopped watching a few years ago, and it doesn't look like they'll be returning to watch Cena rap about Jericho being "cheap" and the like.

 

That doesn't make any sense. Cena is over with people who watch the product. Saying he's not over with people who don't watch doesn't work, because you could say that about everyone.

 

Read the live reports. Cena usually gets the biggest pops and the biggest merch seller.

 

You can't hide the guys flaws forever either. Not to mention how his act is getting staler by the week....

 

You can hide someone's flaws if you book him correctly. Bookers have been doing that for years.

[Guest *KNK*]

You can't hide the guys flaws forever either. Not to mention how his act is getting staler by the week....

 

You can hide someone's flaws if you book him correctly. Bookers have been doing that for years.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Precisely.

 

Hogan and Taz are great examples of Bookers properly covering up a wrestler's flaws by highlighting their postitives.

 

John Cena with intelligent bookers and writers shouldn't be at risk to be "exposed" but is because of the monkeys that are in charge of him.

[Angle-plex 0]

Wrong. He's over with WWE's current fanbase. He's NOT over with the majority of fans that stopped watching a few years ago, and it doesn't look like they'll be returning to watch Cena rap about Jericho being "cheap" and the like.

 

That doesn't make any sense. Cena is over with people who watch the product. Saying he's not over with people who don't watch doesn't work, because you could say that about everyone.

 

Read the live reports. Cena usually gets the biggest pops and the biggest merch seller.

 

I remember being at the final Boston Garden show. Diesel faced Sid in the main event. Diesel also got the loudest pop of the night. Diesel was also the worst drawing champion ever.

 

The WWE should be trying to get the fans they lost back, not just desperatly trying to keep the current fans they have. Cena's not the man for that job. He's an ok champion for now, but having WM22 be "his night" again would be a mistake.

 

You can't hide the guys flaws forever either. Not to mention how his act is getting staler by the week....

 

You can hide someone's flaws if you book him correctly. Bookers have been doing that for years.

 

Cena's in the MAIN EVENTS. He'll have to work 20 minute + matches eventually if he wants to stay there, and weak and limited offense will look awful.

[Guest *KNK*]

Wrong. He's over with WWE's current fanbase. He's NOT over with the majority of fans that stopped watching a few years ago, and it doesn't look like they'll be returning to watch Cena rap about Jericho being "cheap" and the like.

 

That doesn't make any sense. Cena is over with people who watch the product. Saying he's not over with people who don't watch doesn't work, because you could say that about everyone.

 

Read the live reports. Cena usually gets the biggest pops and the biggest merch seller.

 

I remember being at the final Boston Garden show. Diesel faced Sid in the main event. Diesel also got the loudest pop of the night. Diesel was also the worst drawing champion ever.

 

The WWE should be trying to get the fans they lost back, not just desperatly trying to keep the current fans they have. Cena's not the man for that job. He's an ok champion for now, but having WM22 be "his night" again would be a mistake.

 

You can't hide the guys flaws forever either. Not to mention how his act is getting staler by the week....

 

You can hide someone's flaws if you book him correctly. Bookers have been doing that for years.

 

Cena's in the MAIN EVENTS. He'll have to work 20 minute + matches eventually if he wants to stay there, and weak and limited offense will look awful.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hulk Hogan wasn't exactly a brilliant mind when it came to work-rate but he was booked properly, flaws hidden and worked plently 20 minute plus matches and some were pretty damn good.

 

It's all about how you present the character and mask his flaws.

 

It's a process that has been done since the start of the industry and will always exist.

[bob_barron 0]

remember being at the final Boston Garden show. Diesel faced Sid in the main event. Diesel also got the loudest pop of the night. Diesel was also the worst drawing champion ever.

 

Was Diesel the #1 face at seemingly every arena with tons of fans wearing his merchandise? That show also didn't have Shawn Michaels on it.

 

The WWE should be trying to get the fans they lost back, not just desperatly trying to keep the current fans they have. Cena's not the man for that job. He's an ok champion for now, but having WM22 be "his night" again would be a mistake.

 

So if a champion doesn't immediately vault them into the 5s and 6s they should give someone else the belt? That makes no sense.

 

Cena's over with everyone and has crossover appeal and is momentum doesn't seem to be slowing. They need to keep the built on him as long as possible.

 

Cena's in the MAIN EVENTS. He'll have to work 20 minute + matches eventually if he wants to stay there, and weak and limited offense will look awful.

 

He'll be fine if they book to hide his limitations, as I said. And his overness can always help hide some of his weak offence. If the crowd pops for it, then his weak offence isn't really an issue.

 

By giving him a gimmick match with JBL, a three-way with Jericho and Christian, and singles matches with Jericho and Angle- they seem to be trying to book around his limitations, which is the right thing to do.

[CBright7831 0]

Great.

 

[snuffbox 0]

Hulk Hogan did pretty well back in the day with about the same workrate as Cena. And, really, HHH hasnt been much if any better in-ring than Cena the past few years. The big difference between HHH and Cena is that one is actually capable of making money.

[Angle-plex 0]

Was Diesel the #1 face at seemingly every arena with tons of fans wearing his merchandise? That show also didn't have Shawn Michaels on it.

 

Shawn was over and didn't draw either, so the point is mute.

 

So if a champion doesn't immediately vault them into the 5s and 6s they should give someone else the belt? That makes no sense.

 

He's essentially been the same character for three years now, and despite being "extremely over", he hasn't changed the ratings a bit on either Smackdown or RAW.

 

Hogan was a MUCH better worker than Cena. Better sense of timing, crowd psychology, and storytelling by far. Probably still is, but I can't say for sure until SummerSlam.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Wrong. He's over with WWE's current fanbase. He's NOT over with the majority of fans that stopped watching a few years ago, and it doesn't look like they'll be returning to watch Cena rap about Jericho being "cheap" and the like.

 

That doesn't make any sense. Cena is over with people who watch the product. Saying he's not over with people who don't watch doesn't work, because you could say that about everyone.

 

Read the live reports. Cena usually gets the biggest pops and the biggest merch seller.

 

You can't hide the guys flaws forever either. Not to mention how his act is getting staler by the week....

 

You can hide someone's flaws if you book him correctly. Bookers have been doing that for years.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Bookers flaws were (and have been) exposed for quite some time now. WCW Booker can make this argument work.

[Guest Rrrsh]

Was Diesel the #1 face at seemingly every arena with tons of fans wearing his merchandise? That show also didn't have Shawn Michaels on it.

 

Shawn was over and didn't draw either, so the point is mute.

 

So if a champion doesn't immediately vault them into the 5s and 6s they should give someone else the belt? That makes no sense.

 

He's essentially been the same character for three years now, and despite being "extremely over", he hasn't changed the ratings a bit on either Smackdown or RAW.

 

Hogan was a MUCH better worker than Cena. Better sense of timing, crowd psychology, and storytelling by far. Probably still is, but I can't say for sure until SummerSlam.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Point is mute?

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Moot or mute?

[bob_barron 0]

Shawn was over and didn't draw either, so the point is mute.

 

That wasn't the point I was trying to make.

 

He's essentially been the same character for three years now, and despite being "extremely over", he hasn't changed the ratings a bit on either Smackdown or RAW.

 

He has tweaked his character a bit. He became the rapper in November 02 and was supposed to be a joke that no one took seriously. Then his character evolved into being a legit rapper. He also dropped the pre-match raps and has also curbed calling everyone gay. He's also played up having more blue-collar roots.

 

he hasn't changed the ratings a bit on either Smackdown or RAW.

 

He's selling the merch, and his crossover appeal is nothing but a help to WWE.

 

Hogan was a MUCH better worker than Cena. Better sense of timing, crowd psychology, and storytelling by far. Probably still is, but I can't say for sure until SummerSlam.

 

I'm not going to refute Hogan being better then Cena, but staying he "probably still is" is absurd.

[CanadianChick 0]

So, if he comes back as a face who's the first to fall?

 

 

Awwwww fuck!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Nah, he needs a warmup first.

 

 

That's hilarious that these two would come back on that night though. The perfect time to revamp everything will be spoiled by the "huge return" of HHH and Flair. So it'll be like how it's been since 2002. Oh boy.

 

Oh, but he maybe a face! Yep, that totally changes everything! Instead of late '02, it'll be like early '02! Hey, and maybe Cena can play the role of RVD. Oh, wait a minute, Rob will be able to play that role again.

[Guest fanofcoils]

Cena is over or over and very over at times but I feel his reaction from the fans is still pretty lackluster. I don't think Cena impacts the ratings that greatly, unlike what the #1 face should do. I see him as an Austin/Rock lite. Is it Cena's fault that he isn't greatly impacting the ratings/buyrates or "no one can draw now"? I didn't mind Cena ever on Smackdown but his character is really testing my patience on Raw. I don't see any reason why to cheer the guy and any reason not to cheer Jericho in their feud. I think they are trying but failing to make an Austin/Vince copycat with Cena and Bischoff.

 

I don't buy Bischoff hating Cena because he is a "white thug" because I don't believe they ever went into the reasoning why Bischoff hates them. Even so, I think the crowd likes Cena because he has charisma, not really because of his white thug gimmick. I don't think Bischoff going after Cena because he is a "white thug" makes sense because I don't think the crowd is attached to Cena's gimmick but to his charisma, instead Bischoff should at least go after Cena primarily because he is against authority (like a true Austin/Vince ripoff). That could at least make things more interesting, not that it would be fresh and new.

I don't think they went far enough in the Cena won't kiss Bischoff's ass thing. If they did, it would be more amusing. I'm not sure why so many fans like Cena, I just don't understand it (and I'm not factoring in Cena's workrate). To me, Cena's lameness right now > his "charisma" right now.

[Guest fanofcoils]

To me, all the faces in WWE are bland and uninteresting, except Chris Benoit and it has nothing to do with his workrate. WWE needs to put an edge to their characters then I think they will compete with the heels in real charisma.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Benoit's been pretty fucking uninteresting since the jump. Passed around like a blunt from World Title to US Title to MNM Fodder in a very short time.

[BorneAgain 0]

Wrong. He's over with WWE's current fanbase. He's NOT over with the majority of fans that stopped watching a few years ago, and it doesn't look like they'll be returning to watch Cena rap about Jericho being "cheap" and the like.

 

That doesn't make any sense. Cena is over with people who watch the product. Saying he's not over with people who don't watch doesn't work, because you could say that about everyone.

 

Read the live reports. Cena usually gets the biggest pops and the biggest merch seller.

 

You can't hide the guys flaws forever either. Not to mention how his act is getting staler by the week....

 

You can hide someone's flaws if you book him correctly. Bookers have been doing that for years.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Bookers flaws were (and have been) exposed for quite some time now. WCW Booker can make this argument work.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think he means bookers as in writers not Booker T.

[Guest fanofcoils]

Benoit's been pretty fucking uninteresting since the jump. Passed around like a blunt from World Title to US Title to MNM Fodder in a very short time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I disagree, while he has been "lost in the shuffle" he still has that "uh oh" factor that HHH gave him when he put over Benoit as someone to be scared of. I find it great for instance when the mystery partner is revealed to be Benoit and the wrestler and/or SD commentators go "uh oh" like Cole or Tazz did a couple of weeks ago when Benoit was revealed to be Guerrero's opponent.

[RedJed 0]

Benoit's been pretty fucking uninteresting since the jump. Passed around like a blunt from World Title to US Title to MNM Fodder in a very short time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I disagree, while he has been "lost in the shuffle" he still has that "uh oh" factor that HHH gave him when he put over Benoit as someone to be scared of. I find it great for instance when the mystery partner is revealed to be Benoit and the wrestler and/or SD commentators go "uh oh" like Cole or Tazz did a couple of weeks ago when Benoit was revealed to be Guerrero's opponent.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You obviously have missed the US title match v. Jordan at the last ppv. That hurt his value immensily overall to the brand. He's now just another midcard talent that they try to say is a viable headliner, but they dont treat him as such.

[Guest fanofcoils]

Benoit's been pretty fucking uninteresting since the jump. Passed around like a blunt from World Title to US Title to MNM Fodder in a very short time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I disagree, while he has been "lost in the shuffle" he still has that "uh oh" factor that HHH gave him when he put over Benoit as someone to be scared of. I find it great for instance when the mystery partner is revealed to be Benoit and the wrestler and/or SD commentators go "uh oh" like Cole or Tazz did a couple of weeks ago when Benoit was revealed to be Guerrero's opponent.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You obviously have missed the US title match v. Jordan at the last ppv. That hurt his value immensily overall to the brand. He's now just another midcard talent that they try to say is a viable headliner, but they dont treat him as such.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I definitely know about what happened with him vs Jordan at the PPV. But I don't find it believable what happened, so it doesn't impact him in my eyes at this point. Maybe if he jobs out a lot more then I wouldn't be interested in him.

[cabbageboy 0]

Nah, Benoit's heat is dead and buried, at least to me. The guy jobbed fairly clean to ORLANDO JORDAN. He's fucked. No matter what Benoit does at this point, he still jobbed to Orlando Jordan. And it wasn't even sold as a shocking fluke.

 

I'm telling you, I think WWE is just tanking these last couple months of Raw on Spike TV and then once they're back on USA the show will improve dramatically. With or without the HHH/Flair return I had that notion.

 

Cena has had a few good matches (the JBL I Quit, the parking lot match with Eddie) but note his good stuff is hardly ever a regular 1 on 1 wrestling match.

 

As far as Cena's popularity goes, the guy is a crowd backlash waiting to happen. It happened to the Rock, a guy way more talented and over than Cena. It hasn't happened yet because Cena (as a face) hasn't had an extended feud with anyone worth shit. He spent most of last year squashing dipshits like Dupree, Suzuki, and Carlito...then he feuded with JBL (who has zero heat or credibility even after the long title run). Now he's feuding with a heatless Jericho. Next he gets a heatless Angle, who has spent the past few months jobbing to Booker T, being a sexual predator, jobbing to Shawn, and jobbing to a retard. And even then I think both Jericho and Angle will have segments of the audience cheering for them.

 

Speaking of Eddie, what is the source saying he is going after Batista post SS? God let it be true. The problem here is that Eddie has been jobbing ALL YEAR to Rey so how is he supposed to have any credibility to beat Batista? They literally almost have to put the title on Eddie via some ultra devious means to have it mean anything. In my opinion they never should have taken it off Eddie last year.

[Guest fanofcoils]

Nah, Benoit's heat is dead and buried, at least to me.  The guy jobbed fairly clean to ORLANDO JORDAN.  He's fucked.  No matter what Benoit does at this point, he still jobbed to Orlando Jordan.  And it wasn't even sold as a shocking fluke.

 

I'm telling you, I think WWE is just tanking these last couple months of Raw on Spike TV and then once they're back on USA the show will improve dramatically.  With or without the HHH/Flair return I had that notion.

 

Cena has had a few good matches (the JBL I Quit, the parking lot match with Eddie) but note his good stuff is hardly ever a regular 1 on 1 wrestling match. 

 

As far as Cena's popularity goes, the guy is a crowd backlash waiting to happen.  It happened to the Rock, a guy way more talented and over than Cena.  It hasn't happened yet because Cena (as a face) hasn't had an extended feud with anyone worth shit.  He spent most of last year squashing dipshits like Dupree, Suzuki, and Carlito...then he feuded with JBL (who has zero heat or credibility even after the long title run).  Now he's feuding with a heatless Jericho.  Next he gets a heatless Angle, who has spent the past few months jobbing to Booker T, being a sexual predator, jobbing to Shawn, and jobbing to a retard.  And even then I think both Jericho and Angle will have segments of the audience cheering for them.

 

Speaking of Eddie, what is the source saying he is going after Batista post SS?  God let it be true.  The problem here is that Eddie has been jobbing ALL YEAR to Rey so how is he supposed to have any credibility to beat Batista?  They literally almost have to put the title on Eddie via some ultra devious means to have it mean anything.  In my opinion they never should have taken it off Eddie last year.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I wouldn't call Carlito that because he has a strong character and therefore Cena beating him means something in my opinion. I think more or less Cena squashing JBL at Wrestlemania hurt JBL and I don't see him picking up the steam from there. I think he had a very strong character up to that point of the guy who beats everyone. Jericho may be heatless (not sure) but I find him entertaining so Cena beating Jericho would get him more over as a heel in my eyes (even though Cena is a face). Angle doesn't have much credibility other than saying he is an Olympic gold medalist. Eddie didn't job all year to Rey, you forgot about Eddy's bedtime story that put him over as a heel. Now if Rey comes out on top of this feud (which he likely will), Eddy won't be coming strong out of it obviously now if Eddy wins or reveals another bedtime story to end the feud (if that could happen) or whatever, then he would have a strong enough character to face Batista in my opinion. Eddie supposidly couldn't handle the title then, so they took it off of him.

[snuffbox 0]

Hasnt Benoit been getting standing ovations after all his matches lately? Didnt that lead to a world title push even after some jobs before?

[Guest JMA]

Triple H and Flair need to have a "Loser Leaves WWE" match.

[Downhome 0]

I'd rather see HHH on my TV, as the world champ, than ever seen John Cena and Edge. I don't care what anyone thinks about it either, I just dislike those two guys that much.

 

I know Cena is over, I just couldn't care less about that fact. I don't give a shit if someone is over or not, I just know who I like and who I don't like, and right now, I HATE Cena.

 

Hey Flair and HHH, come back...PLEASE!!!

 

I agree that we need a different heel on top though, and I don't think HHH should be the entire focus for a while. I've always thought that Jericho could be a perfect top heel if booked correctly. I'd even like to see TBS booked so that he is the monster that he was in WCW. There are plenty of options for WWE, but they'll never go for any of them.

[Downhome 0]

You can hide someone's flaws if you book him correctly. Bookers have been doing that for years.

 

Yeah, you sure can.

 

But as of right now, WWE sure as shit can't. If anything they have exposed the flaws of Edge, Cena, Batista, Carlito, and on and on and on. WWE is going through a period right now, it seems, where they love to show off the shittiest side of their workers, and put all of that in the spotlight, while holding down almost all of their good points.

 

They're doing it the most to Cena and Batista though, the world champs no less.

[Team Angle Pusher 0]

I think HHH vs. Cena will happen at WrestleMania because who else can Cena face then? HBK? I would like to see that happen more then against HHH but I don't think they'll do it at WM. Now I would let Cena drop the WWE Title HBK soon, HBK retains against Big Show and some Face HHH, then Cena beats HBK and HHH turns back Heel with HBK and together they try to dethrone Cena. Cena beats HHH at WM, HHH gets drafted to Smackdown! and gets his 11th World Title reign.

[Art Sandusky 0]

Maybe the crowd'll boo HHH during his return promo. Not the good kind of booing, like the "go away again" kinda booing. That'd be neat.