Bret/Bulldog SS 92 or Bret/Bulldog IYH 5

[Guest bigm350]

I've seen the Bret/Bulldog Summerslam 92 match quite a few times but I never did see the Bret/Bulldog IYH 5 match, until I got the Bret dvd.

 

Both matches are awesome, but I like their IYH match just a little more. Both matches had a great pace, and told great stories, but I like the IYH match more because it seemed like Bulldog more than held his own in this match, than the SS match. Bret has told the story that the Bulldog went blank like a minute or two into their SS match, and Bret had to do a 30 minute carry job. Also its apparent that Davey did forget a couple spots, when he forgot to catch Bret, when Bret hit him with a plancha, and Bret had to twist and turn to avoid injury. Also, when Bret was hitting Davey with the European uppercuts, it looks like Davey forgot to catch the third uppercut attempt, and turn it into a backslide. They repeated the spot later, and you could see Bret say "backslide", and Davey turned into a pin attempt. I know Bret has said this is one of his favorite matches, and it certainly holds up.

 

The IYH match was great. It didn't look like Bret had to carry Davey as much in this match. Davey was solid, and the blood added to the story of the match. Also, Bret seemed to add a few different wrinkles into this match, and stray more from his usual formula of moves, using La Magistral to pin Davey, and using an attempted Vader Bomb on the outside, which Davey caught, and turned into the running powerslam on the floor.

 

I think the IYH match is underrated, and also holds up very well today. Anyways, what match, out of these two, do you like better?

[MillenniumMan831 0]

I enjoyed the IYH match more also. Loved the physicality and the continunity in regards to the SS92 match (Diana in the corner, same tights for DBS, and I believe he tried the same cradle which won it for him in Wembley). The SS92 came across more like a wrestling exhibition whereas IYH came across more like a championship fight.

[cabbageboy 0]

This purely comes down to "What match meant more to me as a fan?" And to me it's of course the SS 92 match. It's my favorite match. This is not to say I don't also like the IYH match, but I think it was a violent match for the sake of pleasing the ECW goofs that were in the PA crowd.

 

I suppose that there were some highly innovative spots in the IYH match, but at the end of the day I can't help but go with the epic pageantry of Wembley stadium and 80,000 people.

[4hartthreat 0]

I think the SS92 match is the better of the two. Both are excellent matches though. I think the only reason the IYH match is underrated is because it is, obviously, an In Your House match. That means not as many people have seen it as would have had it been at a major ppv.

[Black Lushus 0]

historically? Summerslam

 

workrate? IYH

[Guest Coffey]

If Summerslam '92 would've ended with a Bulldog running powerslam instead of a rollup move, I would've liked it a lot more. It's the same reason why I've never been real high on Bret/Owen from WMX. I just don't like matches that end without a real move...I feel jipped.

 

It's not always true, like when Bret won the IC title from Piper.

 

I've never seen IYH5, so I can't really answer the question.

[Black Lushus 0]

If Summerslam '02 would've ended with a Bulldog running powerslam instead of a rollup move, I would've liked it a lot more. It's the same reason why I've never been real high on Bret/Owen from WMX. I just don't like matches that end without a real move...I feel jipped.

 

I know what you mean...like the victor won on a fluke rather than actually being better, stronger, whatever?

[Wrestlefreak 0]

Definatly SS92. In my opinion the workrate is better and the atmosphere is amazing.

[Big McLargeHuge 0]

I like those endings, in certain situations. In the context of SS '92, it made sense. Both guys hit their finishers and they didn't work. Today, they'd just trade finishers for 5 minutes and end it, which I hate.

 

The ending made me appreciate the match alot more because it was creative. Neither guy would die so each had to look for the tiniest opportunity to put the match away, and Bulldog took it. They didn't put it over that way, but they could've.

 

The finish to the IYH match, on the other hand, was completely out of nowhere. Didn't really work for me.

[Si82 0]

The IYH match.

 

It seemed like a much more violent, physical match that was much more a battle than the SS match.

[Just John 0]

IYH, rather easily. I think the SS match is one of the more overrated matches of all time. Too much chinlockery for my liking.

[humanoid92 0]

I like those endings, in certain situations. In the context of SS '92, it made sense. Both guys hit their finishers and they didn't work. Today, they'd just trade finishers for 5 minutes and end it, which I hate.

 

The ending made me appreciate the match alot more because it was creative. Neither guy would die so each had to look for the tiniest opportunity to put the match away, and Bulldog took it. They didn't put it over that way, but they could've.

 

The finish to the IYH match, on the other hand, was completely out of nowhere. Didn't really work for me.

 

I couldn't agree more. I hate it when guys just trade finishers back and forth, use each other's finishers, etc. Finishers shouldn't be the only way to end matches; otherwise, what's the point of everything else? Matches like this established that matches could actually end out of nowhere, which makes near falls mean something. Unlike today, or especially the Attitude era, when guys would go through the motions of trading near falls, but the crowd didn't buy it at all because every match ended with a finisher or interference.

 

The point is to pin the guy's shoulders to the mat- one way to do that is to knock him out, and one way to do that is to trap him. Pinning combinations are traps. Some of the universally agreed best matches ever have pinning combination for finishes: Bret/Bulldog, Savage/Steamboat, Bret/Owen, Bret/Perfect (KOTR), Bret/Piper, Bret/Austin (SS), etc. There are a lot more memorable ones too. I think I actually prefer matches that don't end with finishers sometimes because they're less predictable, and makes the pinfall that much more dramatic.

 

As for the Bret/Bulldog Summerslam match, I don't think it made Bulldog look weaker because he didn't win it with the running powerslam. If anything, it makes him seem smarter and more resiliant. His finisher didn't work but he found another way to get it done. The finish made sense. All it took was Bulldog anticipating that one move and countering the sunset flip and Bret was trapped.

 

As for the original topic, I think both matches are incredible but I'll always take the Summerslam one over IYH. The storyline was awesome, it was really the first time there was a "Hart family" storyline, it was for the IC Title, Bret finally got to end a show, it put both the winner and loser over huge, 80,000 people, Wembley, big time PPV, Heenan on commentary, Diana, etc. One of my favorite entrances by Bret too. He just looked so cool... this was when he really felt like a huge star. I love a lot of the spots in this one too; like the double clothesline into the grapevine into the sharpshooter, the waistlock counter to the floor, Bulldog's big comeback, the finish, etc. I like that they did a different type of match at IYH while still playing up their past. The powerslam on the fun was awesome, and the blood made it memorable. Great match in its own right, but I don't think anyone bought that Bulldog had a legit shot at going over so the outcome was kind of a foregone conclusion. There's just no way it could have topped Summerslam for me.

[chaosrage 0]

IYH, rather easily. I think the SS match is one of the more overrated matches of all time. Too much chinlockery for my liking.

 

Totally agreed. They use wear down holds for a long time and it slows the match down to a crawl. I always found the SS match to be boring.

[Black Lushus 0]

i can't even remember, what was the build to the IYH match?

[humanoid92 0]

i can't even remember, what was the build to the IYH match?

 

There wasn't a ton of build up. Bulldog had only been a heel for a few months at that point and had challenged Diesel for the Title at the previous IYH. Bret did commentary for that match to help set up his Survivor Series match with Diesel, where he won the Title.

 

The Bret/Bulldog match was Bret's first PPV Title defense. It was too soon for a Diesel rematch (they tended not to run the same main event 9 times in a row back then) and there were pretty much no top heels to deal with. Undertaker and Shawn were faces and were in line for shots at the next two major PPVs. Yokozuna was no longer taken seriously, and the only other heel that could have been a legit challenger was Owen, but that had been done to death. The lack of heels was still a problem after Shawn first won the Title a few months later; after going over a departing Nash, he was thrown into a program with the Bulldog. By the middle and end of '96, Vader, Sid, and Austin had been established, but for awhile there the top of the card was hurting on the heel side.

 

Anyway, they basically just played up that Bulldog was a legitimate challenger and had beaten Bret before and could do it again.

 

A few weeks after the IYH match, they showed it in its entirety on an episode of Raw, which I remember being really excited about since I had missed it on PPV.

[Prime Time Andrew Doyle 0]

There wasn't a ton of build up. Bulldog had only been a heel for a few months at that point and had challenged Diesel for the Title at the previous IYH. Bret did commentary for that match to help set up his Survivor Series match with Diesel, where he won the Title.

 

Yeah, Hart attacked the Bulldog during his title match and Bulldog challenegd the winner of the SS95 match between Hart & Nash

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

I think both of these matches are greatly overrated. But SummerSlam is historically more significant and a slightly better match, IMO. At least they're DIFFERENTLY worked. When I met Bret in Philly, I told him I was excited to see his IYH match with Davey, because I was at an NFL playoff game that night and never saw it. He just did his usual pompous jerk of a grin and barely shook my hand. I've always hated Bret, you so know what, that may influence my opinion. Oh well. Maybe it's Bulldog, but I find Bret/Bulldog to be much overrated and stuff like HBK/Bulldog to absolutely suck. Bulldog just never had the goods as a single unless working with a bumping machine or someone he had good chemistry with like Owen.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

Bret Hart challenged the winner of Diesel/Bulldog to a title match. Bulldog technically won. So Bulldog was given the title shot in December.

[King Cucaracha 0]

I found the IYH match pretty dull until the bladejob, actually. The crowd were dead too, which might have made it seem duller, I'm not sure. It picks up after Bret's busted open and Bulldog's turnbuckle spot where he lands on his head is insane, but I'd take Summerslam over IYH if only for the atmosphere.

[Papacita 0]

I saw the IYH match before I saw Summerslam (and watched it live at that), so that may influence my preference some, but I always preferred their second match. Plus the match features some of my all-time favorite spots, which is always a plus.

 

On the IYH build, one of the major building points going into the second match was the fact that Diana was firmly in her husband's corner the second time around.

[Black Lushus 0]

yeah, I originally saw the match on PPV way back when...didn't see it again til I found it on a used comp. tape a couple years back and of course those don't show any of the buildup, just the match. I don't know if it was clipped at all, i think some spots might have been.

[Slayer 0]

Side note: I think the guys who said "matches can only end after big moves" are fucking nuts. First there's the lack of variety brought about by this (witness the E for most of this decade) and second, it's exciting to have a match finish just out of nowhere (witness Bret/Owen or SS92)

 

During Goldberg's big winning streak, I always thought the guy who would finally beat him should use an inside cradle countering the Jackhammer, since it was clear you weren't going to overpower him. Bret would have been perfect for that, of course, but this was end-of-the-road WCW we're talking about.

 

...when was the last time someone in the E used an inside cradle, anyway?

[cawthon777 0]

Summer Slam gets my vote simply for the atmosphere and finish. And for the fact I credit that match for making me a fan.

 

The Summer Slam finish made more sense. Bulldog hits the powerslam ... 2 count ... Bret gets Davey in the Sharpshooter, Davey reaches the ropes. They trade a few near falls and then - BAM - the 3 count.

 

I didn't care for the IYH finish. Seemed anti-climatic in the sense that the match didn't seem like it was ready to be over and the Oklahoma side roll, while rarely seen at the time, didn't have that "OMG, here comes the 3 count" feeling to it.

[MillenniumMan831 0]

I can understand the argument about the anti-climatic IYH finish. But I dug the story of how Hart was completely spent (partially due to blood loss) and was desperate to win the match anyway he could. Plus immediately after the match, Bulldog was sucking wind to make it appear that his tank was on E as well.

[Hawk 34 0]

There wasn't a ton of build up. Bulldog had only been a heel for a few months at that point and had challenged Diesel for the Title at the previous IYH. Bret did commentary for that match to help set up his Survivor Series match with Diesel, where he won the Title.

 

Yeah, Hart attacked the Bulldog during his title match and Bulldog challenegd the winner of the SS95 match between Hart & Nash

 

Wasn't there a promo from Bulldog sitting by a christmas tree with Diana and he talked about Bret and his 'box of shattered promises' or something? Or am I thinking of something different?

 

Anyways, I love SS92 for the historical factor and It was the first match that I can really remember rewatching over a dozen times. For a long time, I considered it my all-time favorite match. That being said, I still perfer IYH95 over it from all angles except nostalgia.

 

Also, I actually perfer the finish to SS92 over the usual "finisher wins match" result, especially in a match where the story was that both men threw everything at each other and Bulldog, was forced to put aside his usual strong suits (strength and power) and had to outsmart Bret to beat him. Much better that way, then Bulldog finishing him off with a running powerslam.

 

By locking him into that postition, he proved to Bret he could outwrestle him. It was much more effective that way.

[Papacita 0]

Wasn't there a promo from Bulldog sitting by a christmas tree with Diana and he talked about Bret and his 'box of shattered promises' or something? Or am I thinking of something different?

While I don't remember the shattered promises quote, I do remember the interview you're talking about, and it was actually what I had in mind when I said the build up was centered around Diana.

[Si82 0]

When I met Bret in Philly, I told him I was excited to see his IYH match with Davey, because I was at an NFL playoff game that night and never saw it. He just did his usual pompous jerk of a grin and barely shook my hand. I've always hated Bret, you so know what, that may influence my opinion.

If you've always hated Bret why did you buy his DVD and then go to meet him?

[Celtic Jobber 0]

I enjoyed the IYH match more also. Loved the physicality and the continunity in regards to the SS92 match (Diana in the corner, same tights for DBS...

 

 

Actually, Davey wore different tights at the IYH match than he had on at SummerSlam '92.

 

Lawler incorrectly said they were the same tights in the commentary, but he was just saying that to add to the atmosphere of the match.

 

At SS 92 Bulldog's tights had text on them and were designed differently than the ones he wore in the IYH match. Watch both matches on Bret's dvd set to see what I mean.

[MillenniumMan831 0]

Ah ok. I'll take your word on that. Had me fooled. I thought DBS looked different but I wrote that off to him having shorter hair than in 92.

[Jericholic82 0]

Wasn't there a promo from Bulldog sitting by a christmas tree with Diana and he talked about Bret and his 'box of shattered promises' or something? Or am I thinking of something different?

While I don't remember the shattered promises quote, I do remember the interview you're talking about, and it was actually what I had in mind when I said the build up was centered around Diana.

yea and the fact that she was 100 percent behind her husband over her brother (basically her "heel turn", remember she was the catalyst for the later DBS/HBK feud in 96)

 

I have never seen the SS 92 match in full, but I did see the IYH match live on ppv (it happened on my 13th b-day , so I got to order it as a present, plus IYH's back then cost only 14.95). I saw it replayed on raw and havent seen it since

 

 

Man I need to get Brets dvd