Raw Rating...

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

But then, how will HHH get to show his dramatic range and ability to tout the company line?

[Guest *KNK*]

Well, despite all the sadness, Triple H did manage to book himself in the main event of Smackdown with Eddie's closest wrestling friend, Chris Benoit.

 

I pretty much had the same comments as Rudo, but didn't want to be say them in fear of getting blamed for a flame war.  I thought this whole thing was a work until Monday.  I mean, the timing was really bad.  No one was going to enjoy the TNA PPV, Orton was right in position for another failed title run, and if there was a "tribute show," it was a going to be a ratings spike, which WWE needed.  I mean WWE has made it a habit to lie to its fans about ANYTHING, so when they posted the news first, I was sadly suspicious.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Despite the fact local media reported it first?

 

You thought WWE paid an actual professional newsgroup to lie to general public about a death?

 

It's not far fetched.

[Guest *KNK*]

But then, how will HHH get to show his dramatic range and ability to tout the company line?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Cloning, you silly.

[Guest Brian]

God, Im' both distressed and happy over this rating. I'm happy, because it shows that people appreciated Eddie. But at the same time, I feel that this is the wrong message being sent to Vince, and it's a confirmation that these deaths mean nothing in the long run, that the fans are willing to continue watching in face of what his style of business has done to the workers.

[The Czech Republic 0]

I need an exact time and date.  Since these sort of things apparently have a time limit and you know them.  So when is the right time?  5 days? 7 days? 10 days?

Jerry Lawler's first use of "puppies" next week. Unless he let one slip last night, in which case it's all fair game

[Guest Fishyswa]

If Vince is so evil help him make a living? I've never seen so many people fill the pockets of a man they hate so badly.

 

It's sad that it takes less than a day for us to all go right back to the mindless bictching and complaining about the most irrelevant crap there is. I bet Eddie's glad we're finding a way to just enjoy things.

[pochorenella 0]

Man, Eddies death isn't going to discourage Vince from having his wrestlers abuse drugs and roids... it's going to encourage it...

 

Vince: You know, Chris, if you get a lil bigger there's another title run in your future...

 

Benoit: I dunno Vince, after Eddies death, I've sorta been reviewing my own habits and...

 

Vince: Oh... Ok ok... I see... I thought Chris Benoit loved this business and wanted to be the best, but... whatever... it's cool... I guess I'll just give the belt to Edge or someone willing to improve their look...

 

Benoit: Wait..

 

Vince: Yeesss?

 

Benoit: I'll uh, put more hours in the gym...

 

Vince: You do that.

 

Benoit: I'll do that right now.

 

Vince: Good.  And Chris...

 

Benoit: Yes, Vince?

 

Vince: If you're ever feelin bad, worse than usual, don't be afraid to speak up and tell me.  I really want to know.  So, uh... we can ... um... help you get better, or something...

 

*Benoit leaves*

 

*Vince picks up phone*

 

Vince: Yeah, Steph, get to work on the Benoit montage and make sure to have a super big angle ready for the next few weeks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Absolutely pathetic.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

If Vince is so evil help him make a living? I've never seen so many people fill the pockets of a man they hate so badly.

 

It's sad that it takes less than a day for us to all go right back to the mindless bictching and complaining about the most irrelevant crap there is. I bet Eddie's glad we're finding a way to just enjoy things.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

How exactly do I fill Vince's pockets? I don't have a Nielsen Box and I don't go to live events. I sure as hell don't buy those crappy T-Shirts they put out nowdays.

[Guest Fishyswa]

You follow the product, you're passionate about it. If Vince does something "outrageous" or controversial, your there to offer an opinion. The only thing Vince can't make money on is indifference, everything else is just fuel for his fire.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Except from what we hear when a Smark has an opinion Vince tends to do the oposite to spite us, so I'm not sure that will always help him. Plus my opinion isn't going to directly put money in his pocket. It hardly even indirectly puts money in his pocket. In fact I'm having trouble making the connection between my opinion and Vince making money.

 

But I guess all this is moot because I'm not one of those who is saying, "Ahhhh Vince killed Eddie he's the devil!"

[Guest Fishyswa]

In wrestling, the only thing you can't profit from is indifference.

 

Say you guys are on here talking about Vince like he's pure evil, and a new fan comes on, devoid of that "standard" knowledge we have, and he see's McMahon painted out to be the devil himself. Then he watches Raw, and see's Vince's character, an evil corporate suit driven by greed. There's no difference to be made, and now, that image of Vince is cemented.

 

Don't you ever wonder why the reports we read about these guys correspond so well with the on air characters? Triple H? HBK? Vince? Austin? It's all product, and the only way to stop them from making money off it is to be indifferent, to truely not care.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Of course the basis of your argument is that The Smarks actually have an effect on the product. Do you really think WE have an effect on the product? Have we ever shown to have one? Have we ever shown to have an effect on the fans?

 

Most anti-smarks come in here and bash us for thinking we have an effect on the product. Telling us that we're idiots to think that Vince would ever listen to us and how he'd be a fool to do so. Now we have the argument that we are effecting the prodcut and therefore should be indifferent. Unless there's been a wind of change lately I think we still fall under that vocal minority that Vince likes to ignore and the casual fan hardly knows about. We'd like to think that we're even the "Internet Pundits" that Vince wants to spite, but truth is that's guys like Scott Keith who actually get noticed. That's both the beauty and the downfall of what we do here. We can both watch and bitch without directly helping Vince, but we also don't help improve the product as we're hardly on the map.

[Guest Fishyswa]

"Of course the basis of your argument is that The Smarks actually have an effect on the product. Do you really think WE have an effect on the product? Have we ever shown to have one?"

 

WWE.com, Matt Hardy, the content of promo's from Vince, Rock, Big Show, Austin, Triple H, HBK and Hogan just to name a few.

 

"Have we ever shown to have an effect on the fans?"

 

You are the fans.

 

It's not about improving the product, it's about not caring. Vince can make money off you thinking he's an evil asshole, and he does. He can't make money off of you not having an opinion one way or another.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

I'm not the fan in the arena. I haven't been to a live show since 2002 and believe me I've had plenty of opportunities living here in Houston.

 

I'm talking specifically TheSmartMarks.com, not any other place or internet personality. Do you honestly think Vince McMahon has heard of TSM? Do you honestly think that anyone in WWE reads this site?

 

Another thing is I don't want WWE to die and I don't want them to fail. I know some on this board do and some wish for WWE's death daily. Some might even pray for it. Me on the other hand I want good things to do well in the ratings while bad gimmicks, storylines, and wrestlers don't. I want the product to improve and there are things I like watching from week to week. If I really have as much of an effect on the product as you say then that's more reason for me to become vocal about the things I do like. Sometimes I hope you're right.

[Guest Fishyswa]

Yes I definitely think they read it, since quotes from here have ended up in promo's word for word(Big Show talking about tough enough finalists). It's a collection of fans given a forum to openly talk about the product, to believe they ignore it is about as believable as the "Vince spites the internet" garbage. We're nothing more than loud fans to them. Not worth spiting and not worth ignoring.

 

The idea that we were ignored or not counted with the rest was just unbased thinking used to further the notion that we're somehow better than fans at live events. Anyone with a brain should of known that Vince's interest in the internet would grow as the internet did. Now that TV shows are being geared towards an "internet audience", and Vince is all about being a cutting edge businessman, how is it so hard to believe that we're being heard? Because the product isn't aimed towards our general concensus? That's because every fan wants something different, and there will never be a general concensus on what the product should be.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Well then we need to start becoming more vocal about what we like I guess.

 

By the way do you remember the exact quote from that Big Show promo?

[Guest Fishyswa]

Not exactly, but it was along the lines of "any guy in the back would jump at a chance like this". It was word for word a post made at this forum. Was kind of a trip to see.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

If Vince is so evil help him make a living? I've never seen so many people fill the pockets of a man they hate so badly.

 

Yeah, the shoebox under my bed is empty after spending all that money on the WWE.

 

It's sad that it takes less than a day for us to all go right back to the mindless bictching and complaining about the most irrelevant crap there is. I bet Eddie's glad we're finding a way to just enjoy things.

 

Actually, the only mindless thing here are people who think because someone died that the contributors to his death are absolved from criticism. Things like "I bet Eddie's glad" are mindless and particularly irrelevant. But if you want to play that game: I bet Eddies also glad that wrestlers will continue to take steroids, continue to abuse drugs, and continue to die-off way before their time and I bet Eddies glad that Vince McMahon will continue to not only let it go on, but will continue to sustain the environment that encourages it. In otherwords, I bet Eddies glad his death won't mean a damn thing other than some tears and good words on RAW and Smackdown.

[geniusMoment 0]

The question is: How many weeks in a row could WWE achieve these high ratings if a wrestler a week died. Sooner or later people would probably tire of watching these (except Downhome) and they would get normal ratings. But when?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Good point. That's the one flaw in the reasoning, people would eventually get numb to it. But I imagine they could have a wrestler pass every 3 months and get away with it. From there it's a matter of booking the shows to sustain the audience.

[Hektik 0]

Ideally, Vince would be wise to keep it to sweep months.

[Dangerous A 0]

Even then, it pretty much doesn't matter because Raw doesn't get any of the ad revenue no matter if it gets a 2.0 or 8.0 rating. Basically, from here on out, they should be primarily concerned with the rating for the Raw before and Raw after a PPV, since that indicates how many people were watching and perhaps influenced to purchase the show. The follow up is just as important.

 

 

Actually, the only mindless thing here are people who think because someone died that the contributors to his death are absolved from criticism. Things like "I bet Eddie's glad" are mindless and particularly irrelevant. But if you want to play that game: I bet Eddies also glad that wrestlers will continue to take steroids, continue to abuse drugs, and continue to die-off way before their time and I bet Eddies glad that Vince McMahon will continue to not only let it go on, but will continue to sustain the environment that encourages it. In otherwords, I bet Eddies glad his death won't mean a damn thing other than some tears and good words on RAW and Smackdown.

 

 

BTW, glad to see RRR in full force this afternoon, saying what needs to be said since there is an elephant in the room and no one is talking about it.

[MillenniumMan831 0]

nevermind, DA has it covered.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Dammit Dangerous A, quit killing my theory. I forgot about that ad revenue thing Let's see if they release a DVD instead.

[LooseCannon25 0]

Here we go....Listen I know you're supposed to be the ultimate WWE and Mcmahon hater and people here like to swing from your nutsack, but why don't you pipe it down at least for a few days and save the "Evil Mcmahon wants everyone to die for ratings" crap for next week or something.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I need an exact time and date. Since these sort of things apparently have a time limit and you know them. So when is the right time? 5 days? 7 days? 10 days? I mean, just because Vince McMahon is the greatest contributor to the steroid/image craze in pro wrestling history and has his guys on an insane schedule which essentially promotes drug use, doesn't mean he should be mocked, nor should the finger be pointed at him, at a time when someone dies because of such habits. My god, how downright insensitive of me to do such a thing. Times like these, Vince should be praised for how well he handled Eddies death on his television show and should reap the rewards of nice rating and now will continue to do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to prevent something like this from happening again. Gosh, I feel so bad now for disgracing the legacy of such a wonderful man in a time when someone dies. Excuse me while I light a fucking candle and keep silent on the issue.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Did i say he was a wonderful man? If you're going to disagree with me that's cool, that's what this board is for, but don't try to make things up and totally twist what i'm saying. I personally think your little promo was going a little too far and somewhat tasteless. You make it seem like Mcmahon hopes for his wrestlers to die for ratings. Give me a break, he didn't force Guerrero to do drugs and be an alcoholic. He even fired him for doing that shit and demanded he clean himself up. Take your WWE Hate goggles off for a second and realize you can't blame Vince for EVERYTHING. Eddie has to be held accountable for his own actions, like it or not.

 

I know you like MMA so let's look at it another way. You watch Pride, you know they don't test for steroids......do you also think that their president Sakaibara is the second coming of Satan as well? He does nothing to stop steroids either.

[Guest Brian]

I know you like MMA so let's look at it another way.  You watch Pride, you know they don't test for steroids......do you also think that their president Sakaibara is the second coming of Satan as well?  He does nothing to stop steroids either.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, the question is then does the way Sakikara run his business result in the deaths of his workers? Does the conditions under which he forces his workers to work under result in the use of steroids? Do pushes directly correlate with said use of drugs? Does the taxing nature of working the amount of dates they have to result in widespread use of painkillers, drugs, or alcohol?

 

Either you can blame the workers, and note that they have an inate attraction to unnatural drugs. Or you can blame the guy that pushes the system.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

I know you like MMA so let's look at it another way.  You watch Pride, you know they don't test for steroids......do you also think that their president Sakaibara is the second coming of Satan as well?  He does nothing to stop steroids either.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Either you can blame the workers, and note that they have an inate attraction to unnatural drugs. Or you can blame the guy that pushes the system.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There is enough blame for everyone. The promoter who wants a certain look from his top stars, that almost nobody can get without drugs. The wrestler who takes it, even though he knows the damage, but feels he has to in order to feed his family. And the fans who mark out for guys with huge muscles, and don't bother to think about what that wrestler is taking in order to get that physique he's marking out for.

[Guest Brian]

I don't want to get started with the fans. As of this point on, I'm not sinking another penny into the company.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

MMA and Pro Wrestling, in this case, are way different. PRIDE is criticized for putting Sakuraba in so many matches when it's clear the guy shouldn't be fighting anymore. I agree with that. To say that PRIDE encourages the use of steroids by who they push and promotes drug use through a harsh schedule like the WWE shows a clear lack of understanding of the issue at hand.

 

An MMA fighter doesn't do steroids because he feels the only way he can get a "push" is to look big and muscular. An MMA fighter doesn't do drugs to get through the next fight. There are cases -Mark Kerr for example- of this happening, but (a)They are much much much much fewer than in professional wrestling and (b) I wouldn't put the blame on Dana White or Sakikabara, because if you look at who their top stars are, nothing suggests that they favour big roided up guys. Pushes in both UFC and PRIDE are dependant mainly on performances, whereas in the WWE its more on look.

 

I don't blame Vince for everything. My feelings on Vince in regards to this issue can be best explained by what I wrote in HTQs blog the other day...

 

I think Vince should take a lot of the blame when things like this happen, because he sets the standards and he could *easily* stop a lot of it right now by implementing certain measures. But that's ethics we're talking about, and Vince doesn't see wrestlers as people. But while a lot of it is on Vinces shoulders, steroids is found in every sporting competition for a reason, and its the same reason its found in wrestling - to get a leg up on the competition, or to keep up with the competition. In wrestling, which is such a visual medium, its important to look bigger and stronger, because people will believe you are bigger and stronger without having to even watch you wrestle. So it's inevitable. Even without Vince, there would be steroid use. I just don't think it would be as rampant as it is today. And the fact that Vince could stop it if he wanted to puts responsibility on him when he doesn't, even while dead bodies pile around him. Inaction, in this case, is just as bad as action. Even though he doesn't force anyone to use them, he doesn't say not to - and when he pushes guys who use, it certainly doesn't say not to.

 

My little promo was an example of how the WWE operates. It's no coincidence that guys bulk up while getting a big push. Vince doesn't outright say "Take steroids", but he does push big guys who do take steroids over the lil guys who don't, so guess what? That's what he's essentially saying.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

It's no coincidence that guys bulk up while getting a big push.  Vince doesn't outright say "Take steroids", but he does push big guys who do take steroids over the lil guys who don't, so guess what?  That's what he's essentially saying.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Take a look at how big Rey and Kidman were in WCW, and how big they were, and became, in WWE. They didn't bulk up because they had a year with nothing to do but go to the gym.