Guest Coffey Report post Posted November 2, 2005 Well, Vengeance '05 was certainly better. Batista/HHH HiaC & HBK/Angle. It also had another random Cena 3-way. Backlash '04 is better too. It had the Orton/Foley "hardcore" (falls count anywhere) match and the WMXX HBK/HHH/Benoit rematch. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest GoJoe Report post Posted November 2, 2005 Unforgiven 2002, No Way Out 2003, Backlash 2004, Vengeance 2005... there's quite a few. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianChick 0 Report post Posted November 2, 2005 Canadian Chick, I wouldn't mind RVD and Shelton doing something, maybe feuding over the IC title. Besides, Shelton has been totally buried for some reason...the dude jobbed to Matt Striker on Heat. I guess my point was that RVD will be the most over guy on Raw when he gets back. There really isn't anyone else that is getting consistent reactions. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ah, by number one face, I thought you meant RVD would be pushed as the number one face. My bad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrVenkman PhD 0 Report post Posted November 2, 2005 Unforgiven 2002, No Way Out 2003, Backlash 2004, Vengeance 2005... there's quite a few. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The first two are Co-brand PPVs but I agree with Backlash 2004 / Vengeance 2005 priase. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest slmon Report post Posted November 2, 2005 "Finally, unless they're building to a Survivor Series rematch, it made zero sense for mankind to beat Carlito. CCC has lost just about every damn match he's been in on Raw. Literally." Right. Why have the match at all? Why work with people like Foley and Flair at all if you don't get a win out of it? Let Conway (say) work with Foley, if they don't have enough confidence in Carlito's ring work. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dubq 0 Report post Posted November 2, 2005 RE: Kane & Big Show - I thought Kane had a "broken back" ??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hyperchord24 0 Report post Posted November 2, 2005 I don't think Carlito is drawing a strong amount of heel heat from the live crowds, but now, having essentially lost the feud, I doubt if there is anyone left who cares. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheex Incarnate 0 Report post Posted November 2, 2005 I'm having trouble with the 24/7 access. How exactly am I supposed to get this thing up and running? I have the link to the page and everything, but when it comes to entering the password it says its invalid. -Cheex Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jebus 0 Report post Posted November 2, 2005 Carlito has gotten the Christian treatment... Heel over due to tremendous charisma...on the cusp of main event status...jobs to everyone...heat diminishes...role reduced to host of weekly segment Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
10 Pounds 0 Report post Posted November 2, 2005 Wow. Big thanks to ChrisMWaters for the 24/7 code. That thing is a goldmine. War Games, Flair vs Perfect, classic moments like the Arn Anderson retirement speech and the return of the horseman......Man, it's gonna be hard to find the time to see all the good stuff. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisMWaters 0 Report post Posted November 2, 2005 Wow. Big thanks to ChrisMWaters for the 24/7 code. That thing is a goldmine. War Games, Flair vs Perfect, classic moments like the Arn Anderson retirement speech and the return of the horseman......Man, it's gonna be hard to find the time to see all the good stuff. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> See, that's why they give you a whole month for it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Downhome 0 Report post Posted November 3, 2005 Just as I said I would do, I started the download earlier today, it finished in a hurry, and I just finished watching the PPV. Here are my thoughts: * Matt Hardy & Rey Mysterio b Chris Masters & Gene Snitsky; Fans Choices: Mysterio, Layfield, Christian, Hardy, Holly This match was way better than I thought it would be, but of course most of that was because of Hardy and Mysterio. It was solid throughout, except for that one Mysterio/Master botch, which was pretty funny. I've always liked Mysterio, but especially here lately it seems like just about every match he's a part of is a lot better just because he's a part of it. If he doesn't at least get a serious title shot pretty soon, then it will be a shame. I think he deserves it, and I think it just might happen. * Eugene & Jimmy Snuka beat Rob Conway & Tyson Tomko; Fans Choices: Jim Duggan, Kamala, Jimmy Snuka Why in the hell would the fans pick Snuka when he can't even hardly get around? Sure he can do his finisher, but it just about takes him forever to steady himself enough so he doesn't kill himself. It should have been Hacksaw in there (I voted for him), since he can actually get around just as good as he always could. This was one pointless match, and hardly deserved to be on a RAW, much less on a PPV. * Mick Foley (as Mankind) defeated Carlito Cool; Fans Choices: Cactus Jack, Mankind, Dude Love Ok, how about this? Fuck you Mick Foley. Yeah, that's pretty simple I believe. You are a fat piece of shit who only shows up for the fat paycheck, to take on a piece of shit like Carlito, and not only that but you don't even put forth any effort for this match. If you look up "phoning it in", it should have the description of this horrible match. Could you look like you couldn't care less any more than you did here? Not only all of this, but we got the bastardized version of what was ORIGINALLY one of, if the the, greatest characters ever. Just fuck off and don't come back ever again if this is all you have to offer. You are worthless in my eyes now, and from the looks of your performances here lately you even believe the same. * Kane & Big Show beat Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch; Fans Choices: The two who weren't voted for the main event Yeah, way to totally make your new tag team look total jobbers in what was their first really high profile match. It was entertaining, I did enjoy it, but it wasn't what should have happened. Either way, maybe TBS/Kane as champs will at least make for interesting TV. * Batista defeated The Coach w/Goldust & Big Van Vader; Fans Choices: Verbal Debate, Arm Wrestling, Street Fight I don't even want to comment on this mess. * Trish Stratus won a Fulfill Your Fantasy Diva Battle Royal; Fans Choices: Cheerleader, Lingerie, Leather & Lace Once again, no comment. * Ric Flair defeated Triple H in a Steel Cage Match; Fans Choices: No-DQ Match, Submissions, Steel Cage God bless Ric (NOT RICK YOU FUCKTARD FANS!!!) Flair, seriously. If anyone doubted his ability, if anyone doubted that he could still go in a high profile match, then all you need to do is take a look at this one. This was classic Flair from start to finish, and I am not ashamed to say that this is now one of my favorite matches from the past few years. Not only have I enjoyed the overall storyline surrounding the match, but the match itself told a story greater than just about any of the shit the "professional writers" have put together. This one was a classic in my book. * John Cena beat Kurt Angle and Shawn Michaels -WWE title-; Fans Choices: Shawn Michaels, The Big Show & Kane You know, the match itself wasn't that bad, I actually enjoyed it, but they screwed up on the entire ending. Tonight was the night for WWE to once again set Kurt Angle on track to become the number one man in the entire industry, where he rightfully belongs, and they dropped the ball big time. The sooner they abort John Cena (or at least his over hyped push), the better. The fans in the building, the so called marks, were just about booing the moron out of the building, and you could just feel that it was Kurt Angle's night to go all the way, just about everyone wanted to see it happen. I've been hearing that Kurt is very pissed off about his place in the company as of late, and how he thinks that he should be on top, so it wouldn't surprise me to see him go the way of Jericho and Christian if WWE doesn't straighten the way up and realize what they need to do. Abort Cena, and give the ball to Kurt Angle. If it wasn't for the Flair/HHH match, this would have been two thumbs WAY down, but with it on the card, well, I still have to say two thumbs down, but not as harshly. That Flair/HHH match though, wow. Had Kurt Angle went over in the main event, I think the Flair/HHH match and the Kurt win would have evened out the PPV as a whole, but that didn't happen. I will say one more thing. If I had actually ordered the PPV, the Flair/HHH match would have kept me from feeling totally cheated. As a Flair fan, a life long Flair fan, that was a really special match to me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Downhome 0 Report post Posted November 3, 2005 A few more things: I think it's just about safe to say that Shelton's WWE career is over as of last night. He's been pissed on for a while now, but that match on Heat looked like the climax to me. Boy, how things can change in the span of a single year. Then, we have Joey Styles. As I stated earlier in the thread, he needs to be brought in full time. He can make just about anything seem important, and he actually knows what he's talking about. Now yes, there were a few times where it was obvious that he hasn't been following WWE from show to show, but he'll get over that in the span of a single week or so. He really did a hell of a job for the HHH/Flair match, especially pointing out HHH's pervious quad injury. If last night was an audition, I'd say he earned himself a job. On a side note, that situation with Edge was just sour. I'm sure plenty of fans voted Hardy just to see him get in there with Edge, and I bet that pissed off a ton of fans. That was a rotten thing to do, I couldn't believe that. Yes I know he's hurt, but they could have covered that up for a quick match if you ask me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Art Sandusky 0 Report post Posted November 3, 2005 I went straight for the Survivor Series 1993 main event myself. All the stuff before the actual match is worth a click alone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Mandarin 0 Report post Posted November 3, 2005 * Mick Foley (as Mankind) defeated Carlito Cool; Fans Choices: Cactus Jack, Mankind, Dude Love Ok, how about this? Fuck you Mick Foley. Yeah, that's pretty simple I believe. You are a fat piece of shit who only shows up for the fat paycheck, to take on a piece of shit like Carlito, and not only that but you don't even put forth any effort for this match. If you look up "phoning it in", it should have the description of this horrible match. Could you look like you couldn't care less any more than you did here? Not only all of this, but we got the bastardized version of what was ORIGINALLY one of, if the the, greatest characters ever. Just fuck off and don't come back ever again if this is all you have to offer. You are worthless in my eyes now, and from the looks of your performances here lately you even believe the same. Not as bad as I thought. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hunter's Torn Quad 0 Report post Posted November 3, 2005 I thought the cage match was house show level stuff but with PPV level bloodshed. And that finish was a blowoff finish, with the babyface making the big comeback, beating the heel into a bloody mess, leaving him laying and casually walking out of the cage to win. It'll be hard to make a rematch make sense after a finish like that. And did anyone else notice that when Shawn was getting pinned by the FU he was trying to kick out but as soon as the ref counted to three Shawn suddenly lost all ability to move? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Downhome 0 Report post Posted November 3, 2005 And that finish was a blowoff finish, with the babyface making the big comeback, beating the heel into a bloody mess, leaving him laying and casually walking out of the cage to win. It'll be hard to make a rematch make sense after a finish like that. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That was everything but a blow off match. If anything, it was just the start of the feud. This match was all about Flair wanting to achieve two things. One, he wanted to prove HHH wrong about his career being over and not being able to bring it anymore, and two, he wanted to get revenge on HHH after the beating he received a few weeks ago. This match wasn't about Flair wanting to score the pin fall or the submission, hell it wasn't even about HHH totally caring if he won or not, it was all about proving he could still bring it, and it was all about seeking revenge. He beat the hell out of HHH, kicked his ass with a chair, and just left his worthless bleeding ass in the middle of the ring for all to see. HHH can now say that Flair didn't really beat him, he can call him a coward for leaving the cage instead of staying to try to pin him or whatever. It all makes perfect sense to me. I just worry about what the total end result of this feud will be. I think HHH will cost Flair the IC title to someone, and they'll have a big match at SS that will not be for a title or anything. Either way, it should be solid once again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hunter's Torn Quad 0 Report post Posted November 3, 2005 The babyface is meant to get his big revenge over the heel at the end of the feud, not the beginning. Once we've seen the babyface leave the heel laying and proven wrong, why should we want to see him face the heel again? The face already proved he was right. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lil' Bitch 0 Report post Posted November 3, 2005 Hey Downhome, I'm sure if Cactus Jack was picked, the match might have been better in your eyes, but seriously I don't think Foley could have really done anything with Carlito, the man can't wrestle for squat and I don't blame Mick for not losing to him and making himself out to be a total jobber. Carlito has gotten the Christian treatment... Heel over due to tremendous charisma...on the cusp of main event status...jobs to everyone...heat diminishes...role reduced to host of weekly segment Yeah, except the difference is Christian's great and Carlito sucks ass. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kahran Ramsus 0 Report post Posted November 3, 2005 The babyface is meant to get his big revenge over the heel at the end of the feud, not the beginning. Once we've seen the babyface leave the heel laying and proven wrong, why should we want to see him face the heel again? The face already proved he was right. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Personally, I don't think Flair should be beating HHH to begin with, especially with him expected to face Cena eventually. Your point is valid though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hunter's Torn Quad 0 Report post Posted November 3, 2005 The babyface is meant to get his big revenge over the heel at the end of the feud, not the beginning. Once we've seen the babyface leave the heel laying and proven wrong, why should we want to see him face the heel again? The face already proved he was right. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Personally, I don't think Flair should be beating HHH to begin with, especially with him expected to face Cena eventually. Your point is valid though. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Flair shouldn't get a really decisive win over Hunter, because of where each man is going, but at the same time Flair shouldn't get beaten decisively either, because he's about the only babyface the people will get behind. Someone of Flair's age isn't someone to build around, but there is no other babyface that the fans both truly care about and really don't want to boo. That in itself is a sad display of how bad things are on the babyface side. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JMA Report post Posted November 3, 2005 On a side note, that situation with Edge was just sour. I'm sure plenty of fans voted Hardy just to see him get in there with Edge, and I bet that pissed off a ton of fans. That was a rotten thing to do, I couldn't believe that. Yes I know he's hurt, but they could have covered that up for a quick match if you ask me. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Agreed. That was a TERRIBLE move on WWE's part. Besides the fact that Edge was the one talking most of the shit about SmackDown! he also has major history with Hardy. This was their second chance to have a non-shitty ending to the Hardy/Edge feud and they blew it. Masters and Snitsky mean nothing to me, especially not in this brand feud. There's always the chance that Edge may be more seriously injured than we thought, though. If that's the case I can understand their decision to remove him. Otherwise it was stupid as hell. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hunter's Torn Quad 0 Report post Posted November 3, 2005 Whether Edge had to be removed or not, there are better ways to do it than have him act like he doesn't care about what is meant to be one of the top feuds in the company. Edge is one of the top guys on Raw, but if he doesn't care enough about Smackdown to fight them, why should we care enough to pay to see anyone from Raw fight the Smackdown guys? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisMWaters 0 Report post Posted November 3, 2005 Whether Edge had to be removed or not, there are better ways to do it than have him act like he doesn't care about what is meant to be one of the top feuds in the company. Edge is one of the top guys on Raw, but if he doesn't care enough about Smackdown to fight them, why should we care enough to pay to see anyone from Raw fight the Smackdown guys? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> To be fair, he also said he didn't care about Raw. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lil' Bitch 0 Report post Posted November 3, 2005 But Edge is an asshole, only caring for himself when people obviously want to see him get his ass handed to him by Hardy since I'm sure fans want to see the RAW Vs. Smackdown feud intensify. Its just a clever way for fans to hate him even more since he's not a RAW team player. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Downhome 0 Report post Posted November 3, 2005 Ummm, if Edge doesn't care about SD or RAW, then why in the hell was he a part of this entire feud to start with? Why did he invade SD with Masters? Talk about bullshit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hunter's Torn Quad 0 Report post Posted November 3, 2005 Whether Edge had to be removed or not, there are better ways to do it than have him act like he doesn't care about what is meant to be one of the top feuds in the company. Edge is one of the top guys on Raw, but if he doesn't care enough about Smackdown to fight them, why should we care enough to pay to see anyone from Raw fight the Smackdown guys? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> To be fair, he also said he didn't care about Raw. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Which is even worse. If one of the top guys doesn't care about his brand, why should we? But Edge is an asshole, only caring for himself when people obviously want to see him get his ass handed to him by Hardy since I'm sure fans want to see the RAW Vs. Smackdown feud intensify. Its just a clever way for fans to hate him even more since he's not a RAW team player. It's still stupid for a top guy, even a heel, to go out and say he doesn't enough about the other side in a feud he is in to fight them. They could have at least not have Edge talk about how he doesn't care enough about Smackdown to fight their wrestlers. People paid money to see the top Raw guys fight the top Smackdown guys. How do they feel knowing that one of the guys they paid to see fight cares so little about the match that they paid to see that he just blows it off like he doesn't care? If I paid to see TT and saw that, I'd be more mad at WWE for treating the PPV and fans like that, not the wrestler. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kahran Ramsus 0 Report post Posted November 3, 2005 What is going to happen to the Survivor Series RAW vs. Smackdown match now? Because without Edge, it seems like it is going to be HBK and four scrubs against the Smackdown team. RAW had enough of a talent deficit to begin with. They probably have to find a way to insert Show & Kane in the match just to make it even plausible that the RAW side could stand a chance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Downhome 0 Report post Posted November 3, 2005 Who all were the RAW guys fighting the SD guys on RAW this week? I think I saw Cade and Murdock in there, but do you really want them in the match? With all of this talk abotu Vince putting down Bishoff, maybe they'll seriously give us a War Games match, RAW vs. SD, at SS. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hunter's Torn Quad 0 Report post Posted November 3, 2005 Who all were the RAW guys fighting the SD guys on RAW this week? I think I saw Cade and Murdock in there, but do you really want them in the match? With all of this talk abotu Vince putting down Bishoff, maybe they'll seriously give us a War Games match, RAW vs. SD, at SS. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Apart from Edge and Masters, it wasn't anybody who would be a top Raw guy. And we'll never get War Games in WWE. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
