Kaertos 0 Report post Posted January 13, 2006 To be fair, I've been a Bengals fan since I was a kid (my dad was a Browns fan and at the time there was none of the "The Steelers are our greatest rival" nonsense on either side) but, frankly, there hasn;t been much to talk about until this year. besides, this gives me a place to complain about the hit where people are actually intelligent. Just read this, thought it was interesting: What did Palmer injury teach us? Bengals are soft By Chick Ludwig Dayton Daily News Our careers — covering the Bengals and playing for them — overlapped three seasons (1997-99). During that time, two things struck me about Kimo von Oelhoffen: 1) He wanted to be a firefighter when his playing days were over. 2) He absolutely loved playing against the Pittsburgh Steelers. He loved playing against 'em so much, you'd have sworn he wanted to be one — while he was a Bengal. Each year during Steelers week, von Oelhoffen needed two Kleenex as he spoke, in awe, about the challenge of facing his idol, Steelers center Dermontti Dawson. One tissue to wipe the drool from his chin, the other to dab his starry, cloudy eyes. So it was no surprise that when von Oelhoffen's contract was up, he signed as an unrestricted free agent with the Steelers on Feb. 18, 2000. I'd have been shocked had he gone anywhere else. Well, I learned something more about the 12-year veteran on Sunday. He's a pretty good actor. After his cheap shot on Bengals quarterback Carson Palmer, von Oelhoffen raised his hands to his helmet pretending to be sorry. I didn't buy Kimo's act then. I don't buy it today. I won't buy it tomorrow. That the NFL didn't fine von Oelhoffen, coupled with referee Larry Nemmers' refusal to penalize him, is a double slap in the face of the Bengals organization. E-mailers have flooded my inbox, seeking my opinion on the play. I answer them with one word. D-i-r-t-y. Because every hit on a quarterback below the waist is exactly that. In exonerating von Oelhoffen, the league claimed he didn't have an unrestricted path to the quarterback. It said he was coming off a block (by left guard Eric Steinbach), got thrown off the block and his path to Palmer wasn't clear. What I saw was von Oelhoffen hit the ground, then lunge into Palmer's left knee, crushing his ACL and MCL. My first thought: Where's referee Bernie Kukar when you need him? Of the league's 130-plus officials, he's the No. 1 protector of quarterbacks. Back on Dec. 4, Kukar threw the flag on Bengals linebacker Odell Thurman for roughing Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger, and Kukar threw the flag on Steelers linebacker Clark Haggans for roughing Palmer. Nemmers never reached for his yellow hankie. It's wasted space to print here that the Bengals would've won the game had Palmer played its entirety. But it's not too far-fetched to think, and claim, that the Steelers' best chance at victory would be if Palmer got knocked out of the game. Longtime Bengals observers still remember the night of Oct. 10, 1983, when Steelers defensive end Keith Gary yanked quarterback Ken Anderson's head like a twist-off, soda-pop bottle. So von Oelhoffen's dirty hit was hardly precedent-setting. What genuinely surprised me was the Bengals' reaction. Instead of slamming Rudi Johnson and Chris Perry down the Steelers' throats in a test of manhood, offensive coordinator Bob Bratkowski allowed Jon "Crazy Legs" Kitna to heave 40 passes. Two got picked off. And tell me this: How could the Bengals — with their franchise quarterback on crutches, his knee encased in ice and out until August — let Roethlisberger and von Oelhoffen escape Paul Brown Stadium without a bump or a bruise? I have a feeling they were too busy bickering at halftime. Therein lies the difference between the two clubs. One is hard. The other is soft. Contact Chick Ludwig at 225-2253 or [email protected]. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slayer 0 Report post Posted January 13, 2006 I remember when the group of Bengals fans consisted of Choken and... umm... Yeah. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Czech Republic 0 Report post Posted January 13, 2006 Like, before it had been the usual: Boston composes the vast majority, then the New Yorks, Packers & Bears, and Choken One was really the only one who wouldn't shut up about the Bengals. Then Chad Johnson starts dancing around like an idiot and KABLAM about an eighth of the sports folder is from southern Ohio. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slayer 0 Report post Posted January 13, 2006 Say what you will about Choken, he stood behind his crappy Cincy teams Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
geniusMoment 0 Report post Posted January 13, 2006 They interviewed the doctor in Cincy. He said the AP reports are totally wrong, that the surgery went well, and he fully expects Carson to be ready by the start of next season. He said he is pissed over the report. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nl5xsk1 0 Report post Posted January 13, 2006 I'm not going to bother quoting the whole article for my response but this post is in response to the article that Kaertos posted ... How come the only people that are adamant about it being a cheap shot are Bengals fans & their local media? The worst I've heard from the (presumably impartial) national media is "questionable" and even that is the opinion of the minority. Was it a perfectly clean hit? No. But that doesn't necessarily make it a dirty hit, either. The world isn't all black & white, there are shades of gray. This hit falls into the shade of gray category in my eyes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kaertos 0 Report post Posted January 13, 2006 I agree about the hit. In general, I think it was a terrible concurrence of things that caused the injury. I posted the article because it was applicable and because it makes a good point about the Bengals. They were soft in that game and panicking far too early. Two reasons Bengals fans have increased: - Guys who lurked here the last few years thinking "Someday I'll get to talk about my team" finally getting the chance. - Fair-weather fans and bandwagon jumpers coming out of the woodwork, all of whom claim to be fans from birth even if the've been wearing Steelers and Patriots jerseys for the last ten years. And finally, the biggest reason Bengals fans (and I include myself in this one to a certain extent) are upset about the hit is pretty simple. We want an excuse other than "couldn't, and then didn't, run the ball" and "Ben Rothlesburger managed to make the entire defense go right, then threw left all game". Carson being hurt is a great reason. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Special K 0 Report post Posted January 13, 2006 Or it could be that since last season they've been the most fun team to watch in the NFL. And people like Palmer and Johnson. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kaertos 0 Report post Posted January 13, 2006 Well yes. :-) There is that. Hey, as a long-term Bengals fan, I am thrilled to see that there is a bandwagon to jump on. We had some fun teams to watch before (heck, even managing a couple of 7-9 and 8-8 seasons before Marvin Lewis) but there is something special about this team. I'm already looking forward to next season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vitamin X Report post Posted January 13, 2006 And you know, not to make this too big of an issue right now, but I read an article somewhere (should look for this later) about how loyalty to teams nowadays can be fleeting for the fan, since loyalty to a team, as an athlete, is fleeting as well. I personally don't agree with that but I could see how people can start really rooting for a team that's now playing well without necessarily being bandwagoners. Why get stuck with a team because of regional affiliations (especially for folks in non-NBA towns- that's why guys like KOT909 is a Jags fan, or you have me being a Packer fan, obviously) or because they're a team that your family liked growing up but you personally hate? My mom is a hell of a Dolphins fan, then became a Niners fan when we lived in California, and now is really a Dolphins fan again, but also supports the Packers (because of me I guess), and that's all well and good since she's no die-hard NFL fan or anything. So to anyone in southern Ohio who were ashamed to be Bengals fans before, there's no need to fear now. The organization's changed for the better, and it's a major difference than what was there in the 90's- go ahead and root for them, despite the overly traditional TSMers who feel you HAVE to be stuck rooting for one team that you can grow to really, really dislike over time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest El Satanico Report post Posted January 13, 2006 If the organization has truly changed for the better, Palmer will be fine. If underneath they are still the hapless Bungels, Palmer is done. To avoid any future "is he real or bandwagon" confusion, I'm a lifetime Browns fan. However, I'd welcome any and all people that want to jump on a bandwagon. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Special K 0 Report post Posted January 13, 2006 I agree. I'd been a Mariners fan since I was about 11-12, and stopped about a year ago. Even when the M's sucked before, you always had Griffey and Randy on the highlight reel, and the team had real cohesion. Then, all those guys left and they had their 116-win season. I went to the game where Ichiro got the hit record, and that was pretty much my goodbye to the M's. They are embarassing to watch, they play every game like a team who doesn't care. They cut Olerud, a longtime success and local boy after half of a lackluster season. So fuck 'em. I don't have the time or inclination to watch a bunch of games for a shitty team anymore. In fact, I just don't watch baseball anymore. I've been a small-time Bengals fan for a while because Dillon was on the team. He's fun to watch and a former UW stud. I was always a Seahawks fan, but their games were the only ones I watched regularly. I became fans of theirs last season when A) they became really fun to watch, B) I got more into football in general because I joined a fantasy league. Does that make me a bandwagon-jumper? Who cares? I've got my one team I'm devoted to, and then I'll watch the teams who have players I like, and exciting play. If you had switched the uniforms on all the players last week, I would have been rooting for the Bengals players in the Steelers uniforms. Sometimes I think that people pick about 6 teams, so that at least one of their teams does well each year, and they can go on and on about how they're real fans. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Princess Leena Report post Posted January 13, 2006 I'm a bandwagon girl. For teams that suck. And have nice climates. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slayer 0 Report post Posted January 13, 2006 One of the reasons I'm a steadfast loyal fan is I'm afraid as soon as I say "Fuck it, I'm through with this team" is when they'll suddenly become good again. Fuck, it essentially happened earlier this year when the Vikings were down 2-5 and then roared back to a near-playoff run Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest El Satanico Report post Posted January 13, 2006 I consider Tampa to be my NFC team, but Cleveland is the only team I'm truly devoted to. However, the only team I truly hate is Pittsburgh, and the only player I hate is John Elway. The Palmer hit is very questionable, but I guess I'll give the player the benefit of doubt. He was blocked to the ground, but he landed short of Palmer, and then sorta crawled into Palmer's knee. It may not have been deliberate, but he wasn't pushed into the leg by a Bengal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Special K 0 Report post Posted January 13, 2006 I'm just hoping they don't rush his return. I doubt they will. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vern Gagne 0 Report post Posted January 13, 2006 I fully admit to being a front runner. That being said. I've been a Carson Palmer fan since his days at USC. It's something I've done a few times. I liked Tim Duncan at Wake Forest, and became a Spurs fan, liked Derrick Brooks at Florida St and became a Tampa Bay fan. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nl5xsk1 0 Report post Posted January 13, 2006 This is more of a bandwagon post rather than a Bengals/Carson Palmer post, but ... The reason that I dislike the bandwagon jumpers is very selfish: when the Pats sucked, it was easy to get tickets. Not many people want to go to see a 4 win team on a cold December Sunday. Now that they're a double-digit win team, even the late season games get a good turnout. I'm also looking forward to the day that the Red Sox fall to mediocrity again. I like going to Fenway; I don't like going when tickets are outrageously expensive and the ballpark is full of dude-guys and frat-boys that are there only to chant "Yankees Suck" in their A-Rod Swallows t-shirts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vitamin X Report post Posted January 13, 2006 The Palmer hit is very questionable, but I guess I'll give the player the benefit of doubt. He was blocked to the ground, but he landed short of Palmer, and then sorta crawled into Palmer's knee. It may not have been deliberate, but he wasn't pushed into the leg by a Bengal. I agree. I only just saw the hit this morning on ESPN and I thought it looked like a little bit weird, especially considering Carson had let the ball go WAY beforehand and then Kimo just crawled in there. And there was no penalty for roughing the passer there? What essentially happened there was that Palmer's brace had failed him, since it wasn't a brutal hit or anything. Quarterbacks take hits like that all the time, and referees (this is a great thing too) usually try not to call too many penalties in the postseason and the teams just go all out nasty on each other this time of year. While I hate USC, I think Palmer's a class act, and a real nice guy from all I can see. It's a shame it had to happen to someone like him, especially for someone who was just coming into his own as an elite QB of the league. It'd be awful if he became a one-season wonder because of this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Special K 0 Report post Posted January 13, 2006 With NFL teams, they usually have very clear-cut football philosophies, differing by coach, and players usually stick around for a number of years. But man, baseball teams are often completely different after two years, who can even form an attachment to a team? The Yanks don't go to the WS and immediately Yankees fans are boo-hooing and demanding the firing of every player and coach on the team. I don't see that often with NFL fans, only occasionally for coaches, and that's often well-deserved. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Czech Republic 0 Report post Posted January 13, 2006 But man, baseball teams are often completely different after two years, who can even form an attachment to a team? The Yanks don't go to the WS and immediately Yankees fans are boo-hooing and demanding the firing of every player and coach on the team. The Yankees have still managed to keep a core: Jeter, Rivera, Williams, Posada, Torre; Mussina's going into a sixth year, Pettitte lasted nine. It's not much, but it's something. I think the Red Sox are just as bad, if not worse, as it pertains to demanding staff and roster purges. I'm thoroughly opposed to salary caps in sports, but watching Boston fans pore over every roster in the majors, going "I want him. Make a 3-way trade. I want him too. Make a 3-way trade. Oh get him too, 3-way trade," as if they can cherry-pick the league as no other club can, has been slightly irritating. Especially given that the farm system is pretty lively, at least compared to New York's. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vern Gagne 0 Report post Posted January 13, 2006 The reason that I dislike the bandwagon jumpers is very selfish: when the Pats sucked, it was easy to get tickets. Not many people want to go to see a 4 win team on a cold December Sunday. Now that they're a double-digit win team, even the late season games get a good turnout. If the local lads are putting a poor product on the field. Why should the fans feel obligated to attend the games? You go to a game to be entertained, watching Texans, or the Niners stink up the place doesn't sound like much fun. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nl5xsk1 0 Report post Posted January 13, 2006 I see your point, and obviously it's more fun to go see a winning organization compared to a losing one. It just sucked to have had such fun going to Pats games in the late 80s/early 90s (as much for the tailgating & throwing a football around as the game itself, although it was always fun heading into the game and watching them try and win a game) and now have going to games be way too cost prohibitive to be worthwhile. I went to the season finale. And between the ticket, parking, and three beers at the game spent over $200.00. And that doesn't include the beers & food for tailgating. Just astronomically expensive. I was happier when the Pats sucked and the cost would have been half as much. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Art Sandusky 0 Report post Posted January 13, 2006 What's strange is this week in my Madden season during the playoff game against the Steelers, Palmer's career was ended with a serious injury to his leg. Related Madden tidbit from me: My create-a-team's quarterback, who's a GOD in the league with a 99 rating, went down for the season during the preseason, so I signed free agent (and not-as-good since I'm playing 2005 and not 2006) Carson Palmer. He put up 395 yards in his first game. He'll be back, and the Bengals will hopefully only be set back a year before they get to the big game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JangoFett4Hire 0 Report post Posted January 14, 2006 Anyone else see a pattern with the Steelers? 2001 AFC Championship Game, Brady has to leave with an injury to his kneww. Week 3 this year, Rodney Harrison's season is done after a hit to... the knee. Bill The Chin Cowher is the NFL equivalent of Jeff Gillooly... Gillooly... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkktookmybabyaway 0 Report post Posted January 14, 2006 That 2001 hit was dirty, and it really made me want the Pats to win that game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gert T 0 Report post Posted January 16, 2006 To me, it was a questionable hit (i was too drunk at the game to see it). I can't lie, Dayton blew up as far as Bengals fans go, but we do have a lot of bandwagon fans. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kaertos 0 Report post Posted January 16, 2006 Yeah, I think my annoyance for fair-weather fans and bandwagon jumpers comes from living near Dayton. More fans like that than not. And really, if you come right out and say "I'm a front-runner" or "I like jumping on bandwagons" I'm really OK with that. It's the guys that were walking around Kroger in head-to-toe Bengals gear that insisted they were fans since they were sperm and have no idea who David Klingler or Jeff Blake or Carl Pickens were that drive me nuts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2GOLD 0 Report post Posted January 16, 2006 After seeing the hit over and over again, I didn't see anything unsportsmanlike about it. Guy had his head down and was going for the sack the only way he could get through the lineman. Is it smart to tackle a guy like that? No, but you can't tell a guy whose job it is to stop the run and sack the quarterback not to do his job. Shame Palmer got hurt but the hit was clean. It just wasn't a very smart one but what can a guy do? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Special K 0 Report post Posted January 16, 2006 This is actually so fucking lame. I am bleeding all over the place. This sucks. At least my score field looks really gory. Got a little but sliced. Good playoffs, goot times, Colts are pussies. Who also bleed all over the place. Jaysis. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
