John Cena

[Da Maintenance Man 0]

Cena is NOT terrible. There's a difference between average & terrible. Tyson Tomko is terrible. Snitsky is terrible. Carlito is terrible. I think we can all agree that Cena is the better worker out of all 3 of those guys.

 

 

This is like comparing liquid shit from solid shit. In the end, it's all still shit.

 

Cena isn't as bad as the people you mentioned, but he still isn't even average. I mean, Trish Stratus does better worked punches than Cena for God's sake. Cena is over enough to be in the ME, however his in ring is not main event level IMO.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Actually, I'm going to have to agree with this. My more markish friends even notice how terrible he does his punching. Honestly, his in ring work needs well...work. The funny thing is that rumour around Mania that had Cena working with Steamboat to improve and it seems that was a complete lie or Cena doesn't learn too well or quick.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

With how scripted & controlled WWE is (look at that other thread with the scan of the Raw script posted in it, even the promos are scripted WORD FROM WORD) there are some guys on the roster that, you really wonder what they're truly capable of if they weren't working WWE style matches. Whenever it came to defending Cena I would pimp the HELL out of his debut match against Angle on Smackdown (I REALLY need to find that match somewhere). And it's not just that single match either. Cena's in-ring skills as a whole were better back when he started out on Smackdown than they are now. As time went on & he began to get more over & over it's like WWE told him "Don't worry so much about all the technical crap, just go out there, let the guy kick your ass for a bit, come back, hit your trademark spots & finish the match".

 

What I'm getting at is that there's practically NO plausible reason why Cena's pretty good ring skills from '02-'03 completely dissappeared. Are you all saying he FORGOT how to do all the shit he was doing back then? I highly doubt it. It's just that as he climbed higher & higher up the card and became more popular and started to develop a few crowd pleasing spots, WWE told him to tone it down because it wasn't NEEDED for him to get all technical. He's working WWE main event style matches right now.

 

If/when they finally turn Cena heel again, it'll be interesting to see if his workrate will go back up (due to not being able to rely on his usual spots). I'm betting that it will.

[sluggo 0]

I think the only reason he'll stay face til the summer is that his movie is coming out in the Spring. Same reason he won the belt @ Mania and he's still a face today is because Vince wanted to push his album.

 

I mean look at this Cena http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4...30318021&q=cena

 

then look at todays

[CanadianChick 0]

Cena is actually a lot, lot worse.  This guy did have a major build to the title and is in theory supposed to be ultra popular.  I'm not really that shocked that fans are turning on him.  People thought I was nuts a few months ago when I made the offhand statement "If Cena wrestled RVD that Van Dam would get more of the crowd."  Anyone think that sounds insane now?

 

I knew Cena was in big trouble as champ at SS when the crowd seemed to be more for Jericho than him.  This is a totally heatless, jobbed out Jericho we're talking about here...a guy who hadn't even done anything to get a title shot.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

1) Cena would still have the girls on his side against Rob. Never underestimate the girls. That's how the Hardys were popular.

 

2) Calling Jericho heatless is nice for your point, but isn't true. At all. He was jobbed out, but you're acting like it was a total shock that Jericho was cheered. Don't be ridiculous. Jericho always has at least a portion of the crowd behind him.

[Guest Leelee]

Cena doesn't have the same girl support that the Hardyzzz have though.

[CanadianChick 0]

But he also has the poseurs.

[Promoter 0]

Da Maintenance Man, good post man. I think that really hits the nail on the head for my other thread. I never got to see that script thing though. I thought sometime last year the wwe was letting the wrestlers be more lose and less robotic following word for word? I clearly remember the rumour that they told Mordecai not to wrestle and just punch and kick.

[King Cucaracha 0]

What I'm getting at is that there's practically NO plausible reason why Cena's pretty good ring skills from '02-'03 completely dissappeared. Are you all saying he FORGOT how to do all the shit he was doing back then?

 

No. He's clearly been phoning it in for months though. Back in '02-'03, he was on the cusp of a main event run and getting his first taste of decent exposure towards the top of the card. He HAD to impress. Now, he's in the comfort zone.

 

I'm not running him down over it and I'm not saying he's incapable of being valuable to the company. Cena knows he can get away with less than 100%. Doesn't mean he purposely goes out and gives less, but the pressure isn't there. I'm not saying he's the first either. Once the big guys hit the top spot and get mega over, it's only natural some people get complacent. Rock's been there. Austin's been there. WHAT? Austin's been there. WHAT? Jericho to a lesser extent. The tired routine, stuck in limbo, new catchphrases every week. Usually, it takes a character turn to reignite them. Hopefully, it comes sooner rather than later. Because right now, Cena seems to be going through the motions.

 

Hell, right now, the Diesel comparison could be considered pretty flattering.

[Guest Trecko]

No, they need to get the title off Cena at Survivor Series.  It outta be apparent by this point that he desperately needs to drop the title and probably turn heel soon after. 

 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't get this logic. If he loses the title, and then goes heel, most likely either complaining that the fans turned on him, or sucking up to Bischoff, he'll look like a bitch. To me, it's so much easier for him to just acknowledge the boo's, and treat it as nothin more than hate. Don't do it all on one night, but build it slowly. Have him come out on Monday, make reference to it. Question it. He's supposed to represent the hip hop culture, dig more into it and the shit they do/say. You're already bitin off what other rappers do, get some Jay-Z in your character (I say him simply because of a specific song he has that comes to mind). Ask why the fans are booing. Say that it's hate cause he's on top. Get cocky. Get arrogant. Because you're still the champ, and didn't change the way you acted, but for whatever reason the people did. And then move on from there. And if the boos keep up, great, and if not, get on the crowd for being dumb sheep or some shit until you're over enough again, but don't start kissin the fans' ass, but don't insult em too much either. But losing the title AND going heel, to me, is the WORST case scenario. It'll hurt him much more than anything else.

 

God I can just SEE a arrogant ass smile, askin the crowd if they mad on some Cam'ron type shit. It'd be so eeeeasy to me...smh.....

[Guest Leelee]

I agree with that scenario, but he's gonna have to lose the title before turning heel.

 

Unless HHH turns face, and that's even worse.

[Guest FromBeyondTheGrave]

I think he and Batista have been champs for over 6 months and neither one have dropped the belt.

You "think"? What does that even mean?

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

No, they need to get the title off Cena at Survivor Series.  It outta be apparent by this point that he desperately needs to drop the title and probably turn heel soon after. 

 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't get this logic. If he loses the title, and then goes heel, most likely either complaining that the fans turned on him, or sucking up to Bischoff, he'll look like a bitch. To me, it's so much easier for him to just acknowledge the boo's, and treat it as nothin more than hate. Don't do it all on one night, but build it slowly. Have him come out on Monday, make reference to it. Question it. He's supposed to represent the hip hop culture, dig more into it and the shit they do/say. You're already bitin off what other rappers do, get some Jay-Z in your character (I say him simply because of a specific song he has that comes to mind). Ask why the fans are booing. Say that it's hate cause he's on top. Get cocky. Get arrogant. Because you're still the champ, and didn't change the way you acted, but for whatever reason the people did. And then move on from there. And if the boos keep up, great, and if not, get on the crowd for being dumb sheep or some shit until you're over enough again, but don't start kissin the fans' ass, but don't insult em too much either. But losing the title AND going heel, to me, is the WORST case scenario. It'll hurt him much more than anything else.

 

God I can just SEE a arrogant ass smile, askin the crowd if they mad on some Cam'ron type shit. It'd be so eeeeasy to me...smh.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd agree with this. If/when he turns heel, I'd prefer he keep the belt. The problem is that there aren't any young faces to build up to ME level to finally be the guy to take him down. Shelton would be a possibility if they haven't spent the last 1/2 year burying him. RVD could be another possibility, but political forces will prevent him from doing it. Angle or HBK shouldn't get the rub from taking his belt, as it really wouldn't help anyone involved.

[iggymcfly 0]

Basically, the reason I used the Diesel comparison it that they both have title reigns that never end even though neither one of them is/was very over. I know Batista's the more natural comparison for Diesel, but he's on the B-show on Friday nights and no one really cares what happens there. Smackdown's so corny that it almost seems beyond saving.

 

Really what I was wondering here is why the hell they won't just end Cena's reign already. He's had the title for seven months now, which is longer than any reign in the last nine years except for HHH's very longest reign.

 

Somebody actually said that they couldn't end his reign now because it would look like a failure. That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. He has the second longest reign in the last nine years, he's not going to look like a failure because his reign was too short. If anything, he's going to look like a failure because the crowd's bored to death with him.

 

I'm not saying he shouldn't have gotten the title or anything like that. I'm just saying that enough is enough. When a face that's getting consistently booed has a longer reign than any reign by Stone Cold, The Rock, or Brock Lesnar, you know something's wrong.

[Guest Trecko]

No, they need to get the title off Cena at Survivor Series.  It outta be apparent by this point that he desperately needs to drop the title and probably turn heel soon after. 

 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't get this logic. If he loses the title, and then goes heel, most likely either complaining that the fans turned on him, or sucking up to Bischoff, he'll look like a bitch. To me, it's so much easier for him to just acknowledge the boo's, and treat it as nothin more than hate. Don't do it all on one night, but build it slowly. Have him come out on Monday, make reference to it. Question it. He's supposed to represent the hip hop culture, dig more into it and the shit they do/say. You're already bitin off what other rappers do, get some Jay-Z in your character (I say him simply because of a specific song he has that comes to mind). Ask why the fans are booing. Say that it's hate cause he's on top. Get cocky. Get arrogant. Because you're still the champ, and didn't change the way you acted, but for whatever reason the people did. And then move on from there. And if the boos keep up, great, and if not, get on the crowd for being dumb sheep or some shit until you're over enough again, but don't start kissin the fans' ass, but don't insult em too much either. But losing the title AND going heel, to me, is the WORST case scenario. It'll hurt him much more than anything else.

 

God I can just SEE a arrogant ass smile, askin the crowd if they mad on some Cam'ron type shit. It'd be so eeeeasy to me...smh.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd agree with this. If/when he turns heel, I'd prefer he keep the belt. The problem is that there aren't any young faces to build up to ME level to finally be the guy to take him down. Shelton would be a possibility if they haven't spent the last 1/2 year burying him. RVD could be another possibility, but political forces will prevent him from doing it. Angle or HBK shouldn't get the rub from taking his belt, as it really wouldn't help anyone involved.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yeah, that is a flaw in my scenario, now thinking about it. I've been all for the double switch with him and Angle, though, just to keep him occupied into Survivor Series, before going into a short fued with HBK while trying to build SOMEONE as a legit face within that time, but I doubt it...hmm. But even if he does lose it and they turn him heel...they'd still not have another legit face in the title hunt other than HBK....hmm. Oh well.

 

*starts following TNA to avoid this discussion altogether*

[Guest JMA]

1) Cena would still have the girls on his side against Rob. Never underestimate the girls. That's how the Hardys were popular..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't forget E and C.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Cena got neutered when they turned him face and I knew this shit was going to happen, it was only a matter of time before it came back to bite WWE in the ass.

Just compare him to the Rock, back in 2002, The Rock got stale (His short schedule is also to blame) so the fans turned on him. When he went back to being a heel, BAM! The fans loved him again, you know why? Because he was ENTERTAINING! Guess what? So was Cena when he was a heel, but not now. So all they have to do is make him entertaining again and the fans will be back on his side. So even if they do turn make him a heel, the fans will go for it thus making him a face again ala The Rock.

 

Another reason for the fans cheering against him is because they know how much better of a wrestler Kurt Angle and has busted his ass working a full-time schedule FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR since coming back from his latest injury as the guy obviously deserves at leats just one more run. If Cena is going to drop the title, Kurt is the guy to do it.

 

Oh and I got news for you guys who want Cena to stop making gay jokes, The Rock made gay jokes too.

 

Diesel was a much better champion than Cena.

 

I hope you're kidding because that's one of the stupidest fucking posts I've ever read.

[Fökai 0]

For a guy that will get ratings, get buyrates, draw ridiculous merchandise figures, is huge overseas and is one of the few workers who consistently draws a reaction for anything that has to do with him, there seems to be an absolute bias against the guy.

 

Comparing him to Diesel? Pardon me? The reactions aren't incredible because he's being given scripted promos that are ludicrous, in addition to being given workers that are billed as heat-proof regardless of their affiliation with Angle and Michaels. Now only that, but he's in a dead-end rehashed program that no wants to see in Cena/Bischoff, a program that is being billed above his feud with Angle.

[alfdogg 0]

He's had the title for seven months now, which is longer than any reign in the last nine years except for HHH's very longest reign.

...except for JBL's, which was RIGHT BEFORE CENA'S.

[Downhome 0]

Cena is making WWE a lot of money with the merchandise.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

There is no doubting that, but he'd be making WWE a ton of bucks even if he wasn't the champion. There are others who make WWE a ton of money with merchandise, but they aren't champs. That is NOT an excuse to keep him as your world champion.

 

I've never seen Cena as a world champ type of guy, and I doubt I ever will. I've been saying this for a long time now, but mark my words, the day is coming when the only fans he'll have left will be the "Jeff Hardy types", and I'm sure you know what I mean by that.

[cabbageboy 0]

Let me explain myself in regards to Cena turning heel. Look, he's already getting booed, but really there is no storyline reason for him to turn heel on anyone. He's got the title, he's still doing just fine in the storyline. There has to be a reason for a heel turn, and mainly the reason is that he has to lose the title and feel like the fans have turned on him. Then bam, he goes out and cuts a bitter interview, goes full blown heel, and he'll be a lot fresher.

 

I think some of it is also fan frustration over how stale the top of the card is. People overall don't really want a guy holding the title forever anymore. Even a title change or two during a feud would be good.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Double turn with Kurt and Cena?

[Downhome 0]

Turning Cena heel would be so simple, and in my eyes it should have been done on this past PPV.

 

More and more fans love Angle, more and more hate Cena. Have Angle win the title which makes the fans very happy, have Cena "show his true colors" by attacking Angle after the match which gives the fans even that much more of a reason to hate the guy, and tada, one of the easiest heel turns/face turns ever.

 

If they don't do it sooner than later, it'll get to the point where Cena will be a guy that the fans wont even love to hate. He'll just be a guy that they want the fuck off of their TV.

[Guest *KNK*]

Here is the problem with turning Angle

 

This happened already, he was a heel for awhile and the crowd starting cheering for him, the pops and chants got louder in support for him. So they turn him and he's a complete bore as a face and can't stay over and they have to turn him again.

[Downhome 0]

If they turn Angle face, they need him to remain basicly the same hardcore character that we've seen lately, much like how they pretty much allowed Austin to remain the same after they first turned him face.

 

Kurt Angle could be huge, even as a face, but I doubt WWE will ever allow that.

[Guest Hass of Pain]

Comparing Cena to Diesel is absolutely ridiculous.

 

John Cena is a weird case. I can't remember anyone splitting the crowd like Cena does. When he is wrestling, the 18+ male demographic seems to hate him, and everyone else loves the guy like they haven't loved anyone since The Rock. He's moving a ton of merchandise and the type of guy WWE is very smart to build around.

 

The problem is, WWE is stringing the poor guy out to dry. His strength is cutting exciting promos in the middle of the ring, his weakness is long main event singles matches. So without faill. almost every week WWE puts the poor guy on live television in some unnecessarily long singles match and gives him no promo time in front of the live crowd. On top of that, they are making the exact same mistake with him they made with Randy Orton. You just don't put who you want to be your strongest babyface in long singles matches with either Ric Flair or Shawn Michaels, because the 18+ males in the crowd are going to make whoever it is look awful because they cheer for Michaels and Flair no matter what.

 

Cena should be in no main event singles matches on free television, hang on to the title and promo or work tag main events each week, and then get his practice in on house shows. WWE is murdering the poor guy right now putting him in these stupid positions.

[Guest *KNK*]

Comparing Cena to Diesel is absolutely ridiculous.

 

John Cena is a weird case. I can't remember anyone splitting the crowd like Cena does. When he is wrestling, the 18+ male demographic seems to hate him, and everyone else loves the guy like they haven't loved anyone since The Rock. He's moving a ton of merchandise and the type of guy WWE is very smart to build around.

 

Doesn't that sound a little familar to someone else we all know? That one guy who was in a tag team and then he left and won the IC title and did crazy stuff off a ladder and danced around? I can't remember his name.

[alfdogg 0]

Jeff Hardy?

[Guest Hass of Pain]

Doesn't that sound a little familar to someone else we all know? That one guy who was in a tag team and then he left and won the IC title and did crazy stuff off a ladder and danced around? I can't remember his name.

 

Not even close. Michaels never had what seemed like 50% of the crowd wearing his gear and popping for him like he was the second coming while the other half was booing him, and he wasn't over with kids with the way Cena is either.

 

Michaels split the crowd some, but it was more because he was a babyface in a male driven business wearing short shorts and dancing around like a ten year old girl.

[naiwf 0]

Turning Cena heel would be so simple, and in my eyes it should have been done on this past PPV.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Why waste your biggest angle/moment on RAW since Cena got moved there in week 1 of the draft lottery on a throwaway PPV on a Tuesday no less? Let it simmer for a couple more weeks and then do it at Survivor Series where it will play to at least twice the audience. Post SurSer is the build up to the Rumble, and that's where a newly turned heel Cena can be a factor since he'd obviously want the title back, and Bischoff and Angle could effectively just block him from getting a rematch. It would be fuzzy logic that Cena would need to win the Rumble to get his shot at regaining the title, but it would at least give him a purpose without hotshotting an Angle turn, or uniting Cena with the Bisch.

[Guest JMA]

I've always agreed with the people saying WWE neutered Cena's character. The comparison to Michaels' character change after he turned babyface is a good one.

 

I think WWE is just afraid of having an edgy babyface because they think it might hurt the reaction towards him. Of course, this flies in the face of everything about the Attitude era, especially concerning Austin and Rock, but WWE doesn't seem to want to remember that. Part of this has to do with WWE no longer being counter-culture any more. There was a very real sense of rebellion back in the Attitude era. The wrestlers was fighting against both WCW and Vince McMahon himself. The reason why Austin was so popular wasn't because he was some blue-collar hero--it was because he rebelled against people that tried to control him, which is the way many teenagers and adults feel. He was a power fantasy given form. With DX it was more of an adolesent power fantasy and it worked well too. With Cena and Bischoff everything feels so manufactured.

 

If they want to save Cena what they need to do first is take Bischoff out of the equation. They could have Bischoff give up and take himself out of Cena's affairs. This frees up Cena and Angle to have a feud on their own without any outside influences. From there, all you have to do is have Angle beat Cena (maybe in a Street Fight) clean for the title and have Cena brutally attack him afterwards. But for this to fully work Cena would have to seriously look like a bloodthirsty maniac, perhaps bloodying Angle with a steel chain. The next night Cena says that he lost the title because the fans made him "soft" (which is true, in a way) and says that he's going to get his edge back. After being presented with such a serious threat, Angle would have to remain serious and become a no-nonsense technical wrestler. One that could beat any opponent at any time (kind of like a Bret Hart). He wouldn't be goofy or comical in the least. WWE could even stop the "You Suck" chants by piping in "Angle" chants (it worked quite well for Goldberg). After a year or more of being a heel (and hopefully improving his in-ring skills) the fans will be ready to cheer Cena again, and they can turn him back.

 

It seems like the REALLY successful main event faces were either invincible supermen (Hogan) or were characters that you could relate to (Austin). They seem to be trying to do both with Cena and it's obviously not working.

[iggymcfly 0]

John Cena's not worthy to lick Shawn Michaels' balls. If they hadn't neutered HBK after Summerslam, I would have watched every single Raw just hoping he'd get the title back. As it is, I couldn't give a fuck less about anything they've done.

 

HBK was a badass heel. He was basically telling the 18+ male crowd to go fuck themselves, Cena's basically saying "no really, I'm cool, I promise. I'm like, a cool rapper and stuff. Please cheer for me. Pretty please with sugar on top?"