I got called unAmerican by my Dean,

[Carnival 0]

There was a girl in my school who was a Jehovah's witness and she never stood for the anthem or never participated in the pledge, and nobody ever said anything to her.

[BruiserKC 0]

Didn't the words "under God" only get added to the Pledge of Allegiance in the 50's to help differentiate the States from the Soviet Union?

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This is courtesy of history.vineyard.net/pledge.htm

 

In 1954, Congress after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus, added the words, 'under God,' to the Pledge. The Pledge was now both a patriotic oath and a public prayer.

 

Hopefully that clears that up.

 

Now to our friend gWIL...as a patriotic American myself it disgusts me that people just want to write him off as a spoiled brat or a terrorist or otherwise when he is fully within his rights not to stand for the Pledge. Granted, I don't agree with not standing for the Pledge as it is the respectful thing to do, but he is not required to do so. We've replaced the bleeding-heart liberal state with the conservative "you do what we say" state...I don't like either options to be honest. Either way they try to take our rights away. That being said, there are far worse things to worry about right now than just two words that really have no true meaning in the Pledge as they're said so much they lose that impact.

 

My advice to gWIL...simply go to your dean and express your concern. Advise him you don't want to start trouble but are merely expressing your beliefs. Be EXTREMELY polite and respectful...don't go in like a snot-nosed little punk who knows it all or you won't get anywhere. Show that this is what you truly believe in and you're not doing this to be difficult. Be open to a compromise if necessary, if that means not saying those words or observing a moment of silence. If they are still uncooperative than you can decide what to do from there.

[Nighthawk 0]

Agnosticism is acknowledged ignorance, which is not the same as disbelief.

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Well I don't believe. Disbelief is the refusal OR reluctance to believe. But I'm neither an atheist nor a wiccan.

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You're right, I should have said "disbelieve" instead "doesn't believe". (Actually, I don't know if that's right either. There's something here regarding semantics, I don't know) I don't think agnostics suck, though. Atheists are just agnostics who want to be pricks about it.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Last time I checked, sitting down during the pledge was not a crime. Although it being disrespectful and probably pissing off people, you're certainly allowed to do it.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

Either way they try to take our rights away.

 

It's his right not to stand. It's my right to think he's a spoiled brat for drawing attention to himself about something so fundamentally small.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

Besides, the whole story is bogus anyways. That's what we're not dwelling on ENOUGH here.

[Giuseppe Zangara 0]

Atheists are just agnostics who want to be pricks about it.

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Atheists are agnostics who aren't wishy-washy pussies.

 

Back in high school, my geometry teacher would start ranting about the Japanese taking over our country whenever some of us wouldn't stand for the pledge.

[BruiserKC 0]

Either way they try to take our rights away.

 

It's his right not to stand. It's my right to think he's a spoiled brat for drawing attention to himself about something so fundamentally small.

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So what if it is something that he believes in and he's not doing it just to be a pain in the ass? Granted there are other more important hills to die on but perhaps he feels strongly about it to make a point.

[Nighthawk 0]

Atheists are just agnostics who want to be pricks about it.

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Atheists are agnostics who aren't wishy-washy pussies.

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I maintain my stance.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

Granted there are other more important hills to die on

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

I'm actually conflicted over him being called 'UnAmerican'.

 

He's actually a greater American for refusing to stand. While it was, at best, semi dis-respectful to refuse to stand, at the same time, he did exercise his right as an American.

 

Isn't the whole idea of America based on the right to choose? Look how often the Constitution refers to freedom of expression and what have you.

 

Having said that, don't cry, it's only teenage wasteland for this guy.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

That's a thoroughly stupid argument.

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

Didn't the words "under God" only get added to the Pledge of Allegiance in the 50's to help differentiate the States from the Soviet Union?

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Granted, I don't agree with not standing for the Pledge as it is the respectful thing to do, but he is not required to do so. We've replaced the bleeding-heart liberal state with the conservative "you do what we say" state...I don't like either options to be honest. Either way they try to take our rights away. That being said, there are far worse things to worry about right now than just two words that really have no true meaning in the Pledge as they're said so much they lose that impact.

 

 

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Last time I checked, sitting down during the pledge was not a crime. Although it being disrespectful and probably pissing off people, you're certainly allowed to do it.

 

Two people who more or less agree with me Supremo. Stupid argument, my ass.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

Your argument is that he is being patriotic by being disrespectful. Yes, that's a stupid argument.

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

Your argument is that he is being patriotic by being disrespectful. Yes, that's a stupid argument.

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Fair enough.

 

But most of all, he's clearly within his rights to not stand. His rights as an American.

 

I still don't agree with him not standing.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

No one claims you don't have the right to sit down.

 

There's nothing wrong with protest

 

I acknowledged that he has the right to do what he did,

 

It's his right not to stand.

 

Just for reference.

[Stephen Joseph 0]

blah pussy blah blah fuck blah

 

I thought you purported to be a libertarian?

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I am.

 

I still show respect for my country. I stand for the allegiance, and stood for the pledge.

Mind you, I didnt say it all, but I stood up at least. Lots of dead people deserved at least that.

[Stephen Joseph 0]

blah pussy blah blah fuck blah

 

I thought you purported to be a libertarian?

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I am.

 

I still show respect for my country. I stand for the anthem, and stood for the pledge.

Mind you, I didnt say it all, but I stood up at least. Lots of dead people deserved at least that.

 

Libertarians are NOT against American government. We just like a very small government.

[gWIL 0]

The teacher that sent me to the dean's office apologized and said I could sit if I sat in the back of the room. The ICLU lady seemed disappointed and said that they can't make me sit in the back, but I'm not going to fight that.

[BruiserKC 0]

blah pussy blah blah fuck blah

 

I thought you purported to be a libertarian?

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I am.

 

I still show respect for my country. I stand for the anthem, and stood for the pledge.

Mind you, I didnt say it all, but I stood up at least. Lots of dead people deserved at least that.

 

Libertarians are NOT against American government. We just like a very small government.

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Amen to that. At the same time, he's still within his rights not to stand. It's not as if he's mocking the pledge like Calvin would, "I pledge allegiance to Queen Fragg and her mighty state of Hysteria...." or doing the artificial fart under the armpit during it. And he's not wearing a T-shirt saying "Death to America". It has nothing to do with patriotism, it has to do with exercising your rights. Now if he is being a snot-nosed bastard about it, that's a different story.

 

Whether you agree or disagree, that's on you. But freedom of speech isn't about protecting JUST the speech you love...it's protecting speech you hate too.

[BruiserKC 0]

The teacher that sent me to the dean's office apologized and said I could sit if I sat in the back of the room. The ICLU lady seemed disappointed and said that they can't make me sit in the back, but I'm not going to fight that.

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I think that's a fair compromise. The teacher realizes there are more important things to worry about, like making sure the class clown doesn't put the whoopee cushion on her chair.

[Guest Vitamin X]

The teacher that sent me to the dean's office apologized and said I could sit if I sat in the back of the room. The ICLU lady seemed disappointed and said that they can't make me sit in the back, but I'm not going to fight that.

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You're not wussin out on us now, are you? Fight it!

[Guest Fishyswa]

I love how some of you are calling this guy a pussy and an attention whore for simply exercizing his beliefs. Please tell how showing respect for all those dead soldiers who fought for our rights = religious conformity.

 

I mean if this was way back, and this guy refused to take part in a lynching, would you guys offer the same advice? Suck it up and participate, even if it's not what you believe in? It's the same logic.

 

He doesn't believe this is one nation under god, he shouldn't say it is. It's part of the pledge, so since he has the right to choose, he SHOULD choose not to.

 

Caving in and doing it "just so you don't cause a problem" is the only thing he could of done to deserve being called a pussy.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

Dumb argument.

 

First of all, the pledge harms nobody. Your comparison of pledge = lynching is specious at best and offensive at worst. It's not the same logic at all. He doesn't believe in the pledge for an idiotic reason to begin with; nobody is forcing him to say "under God" or anything at all. The teacher would've never noticed had he simply remained silent during the whole ordeal. However, his point was to make a stand and make it obvious that he was protesting; thus, he sat down and made a scene. That's why I'm calling him a drama queen. I don't have problems with protest in general or disagreeing with something; God knows I've protested things and God knows I don't disagree with quite a damned lot of what the government says. However, sitting down and disavowing the pledge because you don't believe it should have the words "under God" in it -- or, worse, just because you don't believe in God and therefore you shouldn't have to pledge respect to the country that lets you be present in the classroom in the first place -- is teenage immaturity and nancyboyism at its worst.

[BruiserKC 0]

The teacher that sent me to the dean's office apologized and said I could sit if I sat in the back of the room. The ICLU lady seemed disappointed and said that they can't make me sit in the back, but I'm not going to fight that.

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You're not wussin out on us now, are you? Fight it!

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Fair compromise...the teacher is trying to balance his right to protest with her duty to prevent disruptions to her class. Someone obviously felt it was a disruption or he wouldn't have been called to the Dean's office for it. By having him in the back, this solves both problems. That's part of the responsibility to protest...peaceful protests become an issue the moment they become violent or disruptive. Protesting responsibly...BRILLIANT!

 

And Dr. Tyler...referring to your quote..."I don't have problems with protest in general or disagreeing with something; God knows I've protested things and God knows I don't disagree with quite a damned lot of what the government says. "

You obviously have a problem with his protest or you wouldn't make such a spectacle out of it. So you have contradicted yourself. He doesn't believe in God, he shouldn't have to. He's not telling the school that no one should be able to say the Pledge as a result...that would be different.

 

It's obviously going to be a you say Po-ta-toe, I say po-tah-toe...but don't hate...celebrate...his wanting to stand up for what he believes in. One day you might have to make an unpopular stand and it's going to feel pretty damn lonely.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

Thank you, dad!

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Agnosticism is acknowledged ignorance, which is not the same as disbelief.

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Well I don't believe. Disbelief is the refusal OR reluctance to believe. But I'm neither an atheist nor a wiccan.

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You're right, I should have said "disbelieve" instead "doesn't believe". (Actually, I don't know if that's right either. There's something here regarding semantics, I don't know) I don't think agnostics suck, though. Atheists are just agnostics who want to be pricks about it.

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I always thought of atheists as agnostics with balls (Edit: Incandenza already said this). I don't know enough atheists to determine whether they "suck" or not. I do know a lot of theists though...

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Back in high school, my geometry teacher would start ranting about the Japanese taking over our country whenever some of us wouldn't stand for the pledge.

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I bet you wish you'd listened to him now, smart guy.

[Guest cosbywasmurdered]

Saying the Pledge all the time ruins the meaning of it and kids stop thinking about the message behind it.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Dumb argument.

 

First of all, the pledge harms nobody. Your comparison of pledge = lynching is specious at best and offensive at worst. It's not the same logic at all. He doesn't believe in the pledge for an idiotic reason to begin with; nobody is forcing him to say "under God" or anything at all. The teacher would've never noticed had he simply remained silent during the whole ordeal. However, his point was to make a stand and make it obvious that he was protesting; thus, he sat down and made a scene. That's why I'm calling him a drama queen. I don't have problems with protest in general or disagreeing with something; God knows I've protested things and God knows I don't disagree with quite a damned lot of what the government says. However, sitting down and disavowing the pledge because you don't believe it should have the words "under God" in it -- or, worse, just because you don't believe in God and therefore you shouldn't have to pledge respect to the country that lets you be present in the classroom in the first place -- is teenage immaturity and nancyboyism at its worst.

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He doesn't believe the pledge should have the phrase "Under God" in it. This is a very common view and one that I personally share (I personally, though, don't care enough or have the balls to do anything about it). He took a reasonable step to protest it. He did nothing wrong and especially did nothing to warrant all of the names that he's been called here. (Whether it really happened or not is irrelevant)