UFC 59: Reality Check

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

Monson/PDP- PDP

 

You crazy?

 

Monson is gonna wreck this dude.

[Adam 0]

You picked Sylvia. You therefore cannot comment on whether someone elses choices are stupid or not.

[starvenger 0]

Tito Ortiz vs Forrest Griffin - Tito Ortiz. There should be no way that Ortiz loses this.

Andre Arlovski vs Tim Sylvia - Arlovski

Nick Diaz vs Sean Sherk - Sherk. I don't think Diaz can stop the takedowns and we know that Sherk is good at lying down on an opponent, so be prepared for more whining from Diaz. I'll actually pull for the crybaby to win though.

Jeff Monson vs Marcio Cruz - Jeff Monson

Evan Tanner vs Justin Levens - Evan Tanner

David Terrell vs Scott Smith - David Terrell

Karo Parisyan vs Nick Thompson - Karo

Jason Lambert vs Terry Martin - Terry Martin. Over/Under on "the flying knee" comments during the PPV - 5

Thiago Alves vs Derek Noble - Thiago Alves

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

You picked Sylvia. You therefore cannot comment on whether someone elses choices are stupid or not.

 

Your a Pacers fan. You therefore are bitter, and is mad because your team can't make it past .500!

 

I can't wait for the Maine-iac to pull off the upset.

 

Arlovski isn't invincable.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Nope.

 

But Sylvia just isn't that good. His only hope of taking this is taking AA down (maybe), holding him down (unlikely) and keeping him there (OMG LOLZ~) the entire fight en route to a JD. This is of course presuming that Sylvia can last 5 rounds without gassing (SUPER OMG LOLZ~!).

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

Nope.

 

But Sylvia just isn't that good. His only hope of taking this is taking AA down (maybe), holding him down (unlikely) and keeping him there (OMG LOLZ~) the entire fight en route to a JD. This is of course presuming that Sylvia can last 5 rounds without gassing (SUPER OMG LOLZ~!).

 

Hey, Sylvia beat very good fighters in the past like Pedro Rizzo(Same man who KO'd Arlovski), so I think he is very capable of knocking Arlovski out.

 

I've learnt from watching MMA, never say never. Stranger things have happend.

[Lei Tong 0]

Sylvia never beat, or even fought Pedro Rizzo. His best win to this date remains an in-shape Ricco Rodriguez.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

Sylvia never beat, or even fought Pedro Rizzo. His best win to this date remains an in-shape Ricco Rodriguez.

 

My mistake, I always get Rizzo and Ricco mixed up for some reason.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

I'm too lazy to check for myself but there's shit going 'round that on Rampage's website he mentions something about "Cha-Ching" and the 15th.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

More hilarity: Sylvia also said that he can last five rounds while he doesn't think Arlovski has the gas to.

 

Don't worry Tim, it won't take AA that long to put you away.

[AmericanDragon 0]

I'm changing a pick after seeing Sato vs Zambidis. It's a completely different sport but if you saw the fight then you can probably guess why I'm changing it to Diaz over Sherk.

 

Tim Sylvia vs Andrei Arlovski

Tito Ortiz vs Forrest Griffin

Nick Diaz vs Sean Sherk

Karo Parysian vs Nick Thompson

Evan Tanner vs Justin Levens

Jeff Monson vs Marcio Cruz

Terry Martin vs Jason Lambert

Dave Terrell vs Scott Smith

Derrick Noble vs Thiago Alves

[Hawkius Maximus 0]

I think Tim has a shot. Granted, it's only a shot, but it could still work. In their first fight, Sylvia bullrushed in and basicly got his ass stomped. If he stays back, throws some jabs, and dictates the pace of the fight with his reach, he has a shot at winning that way. If Arlovski closes the distance, and takes him down, or hell, even lands a hook, the fight is over. It all depends on how Sylvia approaches the fight.

 

And I really think Forrest has a shot. Once again, not a huge shot, but a shot none the less. I don't really see what Tito owns him at so significantly. This isn't Quarry v.s. Franklin here, Forrest is a very well rounded and should be able to put up a fight against Tito. I think standing, Forrest has the advantage but on the ground, Tito will have the advantage provided Forrest doesn't lock on a submission from the bottom.

 

I REAAAAAAALLLLLY want this show. Really, really. I usually don't want UFC shows that much, but goddamn do I want this one.

[Damaramu 0]

Forrest is the only TUF guy that has a shot at a real world class fighter isn't he?

I didn't watch UFC yet hardcore but looking at old cards even I was like "Franklin vs. Quarry? Franklin probably killed the guy!"

 

Can anyone in that division take Franklin anyway?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Diego beat Nick Diaz, which is so-far the biggest win out of all the TUF guys (post-TUF).

 

The MW division, IMO, is the most competitive division. Jorge Rivera, a year and a half ago, had a very competitive match with Rich Franklin. Rivera is not even a top 10 guy in that division.

[AmericanDragon 0]

Can anyone in that division take Franklin anyway?

 

Anderson Silva

 

I'm pretty sure Silva could beat Franklin right now and if he gets his match with Lindland soon and beats him decisively, he'll definitely beat Franklin.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Forrest has been training with Couture for a few months, so he was essentially working with a better version of Tito. And the Countdown last night said he'd be training with Chuck leading up to the fight (plus there was the TUF training). That helps big time. This is a really good fight to gauge where both guys are at in the division - if either guy is a contender.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

Forrest has been training with Couture for a few months, so he was essentially working with a better version of Tito. And the Countdown last night said he'd be training with Chuck leading up to the fight (plus there was the TUF training). That helps big time. This is a really good fight to gauge where both guys are at in the division - if either guy is a contender.

 

I really don't think that is going to matter.

 

Forrest Griffin can train with Couture, Liddell, Franklin, Hughes, Shamrock, Mike Tyson, Jesus Christ and God himself, and still won't end come saturday.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Anderson Silva would get destroyed by Franklin if he was smart.

 

Takedown, GnP than he can finish him with strikes or a submission.

 

I also wouldn't say that Tito is a lesser version of Couture just yet. I believe the guy has improved a ton and would like to see how he would do this year. I could see him beating Chuck this year.

[Angel_Grace_Blue 0]

Dama brings up an interesting question (Though this might not be the best place for it, but I'll leave that up to you guys): Which, if any, of the TUF fighters (Either season) have the best chance at becoming a champion, either by virtue of fighting in a 'weak' division or their own skills?

[AmericanDragon 0]

Anderson Silva would get destroyed by Franklin if he was smart.

 

Takedown, GnP than he can finish him with strikes or a submission.

 

I can't see Franklin submitting Anderson since his subs are pretty basic. I also don't see him stopping him with gnp because Anderson is pretty durable and rarely seems hurt or even tired after fights. The only way I can see Franklin winning is by decision from laying on Silva the entire time. That's why if Anderson can take Lindland out, there's really nothing Franklin can do against him.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

I wouldn't say Franklin's subs are basic. He's got a nice triangle, and shows good offense from the mount. He could have handled Rivera a lot sooner than he did if he chose to take the fight to the ground.

 

Anderson Silva was submitted by Ryo Chonan and Daiju Takase. He was also getting handled by Newton on the ground, a bona fide 170 guy, before he decided to stall after Newton took a chance and gave up position. Anderson Silva is a fairly one-dimensional fighter.

 

As for who will be the best fighter, I don't know about success since he's in the most stacked division in MMA, but Josh Koscheck is P4P the best fighter on that show in my opinion. A Koscheck/Diego rematch would be pretty huge I think, considering they've both been doing quite well for themselves since the show ended. Koscheck seems to have improved more than anyone else, while also being a great athlete and young.

[AmericanDragon 0]

I wouldn't say Franklin's subs are basic. He's got a nice triangle, and shows good offense from the mount. He could have handled Rivera a lot sooner than he did if he chose to take the fight to the ground.

 

Anderson Silva was submitted by Ryo Chonan and Daiju Takase. He was also getting handled by Newton on the ground, a bona fide 170 guy, before he decided to stall after Newton took a chance and gave up position. Anderson Silva is a fairly one-dimensional fighter.

 

As for who will be the best fighter, I don't know about success since he's in the most stacked division in MMA, but Josh Koscheck is P4P the best fighter on that show in my opinion. A Koscheck/Diego rematch would be pretty huge I think, considering they've both been doing quite well for themselves since the show ended. Koscheck seems to have improved more than anyone else, while also being a great athlete and young.

 

The Chonan and Takase subs kind of came out of nowhere. Well ok, the triangle Takase got him in was just a normal triangle that he rolled into but all I've seen from Franklin is the ability to do an armbar. I'm pretty sure Franklin wouldn't be able to submit Silva.

[Lei Tong 0]

I wouldn't say Franklin's subs are basic. He's got a nice triangle, and shows good offense from the mount. He could have handled Rivera a lot sooner than he did if he chose to take the fight to the ground.

 

Anderson Silva was submitted by Ryo Chonan and Daiju Takase. He was also getting handled by Newton on the ground, a bona fide 170 guy, before he decided to stall after Newton took a chance and gave up position. Anderson Silva is a fairly one-dimensional fighter.

 

As for who will be the best fighter, I don't know about success since he's in the most stacked division in MMA, but Josh Koscheck is P4P the best fighter on that show in my opinion. A Koscheck/Diego rematch would be pretty huge I think, considering they've both been doing quite well for themselves since the show ended. Koscheck seems to have improved more than anyone else, while also being a great athlete and young.

 

The Chonan and Takase subs kind of came out of nowhere. Well ok, the triangle Takase got him in was just a normal triangle that he rolled into but all I've seen from Franklin is the ability to do an armbar. I'm pretty sure Franklin wouldn't be able to submit Silva.

 

Silva sucks balls on the ground, and has throughout his career. Azaredo, Sakurai, Kato, Newton, Takase, & Chonan all gave him problems there. The last competent ground fighter that Anderson beat was Jeremy Horn, who managed to injure himself shooting a takedown. For as good a boxer and kickboxer that he is, Anderson's ability on the ground seems inversely proportional. Outside of him landing a clean right straight as Rich comes in, Anderson gets controlled for a couple of rounds until Rich mounts, and Anderson either gives up an arm or his back.

[AmericanDragon 0]

I wouldn't say Franklin's subs are basic. He's got a nice triangle, and shows good offense from the mount. He could have handled Rivera a lot sooner than he did if he chose to take the fight to the ground.

 

Anderson Silva was submitted by Ryo Chonan and Daiju Takase. He was also getting handled by Newton on the ground, a bona fide 170 guy, before he decided to stall after Newton took a chance and gave up position. Anderson Silva is a fairly one-dimensional fighter.

 

As for who will be the best fighter, I don't know about success since he's in the most stacked division in MMA, but Josh Koscheck is P4P the best fighter on that show in my opinion. A Koscheck/Diego rematch would be pretty huge I think, considering they've both been doing quite well for themselves since the show ended. Koscheck seems to have improved more than anyone else, while also being a great athlete and young.

 

The Chonan and Takase subs kind of came out of nowhere. Well ok, the triangle Takase got him in was just a normal triangle that he rolled into but all I've seen from Franklin is the ability to do an armbar. I'm pretty sure Franklin wouldn't be able to submit Silva.

 

Silva sucks balls on the ground, and has throughout his career. Azaredo, Sakurai, Kato, Newton, Takase, & Chonan all gave him problems there. The last competent ground fighter that Anderson beat was Jeremy Horn, who managed to injure himself shooting a takedown. For as good a boxer and kickboxer that he is, Anderson's ability on the ground seems inversely proportional. Outside of him landing a clean right straight as Rich comes in, Anderson gets controlled for a couple of rounds until Rich mounts, and Anderson either gives up an arm or his back.

 

I don't remember Sakurai dominating him on the ground. In fact I remember it being a completely dominant victory for Silva, both on the ground and standing. And I don't remember Chonan giving him trouble on the ground either. It's obvious that his weakness is his ground game though, but I really don't think Franklin can submit him or even do enough damage to him on the ground. If he's on his back, he could always stall and get stood back up for more chances on the feet. UFC doesn't do anything about that so there wouldn't be any consequences. He's my favorite middleweight fighter but I don't think he's the best. I do think he's the one to beat Franklin though.

[Lei Tong 0]

Sakurai didn't dominate him on the ground (and in fact was later in troulbe there), but did manage to win the first round with a good Judo throw and G&P.

 

Also, I don't see Anderson as being gifted enough defensively on the ground to keep Rich from laying some hurt down. Outside of being able to regain and keep a closed guard, Anderson offers little from his back.

[AmericanDragon 0]

Sakurai didn't dominate him on the ground (and in fact was later in troulbe there), but did manage to win the first round with a good Judo throw and G&P.

 

Also, I don't see Anderson as being gifted enough defensively on the ground to keep Rich from laying some hurt down. Outside of being able to regain and keep a closed guard, Anderson offers little from his back.

 

Well I would agree with you but after seeing how easy it was for Hoger to just keep his guard as tight as possible to force a standup without any consequences, I'm pretty sure Silva could do the same.

 

edit: Is an upkick from the guard to an opponent's head considered kicking a downed opponent?

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

Rich Franklin has shown he can be beaten. Loiseau should've finished him when he had the chance to, Franklin was hurt badly.

 

Anderson Silva does have a chance, I really want to see how Jeremy Horn would do with Rich Franklin, I really think he has a great chance at beating him.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

MMAweekley is reporting that the main card will be........

 

AA/Sylvia (Main Event, so they say)

Forrest/Tito

PDP/Monson (FARK YEAH)

Levens/Tanner

Sherk/Diaz (I don't think they could've opened w/ anything else).

[Lei Tong 0]

Sakurai didn't dominate him on the ground (and in fact was later in troulbe there), but did manage to win the first round with a good Judo throw and G&P.

 

Also, I don't see Anderson as being gifted enough defensively on the ground to keep Rich from laying some hurt down. Outside of being able to regain and keep a closed guard, Anderson offers little from his back.

 

Well I would agree with you but after seeing how easy it was for Hoger to just keep his guard as tight as possible to force a standup without any consequences, I'm pretty sure Silva could do the same.

 

edit: Is an upkick from the guard to an opponent's head considered kicking a downed opponent?

 

Franklin > Rashad. Common.

 

Also, an upkick to an opponent's head is illegal if they are either on both knees, 3 points, etc. In other words, pretty much the same as if the kicker was standing above them throwing soccer kicks. Ricardo Almeida was DQ'ed for doing the same thing in the UFC against Matt Lindland.

[AmericanDragon 0]

Sakurai didn't dominate him on the ground (and in fact was later in troulbe there), but did manage to win the first round with a good Judo throw and G&P.

 

Also, I don't see Anderson as being gifted enough defensively on the ground to keep Rich from laying some hurt down. Outside of being able to regain and keep a closed guard, Anderson offers little from his back.

 

Well I would agree with you but after seeing how easy it was for Hoger to just keep his guard as tight as possible to force a standup without any consequences, I'm pretty sure Silva could do the same.

 

edit: Is an upkick from the guard to an opponent's head considered kicking a downed opponent?

 

Franklin > Rashad. Common.

 

Also, an upkick to an opponent's head is illegal if they are either on both knees, 3 points, etc. In other words, pretty much the same as if the kicker was standing above them throwing soccer kicks. Ricardo Almeida was DQ'ed for doing the same thing in the UFC against Matt Lindland.

 

I still don't think Franklin can damage Silva on the ground. All Silva has to do is get a body triangle (easily done for him) and stall to get a forced standup.