Loose Change 2nd Edition

[Stephen Joseph 0]

You still fail in your argument.

 

You're resting it on semantics and correlations, which doth not a counterargument make.

 

http://www.airdisaster.com/cgi-bin/view_de...rican+Airlines+

 

http://www.airdisaster.com/special/special-0911.shtml

 

notice the big FUCKING plane

[2GOLD 0]

You still fail in your argument.

 

You're resting it on semantics and correlations, which doth not a counterargument make.

 

http://www.airdisaster.com/cgi-bin/view_de...rican+Airlines+

 

http://www.airdisaster.com/special/special-0911.shtml

 

notice the big FUCKING plane

 

The plane was just an illusion. There was no plane. Those people who were on the flight are on vacation!

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

You still fail in your argument.

 

You're resting it on semantics and correlations, which doth not a counterargument make.

 

http://www.airdisaster.com/cgi-bin/view_de...rican+Airlines+

 

http://www.airdisaster.com/special/special-0911.shtml

 

notice the big FUCKING plane

 

 

At the Pentagon? Nope. Don't see it. That 3rd pic down shows pretty much nothing recognizable. If thats the pic I'm supposed to notice.

[Justice 0]

You still fail in your argument.

 

You're resting it on semantics and correlations, which doth not a counterargument make.

 

http://www.airdisaster.com/cgi-bin/view_de...rican+Airlines+

 

http://www.airdisaster.com/special/special-0911.shtml

 

notice the big FUCKING plane

 

 

At the Pentagon? Nope. Don't see it. That 3rd pic down shows pretty much nothing recognizable. If thats the pic I'm supposed to notice.

 

This argument was already taken by Doyo long ago, around the time he was laughed off the CE Boards.

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

I'm looking for the giant fucking plane in the links he provided. Have you seen it?

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

You still fail in your argument.

 

You're resting it on semantics and correlations, which doth not a counterargument make.

 

http://www.airdisaster.com/cgi-bin/view_de...rican+Airlines+

 

http://www.airdisaster.com/special/special-0911.shtml

 

notice the big FUCKING plane

 

No, I repeatedly stated that I am not questioning the actual *meat* of the article.

 

Doth thou understand?

 

Notice when I said "I'm not an engineer". I simply demonstrated that the article has signs of bias (1. language and 2. relationship of lead researcher to Director of Homeland Security).

 

Objectivity is something to be considered when considering research that purports to be scientific.

 

I don't know where you are getting that I am arguing semantics (where do I question the meaning of a word?) or correlations (?).

 

I also don't know why you, in your infinite wisdom, posted links to planes hitting a building when I never claimed planes didn't hit a building. I stated that I thought the "official story" of 9/11 was likely true. If you didn't catch it, the official story is that planes hit the towers.

[Stephen Joseph 0]

You critiqued an article by saying it has bias?

 

Tell me, do you have a degree or any professional qualifications to really discuss bias?

 

Is bias enough to destroy an argument, if present.

 

Nigga please, don't try the bias route with me. Even if there is bias, which I can acknowledge could be present, the statistical research and evidence presented by PM clearly is still sound.

 

Cheesela, you should talk to my friends here. PLENTY of them saw the BIG FUCKING PLANE hit the pentagon, because they were Walking home since the MEtro was shut down after the towers were hit.

 

Thats it , im done.

[Stephen Joseph 0]

http://www.purdue.edu/UNS/html4ever/020910...n.Pentagon.html

 

Notice that this is an educational institution, not a HACK website

[Art Sandusky 0]

No one else ever wonders why no other footage of the plane hitting the Pentagon besides the single security camera has been released?

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

You critiqued an article by saying it has bias?

 

Tell me, do you have a degree or any professional qualifications to really discuss bias?

 

Is bias enough to destroy an argument, if present.

 

Nigga please, don't try the bias route with me. Even if there is bias, which I can acknowledge could be present, the statistical research and evidence presented by PM clearly is still sound.

 

I didn't know you had to have a degree to recognize bias in a piece of writing. I do have a degree.

 

Also, Popular Mechanics is a magazine for the layperson, not a refereed scholarly journal. It has a running feature called "Jay Leno's Garage".

 

I tend to agree with the "official" 9/11 story. Because I don't have the background to fully investigate the incident for myself, I have to rely on the work of people more knowledgeable than myself. I have to put trust in them to honestly and objectively tell me what happened to the best of their ability. With the PM article, I can't bring myself to fully trust them because of the hackish language they use denigrating people who disagree coupled with the fact that the research for the piece was led by a family member of the guy who runs DHS.

 

Finally, I am not, nor will ever be, your "nigga".

[Stephen Joseph 0]

then you sir, will continue to help keep the 911 conspiracy bullcrap alive

 

and yes, I too also have a degree in rhetoric

[Dobbs 3K 0]

The bottom line is, if you think 9/11 was some kind of conspiracy or a lie, you probably hate America anyway so it really doesn't matter what anyone says to dissuade you about this issue either way, because you want to believe what you want.

 

I saw it happen live on TV. So did millions and millions of other people. Arab Muslim terrorist barbarians killed about three thousand people, then took credit for it. Isn't that enough?

[Art Sandusky 0]

Something happening on live television doesn't make it ironclad reality. We all ended up at this board by watching a certain program on live television every Monday night.

 

And the "you hate America" line is soooooo played out. Fuck off with that dumb shit. I'm not sure if you noticed in the midst of all this perversion of what America is supposed to be, but we're built on questioning and disagreement. My distrust of how genuine any of the jokers in the White House or their *appointed, not elected* cabinet are whenever they say virtually anything isn't hating America, it's distrusting certain people. What crap.

[SuperJerk 0]

Times like these I'm really glad Jim Garrison is dead.

[Guest]

Nigga please, don't try the bias route with me. Even if there is bias, which I can acknowledge could be present, the statistical research and evidence presented by PM clearly is still sound.

I'll never read any of your posts whilst drinking soda again. That was a close call.

[The Czech Republic 0]

And the "you hate America" line is soooooo played out. Fuck off with that dumb shit. I'm not sure if you noticed in the midst of all this perversion of what America is supposed to be, but we're built on questioning and disagreement.

"I criticize my government so I'M the real patriot" is even more played out.

[Art Sandusky 0]

Did I say I was a goddamn patriot? Find something else to make a pithy remark about.

[2GOLD 0]

So, anyone going to see "Flight 93" in theaters? I think I'll catch the new...well whatever else is playing that weekend instead.

 

A main problem I've had with the theories is most of them were shot down when you take reality into it but it was still a lot of jumping up and down and whining that the theory was true. The "Government knew" one isn't much of a theory to me as a fact. I'm sure the US government did know a plot of some kind existed but I don't think they knew the details and what they did know probably had about 18 different versions.

 

I've just got tired of the "missile hit the Pentagon" and the "planes exploded before the towers" bullshit. They've been beaten down and proved bullshit time and time again. The plane was seen by people on the ground, I'm sorry there is no video for you and even if the video did exist I bet you that people would start screaming, "IT'S FAKE! GOVERNMENT COVER UP!!" even louder.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

See, basically these people on the fringe are telling everyone else to prove a negative...a classic false argument.

 

"See...the government could have faked everything. I don't have any concrete proof, but you can't prove they didn't do it either!"

 

Oh, btw, I did watch some of the video...it's funny how they try to take all this completely unrelated stuff going back to the '60s and Cuba, and try to tie it in to 9/11. You think people in goverment coming up with a plan to stage attacks on Guantanamo was out there? The government also had a plan to make Castro's beard fall out at the same time. That's how out there things were during the Cold War. It's not some big eye opening surprise.

 

The creator of the video also doesn't cite sources for a lot of their info, or it's just some random website or something. Again, the guy doing the voiceover sounds like some college student who's been brainwashed by his liberal professors.

 

Art...comparing the 9/11 attacks to pro-wrestling is pretty fucking stupid, too, and really trivializes the _real_ deaths that happened on that day. I'm not some conservative who thinks we need to keep talking about that day as if it was the most important day in American history (I didn't even vote for Bush), but your complete lack of reality in your arguments is pretty telling of where you are on the political fence.

[Art Sandusky 0]

I make no illusions of where I am on the fence. That doesn't mean that I lack the ability to look at something objectively.

 

This was your argument:

I saw it happen live on TV. So did millions and millions of other people. Arab Muslim terrorist barbarians killed about three thousand people, then took credit for it. Isn't that enough?

You're pretty much saying that because everyone saw it happen, there couldn't possibly be anything remiss about the situation. Trying to accuse someone of trivializing the resultant deaths is also re-directing the argument into a position where your opponent is forced to agree with you. It's not very effective.

 

Okay, for all who dismiss anything that isn't the official story, why were the towers' power grids shut down for three hours (meaning we don't have any security camera footage of this time period either) a few days before the attacks for the reason of upgrading their computer network when this was a procedure that had yet to be executed once since the towers' opening in the mid-70s? And why were the bomb-sniffing dogs removed around the same time? Finally, if the planes hit the towers well above ground level, why were firefighters reporting at the time that there was explosion-like destruction (dust caking everything, elevator doors blown open, etc.) all the way down in the lobby?

 

There are simply a lot of questions that should be answered somehow, but until people can get over themselves and stop dismissing anything they don't agree with, none of them will ever get more than a "psh, you're just some wacko" reaction.

 

EDIT: Of course no one will believe me, but I don't mean to imply anything by asking these things. Just because you have questions doesn't mean that you assume the worst. How the entire incident has been cynically used by everyone to force one agenda or another to this very day and for years in the future has me far more upset than any news of what actually happened could make me.

[SuperJerk 0]

And the "you hate America" line is soooooo played out. Fuck off with that dumb shit. I'm not sure if you noticed in the midst of all this perversion of what America is supposed to be, but we're built on questioning and disagreement.

"I criticize my government so I'M the real patriot" is even more played out.

 

translation: "I know you are but what am I?"

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

Are these pictures magic eye? Cuz I still can't see the goddamn fucking plane! I want to see the plane that hit the pentagon. Nice and clear. Til then, this remains suspect.

 

 

 

Sorry, Steve. Don't trust the government to tell it's people the truth no matter who is in charge. They keep secrets. Lots of them. Some for good reasons, some less than good. It's a bad relationship.

[Art Sandusky 0]

I should add (on a government secrets-related note), in all seriousness, that if this administration were the one that finally went public with what the government knows about UFOs and aliens I would completely forgive everything.

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

I should add (on a government secrets-related note), in all seriousness, that if this administration were the one that finally went public with what the government knows about UFOs and aliens I would completely forgive everything.

 

 

 

Dammit, why did you have to get all logical and making sense on me? I'd do the same. Goshdarnit.

[Art Sandusky 0]

Let's ignore that it would be a huge step for the human race as a whole. Of course, your kind of liberal is completely oblivious to any kind of big picture. FUCK DEVIL BUSH

[Red Hot Thumbtack In The Eye 0]

The Jews did WTC

 

It's a shame that a lot of people in this discussion are turning this into a big ego drama instead of simply addressing the information in the video provided in the first post.

[Vyce 0]

We know absolutely nothing about aliens, even supposing that they exist.

[Art Sandusky 0]

Besides, all this business about the Earth revolving around the Sun is so much conjecture also.

 

You buy anything you're told by a guy in a suit, don't you?

[Vyce 0]

What the fuck are you babbling on about? There isn't any hard evidence I've seen that the government is keeping aliens secret or any of that bullshit. If you know of anything concrete that you can show me other than something you gleaned from the Art Bell show, I'm willing to look at it with an open mind.

 

Jesus, don't be so fucking sensitive. It's not as if I'm some sort of government stooge if I say "Hey, there's no hard evidence of UFOs or space aliens!" It's not as if I'm going out on a limb making a crazy assertion there.

[Art Sandusky 0]

"Even supposing they exist" was how you ended your previous post. Come on, I don't know of anyone who doesn't at least think they exist.

 

Hey, maybe the government doesn't know anything about 'em. That statement flies in the face of loads of documents from the late 40s and 50s, but maybe it's all a big ol' snipe hunt.