ROH Dying????

[Guest 2TuffTony]

does anyone else think ROH is dying? I mean they are losing workers like crazy. And also its only a matter of time before guys like chris daniels, aj styles, and samoa joe are gonna be getting more TNA dates when they do house shows. And if TNA gets a better timeslot i can see these guys wanting to focus on TNA where they have a broader audience and not risk injury in ROH.

 

IDK guys it seems like ROH might be on its way out unless they somehow expand in order to stop the turnover of there wrestlers. cause that is a huge problem with a wrestling promotion. i mean people get there favorites and dont want the turnover like ROH is having

[Guest Coffey]

Far from it. Their attendance keeps going up and they make a ton of money off of their DVDs.

[Slingshot Suplex 0]

Low Ki and two midcarders leaving is not going to slow ROH's momentum. They'll be fine. They survived the whole RF debacle and they survived big name wrestlers leaving before (including LK). The selling point of ROH has become the ROH name more than the talent roster.

[Hawk 34 0]

One big name leaves the promotion along with two mid-carders who weren't key parts of the promotion anyways, and people are predicting doom? When they are announcing big draw main events like Marufuji/KENTA vs Joe/Danielson, Storm/Danielson and more on the way, expanding to new markets. Having record sales, rising attendence totals...

 

explain to me where it's dying. If a company is making profit, keeping it's fan statisfied and branching out in new markets? that doesn't equate with dying. That indictates they are thriving.

 

It also says the promotion is no longer dependant on specific wrestlers to survive, the ROH name sells itself.

[Mystery Eskimo 0]

ROH has been in far, far, far worse shape than it is now. This weeks losses are neglible compared to what is to come. Additionally Low Ki will most likely be back at some point, and Abyss and MCAT were hardly ROH mainstays to begin with.

 

If TNA sign up Joe, Aries, Strong, Shelley to exclusive contracts, then we can talk about ROH being in trouble, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

[Smartly Pretty 0]

They break even with ticket sales, and make profits on tape sales. They're far from dying.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Some live events draw enough to be profitable on their own, before tape or DVD sales.

[Precious Roy 0]

I think they definitely need to start planning for life after Joe, AJ, Daniels, Strong, Aries, Shelley, Homicide, Lethal and whoever else TNA decides to snatch up, but that's at least a year away and probably much longer. TNA is so far from being a touring company at this point, they're just now testing the waters with house shows. It's inevitable that as TNA expands some guys will have to take less ROH dates as TNA will no doubt want to run weekends (Joe), and some guys may cut out ROH altogether (AJ), but to say that ROH is "dying" is the grossest of gross overstatements. New indy darlings pop up on a yearly basis, and TNA can't sign EVERYONE to a contract, by the time ROH loses some of these guys there'll be new talent ready to step up in their place

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

ROH are always planning for their future. That's one of the things Sapolsky learned from Heyman; build things around the brand name and not any one person so that losing anyone doesn't do much damage. The one loss that would really hurt ROH is Samoa Joe, but even then I think ROH will recover.

[The Buzz 0]

It's almost too bad that TNA has the big money backer instead of ROH imo.

[naiwf 0]

It's almost too bad that TNA has the big money backer instead of ROH imo.

 

RoH wouldn't succeed if they tried to appeal to the masses. It's for the best they don't have someone willing to splash the cash around as it were.

[EricMM 0]

It's so weird to think that ROH would lose wrestlers out to TNA.

 

I've always gotten the impression that ROH is far far more stable than TNA.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

Well I'll take the otherside and say that it is ridiculous that RoH shys away from focusing on guys under TNA contract.

 

Relations between the two are stronger than ever and until TNA starts running house shows all over...all the time...there is nothing to lose from focusing on a guy who you can see on PPV and soon in prime time national TV.

 

Also...it sets them up as (and there is no other way to look at this) a breeding ground for the guys that are going to go to WWE or TNA someday.

 

Their practically publicizing themselves as a developmental territory for them at this point.

 

Now...the product is better. But they also Don't have the constraints of having to deliver a show for TV that last an hour or 2 with commercials...or even getting it all in on a 3 hour ppv.

 

It's better...because they can run 4 hour shows and sell that.

 

If they had TV and ppv...the product would be a hell of a lot different.

[Prime Time Andrew Doyle 0]

Now...the product is better. But they also Don't have the constraints of having to deliver a show for TV that last an hour or 2 with commercials...or even getting it all in on a 3 hour ppv.

 

If they had TV and ppv...the product would be a hell of a lot different.

 

T.V would hurt, but PPV wouldn't. TV has commercials and they would have to structure their shows around a whole range of issues, they would have to worry about quater hours, comemrcials, interviews, video packages e.t.c during 2 hours at best. But with PPV, they wouldn't have those same problems.

[Precious Roy 0]

Well I'll take the otherside and say that it is ridiculous that RoH shys away from focusing on guys under TNA contract.

 

ROH doesn't shy away from that. Who in this thread was even saying that they should?

 

ROH is in really good shape right now. They're bound to lose talent to TNA and WWE, but using that talent to the full extent while they still have them, and using the stage that talent has helped build as an "indy showcase" for up and comers with buzz is what can keep them strong longterm.

[Hawk 34 0]

Well I'll take the otherside and say that it is ridiculous that RoH shys away from focusing on guys under TNA contract.

 

ROH doesn't shy away from that. Who in this thread was even saying that they should?

 

ROH is in really good shape right now. They're bound to lose talent to TNA and WWE, but using that talent to the full extent while they still have them, and using the stage that talent has helped build as an "indy showcase" for up and comers with buzz is what can keep them strong longterm.

 

 

Exactly. Look at ROH's main eventers

Bryan Danielson, Joe, Aries, Strong, Homicide, Styles and Daniels (other names get used on occasions as well, but those are the core ME's). Notice something? Only Danielson isn't a TNA talent.

 

ROH has a brilliant business structure and they have utilized it very effectively. As long as they deliver a product, the fans will come back.

 

ROH lost London,Alexis, Raven, Briscoes, Low Ki (twice), Daniels, Styles, Punk, Gibson, Danielson (for a few months), Foley, Abyss, MCAT and others and they are still thriving.

 

Gabe is constantly updating his roster, using new talent on consistant basis, he has ROH planned out well in advance and he learned from Heyman how to work around departures.

 

ROH doesn't want TV or PPV. It's structured for the niche market they wish to attract and that has been done very successfully. Indy promotions don't last very long and they certaintly don't keep up with a long and consistant product that almost always statisfies their fanbase. They are very customer friendly.

 

Cary Silikan, owner of ROH will personally meet and greet every fan at the show. The wrestlers are always available for the fans. You won't see TNA or WWE wrestlers sitting down with fans at parties before and after the show.

 

That's a key element to ROH's success, how incredily fan friendly they are. WWE pretends to listen to the fans, but ROH directly listens to them. They even allow the fans to name the shows, pick matches and will directly talk to the fans about the booking plans.

 

ROH isn't dying. For every Low Ki, Abyss and MCAT they lose, there's 5 more talents coming in ROH to make you forget them.

[JustJoe2k5 0]

It's so weird to think that ROH would lose wrestlers out to TNA.

 

I've always gotten the impression that ROH is far far more stable than TNA.

 

TNA has television and pay-per-view. Publicity and money are far more important than anything else in the wrestling business.

[Hawk 34 0]

It's so weird to think that ROH would lose wrestlers out to TNA.

 

I've always gotten the impression that ROH is far far more stable than TNA.

 

TNA has television and pay-per-view. Publicity and money are far more important than anything else in the wrestling business.

 

 

TNA having TV and PPV doesn't make them stable. TNA doesn't make money. RING OF HONOR, does.

 

Making money is the most important thing, which ROH does. Not making Money, is what TNA does.

 

Publicity is nice but when you aren't turning over a profit, you aren't stable. TNA just has a good backer in Spike and Panda.

[EricMM 0]

ECW, much?

 

I don't want to see MEMORIAL shows for ROH, I want to see ongoing shows. I want them to get a PPV deal. I want their DVD's to go on NetFlix.

[Hawk 34 0]

ECW, much?

 

I don't want to see MEMORIAL shows for ROH, I want to see ongoing shows. I want them to get a PPV deal. I want their DVD's to go on NetFlix.

 

Not even close. Once again, ECW was horribly ran. Gabe and Cary have a well designed business structure. ROH isn't shutting down, the workers ARE getting paid, they are making money.

 

I guess it's hard to understand that ROH doesnt WANT or NEED ppv and tv to thrive.

[bob_barron 0]

ECW, much?

 

I don't want to see MEMORIAL shows for ROH, I want to see ongoing shows. I want them to get a PPV deal. I want their DVD's to go on NetFlix.

 

 

If ROH expanded, it'd be a disaster. They don't have the money or resources.

 

If you don't want a memorial show, then you should be happy with the business model they have now.

[Guest OSIcon]

ROH doesn't shy away from using TNA contracted guys, but they do stay away from building the promotion around them. That's smart for a couple of reasons. TNA might not be ready to run house shows yet, but you never know what might happen. Might as well be on the safe side and not dig yourself into a whole if TNA guys are suddenly unavaliable for all of your shows. I think TNA still isn't big enough to argue the point that all TNA guys should be featured at the top of ROH shows just because they are more well known. You can have Styles on an ROH show and he is going to pull in just as many TNA fans, regardless of wheather he is facing Matt Sydal on the midcard or is wrestling for the title.

 

The dying talk is dumb. Abyss was a part timer. Millano was a relatively new midcarder. Low Ki is a blow, especially in the short-term since he was booked in so many big upcoming matches. They'll get by it though.

[Hawk 34 0]

ROH doesn't shy away from using TNA contracted guys, but they do stay away from building the promotion around them.

 

The promotion isn't booked around anyone for the matter, not even Danielson or Joe.

 

It's always a ROH show, not a indy show staring Samoa Joe and Bryan Danielson.

 

Gabe was willing to place the title on WWE contracted worker, twice. Knowing full well that WWE could easily order them to no-show those dates and hold the title hostage. TNA and ROH have a working relationship, TNA lets ROH keep its talent, ROH sells and promotes TNA items and they have worked together on certain things. ROH allows TNA workers to use the TNA titles on ROH shows, TNA will give ROH a mention on national television or pay per view.

[EricMM 0]

I was actually making the point that having PPV's and television doesn't lead to any sort of job stability for the workers...

 

And the wishes were just that, wishes.

 

But if they make enough buzz to increase the cost of their tickets? Maybe someday they can stream their shows online, or something like that. I certainly can't go to NY, and ordering DVD's online is so not me.

[Hawk 34 0]

I was actually making the point that having PPV's and television doesn't lead to any sort of job stability for the workers...

 

And the wishes were just that, wishes.

 

But if they make enough buzz to increase the cost of their tickets? Maybe someday they can stream their shows online, or something like that. I certainly can't go to NY, and ordering DVD's online is so not me.

 

I don't know where you are from but they have more markets then NY.

 

Ohio, Detroit, Chicago, Minnesota, Philadelphia, New Jersey, Conn for instance, and more to be added this year.

 

I don't know why you don't order online but ROHWRESTLING.COM has fantastic delivery speeds and fantastic fan friendly sales.

[The Buzz 0]

No doubt, I make orders from ROH twice a month sometimes(My job pays me well for my lack of bills) and haven't had any problem until last week, and that was only because I didn't place my order number on my money order. They worked with me and we found the order, and problem is fixed like that.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

What you (topic starter) said is stupid and you're stupid for saying it.

[Guest Coffey]

I don't know where you are from but they have more markets then NY.

This is true, however, for some people, it's still not a possibility. I live in the midwest, Terre Haute, IN. The closest ROH comes to me, Chicago or Dayton, it's still a four hour drive. Not only that but you don't want to be on the road four hours pre-show, have the show end around eleven or twelve and then be on the road for another four hours post-show. So, you'd need a hotel room. The tickets are anywhere from 25-45 or so, we had second row tickets when we went to the last Dayton show. So, that's thirty-fuck bucks. Then eight hours of gas and a hotel room. Not to mention eating for two days. It was a helluva lot of money just to attend an Indy show.

[Smartly Pretty 0]

You could just go to one of the bigger shows, and make a whole weekend vacation of it, sight seeing, and shit.

[Hawk 34 0]

You could just go to one of the bigger shows, and make a whole weekend vacation of it, sight seeing, and shit.

 

Exactly, it's an perfect excuse to go to Chicago, during WM weekend. 2 ROH shows with major matches and international presence as well as Lance Storm's return to the ring.

 

Also, 4 Hour drive? That's nothing. You don't even need a hotel room with that distance.

 

I hit the Dayton/Cleveland double-header in January and spent a grand total of $125 bucks (Tickets for each show, gas, dinner). I drove from Dayton to Cleveland saturday morning, and from Cleveland to Dayton saturday night and got home @ 3:30 am. 4 hours each way is a short drive and you only spend alot of money, if you spend alot of money.