2005 Wrestler of the Year

[Guest GoJoe]

At this point, I'd call AJ, TNA's WOTY.

 

If I was to look back at my favourite TNA matches of the year, AJ would be in about seven of them. He hasn't had a bad PPV match this year and when you consider his worst were the Ultimate X challenge and his title win over Jarrett, that speaks volumes about the level he's working at.

 

Chris Daniels is up there too but he's had too many good-but-not-great matches in the midcard with the likes of Shocker and Petey Williams to be considered over AJ.

[Kardo 0]

Easy, Mistico for me. Amazing draw, great matches. What more could you ask for?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This guy to make top 10.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Can't forget

 

 

and

 

[pochorenella 0]

I'd say Shawn Michaels is WWE Wrestler of the Year BY FAR. By my count, so far he has:

 

- The MOTY 2005 (WM21 vs Kurt)

- TV MOTY (Gold Rush Tourney vs Benjamin)

- One of the best Feuds of the Year (vs Hogan.) It certainly made a huge buzz and was the main reason why SSlam 2005 was the most successful in years.

- Heel promo of the Year (RAW in Montreal, perhaps one of the best in a LONG time)

- Another ****+ match (Vengeance vs Angle again)

- At least ***+ at Taboo Tuesday and RAW Homecoming.

- Good-to-very good matches with Edge (Rumble and RAW Street Fight specially)

- One of the truly Markout Moments of the year, teaming with Marty Jannetty to reunite The Rockers against La Resistance.

- Quite a few High-profile RAW main events, including teaming with Hogan and a terrific, hot 8-man tag match the day after Unforgiven, which the crowd was crazy for.

 

You can call me an HBK mark (which I am) but, with the exception of winning any sort of championship, Shawn Michaels has done it all this year, and I listed all my reasons why he's Wrestler of the Year for 2005.

[World's Worst Man 0]

Benoit's had a handful of good matches this year. Joe's had a handful of very good-great matches. Benoit producing 80-100 passable matches is irrelevant, as passable matches are a dime a dozen. If a large quantity of passable matches did matter, then a lot of NJPW guys should get consideration too. Since they produce so much TV, there are bound to be guys who are up there.

 

Talking about how many good matches a guy is in is misleading anyway. It's all about how they perform. One wrestler can look better in a *** match than another does in a **** match. Even the same wrestler. For example, Kurt Angle looked better in a **1/2 match (vs. Flair) than he did in a **3/4 match (HBK Vengeance).

 

Another thing is that "potential" shouldn't matter when discussing wrestler of the year. Benoit has the potential to put on great matches. But that's irrelevant, because he hasn't done it lately. Same with Liger, same with a lot of guys. Even Samoa Joe has the potential to do more than he has this year. The only thing that should matter is what they've actually done.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

Angle Vs. Flair was embarassing to watch, IMO. Simply because Flair was exhausted, falling off the top rope, and he's like 55 years old, wrestling a guy who'd legit kill him in under 30 seconds.

[Guest Real F'n Show]

hmm...

 

1. Chris Benoit

2. Kenta Kobashi

3. Eddie Guerrero

4. Samoa Joe

5. Bryan Danielson

 

Just missing the cut would be Liger and Mysterio...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Where do you come up with Benoit? This has been a down year even for Benoit. Hasn't had much quality this year, in fact, hasn't touched anything near ****.

 

Samoa Joe is the clear cut winner for another excellent year of quality, including a ***** for the second year in a row. An amazing feat for a NA worker.

 

Joe is hands down the NA wrestler of the year and he's made a pretty strong case for best wrestler in the world for 2005.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Valid points, the list was in no order, Joe or Kobashi would probably be at the top if that were the case.

 

I guess Benoit would fit more into a best in the world category, than WOTY.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Good because otherwise, I'd be concerned. Honestly, it's scary to imagine this but Benoit, if I sat down and looked it over, may not even make my top 15 list and that I'd actually place Flair above Benoit, just because Flair had more standout matches(not neccesarily "better" but stand out). A really ho-hum year for the Crippler.

 

Danielson, I don't think should be on that list mainly because he missed a good chunk of time (4 months). I should mention, I've yet to see GBHIV with Gibson. From what I hear, it's a legit ****+ match, as I would expect from them. Once I see that and the reportedly strong work with...Strong, Danielson should quickly jump into my list and even snake his way into the top 3.

 

I'm really concerned Jamie Gibson's tremendous first half will disappear by his relative disapearence this last 1/2 of the year. Same goes for Punk as both are stuck in ovw...where it's not exactly a beacon for quality work in the ring.

 

He had a really good year and needs to get the proper respect for it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, I completely agree. For some reason I put my choices down thinking of Best Wrestlers in the World, rather than Wrestler of the Year, 2005.

 

For Wrestlers of the Year. I'd probably go:

1. Samoa Joe

2. Kenta Kobashi

3. Mistico

4. KENTA

5. Shawn Michaels

[Dangerous A 0]

Since the thread has degenerated into a sort of top 10 Wrestlers of the Year, here goes mine...

 

 

1- Samoa Joa

2- Kenta Kobashi

3- Mistico

4- Austin Aries

5- Shawn Michaels

6- KENTA

7- CM Punk

8- Chris Daniels

9- Ultimo Guerrero

10- Bryan Danielson/Kurt Angle (tie)

[Guest SavageRulz]

It's tough for me because a lot of the guys you've mentioned I just don't connect with as a fan, despite seeing that they've had great matches. My list would probably look more like....

 

1. Samoa Joe

2. Kenta Kobashi

3. Shawn Michaels

4. Monty Brown

5. Christopher Daniels

6. KENTA

7. Kurt Angle

8. Abyss

9. CM Punk

10. AMW

 

Now, there's a lot in my list that probably doesn't speak for itself, unlike your top 10. People will wanna know what the hell Monty Brown's doing in there, and so high. Well, for me it's all about the all round package, not just what goes on in the ring. Consistently throughout the course of this year Monty has proved over and over and over that he is a class act and he's probably still the only person in TNA's entire roster with any sort of shot at becoming a draw. His matches, when booked right, have always been entertaining. Are they 30 minute ironman classics? Nope, and they don't need to be either.

 

Abyss I don't think you can overlook. When people used to call him the best big man in wrestling I'd scoff and think it was giving him too much credit. I genuinely believe it to be the case now though. The matches he's put on this past year, and the things he's put his body through, I have to have him in there.

 

The other questionable one is AMW. Firstly, I see them as one entity. Much like the Steiners at their best, or the Road Warriors. They are a commodity as a whole unit. They put on the best tag team matches all year long. I've not seen them wrestle a bad match, I've seriously not. Even some of the supposedly less inspiring ones, and ones that people didn't have such high hopes for, AMW have just carried and worked, and been superb.

[Guest OSIcon]

Benoit hasn't really done that much this year to be considered wrestler of the year or even WWE wrestler of the year. The list of memorable matches he was in was pretty subjective, as I didn't even remember who he wrestled at WM 21 until I looked it up. Counting the Royal Rumble, six man #1 contedner match, elimination chamber match, and a six man ladder match in Benoit's favor doesn't mean much when he wasn't the one stand out in either match and when wrestlers have gad much better singles and tax performances this year. The Batista RAW match was good but I would be hard pressed to name a Samoa Joe match from this year that wasn't as good or better than that.

 

Eddie and Rey have both had much better years in the WWE than Benoit. Their feud is easily feud of the year in the WWE in terms of quality matches and might be feud of the year from any promotion. Their series of matches have been downplayed by Meltzer (and others) in large part because they haven't been what one might expect from those two. Given their Halloween Havoc '97 match and their reputations, one might expect a really fast paced, lots of big spots match from those two. Instead they smart match after smart match with lots of storytelling, good selling, and good wrestling. The 2/3 Falls Smackdown match is easily the best WWE match I've seen all year. Their Judgement Day and Great American Bash matches were both a lot of fun. The Summerslam ladder match was also really good. Again, it didn't have any really crazy moves but had a lot of drama, good story, and they basically worked their normal match around a ladder.

 

Away from another, Rey had a really good match with JBL that was JBL's best match away from Eddie. If you need a further case for Eddie, watch the Batista title match. Meltzer and others like to make mention of Michaels' putting on all of these 'one man shows' but really, that match is the definition of one guy carrying the whole load. Batista can barely bend for any of Eddie's offense, yet somehow Eddie keeps working and makes the match work. Most of all, unlike the Michaels "one man show" matches, Eddie didn't wrestle in a "look at what I am doing way" that Michaels did against Hogan, which in the end made his opponent (Batista) look better.

 

Continuing on match quality alone, Joe of course had a really great year. The main argument in this thread for Benoit seems to be his consitency. Nobody was more consistent in 2005 than Joe. He never really had a bad match in ROH all year or even a match I would consider less than "good". He also had some really great matches like against Jay Lethal in May, against Jimmy Rave in August, the two Kobashi matches, ect. Joe's my front runner at this point.

 

Two other US Indy guys that deserve mention our Bryan Danielson and CM Punk. Danielson is only rivaled by Joe when it comes to consitency. He once again had one of Austin Aries' best matches in their May title match. The feud with Homicide was fun and solid even if it did fail to produce that one "great" match. The Gibson match was outstanding and one of the best I've seen this year. He also worked a ton of different styles all with great results. The Jimmy Rave feud and Punk's ROH title run give him a strong case. He MADE Rave in their series of matches and their cage match was the best cage match I've seen in recent memory. His title run was incredible with great match after great match with lots of excellent heel work.

 

Kobashi will probably get some consideration. The Kensuke Sasaki match was fun and a big draw. The Joe match was excellent and the tag the next night was real good too. He's been consistantly very good in big matches. I like Mistico and think he has a case, but he hasn't had enough really good matches to put him over the top. A lot of credit goes to his different opponents (specifically Averno and Ultimo Guerrero) for his best match this year.

[Tim Cooke 0]

Joe is pretty much a run away for the best wrestler in the world. Look at 2005 through the Meltzer calendar and it is amazing.

 

12/4 vs. CM Punk (possibly the best of their series)

12/26 vs. Austin Aries (Aries has only looked this good against Danielson)

2/26 vs. Austin Aries (where as Aries does a nice job on 12/26, this is clearly Joe wielding

5/7 vs. Jay Lethal (Lethal hadn't looked as good prior nor has he looked as good since)

6/11 vs. Necro Butcher (Brawl-Brawl-Brawl-Brawl)

6/18 vs. Colt Cabana (Under-fucking-rated)

7/16 vs. Jimmy Rave (get rid of the first two minutes and it is excellent)

8/13 with Lethal v Ki/Homicide (Amazing ROH tag)

10/1 vs. Kobashi

10/2 w Ki v Kobashi/Homicide

 

Only stinker was 6/4 against Gibson.

 

Eddy and Rey is my feud of the year. I don't know what people were expecting and disappointed with. Fucking Dominic is golden in this.

 

Outside of Danielson, Joe, Rey, and Eddy, I don't know who I would place at 5th place for WOTY.

[Sass 0]

Samoa Joe or Dr.Wagner Jr.

[King Cucaracha 0]

1- Samoa Joe

2- Kenta Kobashi

3- Christopher Daniels

4- Austin Aries

5- Shawn Michaels

6- Kurt Angle

7- CM Punk

8- AJ Styles

9- Homicide/Bryan Danielson (Tie)

10- Jimmy Rave

 

With James Gibson, Spanky, Roddy Strong and Colt Cabana on the 'almost' list and KENTA and Mistico slottable wherever for people who actually have/do see them regularly enough to rate them.

[Guest *KNK*]

You guys are doing a grave injustice to Jamie Gibson. He had a supremely better year then Shawn, Styles, Danielson, Monty Brown(what kind of an idiot honestly puts Brown within distance of a wrestler of the year list).

[Tim Cooke 0]

Being a huge fan of Gibson since his WCWSN debut in October 1999, he disappointed me in ROH for the most part. He was solid and I like that, but didn't have the stand out matches that Joe, Danielson were producing. His best match was against Danielson on 9/17. He certainly stacked up numerous "good to great" matches but not a lot of MOTYC's.

 

Tim

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I'm not here to say Chris Benoit should be WOTY in 2005. Cause he hasn't really put in a blow-away match that could make a strong case for him, let alone a couple of blow-away matches.

 

A few things, though for perspective sakes...

 

To say that Ric Flair should be higher on the list is absolutely fucking absurd. Flair has put out so many big fucking piles of garbage that the WWE calls wrestling matches this year, to even consider him being above Benoit is a goddamn insult.

 

Chris Benoit made Batista in a wrestling match. Though the HHH feud is what got everyones attention, the match with Benoit -which was designed to get Batista over-, was the exact moment the crowd decided "This guy is awesome". It was probably one of, if not thee, best carry job of the year. Because it wasn't a very noticable carry job. Batista looked legit awesome because of Benoit.

 

I've seen Benoit wrestle live twice, and I've seen Joe wrestle live once. Joe sucked. I was very, very, disappointed. Yes, it was against Raven. But Benoit would have had a much better match (Benoit HAS had much better matches). Joe was working so.... not stiff.... and that without the stiffness, the match was nothing. The two Benoit matches may have been the best he put out this year, which was one against Jericho on RAW earlier this year and one against Randy Orton. In terms of live performance, Benoit smoked Joe somethin fierce. And it wasn't even a one time thing, cause in Joes match against Lyger, the guy making that match was Lyger. Joe didn't really do much in that high profile match to warrant being Wrestler of the Year. Now, I'm giving Joe -and you guys- the benefit of the doubt here (I don't have a WOTY for 2005, simply because what I've seen in wrestling in 2005 has sucked while MMA is putting out its best year ever). But from another perspective, in my eyes, Joe has not been very consistent at all.

[Tim Cooke 0]

"To say that Ric Flair should be higher on the list is absolutely fucking absurd. Flair has put out so many big fucking piles of garbage that the WWE calls wrestling matches this year, to even consider him being above Benoit is a goddamn insult."

 

Agreed 110%.

 

"Chris Benoit made Batista in a wrestling match. Though the HHH feud is what got everyones attention, the match with Benoit -which was designed to get Batista over-, was the exact moment the crowd decided "This guy is awesome". It was probably one of, if not thee, best carry job of the year. Because it wasn't a very noticable carry job. Batista looked legit awesome because of Benoit."

 

Benoit tends to do that for people. He has made Kurt Angle look way better than he is. In WCW, he made the fucking Cat Ernest Miller look good.

 

On the other side, I have seen Joe, Eddy, Rey, and Danielson make people look fantastic this year.

 

Joe and Danielson have each made Austin Aries look like World Champion material in six matches (three from each of them). Joe made a very eager to learn but terribly green Jay Lethal look like a guy who could be a viable champion. Eddy, working with a mediocre Batista, did a hell of a job at No Mercy. He didn't bump around like a lunatic (ala Michaels) or have to resort to a gimmick to get the match over. I haven't seen the Benoit/Batista match since it aired, but if it is better than Eddy's carry job, I would surprised. And then you have Rey Jr., who is pound for pound the best at the WWE style. He works realistic but not stiff (at least against guys who couldn't take it). He has lots of crowd pleasing spots that are very different from any other guys 'crowd pleasing' spots on the roster.

 

I was/still kind of am a huge Benoit fan. But the WWE style has tinkered with everything that was great about him (varied move set, stiff, smart wrestler) where as Eddy and Rey have fully used it to their advantage.

 

"I've seen Benoit wrestle live twice, and I've seen Joe wrestle live once. Joe sucked. I was very, very, disappointed. Yes, it was against Raven. But Benoit would have had a much better match (Benoit HAS had much better matches). Joe was working so.... not stiff.... and that without the stiffness, the match was nothing. The two Benoit matches may have been the best he put out this year, which was one against Jericho on RAW earlier this year and one against Randy Orton. In terms of live performance, Benoit smoked Joe somethin fierce. And it wasn't even a one time thing, cause in Joes match against Lyger, the guy making that match was Lyger. Joe didn't really do much in that high profile match to warrant being Wrestler of the Year. Now, I'm giving Joe -and you guys- the benefit of the doubt here (I don't have a WOTY for 2005, simply because what I've seen in wrestling in 2005 has sucked while MMA is putting out its best year ever). But from another perspective, in my eyes, Joe has not been very consistent at all."

 

You name one Joe match from 2005, a 7 minute match from TNA. I know you acknowledged your prospective above, but you last statement is still ridiculous.

 

1 match makes him not consistent? Or is it the one live experience and the Liger match from TNA that makes him not consistent?

 

Tim

[Guest GoJoe]

Even if Liger was leading Joe in their match (which I don't agree with), it was a 20 minute bout cut down to seven while it was still in progress. Under those cirumstances, I don't think Joe's consistency in the ring should be questioned.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I'm saying that I've seen 2 Joe matches from this year and they both had poor Joe performances in them. 2 for 2 does show consistency, but not in a good sense. This is not to say that Joe isn't the WOTY or that Joe hasn't had the great matches that everyone has been talking about, I'm just saying that the guy had 2 bad performances from my view, and I'll also add that the reasons for the bad performances (working "light" on his opponents) were the same for both. I'm just providing another POV in this Joe is God, Joe never has a bad match, talk. I thought Joe was God too, then I saw him vs. Raven *shudders*.

 

Rey has the worst punches I have ever seen. Ever. At the Smackdown tapings I was at in the Summer, I almost had to turn away they were so bad. I like Rey, I agree with most of your points on him, but the last word I would use to describe Rey would be "realistic".

 

Benoit has sorta changed his style around this year to be more mat based, at least from what I've seen of him. I love how he's incorporated the knees into his repetoire, and both against Jericho and Orton, Benoit showed some of the smartest, restrained, mat work I've seen in some time. I think the problem with Benoit is is that he's not really working with guys often enough who are willing to go where he wants to go.

[The Mandarin 0]

Besides the Batista match, Benoit vs. Edge and Benoit vs. Christian were very, very good Benoit TV matches from this past spring. Better than anything on Raw this fall, actually.

 

Seriously, try and watch them if possible.

 

My top five this year (no major elaboration because I can't and don't wish to defend my own opinions which may have been influenced by others)-

 

1) Eddie Guerrero-- mainly because I've seen pretty much all of his body of work this year

2) Samoa Joe

3) Chris Benoit (I don't remember any of his work since August however)

4) Chris Jericho (delivered solid work in pretty much throughout the year, is it wrong that I think 2004 and 2005 were my favourite years to watch Jericho wrestle?)

5) Austin Aries or CM Punk or something-- although I've yet to watch the Punk vs. ROH storyline

 

Flair was exhausted, falling off the top rope, and he's like 55 years old, wrestling a guy who'd legit kill him in under 30 seconds.

 

I've mentioned this a few times before. Flair falls off the top rope because Angle won't let him position himself properly for whatever reason. Angle insisted on his damn belly-to-belly suplex and I guess Flair didn't get the memo. Thus the Flair Flop with added Danger.

 

I can't argue with the rest of it, though.

[Guest *KNK*]

I should make clear what I meant by Flair having a "better year" then Chris Benoit. I was simply noting Flair has more of memorable year, not neccesarily that he had a better year of work. I was more pointing out how flat Benoit was in 2005 compared to past years. Everything else rudo said, in regards to Benoit was spot on.

[King Cucaracha 0]

And I was being completely sarcastic when I mentioned Flair, for the record.

[Guest OSIcon]

The Liger vs. Joe match definitely wasn't "bad".

 

The first thought I had after watching it was to compare it to the Benoit/Liger match from Thunder in 1999. Both matches were given roughly the same time. Both could have also been so much better in a different setting. Yet, each match was good for what they were. Joe had about seven minutes to wrestle Liger in the opener of a "big" PPV. They used that time as you would expect: each guy got in their offense and then they went to the finish to put Joe over strong (or at least that was the idea). It was a decent seven minute match used to open a PPV where one participant wasn't even a regular in the promotion. I'd hardly give a match like that the "high profile" label.

 

I can imagine the Raven match was bad. Then again Raven is REALLY shitty. The criteria for WOTY doesn't involve never having a bad match. I could find bad matches from ANY of the wrestlers under consideration for Wrestler of the Year. Benoit has had plenty too. If you wrestle enough and wrestle against enough different opponents, you are going to have a bad match. Pointing out a bad match against Raven and a decent match against Liger is not enough to prove that Joe is not wrestler of the year.

 

Benoit has been consistent, but I don't believe he's had nearly enough good "big" matches this year than Joe. I would also make the argument that if you averaged out of all of Joe and Benoit's matches from 2005, that on average, Joe's matches would be better.

[Dangerous A 0]

Joe had about seven minutes to wrestle Liger in the opener of a "big" PPV

 

 

Just an FYI, Joe and Liger were supposed to go 20 minutes, but were given the "go home" signal 7 minutes in. Word was that was when the committee agreed to do the gauntlet match and needed to cut time from Liger/Joe. That was dumb to me. They flew Liger in and ended up getting 7 minutes out of him. They should have let Joe/Liger fly and cut the stupid Diamonds in the Rough 6 man tag.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I never said Joe vs. Lyger was bad, I just said it was a bad performance by Joe. Everything that was memorable to me in that match was because of Lyger, while Joe -it seemed- was just trying to not stiff Lyger.

 

Joe vs. Raven was another bad _Joe Performance_. In both cases it seemed like Joe didn't want to get the other guy angry, so he didn't go stiff on them. However, in not going stiff, Joe wrestled very lightly. It's like he had 2 modes, one is stiff and the other is light and he can't find the inbetween to just give the appearance of stiffness.

 

I'm not refuting Joe as the WOTY, I'm just rounding out the discussion by providing a different perspective and experience.

 

Joe vs. Lyger was a high profile match. And it certainly was one of the highest profile matches in Joes career, if not thee highest at this point. TNA advertising Joe vs. Lyger to 800,000 people on SPIKETV is pretty darn high profile.

[The Mandarin 0]

So are you going to try and see some of Joe's best work this year any time soon?

 

If you've only seen those two disappointing matches, Rudo, then you should hunt down some other stuff on the internet.

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

Rey has the worst punches I have ever seen. Ever.

There are far worse punchers in the WWe than Rey.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Then I haven't seen them.

 

Son, you don't understand. He did a turnbuckle punching spot and he was hitting the dude WITH HIS WRISTS.

[Black Lushus 0]

I hate Cena's "making the big comeback punching" spots...I just HATE them!

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

Scotty 2 Hotty is by far the worst puncher in the company. You can see him bend his wrist & open his hands when he punches.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

Angle's punches suck. Yes, they're rapid fire, but almost too quick, and the opponents hardly get a chance to sell them, IMO. Too curvy for my tastes.