Bubba Ray Dudley calls TNA the"new ECW."

[Guest stringerbell]

During a Q&A session at the WrestleReunion Convention, Bubba Ray Dudley called TNA the "new ECW." He went as far as to say that he sees the same type of work ethic and drive in TNA that he saw in ECW.

[Slickster 0]

What he means is that TNA will run out of money and be bought by WWE in 2010.

[Guest Coffey]

I can see it. It has the feeling that the workers want it to succeed. You can tell that they're all trying hard and what it to be something.

[Guest MikeSC]

I can see it. It has the feeling that the workers want it to succeed. You can tell that they're all trying hard and what it to be something.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh Christ, not the whole "They try really hard" crap again. TNA can't be the new ECW as they have people who can actually work a little.

 

Though, I suppose, if they end up tanking when they get their national TV deal, it'd be fitting.

[Guest Coffey]

Are you saying that ECW didn't have guys that could work? Tajiri couldn't work? Jerry Lynn & Lance Storm couldn't work? Malenko, Benoit, Mysterio & Guerrero were all in ECW at one time too.

 

It's just another bullshit fucking statement.

[Guest JMA]

I don't know about TNA being the "new ECW," but it's definitely more entertaining than WWE right now. They actually have a tag division, for one thing.

[NoCalMike 0]

TNA the "new ECW" ?

 

Not with Double J booking the fuckin' thing.

[Guest MikeSC]

Are you saying that ECW didn't have guys that could work? Tajiri couldn't work? Jerry Lynn & Lance Storm couldn't work? Malenko, Benoit, Mysterio & Guerrero were all in ECW at one time too.

 

It's just another bullshit fucking statement.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

From 96 on, it was damned slim pickings. Damned slim. Don't blame me because ECW couldn't produce entertaining shows to save their lives.

 

Give me a promotion where garbage wrestling isn't the only type of match, please.

 

And Storm became much better after he left ECW. Ditto Lynn (whose TNA work was worlds better than his ECW crap).

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

Yes...because, you know, when only 2 matches on the card feature weapons, often very limited weapon usage, the whole card is filled with garbage wrestling.

 

Mike, seriously. Your ECW hate is just pathetic at this point.

[NoCalMike 0]

Are you saying that ECW didn't have guys that could work? Tajiri couldn't work? Jerry Lynn & Lance Storm couldn't work? Malenko, Benoit, Mysterio & Guerrero were all in ECW at one time too.

 

It's just another bullshit fucking statement.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

From 96 on, it was damned slim pickings. Damned slim. Don't blame me because ECW couldn't produce entertaining shows to save their lives.

 

Give me a promotion where garbage wrestling isn't the only type of match, please.

 

And Storm became much better after he left ECW. Ditto Lynn (whose TNA work was worlds better than his ECW crap).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

The thing is, not only is your over the top negative hate for ECW rare, but I'd be pretty hard-pressed to find anyone that watched ECW that would agree that they had trouble putting on entertaining matches after 1996.

 

We get it already you hate ECW.......enough now.

[Guest MikeSC]

Yes...because, you know, when only 2 matches on the card feature weapons, often very limited weapon usage, the whole card is filled with garbage wrestling.

 

Mike, seriously. Your ECW hate is just pathetic at this point.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, my disdain of ECW is based on suffering through their crap and having watched more of it than most of you here ("This is a great show!" they'd say. "Maybe it is" I'd think. They'd be proven wrong all of the time).

 

And their card was STACKED with garbage, top to bottom, and they had their assorted mutants who'd lap it up happily. If I was a marketing guy, I'd kill to have a fanbase who'd applaud anything my company churned out (well, actually, I'd kill to be profitable, but that's neither here nor there). ECW fans were as blinded to their flaws as Hulk Hogan is blinded to how inept he is in the ring. The ironic thing was how they'd portray everybody else as a "mark"

 

We'd get RVD churning out yawners on a nightly basis (yes, yawners). We'd have Dreamer and Sandman producing their special brand of crap. Balls Mahoney? Let's not even get into that. The Dudley Boys? Chilly Willy? New Jack? Rhino?

 

I know, balcony dives are EXTREME --- but they are also irritating, retarded, and industry-exposing --- as most of ECW tended to be (ONS was one of the worst shows this year simply because it was a pure ECW show).

 

It's sad that the ONLY watchable matches they had in 2000 were the few FBI v Mikey & Tajiri matches.

The thing is, not only is your over the top negative hate for ECW rare, but I'd be pretty hard-pressed to find anyone that watched ECW that would agree that they had trouble putting on entertaining matches after 1996.

 

We get it already you hate ECW.......enough now.

The ECW mutants were so blinded in their pure markdom that they couldn't see the blatant and obvious faults in their shitty, shitty product.

 

And you don't know many people who thought they didn't have entertaining matches after 1996? I have a company going belly up to back up my claims. What do you have? The same 30 people going "Well, they tried really hard. ECW! ECW! ECW!" Forgive me if I don't put a ton of faith in their opinion on it.

 

Smarks, as per usual, want a circle jerk. A differing view is threatening. So be it. I find ECW markdom beyond obnoxious and I have no problem, reserves, or concerns about unloading on it.

 

ECW was better than WCW or WWE for one year after they hit PPV. (in 1999, it was better than WCW). Otherwise, they were clearly second-rate indy garbage. The company's death was a mercy killing.

 

And the Dudley Boys became an unwatchable team after 2001. One of the worst teams the WWE had in a period where tag team wrestling was virtually dead. So, of course, TNA will make them champs because rehashing a company who couldn't churn a profit to save their lives is great business.

[Ripper 0]

That was a very well written response. Doesn't make you any more or less wrong, but still...very well thought out.

 

First: How can you call the Dudley's stale when you outright admit that the tag division sucked. The Dudleys, and the rest of the tag division became the crew to come out and get the crowd loud for some spots. No angles, no match building, just a match announced before the shows where the Duds would do their signature spots while yelling at the crowd to get them to pop for wazzups and tables and 3D. You can barely blame filler talent for being filler. Bottomline, we all know (yes, even you) that the Duds are capable of a lot more, and given decent competition and a reason to care abou them, they would florish in a tag team division.

 

The dudleys, Rhino, RVD (yes...the yawner guy), Jerry Lynn, Steve Corino, Tajiri, Little Guido, Tony Marmaluke, Super Crazy, Lance Storm, Justin Credible(IF and only IF he was facing Storm, or Lynn) where all putting on damn good matches for ECW. You had your filler of Nova/Meanie/who the fuck ever, and sometimes the Duds fell into this catagory, or the usual New Jack match that was paint by numbers, but to claim the card was top to bottom New Jack type matches is just plain, unarguably wrong.

 

And you must have really hated old school wrestling, because the "yawner" portion of RVD's ECW matches was a mirror of old school heel stalling tactics. He stalled like a mutha fucka for the first 5 minutes of a match, and then they would go at it. But you were the same one trying to argue that the Lynn/RVD matches weren't good, so I know you will disagree.

 

I think the quality of ECW falls somewhere in between where you put it and where a ECW mark puts it. It is nowhere near as bad as you pretend it was and it was nowhere as good as some people have pretended it was. It was wrestling that featured a couple of good matches a night, and depending on what you liked, some entertaining/garbage matches...just like most other promotions...except TNA so far because I usually like at least 3 matches per outing from those guys(PPV...not Impact)

[Dangerous A 0]

And the Dudley Boys became an unwatchable team after 2001. One of the worst teams the WWE had in a period where tag team wrestling was virtually dead. So, of course, TNA will make them champs because rehashing a company who couldn't churn a profit to save their lives is great business.

 

 

I totally agree that the Dudley Boys were stale as hell in 2001 after their WMX7 TLC match. They peaked with a spot-fu match and haven't gone anywhere since.

 

However, you are assuming TNA will make them champs. Hell, they haven't even been hired yet. If their asking price for indy shots is an indication of what they want ($5000 a match, $10,000 for the duo) then they will not be TNA bound as they simply don't have the jack for it and they would upset the payscale because even Jarrett is only making around $2500 a match, and he's tops in payout.

 

You can't assume just because Bubba Dudley says the TNA lockerroom is similar to ECW's in terms of working together, that TNA is going for a rehash of ECW. I will wait until TNA makes a mistake like trying to be another ECW instead of just being themselves before making pre-emptive criticisms.

[NoCalMike 0]

EDIT: skip this

[NoCalMike 0]

The ECW mutants were so blinded in their pure markdom that they couldn't see the blatant and obvious faults in their shitty, shitty product.

 

And you don't know many people who thought they didn't have entertaining matches after 1996? I have a company going belly up to back up my claims. What do you have? The same 30 people going "Well, they tried really hard. ECW! ECW! ECW!" Forgive me if I don't put a ton of faith in their opinion on it.

 

Smarks, as per usual, want a circle jerk. A differing view is threatening. So be it. I find ECW markdom beyond obnoxious and I have no problem, reserves, or concerns about unloading on it.

 

ECW was better than WCW or WWE for one year after they hit PPV. (in 1999, it was better than WCW). Otherwise, they were clearly second-rate indy garbage. The company's death was a mercy killing.

 

 

Why is everything with ECW either you were a "mutant" or you hated it?

 

I am not from Philly, have never attended an ECW show in my life, but somehow I managed to enjoy matches beyond 1996 from the company. Enjoying a match and "ECW markdom" are two different things, they don't coincide

 

Once again, you saying something is "shitty" or even "shitty shitty" doesn't make it so, it is merely your opinion which you are entitled to, and like I have said, it is rare to find anyone with such a low opinion on their matches as you do. This would be like me claiming that because I think the Bret Hart/HBK Iron man match was an overrated resthold match, yet someone else enjoyed it, that they are nothing but a WWE lemming. I mean what does being better then WWE/WCW as an entire product have to do with having entertaining matches on the card? Why are you equating a match or two with an entire product/brand?

[Guest MikeSC]

That was a very well written response.  Doesn't make you any more or less wrong, but still...very well thought out. 

 

First:  How can you call the Dudley's stale when you outright admit that the tag division sucked.

The Dudleys were a part of the horrid tag division. Their matches became the personification of "cookie cutter". You could call almost all of the spots before they did them and seldom were you incorrect.

The Dudleys, and the rest of the tag division became the crew to come out and get the crowd loud for some spots.  No angles, no match building, just a match announced before the shows where the Duds would do their signature spots while yelling at the crowd to get them to pop for wazzups and tables and 3D.  You can barely blame filler talent for being filler.  Bottomline, we all know (yes, even you) that the Duds are capable of a lot more, and given decent competition and a reason to care abou them, they would florish in a tag team division.

Without somebody significantly better than them to carry them, the Duds were mediocre on their best days. I think Bubba has some talent, but D-Von was just a bad, bad performer.

The dudleys, Rhino, RVD (yes...the yawner guy), Jerry Lynn, Steve Corino, Tajiri, Little Guido, Tony Marmaluke, Super Crazy, Lance Storm, Justin Credible(IF and only IF he was facing Storm, or Lynn) where all putting on damn good matches for ECW.

I actually defy you to name the "good" Rhino, Duds, Corino, or Credible matches. Tajiri seemed to face only Crazy and Guido, which became tiresome. And RVD was terrible. He never could work a competent match. Horrendously tedious. The WWE made him watchable --- and RVD is no great shakes in the WWE.

 

As for the rest, Lynn never did squat for me, but others love him, so be it. Storm? He was stuck carrying that useless luggage Credible around. And I thought the FBI v Tajiri & Mikey matches were excellent in ECW. They were the ONLY excellent matches ECW had in 2000.

You had your filler of Nova/Meanie/who the fuck ever, and sometimes the Duds fell into this catagory, or the usual New Jack match that was paint by numbers, but to claim the card was top to bottom New Jack type matches is just plain, unarguably wrong. 

They'd go from mindless spotfests to garbage brawls.

And you must have really hated old school wrestling, because the "yawner" portion of RVD's ECW matches was a mirror of old school heel stalling tactics.

I missed Flair doing the spot - rest - spot thing.

He stalled like a mutha fucka for the first 5 minutes of a match

And the second 5 minutes.

Followed by the 3rd five minutes.

And so on...

and then they would go at it.  But you were the same one trying to argue that the Lynn/RVD matches weren't good, so I know you will disagree. 

They, to be generous, were mediocre matches. I couldn't give one more than *** in good faith. Incredibly slow matches.

 

RVD's WWE work smokes his ECW work --- and I'm not a big fan of his WWE work.

[Guest MikeSC]

Why is everything with ECW either you were a "mutant" or you hated it?

 

I am not from Philly, have never attended an ECW show in my life, but somehow I managed to enjoy matches beyond 1996 from the company. Enjoying a match and "ECW markdom" are two different things, they don't coincide

 

Once again, you saying something is "shitty" or even "shitty shitty" doesn't make it so, it is merely your opinion which you are entitled to, and like I have said, it is rare to find anyone with such a low opinion on their matches as you do.  This would be like me claiming that because I think the Bret Hart/HBK Iron man match was an overrated resthold match, yet someone else enjoyed it, that they are nothing but a WWE lemming. I mean what does being better then WWE/WCW as an entire product have to do with having entertaining matches on the card?  Why are you equating a match or two with an entire product/brand?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Of everyone here, I'm the one LEAST guilty of using one or two matches to paint an entire product/brand.

 

And when you have a promotion whose fans loved to pretend that everybody besides them were "marks", don't expect a lot of concern for the precious feelings of their fans.

[Vyce 0]

I'm with Mike - ECW had far, far more shitty, garbage wrestlers than actually talented workers. And the actual good workers didn't really have great matches until they LEFT the promotion. I don't know if it was just the ECW style or what.

 

I watched ECW, I have many of their PPVs in my collection, I liked some of their workers, but really....they were never really any good. At all. At their best, they were maybe mediocre. Honestly, WCW - at its lowest point, during the really dark and awful days of 99 and 00 - was still a far better company. Far better.

 

But people, inexplicably, still love ECW. I'm not sure why.....maybe it's the whole maverick image they pulled off. People liked that they were rebels or some shit like that. Because I can't honestly see that many people adoring ECW for the garbage wrestling.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

I actually defy you to name the "good" Rhino, Duds, Corino, or Credible matches. Tajiri seemed to face only Crazy and Guido, which became tiresome. And RVD was terrible. He never could work a competent match. Horrendously tedious. The WWE made him watchable --- and RVD is no great shakes in the WWE.

Rhino

Rhino vs. Rob Van Dam, Anarchy Rulz '00

Rhino vs. Spike Dudley, November 2 Remember '00

(These two matches have stiff shots, decent storytelling, great heat, and are at the very least entertaining, which is more than I can say for the majority of work in most other promotions.)

 

Dudley Boyz

Dudley Boyz vs. Tommy Dreamer, The Sandman, and Spike Dudley

(Yes, most Dudley Boyz matches were ultimately forgettable, and this match is only memorable for the feud that it blew off where Beulah's neck was broken. It was how good at being heels they were in ECW, regardless of the fact that they relied on cheap heat too much since the cheap heat oftentimes came close to starting riots, that makes their ECW work stand out.)

 

Corino

Steve Corino vs. Tajiri - Hardcore Heaven '00

Steve Corino vs. Jerry Lynn - Heat Wave '00

(Again, Corino's matches in ECW were ultimately forgettable, but it was his character and how he portrayed himself that made ECW fans watch.)

 

Justin Credible

Justin Credible vs. Jerry Lynn - Heat Wave '98 (and the whole summer series at that)

Justin Credible vs. Tommy Dreamer - Guilty as Charged '99

Justin Credible/Lance Storm vs. Tommy Dreamer/Shane Douglas - Living Dangerously '99

Justin Credible/Lance Storm vs. Rob Van Dam/Jerry Lynn - Heat Wave '99

Justin Credible/Lance Storm vs. Tommy Dreamer/Masato Tanaka vs. Mike Awesome/Raven - Living Dangerously '00

Justin Credible vs. Lance Storm - Hardcore Heaven '00

Justin Credible vs. Jerry Lynn - Anarchy Rulz '00

(Credible's way too underrated as a wrestler, in my book. Is he great? Hell no. He's just a bit above Billy Gunn in terms of talent, but even Billy Gunn had good matches with the right opponents - Jamie Noble, Mick Foley, The Rock - and Credible gelled VERY well with Jerry Lynn, Tommy Dreamer, and Lance Storm.)

 

and then they would go at it.  But you were the same one trying to argue that the Lynn/RVD matches weren't good, so I know you will disagree. 

They, to be generous, were mediocre matches. I couldn't give one more than *** in good faith. Incredibly slow matches.

I'll agree with you here wholeheartedly. I think the Van Dam/Lynn series is one of the most overrated feuds in the history of wrestling, and definitely THE most overrated in ECW. The only reason it's fondly remembered is because no other feuds during 1999 featured 20-25 minutes of insane highspots on a national level.

RVD's WWE work smokes his ECW work --- and I'm not a big fan of his WWE work.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'll have to disagree with you here to an extent. RVD's early WWE work smokes his late ECW work. After the Guerrero feud, RVD hasn't done anything remotely worth watching, outside of a couple of good spots against Kane during their short feud, in WWE, and his late ECW was exactly what you hate about him: nothing but stalling and a few highspots. His work in ECW until mid-1999 was solid, and the stalling worked for the character, but after that? It ruined his matches, I agree. That's one of the reasons I like Rhino/RVD so much: Rhino didn't let Van Dam do much stalling.

 

EDIT:

And Vyce, the reason why so many love ECW is because of the overall atmosphere. Not even just the whole "oooh, we're fucking rebels" feel to it that became forced later on, but because you could tell that most of the workers were there because they wanted to be and not because they just needed a paycheck (since, you know, Paul E sucks at math).

[Ripper 0]

Justin Credible is so underrated because if you made a list of who deserved the title in ECW for that time period, Justin Credible would have been near the bottom of the list. He was just not championship material, but still a solid worker(better than Gunn for christ sake) just not a spectacular.

[Guest Coffey]

Off topic: Where'd that avatar come from, Ripper? That chick's hot. I need vids.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Justin Credible is so underrated because if you made a list of who deserved the title in ECW for that time period, Justin Credible would have been near the bottom of the list.  He was just not championship material, but still a solid worker(better than Gunn for christ sake) just not a spectacular.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Justin doesn't get nearly enough credit around these parts for whatever reason. He's a very solid worker, can talk pretty well, and knows exactly how and when to bump. He deserves a shot in TNA.

[Ripper 0]

Off topic: Where'd that avatar come from, Ripper? That chick's hot. I need vids.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Onionbooty.com. Her name is Vivianne. I am in love.

[Guest Coffey]

Justin Credible is so underrated because if you made a list of who deserved the title in ECW for that time period, Justin Credible would have been near the bottom of the list.  He was just not championship material, but still a solid worker(better than Gunn for christ sake) just not a spectacular.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Justin doesn't get nearly enough credit around these parts for whatever reason. He's a very solid worker, can talk pretty well, and knows exactly how and when to bump. He deserves a shot in TNA.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I've always liked him too. I thought he made a great ECW champion because he was so easy to hate.

[Carnival 0]

Off topic: Where'd that avatar come from, Ripper? That chick's hot. I need vids.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Onionbooty.com. Her name is Vivianne. I am in love.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

great site.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

Justin Credible is so underrated because if you made a list of who deserved the title in ECW for that time period, Justin Credible would have been near the bottom of the list.  He was just not championship material, but still a solid worker(better than Gunn for christ sake) just not a spectacular.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Justin doesn't get nearly enough credit around these parts for whatever reason. He's a very solid worker, can talk pretty well, and knows exactly how and when to bump. He deserves a shot in TNA.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ehhhh...he had a shot in TNA that ended with a less-than-stellar rehash of the feud with Lynn which didn't make much sense in the first place (in ECW, the feud started as just the two trying to out-do each other, then Lynn got pissed that Credible used his entourage to win so it got personal, and then it was over the World title), since it all started because Lynn was angry over ECW and the lack of paychecks he got and Credible said it was a great place to work.

 

Plus, Credible works best in ECW-style "mix wrestling with garbage brawling" matches, and TNA doesn't do many of those outside of the main event, and I don't wanna see him in the main event.

[cabbageboy 0]

The RVD/Lynn series was great but it's the most well remembered matches that are the overrated ones. For instance, I recall a brilliant match they had in 1998 (technically before they really feuded I guess) where RVD had his eyelid almost torn by a table shred. Though their best match to me was the ultra intense early TNN match where Lynn had taped ribs (Impact Players attacked him) and the crowd was insane wanting Jerry to win.

 

WCW in 1999-2000 was fucking garbage, ECW was easily better. Christ at least even if it was garbage style wrestling it was fun and entertaining. WCW was boring as hell, angles bad, wrestling bad. I dare say at the point ECW first got a TV deal they had the strongest in ring product (which might not be saying much...take a look at shows like KOTR 99 or BATB 99).

 

I think I'm one of the few who likes late era ECW over the 1995-96 stuff. That said there is one thing I agree with, and that is RVD got stale by the later part of 2000. His matches had more and more stalling. He desperately needed to be pushed to the world title, and it was too obvious that since he wasn't getting that pushed in 2000 he stopped giving a shit (not being paid probably hurt too).

[CBright7831 0]

TNA the "new ECW" ?

 

Not with Double J booking the fuckin' thing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought he was no longer a booker.

[Placebo Effect 0]

TNA the "new ECW" ?

 

Not with Double J booking the fuckin' thing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought he was no longer a booker.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

He isn't.

 

Certain people just like to troll at every opportunity.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Jarrett's influence over the product is undeniable. He has two buddies on the booking team. It's still conceivable to think Jarrett has a say in how the product goes. Don't be naive.

 

Edit: Though I will admit his power has gone down considerably after the Carters realized that the only reason TNA was around was to be his personal playground and they quickly...ok not so quickly...put a stop to it on a grand scale.