2005-2006 MLB Offseason thread

[Boon 0]

My B- I read one thing thought another, trying to change the subject before we got into a Sox/Yanks/Al flame war.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Hey, I'd be fine with A's giving White Sox Zito for a free agent though.... well it is Zito so nevermind.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Don't the White Sox have enough pitching?

 

I'm loving the Thome trade though. It actually feels like we have a farm system again!

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

If the team relies on pitching as heavily as the Sox does, we need more pitchers. Zito? No.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

If the team relies on pitching as heavily as the Sox does, we need more pitchers. Zito? No.

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That's certainly a new way of thinking about it. Since the Cardinals rely so heavily on their power hitting first baseman, do they need more first basemen? Or should they look at covering their weaknesses instead? Besides, a large part of the White Sox' pitching success is actually their fielding. We'll see how good a fielder Aaron Rowand is based on what happens to the Phillies' pitching staff this season.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

No question, my concern is the pitchers burning out halfway through the season. That's all.

[Failed Bridge 0]

If they need more first basemen then I know of one who will be available...

 

St. Louis gotta COWBOY UP!

 

anyways, Billy Wagner declined a visit to Boston. I know he's pretty much decided where he's going to be playing but he could have squeezed a bit more cash from the Mets or Phils by just taking a trip here.

 

Mets and Red Sox officials are going to get together at the Winter Meetings to talk about Manny. Omar still wants him even after getting Delgado.

[the pinjockey 0]

I'm loving the Thome trade though.  It actually feels like we have a farm system again!

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I wish I lived closer to Reading. If they put Hamels, Gio, and Haigwood all in AA (a reasonable possability) it could be a fun year watching that rotation.

[Precious Roy 0]

But don't sit here and say that if they don't win it all, the people in the city are going to burn down Fenway. Especially if you're not from here, you don't know what you're talking about, or a Yankee fan. The arrogance in this thread is simply stunning to me. "I know what they're going through, and I take pity on the Red Sox and their fans." Fuck that.

 

Look, I've lived my whole life with half the family Red Sox fans, I have a TON of friends who are Red Sox fans, so don't tell me what I'm not qualified to talk about, I'm fucking qualified.

 

The point of the SI (it was SI, I found it) article was that Red Sox MANAGEMENT is being overtaken by a win now, have to make the playoffs every year mentality, and that that was a major reason behind the rift that formed between Epstein/Luchino. If you don't think that will have ANY effect on the fanbase, you're crazy. Yeah, most Sox fans DID give the team a pass this year, I was far more devestated about the Yankees going out the way they did than any of my Sox fan friends were about the Chicago sweep, because yeah, they're still riding the high of killing the fucking curse of the Bambino. But what happens if the Red Sox keep trying for the quick fix of expensive veterans, if they start trading away young guys who turn into stars elsewhere, and if they're unable to grasp that brass ring despite going all out to do it? I know what Boston fans are like, and I know the mentality in the Boston media, it won't be pretty.

[Failed Bridge 0]

Josh Beckett is an expensive veteran? Seems to me the Red Sox are building for both now and the future. Right now they have two very solid 25 year old power pitchers in Papelbon and Beckett. Papelbon will be making the league minimum while Beckett will end up getting around $4-5mill in arbitration. The team also isn't about to trade Jon Lester unless of course they're offered the world. The Red Sox are going to soon have a rotation (barring injuries) where 3 of their top starters are going to be under 28 years old and very good as well. Not to mention the bullpen will have two young flamethrowers in Craig Hansen and Manny Delcarmen.

 

They don't just build for the now but for the future as well, unlike the Yankees who for the past several years have given up draft picks to sign aging stars and have traded their farm system away for possible quick fixes. I've seen alot of Yankees fans act as if Wang is some super pitching prospect. He's an ok pitcher, but he's not as good as the reactions of most Yank fans would have you believe. Same with Cano.

[Precious Roy 0]

No, Wang is a very intelligent pitcher, but he's not a superstar in the making or anything, and he has a small margin of error as he doesn't overpower with his stuff. I would have no problem trading him to address a need.

 

Cano, kid is talent, if he keeps his head on straight he's going to be one of the best 2B in the league for years to come. I would NOT trade Robinson Cano.

 

As for the Red Sox, fucking christ, what part of this don't people understand? I can't predict the fucking future, but it's a progressive thing. Obviously they're not going to go and trade all their prospects in one day, but make no mistakes that Luchino is calling the shots, and just like with Steinbrenner he'll start to get a little desperate. Epstein was more rational from all reports, and that's the reason he's gone. I'm not saying they ARE the Yankees, I'm not saying it's written in stone that they end up like this, I'm saying be cautious of where this may lead, because I've seen the same thing happen to my team.

 

And obviously Beckett is still young, but they picked up an overpaid Mike Lowell (hey, a former Yankee prospect!) in the deal too. Schilling is old, on the books for a ton of cash. Don't be surprised if they resign Damon to an overpriced long-term deal (Bernie Williams says hi!), something that I believe Epstein would not have done. It's a dangerous way to operate, a vicious cycle, and all I'm saying is be wary. Don't be surprised if you're trading for 40 yr old Jake Peavy and Roy Oswalt some day

 

EDIT* and Beckett is gonna command a huge contract real soon, if Boston doesn't pony up someone else will, that's why the Marlins dumped him in the first place

[mike546 0]

Bernies contract was bad, but I honestly think the production he put up in the first five years of his contract made the contract worthwhile. And thank god we gave him that contract, we almost got Albert Bell.

[Cartman 0]

Beckett's contract demands will depend alot on his performance here. He needs to throw over 200 inning and stay healthy for a whole season while winning 15-20 games in order to start demanding some insane contract.

[mike546 0]

Psh.

 

A pitcher with his talent and age could be inconsistent for a year or two in Boston, and still get a AJ Burnett like contract, probably even more.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

I'm loving the Thome trade though.  It actually feels like we have a farm system again!

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I wish I lived closer to Reading. If they put Hamels, Gio, and Haigwood all in AA (a reasonable possability) it could be a fun year watching that rotation.

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Don't forget about Scott Mathieson, who was the #2 pitching prospect in the organization before the trade. I will likely take a trip or two to Reading myself to watch the AA team play. This year we should get Michael Bourn and Chris Roberson in Scranton, but the rest is thin.

[the pinjockey 0]

How legit do you think Roberson and Bourn are? When I see Roberson's age (turned 26 this year), for his level, I tend to knock him down a whole lot in my mind. And Bourn, when I look at him just looks like a Willy Taveras clone (not exactly someone who I am going to worry about finding a spot for).

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

How legit do you think Roberson and Bourn are?  When I see Roberson's age (turned 26 this year), for his level, I tend to knock him down a whole lot in my mind.  And Bourn, when I look at him just looks like a Willy Taveras clone (not exactly someone who I am going to worry about finding a spot for).

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In Roberson's case, we have a 26 year old who produced a 112/40 K:BB ratio in AA. Considering he's nearly at his peak, that would not look pretty against Major League caliber pitching. He's a 5th outfielder at best, but perhaps an exciting AAA player.

 

Bourn's statistics look disappointing this season, but take into account that he skipped High A ball. Bourn has Willy Taveras type skills, but he brings an extra one to the table: plate discipline. Bourn draws walks and steals bases at a high percentage. If he can develop any kind of extra base power, he's going to be a good one. If he doesn't, he could turn into another Jason Tyner.

[Failed Bridge 0]

NESN said that if the Red Sox can't sign Johnny Damon then they might go along with the proposed offer of Bronson Arroyo and Kevin Youkilis for Torri Hunter. I don't understand completely why the Twins would settle on that but that's what was reported.

[mike546 0]

Of course, the Red Sox aren't turning into the Yankees.

[Failed Bridge 0]

mike is evidently the new AngleSault.

[Cartman 0]

When the Red Sox payroll jumps over $200 Million talk to me, until then shush!

[Boon 0]

Of course, the Red Sox aren't turning into the Yankees.

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Arroyo and Youkilis for Torii Hunter is like the Yankees? Elaborate, plz, b/c when I think of Yankees, I think of overpaying for veterans, not making good trades.

[mike546 0]

So Pavano, Javy, Wright, A-Rod were all veterans? I'm simply stating that the Sox have switched to the Yankee view of win now, and win always.

 

Yankees payroll is in the the mid 1502 right now actually, I think.

[Failed Bridge 0]

you don't seem to understand that the Yankees build around aging veterans and one year wonders and don't have any fiscal restraints. Its not even worth debating anymore as you simply refuse to see it any other way.

 

I will say that I'm happy to see the Red Sox bring in a young power pitcher (even if they had to eat the contract of Mike Lowell to do so) along with still developing a good farm system. I can't wait to see a rotation that's mainly built around Beckett, Papelbon, and Lester.

[Mik 0]

I'm telling you - Mike Lowell is gonna be one of the most popular guys in Fenway next year.

 

He hit ALOT of long fly ball outs to left field that were just lazy harmless popups in the Pro but will be out and over the Green Monster.

 

On top of that, he waited TWO whole days before getting in touch with his minor league hitting coach and getting back to work on his swing.

 

He's gonna be totally rejuvinated next year - I can almost guarantee a Sports Guy Mike Lowell juvination machine column.

[Failed Bridge 0]

I'm excited about his glove since I personally love watching strong pitching and defensive performances. If he does end up getting back to form offensively then that's just extra to me. I like the guy and as I've previously said I feel he's a RH version of Corey Koskie. Only thing bad about him is he makes about $3mill more a year than he probably should.

 

On the other subject though if any team is becoming like the Yankees its the Mets. Last year they signed both Pedro and Beltran. Pedro fits the mold of aging superstar and the Mets might have to part with Beltran in order to get Manny (another aging superstar who's AVG, OBP, and I believe SLG too have all been decling slowly since his big 02 season). On top of all that they just traded away a couple good prospects for an aging Carlos Delgado (who might not even be able to play first base everyday by the end of his contract), are going to be throwing big money to Billy Wagner (34 years old with a history of arm problems), and they're going to be throwing quite a chunk of change towards Bengie Molina or Ramon Hernandez. If anybody is trying to do everything possible to win now then it would be them.

[Failed Bridge 0]

according to Ken Rosenthal; Oakland is close to signing Esteban Loiza to a 3 year $21mill deal. That just doesn't seem like a Billy Beane move to me.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Of course, the Red Sox aren't turning into the Yankees.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Arroyo and Youkilis for Torii Hunter is like the Yankees? Elaborate, plz, b/c when I think of Yankees, I think of overpaying for veterans, not making good trades.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's the idea that your team has the god-given right to acquire a big name for every single hole you have in the ballclub. No center fielder? Let's get Torii Hunter! Need a pitcher? Let's trade for Curt Schilling or Randy Johnson! Need a set-up man? B.J. Ryan! There are such things as role players that other teams settle for. I don't think it's the teams as much as the fantasy baseball mentality of the fans and sports radio.

[Bored 0]

I have to think Zito is going to be traded with signing of Loaiza as you'd think the money would be spent to help the offense.

[the max 0]

So wait, even by giving up major league players (granted that Arroyo may be a better singer than a pitcher and that's not saying much) they're still wrong?

 

The difference is that the Yankees used to throw money at the problem and in the past, burned their farm system for a quick fix, relying on older players and one year wonders. The Red Sox made the Schilling trade, giving up five prospects and taking on Schilling's salary. The theoretical trade for Torrrriiiiii Hunter? Brandon and Youk get sent away (Youk is well liked, I don't know about Brandon) and I'd assume that the Red Sox pick up the contract. The difference is that the Red Sox identify a need and use what they have in their system (be it money or talent) to go about fixing the problem.