HBK is a little unhappy

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Better get unhooked off WWE while the going is bad and you have an excuse to. I know I did this year.

[Guest *KNK*]

I watch the WWE because it's on free TV, well aware that it sucks nuts.  I won't fool myself into thinking I'm watching something good, rather than watching something that's simply just "on" and is more out of habit than anything.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Of course I'm sure one of these idiots will say

 

"If it's free, you dont have to watch it, change the channel".

 

I'm just getting that out of the way so Iggy or someone else won't have to waste what little oxygen they have left to make the daunting effort to make that riveting counter-point.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

How exactly is RRR's (one of the very few people here, who have a clue what he is talking about) post percentage supposed to indicate that he isn't allowed to dicuss WWE?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It doesn't. He's just trying to find a way to avoid having the huge flaws in his arguments pointed out.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Hey, soon enough I'll be done with them. The growth of MMA (superior, more exciting product), coupled with the past 5 years of decline, has me watching -MAYBE- 1 hour of wrestling a week.

 

Just wait a while, I'll be gone

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Just wait a while, I'll be gone

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And have Iggy and co fill the forum with idiotic crap? I don't think so. You're not leaving.

[Guest *KNK*]

Just wait a while, I'll be gone

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And have Iggy and co fill the forum with idiotic crap? I don't think so. You're not leaving.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

RRR doesn't even need to bother watching the product because nothing is changing. RRR can go on automatic and wouldn't miss a beat.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I thought it was pretty clear I've been on cruise control ever since... let's say... WM 20. When they ruined (for me) Benoits big title win, they pretty much killed whatever was left for me in wrestling.

 

Ah well. *watches Fedor/Cro Cop*

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Just wait a while, I'll be gone

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And have Iggy and co fill the forum with idiotic crap? I don't think so. You're not leaving.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

RRR doesn't even need to bother watching the product because nothing is changing. RRR can go on automatic and wouldn't miss a beat.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It used to be that not watching wrestling left you behind the times. Now, it doesn't matter if you watch or not, because things will stay exactly how you left them.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Yeah, nowadays it's just the McMahons repeating their past mistakes. They can't even screw up in a fresh way.

[Perfxion 0]

You know what the real sad part of this is, the wrestler that sparked this mini debate on wrestling outside the WWF was infact WWF Lightheavyweight Champ in 1982(I know, I know, don't bother). Infact in 82 had a hell of a match with Dynamite in MSG.

 

The thing is, WWF/E wants tocall itself a world wrestling company. They claim to have the best wrestlers in the world under their belt. Often times, a wrestler's career low is IN the WWF/E rather than other places. Ultimo Dragon and Ricky Steamboat are clear examples of this.

 

Tying this all back to HBK, HBK is not that great and when people call him one of the best in North Americia, they are failing to look outside the WWE. I seen many a times that HBK was called the best worker in the world, god know why, and that makes it so every one under the sun can be brought in. And if you want to keep these things into the WWE only, he doesn't even keep in the top 10 of any given year.

 

As for getting into Puro/Lucha/ect. Just use Kazaa or Limewire and download a match or two. Hell look up Full Match and have fun. Its free and it can download next to the cheap vivid porn that all those fanboys love.

[slabinskia 0]

To be honest,I don't care enough about wrestling anymore to buy stuff like tna,roh,etc.I do however,like mid 90s all japan.

 

Anyone who doesn't think they would get into puro,here is what I suggest.

 

Get some tapes of matchs in japan that involve american wrestlers.When I first started watching puro I had someone send me matches including:

 

hansen/kobashi 7/93

williams/kawada 4/94

flair/tsuruta

williams/gordy-masawa/kawada rwtl 91

furnas/kroffat-kobashi/kikuchi

vader/inoki 1/96 (new japan)

 

After watching those and a few others I decided I wanted to see more matches with tsuruta,kawada,misawa,kobashi.

 

Next I had got some matches of the above four and went from there.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Nobody watches Vivid porn anymore when there are sites like BangBus, willshegag.com and many other wholesome enterprises.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

I don't know what's funnier.

 

The fact that the crux of the problem was identified in the first page of the thread, Michaels not turning heel (NO, Montreal does not count and that was only 6 days before the PPV anyway), before all this stuff about size and age and the state of WWE came into play.

 

OR

 

Iggy, a die-hard HBK fan, calling another wrestler a "fag". Where are you from, AJ Styles' home town?

[Guest Brian]

Iggy, a die-hard HBK fan, calling another wrestler a "fag". Where are you from, AJ Styles' home town?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Game, set, match.

[cabbageboy 0]

I'll watch most any wrestling, by all means PM me or whatever if you've got some rare US stuff (SMW, old school Memphis, ECW 95 stuff, etc) or even some Japanese stuff.

 

The reason I haven't bothered with much puro before is that, well, I just haven't. There's a huge amount of older WCW PPVs I haven't seen, I haven't seen much of ECW's stuff from 1995 or so, haven't seen many of the IYH WWF shows from the mid 90s either. Hell I haven't seen a couple of Summerslams (1995 and 2003). I'd want to fill in the gaps there before bothering with foreign stuff, and even then I'd probably want some recent TNA and ROH stuff before that.

[iggymcfly 0]

Just wait a while, I'll be gone

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And have Iggy and co fill the forum with idiotic crap? I don't think so. You're not leaving.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If it makes you feel better, I haven't watched more than about 15 minutes of Raw total since Summerslam. All the shit on there right now just bores me.

 

And I'm really not even that die-hard of an HBK fan. When he first came back from the back injury, he was extremely entertaining, and when he plays a heel, he's extremely entertaining, but when he's doing his cookie-cutter face shit, he's not anywhere near interesting enough for me to pay attention.

 

I'll probably give Raw another chance when they move to USA, and I'll probably follow Lesnar's return if he every signs with WWE again, but for now, I really don't have any reason to follow wrestling.

 

You know what amazes me the most about this forum? All the same smarks who hate the WWE style and value pure wrestling over promos still continue to support Cena. He may be a terrible worker, his character may be incredibly weak and boring, and he may be mediocre on the mic to begin with, but he's young, damn it. He's 28 years old and he has a shiny belt on, so he must be the future of the company.

 

What people don't understand is that age isn't really all that important. WCW was an anamoly in the history of the wrestling business. The problem was that the vast majority of their main eventers were over 40, with many of them being over 45. You had Flair, Hogan, Savage, and DDP main eventing PPVs for months at a time with every one of them over 45. It got to the point where it just wasn't believable and it started to break kayfabe. It's only because they took it to an absolute extreme that it hurt them.

 

However, when the main eventers of a company are 35-40 and have been established for a few years, that doesn't really hurt the company at all. In fact it helps it. Guys like Shawn Michaels, Triple H, Kurt Angle, and Chris Benoit are still at the stage where they're tremendous assets to the company; not just because they can "make new stars", but because they'll entertain the fans in their own right. As long as they keep their characters fresh, (which HBK was doing when they started the heel turn), there's no reason they shouldn't hold title belts or be focal points on the show. Angle has injury issues, but there's no reason that Michaels and HHH shouldn't be entertaining on the top level for at least another five years.

 

It doesn't matter that Cena will be around until 2020 if no one's going to want to see him by 2006. The fact is that he's incredibly boring, and that was why I suggested that the person who (at least for a month) had the most interesting character in the WWE, and who displays better ring skill than most of the roster should take the title. If Angle wins this Sunday, it will be an improvement over Cena, but not as much of an improvement. For one thing, Angle really is likely to be leaving in the near future, so building him up is less useful than building up HBK who will be able to contribute to the product for years to come. For another, the character hasn't been built up the same way, and Angle just doesn't seem interesting enough right now to carry the show. Yeah, we get that he's angry, and that works all right for one feud, but it's just not deep enough to make people tune in week after week. In the long run, he just looks like a pawn for Bischoff, and Bischoff as the top heel is a recipe for disaster and extreme boredom.

 

Basically, what I've gotten crucified and dragged through the dirt in this topic for is just saying that Raw is pretty much unwatchable if it's centered around Cena, and I wanted someone who entertained me to be the focus of the show. I don't really care if HBK has shiny pants or a tiny bald spot or if he didn't want to job to somebody 10 years ago. The fact is that he had an entertaining character that the WWE could and should have built on, he can still wrestle better than 95% of the roster, and he would have made a much more interesting champion than John Cena.

[Black Lushus 0]

Hiding behind "availibility issues" is a excuse to avoid discovering something beyond the televised promotions or perhaps, fear of not being able to "get it".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How else do you expect certain people around here to keep living in denial? They've got to have some plausible excuse to avoid facing up to what they deep down already know.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

As far as the "availability issues" line, that's not denial, that's the truth...what little bit of the outside stuff I've seen has been good, but since I don't see it enough, it's hard for me to get into and follow since I'm not able to see it all the time like others...hell I didn't start caring about WCW until 1995 when Nitro debuted...now I did go back and watch older WCW stuff that was available and got caught up on it's history, but if I don't have access to Japan/Mexico stuff, i don't have access to it, that's the bottom line...I'm not going to go into detail as to why I don't have access as I don't feel that's necessary, but "availability issues" is the answer, pure and simple...I know a lot of the "outside of North America" product is vastly superior to the WWE these days, hell any idiot could see that, I won't deny that at all, but don't lump folks into one category just because they don't know much aobut life outside of the WWE...

[Jericho2000Mark 0]

As long as they keep their characters fresh, (which HBK was doing when they started the heel turn), there's no reason they shouldn't hold title belts or be focal points on the show. Angle has injury issues, but there's no reason that Michaels and HHH shouldn't be entertaining on the top level for at least another five years.

 

Triple H's character is anything but fresh...even if he takes a six month vacation, he's still been shoved down everyone's throats for the better part of six years.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Just wait a while, I'll be gone

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And have Iggy and co fill the forum with idiotic crap? I don't think so. You're not leaving.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If it makes you feel better, I haven't watched more than about 15 minutes of Raw total since Summerslam. All the shit on there right now just bores me.

 

And I'm really not even that die-hard of an HBK fan. When he first came back from the back injury, he was extremely entertaining, and when he plays a heel, he's extremely entertaining, but when he's doing his cookie-cutter face shit, he's not anywhere near interesting enough for me to pay attention.

 

I'll probably give Raw another chance when they move to USA, and I'll probably follow Lesnar's return if he every signs with WWE again, but for now, I really don't have any reason to follow wrestling.

 

You know what amazes me the most about this forum? All the same smarks who hate the WWE style and value pure wrestling over promos still continue to support Cena. He may be a terrible worker, his character may be incredibly weak and boring, and he may be mediocre on the mic to begin with, but he's young, damn it. He's 28 years old and he has a shiny belt on, so he must be the future of the company.

 

What people don't understand is that age isn't really all that important. WCW was an anamoly in the history of the wrestling business. The problem was that the vast majority of their main eventers were over 40, with many of them being over 45. You had Flair, Hogan, Savage, and DDP main eventing PPVs for months at a time with every one of them over 45. It got to the point where it just wasn't believable and it started to break kayfabe. It's only because they took it to an absolute extreme that it hurt them.

 

However, when the main eventers of a company are 35-40 and have been established for a few years, that doesn't really hurt the company at all. In fact it helps it. Guys like Shawn Michaels, Triple H, Kurt Angle, and Chris Benoit are still at the stage where they're tremendous assets to the company; not just because they can "make new stars", but because they'll entertain the fans in their own right. As long as they keep their characters fresh, (which HBK was doing when they started the heel turn), there's no reason they shouldn't hold title belts or be focal points on the show. Angle has injury issues, but there's no reason that Michaels and HHH shouldn't be entertaining on the top level for at least another five years.

 

It doesn't matter that Cena will be around until 2020 if no one's going to want to see him by 2006. The fact is that he's incredibly boring, and that was why I suggested that the person who (at least for a month) had the most interesting character in the WWE, and who displays better ring skill than most of the roster should take the title. If Angle wins this Sunday, it will be an improvement over Cena, but not as much of an improvement. For one thing, Angle really is likely to be leaving in the near future, so building him up is less useful than building up HBK who will be able to contribute to the product for years to come. For another, the character hasn't been built up the same way, and Angle just doesn't seem interesting enough right now to carry the show. Yeah, we get that he's angry, and that works all right for one feud, but it's just not deep enough to make people tune in week after week. In the long run, he just looks like a pawn for Bischoff, and Bischoff as the top heel is a recipe for disaster and extreme boredom.

 

Basically, what I've gotten crucified and dragged through the dirt in this topic for is just saying that Raw is pretty much unwatchable if it's centered around Cena, and I wanted someone who entertained me to be the focus of the show. I don't really care if HBK has shiny pants or a tiny bald spot or if he didn't want to job to somebody 10 years ago. The fact is that he had an entertaining character that the WWE could and should have built on, he can still wrestle better than 95% of the roster, and he would have made a much more interesting champion than John Cena.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Don't worry, I don't enjoy Cena either nor do I realistically think he is the future. He might have been the future in the past couple of years but I think it's to the point that he has been as horribly botched as Orton was last year with his face turn. Cena's still one of the most over commodities WWE has so yes the belt should be around his waist for the time being til they find someone else better and more over (which no one at this point really is). I see Cena as the Bret Hart style transitional champion. Someone who is meant to be a main player but not necessarily THE MAN.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Hiding behind "availibility issues" is a excuse to avoid discovering something beyond the televised promotions or perhaps, fear of not being able to "get it".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How else do you expect certain people around here to keep living in denial? They've got to have some plausible excuse to avoid facing up to what they deep down already know.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

As far as the "availability issues" line, that's not denial, that's the truth...what little bit of the outside stuff I've seen has been good, but since I don't see it enough, it's hard for me to get into and follow since I'm not able to see it all the time like others...hell I didn't start caring about WCW until 1995 when Nitro debuted...now I did go back and watch older WCW stuff that was available and got caught up on it's history, but if I don't have access to Japan/Mexico stuff, i don't have access to it, that's the bottom line...I'm not going to go into detail as to why I don't have access as I don't feel that's necessary, but "availability issues" is the answer, pure and simple...I know a lot of the "outside of North America" product is vastly superior to the WWE these days, hell any idiot could see that, I won't deny that at all, but don't lump folks into one category just because they don't know much aobut life outside of the WWE...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Between fast internet connections and various file-sharing programs and wrestling DVD's being available at almost ridiculously low prices there is absolutely no excuse for someone to not at least sample something other than WWE. If someone cannot spare less than $10 for a DVD of quality wrestling, or if they are too cheap even for that and they can't spare them time to download a free file-sharing program and download the stuff for free, then they really have no place claiming that any one person is the best wrestler in the world when they have clearly shown they have no desire to expand their horizons beyond one promotion.

[Guest Brian]

Hiding behind "availibility issues" is a excuse to avoid discovering something beyond the televised promotions or perhaps, fear of not being able to "get it".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How else do you expect certain people around here to keep living in denial? They've got to have some plausible excuse to avoid facing up to what they deep down already know.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

As far as the "availability issues" line, that's not denial, that's the truth...what little bit of the outside stuff I've seen has been good, but since I don't see it enough, it's hard for me to get into and follow since I'm not able to see it all the time like others...hell I didn't start caring about WCW until 1995 when Nitro debuted...now I did go back and watch older WCW stuff that was available and got caught up on it's history, but if I don't have access to Japan/Mexico stuff, i don't have access to it, that's the bottom line...I'm not going to go into detail as to why I don't have access as I don't feel that's necessary, but "availability issues" is the answer, pure and simple...I know a lot of the "outside of North America" product is vastly superior to the WWE these days, hell any idiot could see that, I won't deny that at all, but don't lump folks into one category just because they don't know much aobut life outside of the WWE...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Between fast internet connections and various file-sharing programs and wrestling DVD's being available at almost ridiculously low prices there is absolutely no excuse for someone to not at least sample something other than WWE. If someone cannot spare less than $10 for a DVD of quality wrestling, or if they are too cheap even for that and they can't spare them time to download a free file-sharing program and download the stuff for free, then they really have no place claiming that any one person is the best wrestler in the world when they have clearly shown they have no desire to expand their horizons beyond one promotion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

You visit Crazymax often enough, you're going to see DVD deals of 4 for $10 every once and a while. You could grab both J-Cups, When Worlds Collide 1994 (Tenay on commentary), and something else.

[Black Lushus 0]

I know HBK isn't the best in the world, I hope that wasn't what you two thought I was implying...maybe Iggy was, but not me...I don't think he's even the best in the WWE or was at any point in is career (his 3 big years: 95-Bret/Hakushi were better workers, 96-Bret/Austin/Mankind overall were better, 97-Austin/Bret/Owen/Rock were better overall)...but between not currently having a home comp. and other financial obligations which I don't think I need to discuss as well as lack of time between work and family life , no I don't have access to other things...I've admitted that I like the stuff I've seen outside of the WWE...

 

EDIT: I have seen When Worlds Collide...good stuff, but again hard to follow without constant access to its participants...

[Guest JoeJoe]

95-Bret/Hakushi were better workers, 96-Bret/Austin/Mankind overall were better, 97-Austin/Bret/Owen/Rock

Just die. Please.

[nl5xsk1 0]

95-Bret/Hakushi were better workers, 96-Bret/Austin/Mankind overall were better, 97-Austin/Bret/Owen/Rock

Just die. Please.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

^ That's constructive.

 

Lushus > JustJoe

[cabbageboy 0]

I'll let the Hakushi comment go because I at least saw him vs. Bret in person and that match rocked. For the most part though he didn't do a whole lot, so it's tough to say he's better than Shawn. And The Rock circa 1997? Dear God. Green as grass.

 

Cena's wigger rap gimmick makes for a better heel persona than face, it's that simple. I commented on it earlier, Cena has lost most of what made him interesting to begin with. Take a look at him 2 years ago with the old throwback jerseys, the scathing pre match raps...he seemed dangerous, mean spirited, and you wanted to beat the shit out of him (while deep down felt entertained by his schtick).

 

As a face though? He still does the same gay comments about his opponents, and hell even rips off RICK STEINER of all people with the "You want some, come get some" phrase. It also doesn't help when they show a cheesy video of him chilling at a picnic and at home in the oh so street cred filled area of West Newbury, MA. Compare this to say Ron Killings, who has been screwed over in his career, and is much more believable doing the rap gimmick. It's all a matter of real recognizing real.

[Guest JoeJoe]

^ That's constructive. 

 

Lushus > JustJoe

You didn't know? Everybody on this board > JoeJoe. You see, I'm a Shawn Michaels fan. Thats worse than leprosy. But you can take me to be smarter than the one with HBK, HHH and Chyna in his sig, though. Whom all these "I watched an indy/japan match and so I'm smarter than you" tanookis take as the stereotypical HBK mak, and use him in all their arguments to show why all of us are the dumbest losers ever. Yea, that also includes Meltzer, Keller, Alvarez, Scherer and even that scumbag, cancer of the internet Scott Keith.

 

I'll let the Hakushi comment go because I at least saw him vs. Bret in person and that match rocked. For the most part though he didn't do a whole lot, so it's tough to say he's better than Shawn.

Fucking Hakushi being compared to Shawn. Ok. Heres a little tip. Trying letting yourself go. It'll be a real nice feeling.

[Black Lushus 0]

who is JoeJoe and why should I care about his opinion?

[Guest Anticrombie]

His name is JoeJoe, not Joe, not JoeJoeJoe, just JoeJoe.

 

That's an impressive feat in itself.

 

I think the man deserves a round of applause.

[Guest Brian]

EDIT:  I have seen When Worlds Collide...good stuff, but again hard to follow without constant access to its participants...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

http://www.bobbarnett.com/cgi-bin/cshop/ba...aaaclassics.tam

 

Buy the 1993-5 lucha sets.

[nl5xsk1 0]

His name is JoeJoe, not Joe, not JoeJoeJoe, just JoeJoe.

 

That's an impressive feat in itself.

 

I think the man deserves a round of applause.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Jojo?