Bound For Glory OaO thread

[Guest JesusJuiced]

I blame Coach for Rhino's push.

[Fökai 0]

Man, and I thought the ratings from the "five-star" thread in the WWE forum were ridiculous.

[Guest *KNK*]

I've had a full slate of time to digest last night's show.

 

I'm not really bothered by the short time frame the Joe/Liger match was given but I am bothered about the presence of the first six-man match. Unlike the other six-man that was used to advance what appears to be a significant storyline, that match served zero purpose and ate too much time up. If anything that was better served as the pre-show match (a light appetizer).

 

The X 4way was clearly the MOTN and rightfully show as they went all out there. It was a beautifully crafted dance and usually those falter but not in this instance. This match was aided by the fact none of the 4 men were undeserving of a victory, in my eyes they are all equal (as far as TNA is concerned, obviously Aries is way beyond what he has shown in TNA so far). Sonjay Dutt was somewhat of a surprise at the time mainly because I'm a mark for Aries but looking back, Dutt makes sense with the India promotional tour and because he was a clear cut face. Aries needs to be established as a heel. He has a great heel personality, he just can't help getting over as a face though. It's a "shame" that this match was given away (in theory).

 

Monster's Ball. It served it's purpose precisely. It was a crazy ECW style brawl that included the required "Holy Shit" bump. The spot itself wasn't exactly creative(in fact, it's Jeff's standard spot) but the actual image and situational circumstances gave it the "holy shit" element. Looking back, you really saw how well they put Rhino over in this match. In the pre-show thread a few days ago, I had said I felt Abyss was TNA's "creation"(as opposed to the other 3, who had larger success elsewhere) and would benefit from the "rub" but it's clear, Abyss won't have issues at staying over and being a threat. Rhino needed this win more then anybody else here(especially considering how the show ended). Rhino came off here looking like a legit monster.

 

Ultimate X was a pretty lackluster offering but I wasn't expecting to much from it to begin with. Botches are standard in this business and WWE certainly has it's share of them as well. The finish was cute but only that. It de-meaned the entire match by Williams simply "catching" the X.

 

3LK/Team Canada was the textbook definition of "storyline match". The match wasn't even important. It was the after-match that was important as it set up the storyline change. This is something they could have done on iMPACT.

 

Iron Man. There was a story being told here, something that Angle/Michaels forgot to do in their strokefest eariler this year. This was your standard Daniels/Styles match. Fluid and solid throughout, although it lacked a certain sizzle to really make the match "pop". Good work and storytelling here but it once again proved how the stipulation is flawed and only hurts a match.

 

The Gauntlet. In light of Kevin Nash's removal from the card, they had to essentially rush the booking for this match and I thought for the most part, they delivered.

 

Joe needed to just destory Killings, Sabu and Hoyt setting up for the Abyss/Joe staredown. I might be the first one to do so, but can anyone justify the placement of Hoyt and James? Killings jobbed but he was a former champion, so that makes sense on some level. Williams as the winner of the UX should have taken Hoyt's spot. I liked the booking of James saving Killings, very similar to Moore with Hardy two years ago.

 

Rhino again looked very strong in this match, those who think Joe or Brown should've gone over are nuts. Rudo explained it perfectly why the titleholder isn't significant yet.

 

The finish of the show was very surreal because you knew Rhino was going over but you kept looking for the screw-job. Rhino winning clean was essential.

 

I don't get this whole "Rhino was a heel, he shouldn't have gone over". Fuck the standard black/white lines that we have been taught all these years. Right now it's not about HEEL VS FACE, GOOD VS EVIL. It's a total war for power.

 

There's a multi-tude of directions they can take this. The main event scene is loaded for TNA which is something WWE has serious issues with. It appears ultimately that last night's show was setting the stage for the future.

 

It was a solid show that had it's share of flaws but the work was good for the most part, the booking is tenatively questionable but unlike most promotions, it's not exactly clear and predictable. Sometimes that's a pretty good thing.

[cabbageboy 0]

I agree that Sabu has looked so much better than he did during his waning days in ECW and especially that awful XPW run. Last night he was hitting all of his stuff and was terrific.

 

I'll give my match ratings, and bear in mind I quite enjoy a bloody hardcore brawl.

 

The 4 way opener: ***1/2. Not a great classic exactly but a real fun opener and one of the better matches of the night.

 

Samoa Joe/Liger: **1/2. Pretty much an extended squash and didn't have anything notable about it. Beating Liger in the US doesn't mean that much anyway, hell I remember him jobbing to Juventud during the Russo era after being hit with a bottle of booze.

 

Diamonds in the Rough vs. Siaki, etc: **. I always mark for Shark Boy biting someone's ass, but otherwise I don't see the purpose of even having this match on the show.

 

Monty Brown/Hoyt: *1/2. Mostly a squash. I've never gotten into Brown or seen anything in him to be honest. And I already mentioned Hoyt's gay tat.

 

Team Canada/3 Live Kru: *. Mainly an angle advancement match. The Canadians all suck ass and have zero personality by the way...and their manager D'Amore? That guy is awful.

 

Ultimate X: **1/2. Misfire here. At least the right guy went over, in that Petey is the only one of the Canadians who stands out and has a sweet finish (that we didn't even see). Can't rate it highly for the obvious screwups though, and Bentley drags anything down that he's involved with.

 

AMW/Naturals: **3/4. Fun little tag match and nice to see AMW working in a heel style. I might have been more outraged at the finish if I knew who the Naturals were but I haven't watched TNA much since they've been on the show.

 

Monster's Ball: ****1/4. Loved this. Jeff brought his game and busted out some crazy shit. Sabu was on his game and hit his spots. I only deduct here due to the non use of the tacks and the finish was a bit bizarre and didn't seem like a 3 count.

 

Iron Man: ***3/4. Slight misfire. I run hot and cold on Iron Man matches and would have like to have seen a balls to the walls 30 mins. rather than a slow first half. Finish was excellent however.

 

Gauntlet: **. Just a vehicle for determining the challenger.

 

Rhino/Jarrett: *. Not much of an actual match, but it was surprising.

 

I dunno, maybe I overrated the Monster's Ball but I'm into senseless violence.

[Mole 0]

Where can I download BFG?

[Guest Coffey]

Here's my thoughts. First of all, I didn't get to see the pre-PPV 4-way, which a lot of people are calling the MOTN, so that's disappointing. I knew that Joe was going to go over Liger but I thought we'd get a good match out of it. We didn't get a bad match but we did get a standard, basic wrestling match. It seems like for Joe's big PPV debut to the new Spike TV fans that he should've done more. It seems like for Ligers return to USA soil and his first match in TNA that he should've done more. They just didn't have enough time. Joe didn't even get to hit all of his spots. The commentary was all over the place. Tenay does nothing but shill how the X-Division "isn't about weight limits it's about no limits" and them compares it to AJPW's Jr. division?

 

The Diamonds in the Rough suck. I liked Simon Diamond in ECW but that's because he was funny. In the ring, he's decent but nothing special. Skipper botches way too many spots and Young doesn't stand out. They got a PPV match over the more deserving 4-way from the preshow which I didn't even get to see. Apollo is the shits. His entire moveset is Diamond Cutters. Why is Siaki always the go-to-jobber?

 

3LK/Team Canada was what it was which wasn't much. I hate 3LK's ring intro's. They were old six years ago! The Truth deserves better. Outside of Petey, Team Canada ain't shit. I used to think Roode had some potential but he's went the way of Siaki it would seem.

 

AMW/Naturals wasn't a terrible match but it was forgetable. We all knew AMW were going to retain and that's what happened. They're heels and they did was heels do. Nothing offensive really. I hate the "Death Sentence."

 

Ultimate X proves again that it's a shitty gimmick match that needs to go the way of the dodo. Traci needs to ditch Bentley.

 

I thought the Monster's Ball match was the MOTN but again I didn't see the 4-way pre-PPV match. It wasn't a wrestling clinic by any means. It was kinda sloppy. It did entertain though. A lot of that old ECWish type of a feel. Tables being broke, chairs being thrown, spots being hit, a big bump and a clean finish. That Hardy bump was insane. No way I thought he'd make that.

 

The Ironman was decent enough. Since it was only thirty minutes, I'm glad they did the 0-0 tease until the end. I guess I'm content with AJ retaining. Someone seriously needs to tell Daniels to drop the fucking collars though. This match is one of the reasons why I watched the show, so in that regard, it was a bit of a let down. My expectations were really high and I know that they could've been reached.

 

The Battle Royale, you can tell, was a lot of "on the fly" shit. You can tell that with Nash out of the picture that TNA scrambled last minute to get some shit in. Monty's elimination came off poor. It looked like he just jumped over not got carried over by momentum. Kip's elimination came off poor. It didn't look like he pushed The Truth back in like I think they were supposed to do. Several of the men being in the match didn't make a lot of sense, like AJ after his 30 min. match and Hardy after dying. Joe looked really strong and then got eliminated. Rhyno looked decent in the Monster's Ball but got the win to look strong. Then he won this match to look more strong. Then he won the title to get the huge rub. Winning the title made people forget about the Monster's Ball match. The post match beatdown made people forget about the title switch. The return of Team 3D made people forget about Rhyno. You can just tell that Nash not being there hurt.

 

PPV Highs for me:

• Jeff Hardy's bump
• 3D on Team Canada member
• Traci's jugs
• Monty's Pounce on Hoyt

PPV Lows for me:

• The commentary & crowd
• Obviously the X falling twice in the Ultimate X match
• Joe/Liger getting less than ten minutes
• Lance Hoyt

I don't think the PPV was worth thirty bucks. Of course, I don't think WWE PPV's are worth thirty-five bucks. It wasn't a great show but with a lot of the previous TNA PPV's the bar had been set pretty high. It just sucks that it had to get knocked down with this PPV. Their first PPV after debuting on Spike. Their flagship PPV. A lot went wrong. I doubt this PPV sold people on watching iMPACT! on Saturday, which I don't even think Tenay mentioned.

[Guest Coffey]

The problem with making Rhino champion is that casual marks or WWE fans are going to look at him at him and say, "The guy who got fired from WWE because he wasn't good enough, is now champion of TNA? Their other wrestlers must suck to be beaten by Rhino..."

 

That's it? Does this promotion not know what their core audience is? They're all smart fans who enjoy good wrestling

 

Do I even need to say anything else?

[TheInsane 0]

Samoa Joe vs. Jushin Liger:

 

Nice touch with Joes dance as well as the great reception Liger got. And then they book the match to go 6-7 minutes. That was an awful descision. This was one of the big things on the PPV. They should have scrapped something else and given this at elast 15 minutes. Huge dissapointment in regards of the booking here.

 

The Diamonds In The Rough (Diamond, Primetime, Young) vs. Apolo, Sonny Siaki, and Shark Boy:

 

See, the perfect match to put in the trash can to give Joe vs Liger more time. This didnt do anything for the people involved that couldnt have been done on a Impact instead.

 

Lance Hoyt vs. Monty Brown:

 

I dislike Hoyt. Brown is ok in the ring but I cant stand his stupid "pounceeeeeee" screams. This was ok but nothing more. They could have easily removed this match from the card as well.

 

3 Live Crew vs. Team Canada :

 

I like 3LC more than I should. They are the perfect opening act. Team Canada can be entertaining at times. Nothing special here though. They have to pull the trigger on the Kip James thing soon though. Its been going on for far to long even though it has developed somewhat (with Kip playing 3LC's friend now).

 

Ultimate X match – Petey Williams vs. Chris Sabin vs. Michael Shane:

 

This was ok but nothing special either. I expected more from all men. And then the X fell down. Didnt they learn anything from that first Ultimate X match they had which Michael Shane won? It cant be that hard to secure a X so that it doesnt fall down when you shake the ropes but is still easily taken down if a wrestler actually grabs it. This being said if the X hadnt fallen down the first time I would have loved the ending (if thats was the planned ending) how Williams just stood under the X and begged for it to fall down. Maybe its a violation of the rules of the match but I like it.

 

NWA Tag Title Match – AMW vs. The Naturals:

 

I dislike the scills of The Naturals so Im happy they dont have the belts. This was ok though but nothing special.

 

Monster's Ball – Abyss vs. Sabu vs. Jeff Hardy vs. Rhino:

 

This started on a bad note. No one did sell the fact that they had been locked in total darkness for 24 hours. No one was bothered by the bright lights. Rhino was even out on the pre-show thing for a promo.

However as a regular hardcore match/streetfight this was great accordning to me. The spots were pretty good and even the washed up Sabu and Hardy didnt miss that much at all this time around. Everyone did a great job. I would have made Abyss throw some more power moves through tables though. Good match.

 

30 minute Iron Man Match for the X Title – AJ Styles vs. Chris Daniels©:

 

I liked this as well. Its nice to actually see some psychology put in there. TNA usually have to much "big spot - stand up - big spot - run around - big spot - bounce up on the ropes - big spot" etc. The same desceace that ROH suffers from. So this was a welcome change. I feel that they would have needed to do more in the last 5-10 minutes though to make it great. Now I'll settle for a good match.

 

10 Man Gauntlet – Royal Rumble Style:

 

Ok but nothing special. But then it was planned on short notice.

 

NWA Title Match - Rhino vs. Jeff Jarrett© guest ref Tito Ortiz:

 

I think this played out very well. Rhino sold his injuries well and Jarred did his usual main event match with the guitar shots and run-ins. But what was great was that when Rhino got the pin I felt it actually was believable. It was Rhinos night and he took the chance when he had it. He is a credible world champion to me. Maybe even more so that the lates AJ title-run or the long awaited Raven title-run. This felt more genuine. Rhino overcame 3 matches basically and that amde him look really strong.

 

However the PPV wasnt that good when I look back on it. Especially since it was supposed to be the WrestleMania of TNA. The biggest dissapointment was of course Joe vs Liger (the booking). I was glad that I didnt have to see Nash fight and glad that they put Rhino in his place and that he convincingly ran with the ball. Great with the surprise ending. I sure as hell didnt expect it. My prediction after the gountlet was that Jarret would win via interference and that Team 3-D would save Rhino to end the show on a high note without a title change.

 

Two crowd related things:

 

* It damn annoying when the crowd is split in two in every match (except Rhino vs Jarret). I can understand it for special occations like Joe vs Liger or Cena vs Angle in WWE. It makes for a great change. But every damn match with dueling chants. The audience should care who wins. TNA might want to really create strong heels that the fanbase really hates. It would improve things so much.

 

* Throw out that ringside dance guy. The one who practically wants to dance and bounce to anything. He's annoying so get him off my screen. Send him to the local disco but just dont let him think he's hip and cool when dancing in the front row at wrestling shows.

 

Thats all....

[Guest SavageRulz]

This has nothing to do with the PPV per say, but rather something I've picked up people saying about Iron Man matches in general. It seems that most people don't like when there aren't many falls scored, but I don't see why? I mean, that's one of the reasons that made the HBK/Hart Iron Match so great to me. They even went in to overtime because no one scored a fall. And that was a full hour long Iron Match, and that was absolutely incredible. The match wouldn't have been the same if it ended Hart 3, HBK 4. In reality, we have seen wrestlers who have wrestled regular matches that have went close to or were 30 minutes or more, especially when the wrestlers know each other so well like HBK and Hart did or in this case like Styles and Daniels do. So why just because a match is billed as an "Iron Man" match does there always need to be like five or six falls split between two wrestlers in thirty minutes, which would essentially be nothing more than about six short five minute matches?

[Guest JesusJuiced]

The argument is that it doesn't take advantage of the match type. Even with Bret/Shawn, someone could argue that it could just be a normal match with a 60 minute time limit.

 

I personally prefer more pinfalls but appreciate that they need to mix it up.

[Guest *KNK*]

This has nothing to do with the PPV per say, but rather something I've picked up people saying about Iron Man matches in general. It seems that most people don't like when there aren't many falls scored, but I don't see why? I mean, that's one of the reasons that made the HBK/Hart Iron Match so great to me. They even went in to overtime because no one scored a fall. And that was a full hour long Iron Match, and that was absolutely incredible. The match wouldn't have been the same if it ended Hart 3, HBK 4. In reality, we have seen wrestlers who have wrestled regular matches that have went close to or were 30 minutes or more, especially when the wrestlers know each other so well like HBK and Hart did or in this case like Styles and Daniels do. So why just because a match is billed as an "Iron Man" match does there always need to be like five or six falls split between two wrestlers in thirty minutes, which would essentially be nothing more than about six short five minute matches?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think the only issue here is really the concept of the Iron-Man match. It's flawed in a 30 minute environment if it goes 3-2. The other problem is, if it goes 0-0 to the end, why bother having the stipulation. This match and the WM12 match rendered the stipulation as meaningless because it's really just a cute gimmick match announcing "hey this will be long". Iron-Man matches suffer because of this most of the time. The reason some perfer the multiple fall style of a Iron-Man is because it's usually quicker and less story based and geared more for action.

 

Personally speaking The best Iron-Man ever was Rude/Steamboat because they made the gimmick work to it's favor, whilst this match and the WM12 match didnt exactly abide to the stipulation.

 

I'd rather they just go broadway instead of a pre-determined length of time.

[Guest M. Harry Smilac]

The problem with making Rhino champion is that casual marks or WWE fans are going to look at him at him and say, "The guy who got fired from WWE because he wasn't good enough, is now champion of TNA? Their other wrestlers must suck to be beaten by Rhino..."

 

That's it? Does this promotion not know what their core audience is? They're all smart fans who enjoy good wrestling

 

Do I even need to say anything else?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes...owned!

[qdes 0]

Just finished watching it.

 

I feel so bad for TNA. I really, really wanted this to be a huge succes. Eventhough it was terrible on TNA-scale, it had more memorable moments than an average WWE-PPV.

 

The stupidest decision was not to end the show with the ironman match. Company's number one babyface crying after a mindblowing match is the way to go. Now it felt just stupid when AJ came back for the Gauntlet.

 

Oh well, Genesis is their wrestlemania anyway

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

So who could TNA have that wouldn't seem bush league? It's a retarded premise to say they shouldn't put a title on a WWE reject, because WWE has more money than TNA and has the top talent, and the only recognizable names they have are the WWE cast-offs. When you don't have the top talent, you have to make due somewhere else. Putting it on someone that hasn't been in the WWE at this point is putting it on an unknown, and that's worse. Trying to out-bid the WWE on wrestlers will just kill TNA financially. TNA is not sold on having the top champion, that's not the reason why people watch the show or buy the PPV's, so making this the big stickling point is fucking useless. TNA is not the WWE, they aren't in the same league which means they are playing by different rules. To play the WWE game at this stage would kill them.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

This whole "busch league" argument is predicated on WWE's programming being "major league".

 

Seriously?

 

John Cena?

 

Major League?

 

Really?

 

Is that what we're doing here?

[Stephen Joseph 0]

Guys, I saw B4G last night with another smark and two marks. We had a blast watching it. The acting was pretty bad, laughing at Jarrett, but the Ironman match stole the damn show, and we were cringing during the Monster's Ball.

 

I loved how into the wrestling the crowd was, totally different feel from WWE. Yeah sure, not everything worked, but a solid entertaining effort. I'm sold on genesis.

 

THE VOICE~!

[Guest Coffey]

So who could TNA have that wouldn't seem bush league?  It's a retarded premise to say they shouldn't put a title on a WWE reject...

Here's a question to ponder. If some HUGE name wrestler, like, let's say, Jericho, ever showed up in TNA, would he be type-cast as a "WWE reject" as well? I mean, apparently, it doesn't matter that he worked Japan, ECW, WCW and elsewhere before going to candyland.

 

I'm not seeing how Rhino is a WWE reject. If anything, he's an ECW product. Even though the Dudleyz were in ECW for four years and WWE for six, I still think of them as ECW too. I don't know, it's awkward.

 

A WWE reject, to me, would be someone that came up through WWE and sucked. Someone like Nathan Jones but even he worked WWA, etc. Someone like Maven, maybe?

[Guest Fishyswa]

To me Jarret is the prototypical WWE reject. He went from totally burried in the WWE, to a completely uncredible run as champ in WCW, to another totally uncredible run in TNA. Any fan coming back is gonna remember him losing to China or being on top of dying WCW.

 

It applies to WCW too I guess but it's dead, and Attitude Era Reject or Monday Night Wars Reject don't have the same ring.

[RedJed 0]

I agree with ya about Rhino, he is much more a ECW product as is the Duds. Gotta give credit to TNA in that they havent even suggested the idea of having guys like Test and Albert brought in, as that reeks of WWE rejects right there.

 

I think if Jericho came in, much like the buzz on Matt Hardy WAS, he would get over huge and in general, the fans wouldnt think of him as just a WWE reject. Kind of in the same line as Raven in a sense.

 

I wonder if TNA has ever offered any feelers to Goldberg? Not that I think he would be the end all be all to put the company on a higher plateau but I'd be damned interested to see a Monte Brown v. Goldberg program for the title.

[Rendclaw 0]

Unless they are intentionally trying to be like WCW, they had better not bring in Goldberg. I like the guy, but that's not being innovative. Besides, they have a better version of the unstoppable machine in Joe.

 

Bringing in Jericho would not have been innovative either, but it would have been better for the company. I would have loved to see it. But honestly folks, did you really think he was going to go to TNA? Chris isn't at the point in his life where would do so, and the E threw money at him to make sure he didn't. He is well past the point in his career where he is wrestling for enjoyment of the sport, he is doing it for the money. And by an order of magnitude, the E has more money to give him than TNA does.

 

I think that when Shelton's contract is close to ending, the same thing is going to happen for him, even though I would LOVE to see him there. Ditto anyone else with talent that even might be thinking about making the switch.

 

That is what the E does: kills your passion for the business and makes you miserable, but at least you're well-paid and miserable.