OAO Spike and UFC vs. USA and WWE thread

[Guest Brian]

I can imagine the WWE will be damaged by SpikeTV drawing, roughly, 1/4 of their usual audience immediately after RAW leaves. That'll show the WWE.

 

Any channel that is actually holding a grudge like that is run by children and don't have a clue what to do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

RAW's rating was a 7.2 last week?

[Styles 0]

And...from Bryan Alvarez of Figure Four Weekly:

 

For those thinking it's absurd that UFC should be or will be considered competition to WWE, keep in mind that the M18-34 rating for Ultimate Fighter this past Monday night was a 3.71. Raw did a 3.83. And don't think Vince isn't going to blow a gasket soon with all the UFC commercials on his show.

 

Looks like the potential for competition is a lot more real than AMikeSC percieves.

[Styles 0]

Meltzer confirms it on the wrestling side:

 

--Spike TV is getting more aggressive with UFC and TNA programming. There will be a live UFC TV special featuring Stephan Bonnar vs. James Irvin and Evan Tanner vs. David Loiseau on 10/3, going head-up with Raw's debut on the USA Network. The show will be from Las Vegas, although the location is being kept under wraps and won't be from the Cox Pavilion, as the prior Spike specials have come from. It also appears Spike will be adding a midnight Eastern time Monday night second showing of TNA, after Ultimate Fighter. There will be a lot of promotional wars heating up next month. Some of the most interesting notes on tonight's Raw show will be what is going to be advertised.

[Guest *KNK*]

Why are they keeping the location of the special a secrect?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Cause it's not confimed yet, most likely. Zuffa doesn't like to announce things without confirmation. Throughout the entire TV-deal process, Dana wouldn't give out any specifics until the ink was dried.

[Guest Brian]

Hey, does anyone know if there was a holdover audience that watched USA when RAW left the channel (leaving a sizable dent in the audience in that first (and next few) quarter hours for the night?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Well, since RAW went over about 10 minutes, I think we have our answer for whether or not the WWE was going to respond. SPIKE needs to fine them or something.

[justcoz 0]

I still think they are overlooking the fact that much of pro wrestling's audience are not necessarily fans of ultimate fighting. It would be more logical to put TNA on at 9pm, at least the night of Raw's USA debut and hype the hell out of UFC action that will run from 10pm to midnight. Raw's first quarter hour always seems to be on the low end because everyone fears the 25 minute HHH promo and would rather watch the beginning of Monday Night Football. Raw gains viewers as the evening progresses so there would probably be some people tuning into Spike for the first time around 10pm.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

UFC is a more favourable property than TNA, to not only SPIKE but to advertisers as well. As mentioned before, UFC successfully caters to the same desirable demographics as the WWE does, and already has achieved relatively high ratings for the network. Simply put, the UFC is a more proven product than TNA.

[Guest Brian]

Not to mention pay-off in terms of advertisers.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I DID MENTION THAT!

 

*throws fist up (while holding a can of XYIENCE)*

 

*sniffs underarm (applies RIGHT GUARD)*

 

*looks outside (see's people enjoying their freedom, joins US ARMY)*

 

*goes to the army recruitment centre (stops by Burger King to pick up some CHICKEN FRIES)*

[CanadianChick 0]

I HATE those Chicken Fries commercials. It makes me actively not want to try them.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I tried them, they aren't very good.

 

Infact, they aren't much better than the commercials.

[Guest Brian]

Rudo got no sold.

[Guest MikeSC]

Weren't there talks last year or so about Vince trying to get Tito Ortiz in WWE?  Or were those totally unsubstantiated?

 

Of course, I wouldn't put it past Vince to try to buy the biggest UFC name willing to whore himself out and get buried on WWE TV just to make UFC "look bad."  Although the thought of Tito knocking Edge dafugout with a single punch is amusing. 

 

I don't expect it to get a huge audience right away, but WWE is experiencing no growth worth mentioning.  There might be plenty of disillusioned WWE viewers (and considering, in general, the core audience is aging), they might be open to a more mature product.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hah! If that's true, then Vince is pulling more of his hair out because Tito Ortiz did a TNA PPV for them as a special referee a couple months ago and the chatter is TNA is going to bring in Tito and Ken Shamrock for the Spike show and promote a worked match between the two in order to keep the UFC audience watching.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because if there is one thing UFC fans love, it's worked matches involving their guys.

[justcoz 0]

UFC is a more favourable property than TNA, to not only SPIKE but to advertisers as well. As mentioned before, UFC successfully caters to the same desirable demographics as the WWE does, and already has achieved relatively high ratings for the network. Simply put, the UFC is a more proven product than TNA.

 

I'm not disputing that at all and I don't expect anyone to agree with me because TNA isn't proven at all. I'm saying that there is a larger audience from 10:00pm forward at least according to RAW rating trends. Monday Night Football's audience also flips around if the game is uneventful. Pro wrestling fans will tune in at 9pm out of habit and when they don't see guys flipping around in a wrestling ring or screaming into the mic they will know that something just isn't right and will channel surf to find RAW. I just personally think an alternative pro wrestlling product would hold their attention longer before a complete alternative to the spectacle they've grown accustomed to. Ultimate Fighter does score relatively high ratings but it's also proven to lose a sizeable audience from the RAW overrun. Also, since this will be a live "special attraction" presentation, they need to keep in mind that RAW on USA isn't the only cut into their demographic but Monday Night Football as well. Perhaps more so than pro wrestling. Why not go for a potentially larger audience from 10 to midnight, picking up the audience that leaves both WWE and MNF with a replay of Ultimate Fighter at midnight?

 

It just makes more sense to me. They aren't going to run two hour UFC specials in RAW's slot on a weekly basis so there is no "monday night war" to launch. They have one hour of Ultimate Fighter and one hour of TNA wrestling. Why not try to bring a pro wrestling audience to their new pro wrestling product? Obviously I'm overlooking the ad revenue they could generate with UFC in prime time vs. TNA I suppose. I understand their position, I just question it somewhat.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

The UFC has still managed to pick up more amount of wrestling fans than anything else that SPIKE has put on after it. There is no way that they can retain 100% of the audience, simply because of the fact that it finishes at midnight and most WWE fans are either too young or too old to stay up that late. The fact that they pick up around 50% of the audience is pretty impressive.

 

The "logic" behind the decision is that if a fan turns on to see two guys really beating the shit out of each other, why would they turn the channel to see two guys pretending to beat the shit out of each other?

 

While airing TNA at that time wouldn't be a bad idea either, and that airing a UFC show is a bit of a risk, I think the rewards would be greater with the UFC. If someone turns to see a pro wrestling program, that pro wrestling program better be damn good if it is to compete with the WWE (not saying that RAW is damn good, because it isn't. It's just RAW is more familiar and "trusted" pro wrestling product.)

 

Meanwhile, UFC doesn't have to compete on a pro wrestling level with pro wrestling fans - all it has to do is be really fucking exciting and fresh, and the UFC's track record on that is very good. Lots of MMA fans are or were pro wrestling fans, so its not like it's an entirely different product. It does, however, offer a heightened experience than pro wrestling does, because it's real. SPIKE knows they can get a 1.8 audience to watch the UFC on its own, now the test is to see if they will watch the UFC over the WWE. If the people who have watched the last two Ultimate Fight Nights see Stephan Bonnar in the octagon, I think they'll stay with SPIKE simply because Bonnar delivers like nobody else.

[Hogan Made Wrestling 0]

Weren't there talks last year or so about Vince trying to get Tito Ortiz in WWE?  Or were those totally unsubstantiated?

 

Of course, I wouldn't put it past Vince to try to buy the biggest UFC name willing to whore himself out and get buried on WWE TV just to make UFC "look bad."  Although the thought of Tito knocking Edge dafugout with a single punch is amusing. 

 

I don't expect it to get a huge audience right away, but WWE is experiencing no growth worth mentioning.  There might be plenty of disillusioned WWE viewers (and considering, in general, the core audience is aging), they might be open to a more mature product.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hah! If that's true, then Vince is pulling more of his hair out because Tito Ortiz did a TNA PPV for them as a special referee a couple months ago and the chatter is TNA is going to bring in Tito and Ken Shamrock for the Spike show and promote a worked match between the two in order to keep the UFC audience watching.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because if there is one thing UFC fans love, it's worked matches involving their guys.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No kidding. The last thing I want to see is the Inoki worked-shoot style nonsense come to light in North America. A worked MMA match is a really boring pro wrestling match.

 

I can just see Jarrett becoming the North American Ogawa with all sorts of worked wins over MMA fighters.

[Styles 0]

Weren't there talks last year or so about Vince trying to get Tito Ortiz in WWE?  Or were those totally unsubstantiated?

 

Of course, I wouldn't put it past Vince to try to buy the biggest UFC name willing to whore himself out and get buried on WWE TV just to make UFC "look bad."  Although the thought of Tito knocking Edge dafugout with a single punch is amusing. 

 

I don't expect it to get a huge audience right away, but WWE is experiencing no growth worth mentioning.  There might be plenty of disillusioned WWE viewers (and considering, in general, the core audience is aging), they might be open to a more mature product.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hah! If that's true, then Vince is pulling more of his hair out because Tito Ortiz did a TNA PPV for them as a special referee a couple months ago and the chatter is TNA is going to bring in Tito and Ken Shamrock for the Spike show and promote a worked match between the two in order to keep the UFC audience watching.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because if there is one thing UFC fans love, it's worked matches involving their guys.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No kidding. The last thing I want to see is the Inoki worked-shoot style nonsense come to light in North America. A worked MMA match is a really boring pro wrestling match.

 

I can just see Jarrett becoming the North American Ogawa with all sorts of worked wins over MMA fighters.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Perhaps I didn't speak clearly enough. When I said a worked match, I meant just that, a worked match, i.e. a pro wrestling match, I didn't mean a "fake MMA" match. Sorry for the confusion.

[cameron chaos 0]

I can see Daniel Puder being brought up as a stupid musclehead "MMA fighter" character sooner rather than later in retaliation to this, much like the "UPN representative" brought in after Hassan got banned from being broadcast. Vince will not try better his product, he will try to mock and degrade his detractors in the most inane and imnmature way he can think of.

[Guest Brian]

*cough*RTC*cough*

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I love UWF-i.

 

Sorry, just felt like saying that.

 

They will bring Puder in as the "UFP" - the Ultimate Fighting Puder. He will lose to Big Vis his first night in after pulling guard and in a horrific display of vulgarity, Vis will stay in guard with a big smile on his face.

[Dangerous A 0]

No kidding. The last thing I want to see is the Inoki worked-shoot style nonsense come to light in North America. A worked MMA match is a really boring pro wrestling match.

 

I can just see Jarrett becoming the North American Ogawa with all sorts of worked wins over MMA fighters.

 

 

You won't be seeing worked-shoot style in North America because Vince McMahon isn't obssessed with shooters like Inoki is. Vince is obssessed with hosses. Get it right.

 

You also won't see it in TNA because none of the guys can work a great looking worked shoot like UWF-i, so they won't bother to try. If anything, they would attempt to get Ortiz to conform to the pro-style, which will basically mean Ortiz will be Ken Shamrock with more bad boy charisma.

 

By the way, not all worked-shoot style is nonsense. RRR beat me to it. UWF-i had incredible matches and there are a few NJPW worked shoots that I enjoyed. Don't get me wrong, it is helping to kill NJPW right now, but the last thing I'd call it is boring.

[cameron chaos 0]

You also won't see it in TNA because none of the guys can work a great looking worked shoot like UWF-i

 

I think Samoa Joe and Christopher Daniels could work one if they chose to, however I think shootstyle matches would go against the total non stop action ethos.

[razazteca 0]

Where is Vader?

[benoit4hor 0]

That UFC card looks like crap.

 

Plus they're probably gonna replay it anyways in a different timeslot.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

David Loiseau vs. Evan Tanner is an awesome fight.

 

Bonnar vs. Anyone is good.

 

Koscheck vs. Fickett, Dewees vs. Leben.. well, that's probably all they'd show for 2 hours. Solid card, with a great headliner.

[Vyce 0]

I love UWF-i.

 

Sorry, just felt like saying that.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I enjoy UWF-i. Probably because it's more like professional wrestling than MMA, which probably explains why I can watch UWF-i for more than 30 seconds without being bored into a coma.

 

Vince should hire some of the old UWF-i workers to compete. I'm dying to see a HHH / Yoji Anjoh match.

[benoit4hor 0]

Ok I take it back

 

- Evan Tanner vs. David Loiseau

- Stephan Bonnar vs James Irvin

- Josh Koscheck vs Drew Fickett

- Chris Leben vs Edwin Dewees

 

 

Thats descent if it's free, I don't think anyone would pay for that though. The undercard is a lot of nothing though.

[Guest Brian]

David Loiseau vs. Evan Tanner is an awesome fight.

 

Bonnar vs. Anyone is good.

 

Koscheck vs. Fickett, Dewees vs. Leben.. well, that's probably all they'd show for 2 hours.  Solid card, with a great headliner.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Bonnar and Irvin should provide some good fireworks, and if Fickett can be active on the ground it should be good. Dewees only KO was at the hands of Franklin, so it should be interesting to see how things go in that fight (I hope Leben throws down like he does in the PacNW). Loiseau and Tanner are both going to be bringing it and they both have something to prove.