Marvel's Civil War

[Bruce Blank 0]

Does it? so you're alright with beliving that a guy can have an indestrucble skeleton and retractable claws? You're okay with a guy being able to shoot devastating beams of light from his eyes? You're okay with a guy having spider powers?

 

But you're not okay with Wolverine being able to regenerate with full memory and everything as long as there is a single cell of him left to regenerate from?

 

Alrighty then

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

Remember how you read an X-Men comic in 1991 and were like "Hey, Wolverine has muscles. Cool. Hey, Bishop has muscles, cool."

 

And then you read a Youngblood comic and said:

 

"Um...that guy/girl has really unrealistically drawn muscles. That's really stupid."

____

 

That's the point. Someone's Liefeld-ing with Wolverine's book and putting unrealistic (and in COMICS, thats a stretch) stuff in it.

 

"Wolverine can just heal from a skeleton" slaps in the face every writer and fan that was there for say, Fatal Attractions when he was just about to die after having the metal taken out of him. Or when Jubilee helped him from near death at the hands of the Reavers. WOLVERINE STILL HAD ALL HIS BLOOD AND HIS SKIN THERE, and was seconds away from DEATH. And he just shrugs off being melted down to a skeleton? CMON.

[Bruce Blank 0]

There obviously was something left beyond the skeleton, even if it didn't specifically say so

 

Now if you want to argue rate of regeneration yes that I understand, inconsistent depiction of how fast it takes, I'm with ya they don't "sell" it the same way from one guy to the other. Editors need to actually pay attention to these things - consistency is lost on these occasions.

 

The worst part is that THAT scene could have worked without Wolvie being reduced to a pure skeleton

 

But the actual science of how it regrows and he should have amnesia and what not little minutia like that - nah I'll just put that under "suspension of disbelief" sinces it's fiction.

 

that's two different arguments - and bringing Lifield into ANYTHING is bad form, you should have your mouth washed with soap

[Scroby 0]

I picked up Civil War #3 today, along with a few tie-ins that came out this week. Here are my thoughts, spoilers will be a yellow bar.

 

Civil War #3

Pick this one up if your following the series. I won't spoil much here but here's the main thing happens.

 

The first MAJOR battle happens between the heroes...a lot of heroes

 

X-Factor

I don't know what it is, but I'm just not getting into this X-factor tie-in.

 

For those who don't know whats going on

Quicksilver has gone to "Mutant town" and the X-men are hunting him, while X-factor is protecting him, Hose of M is involved

 

X-Men

This one got to the point and fast could be intresting

 

The 198 (I think thats the right number) escaped from the grounds of the manson(sp?) and Cyclops, Beast, Angel, and Iceman snuck out and decided to fine them before Iron Man's group does. At the end of the comic, something that looked like a sentinenal...but looks differant caught Emma, who stayed behind, to far from the house, that was the end of the comic

 

Deadpool and Cable

I liked this comic and it really made me a fan of Deadpool.

 

Deadpool got hired as a bounty hunter and is hunting down those who won't sign the act. He was hired after the "Great Lake Warriors" defeated Deadpool. Deadpool was trying to capture them and turn them in so he could be hired as a bounty hunter but the numbers were just to much for him. The "Great Lakes Warriors" turned in Deadpool and he got hired anyways and decided to hunt down Daredevil.....but accidently found all the "secret avangers", the next comic is called "Deadpool gets whooped". Cable....I'm unsure about, he tried to convince

Captain America to go somewhere else but Capt. refused and Cable left.

 

Also Civil War She-Hulk #8 and the Illumanti, Road to Civil War got re-printed, and the Daily Bugle newspaper came out..I also picked those up as well.

[ZGangsta 0]

Civil War #4.

-So they cloned Thor? That's pretty weird.

-And then the clone went and killed Goliath.

-The Invisible Woman and the Human Torch ditch the Fantasitc 4 to join up with Captain America.

-Now it seems that the government (and the pro-reg Avengers) is going to be using super villians to bring in the anti-reg heros.

 

Lots of goings on.

[SuperJerk 0]

Civil War #4.

-Now it seems that the government (and the pro-reg Avengers) is going to be using super villians to bring in the anti-reg heros.

 

Lots of goings on.

 

I was really hoping they'd keep it hero vs. hero, what with that being the entire appeal of the series and all.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

Civil War #4, and the entire storyline, sure blows.

 

Seriously:

 

CLONES! CLONES??!?!?!? WHAT??!

 

A "Civil War" needs tons of deaths, not one.

 

Where was Hank Pym at the hero who died's funeral?

 

I think this obviously ends with some type of neutral evil spy unleashing Reed & Tony's "NEW SUPER HUMANS" they created, and the heroes working together to stop them. "It's not WHO you are, it's WHO you fight for!" and everyone makes up.

____

 

"I was really hoping they'd keep it hero vs. hero"

 

I'm pretty much a Marvel Zombie, except for a few DC books. But Marvel Hero Vs. Marvel Hero sucks. Especially since most of Marvel's heroes, save Spider-Man, the X-Men, The Thing, and maybe a few others, don't appeal to everyone. Captain America. Iron Man, the numerous "giant growing characters", Wasp, Cloak, Dagger, etc., really have no connection to the audience. They're old and boring. DC has actually kept its heroes fresh. Check out "Identity Crisis" for how you do this. So I can see why the whole "HERO VS. HERO!" thing is given a break in Issue #5.

 

Plus, Jack O' Lantern is going to pumpkin bomb Captain America into the ground.

 

And Bullseye Vs. Daredevil. And, and, and I wanna see Venom Vs. uh...Hercules! Just so Hercules can die somehow.

[ZGangsta 0]

IGN just called Civil War the next Watchmen.

Yeah right.

[SuperJerk 0]

"I was really hoping they'd keep it hero vs. hero"

 

I'm pretty much a Marvel Zombie, except for a few DC books. But Marvel Hero Vs. Marvel Hero sucks. Especially since most of Marvel's heroes, save Spider-Man, the X-Men, The Thing, and maybe a few others, don't appeal to everyone. Captain America. Iron Man, the numerous "giant growing characters", Wasp, Cloak, Dagger, etc., really have no connection to the audience. They're old and boring. DC has actually kept its heroes fresh. Check out "Identity Crisis" for how you do this. So I can see why the whole "HERO VS. HERO!" thing is given a break in Issue #5.

 

Plus, Jack O' Lantern is going to pumpkin bomb Captain America into the ground.

 

And Bullseye Vs. Daredevil. And, and, and I wanna see Venom Vs. uh...Hercules! Just so Hercules can die somehow.

 

Please tell me this is sarcasm.

[Scroby 0]

The Villian's had to do something within the series. They can't magically dissappear while this is going on. Having the Villian's on someone's side doesn't surprise me, but what villian is on whose side does. Like knowing Green Goblin and now Venom are both on the pro-reg side along with Spider-man is a surprise.

[SuperJerk 0]

The villians in this series should be used to get the heroes a reason to be in the same place at the same time.

 

Come on folks, super-hero vs. super-villian is what Marvel does 90% of the time as it is (the other 10% being X-Men vs. some government agency). Is it really time to complain you can't get enough super-hero/super-villian battles?

 

And heroes bringing in villians to fight other heroes? Dumb. The villians are about 100x more dangerous to society than the renegade heroes are. That makes as much sense as the police sending Charles Manson after you because you shoplifted.

[Black Lushus 0]

did he say Cap and Iron Man are boring???

[FroGG_NeaL 0]

Yeah, and also that Cloak and Dagger have been around longer than Spidey, X-Men and the FF.

[Steviekick 0]

No one better mock Cloak and Dagger on my watch.

 

I think the whole cloning subplot is actually kind of interesting. It shows Iron Man to be really psycho and manipulating. That's really fucked up that he was trying to extract DNA from Thor.

[Special K 0]

I thought they'd keep it just a little more ambivalent about which side you're supposed to think is in the right. Guess not.

 

I was surprised that Cap kicked Spidey's ass. Spidey, with his superhuman strength, agility, spider-sense and fancy new suit can't beat an essentially really good fighter who's in good shape.

 

Cloned Thor is so stupid on so many levels. He comes equipped with a magical hammer? Really? If you cloned Dr. Doom would he come complete with crazy armor and magical powers? I mean, I realize this is comic books we're talking about, but that is just dumb.

[Steviekick 0]

I was surprised that Cap kicked Spidey's ass. Spidey, with his superhuman strength, agility, spider-sense and fancy new suit can't beat an essentially really good fighter who's in good shape.

 

I would pick Cap over Spidey any day. He's the best and most trained fighter in Marvel, their equivalent of Batman.

[ZGangsta 0]

Cloned Thor is so stupid on so many levels. He comes equipped with a magical hammer? Really? If you cloned Dr. Doom would he come complete with crazy armor and magical powers? I mean, I realize this is comic books we're talking about, but that is just dumb.

There was a shot of the hammer opened up with a bunch of wires and probes coming out of it. So I guess they built the magical hammer...

[Justice 0]

^As above. I think someone on another board mentioned a duplicate Thor SHIELD threw at the Avengers or something was wielding a hammer that was electronic, so that's what it might be.

 

Frankly, this is character-death for both Reed Richards and Tony Stark. I mean, Christ, cloning Thor? No offense, but at least Mr. Fantastic has more scruples than that. This whole crossover has gotten progressively worse as it's gotten more and more obvious that "GOVERNMENT BAD!! THEY LIE, CHEAT AND STEAL FROM J00!!!", while we have Captain America being bitter as all hell and everyone else being "OMG I DIDN'T THINK THIS COULD HAPPEN!!"

 

Fuck this, Ultimates #12 comes out tomorrow. I'm saving my stuff for the Ultimate Line, since that's the only line that's really worth it anymore.

[Scroby 0]

^As above. I think someone on another board mentioned a duplicate Thor SHIELD threw at the Avengers or something was wielding a hammer that was electronic, so that's what it might be.

 

Frankly, this is character-death for both Reed Richards and Tony Stark. I mean, Christ, cloning Thor? No offense, but at least Mr. Fantastic has more scruples than that. This whole crossover has gotten progressively worse as it's gotten more and more obvious that "GOVERNMENT BAD!! THEY LIE, CHEAT AND STEAL FROM J00!!!", while we have Captain America being bitter as all hell and everyone else being "OMG I DIDN'T THINK THIS COULD HAPPEN!!"

 

Fuck this, Ultimates #12 comes out tomorrow. I'm saving my stuff for the Ultimate Line, since that's the only line that's really worth it anymore.

What is the "Ultimates" series about? I've heard/read that a lot of people are talking about it, but I have no clue what its about.

[ZGangsta 0]

^As above. I think someone on another board mentioned a duplicate Thor SHIELD threw at the Avengers or something was wielding a hammer that was electronic, so that's what it might be.

 

Frankly, this is character-death for both Reed Richards and Tony Stark. I mean, Christ, cloning Thor? No offense, but at least Mr. Fantastic has more scruples than that. This whole crossover has gotten progressively worse as it's gotten more and more obvious that "GOVERNMENT BAD!! THEY LIE, CHEAT AND STEAL FROM J00!!!", while we have Captain America being bitter as all hell and everyone else being "OMG I DIDN'T THINK THIS COULD HAPPEN!!"

 

Fuck this, Ultimates #12 comes out tomorrow. I'm saving my stuff for the Ultimate Line, since that's the only line that's really worth it anymore.

Yeah Ultimates completely smokes Civil War, and also deals with super heroes as government agents in a better way. Odd, since they're both written by Mark Millar.

[teke184 0]

Let's see about a recap so far...

 

 

New Warriors: Dead, except for Speedball

 

Spider-man: Gave up his secret identity, is now officially Iron Man's personal rent-boy.

 

Thor: Cloned, real one could still return. (Just fucking shoot me now)

 

Thunderbolts: MASSIVE recruitment campaign... The only good thing coming out of this is that there are a bunch of cool villains that Zemo and company can lord over now, like Doc Ock, Bullseye, Green Goblin, Lady Deathstrike, Taskmaster, and the Wrecking Crew.

 

Fantastic Four: Split up. Reed's pro-registration, Johnny and Sue are anti-registration, and Thing's staying neutral. Egghead Reed fucks up yet again when it comes to doing things on a personal level.

 

 

 

 

It'll take them actually getting around to finishing the series (SERIOUS delays already), but it looks like this could be one of those things that takes a long-term view to determine its quality.

 

 

Killing off minor characters for no reason = bullshit. If you're going to do a massive kill-off, at least do it like the original Scourge business from the mid-80s where you have a build-up, a massive kill-off, and a follow-up.

 

 

Spidey's change, which has been happening since he joined the New Avengers, is something I don't really agree with but I'd like to see what they do with it. (Spidey's always been very lone-wolf. Having to answer to Stark AND the feds is a new thing for him.)

 

 

The Thunderbolts becoming the default government superhero team AND getting access to heavy hitters like Bullseye makes things interesting. This brings them back to where they were around issue 5, as opposed to the dynamic that was used for about 75% of their issues.

 

(By that, I mean the "X-Men style heroes who get shit-upon by the government" dynamic ever since they blew their cover and were exposed as the Masters Of Evil.)

 

This is something I'd like to see them continue with for a while, but they'll probably make Zemo do something to fuck it up before the end of the Civil War.

 

 

The Fantastic Four- I smell a new line-up. They do this every so often when either Reed and Sue have marriage problems or Thing goes off on his own.

 

However, it looks like it could be everyone BUT Reed leaving this time, which begs the question of who the other three members would be.

 

She-Hulk would be an obvious choice based on history, but Luke Cage and other heroes with a past link to the Four tended to go anti-registration.

[Special K 0]

Ghost Rider Wolverine Hulk! Best EVAR~!

 

DC is just so much better now, and I'm a Marvel fanboy. I may noy like a lot of the decisions they're making (like killing every minor character I like) but at least the stories are very compelling.

 

The Ultimate line is still pretty good, tho.*

 

*pending whatever the hell Bendis is doing in USM.

 

P.S> Did the Ultimate Galactus story ever finish? It was pretty dull, so I didn't really pay attention.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

"What is the "Ultimates" series about?"

 

Lame-ass Authority/Stormwatch wannabe trying to freshen up the standard boring Avengers team and producing a bunch of spin-off Ultimate series.

 

 

Sorry some of you disagreed with my stance on Marvel's "classic" heroes, but I just find characters like Iron Man and Captain America to be boring, unfresh, and totally unable to relate to the readers, and see Marvel's secondary heroes (Cage, Cloak, Dagger, Iron Fist, etc.) as interchangeable characters with no real personality. As compared to DC, who has a seemingly endless cast of characters, important and non-important, male/female, etc. who are really likeable, well-written, are portrayed as having "human" problems we can relate to, and are just overall more fun to read.

 

However, and this will make no sense, I read much more Marvel because, despite liking DC's characters better, I still (rightfully) see Marvel as the #1 company and thus the most important overall universe.

 

This week I grabbed:

 

Batman (very good book)

Amazing Spider-Man (ok-good book)

Ultimate Spider-Man (hit or big miss)

X-Men (horrid art, confusing storyline)

Cable & Deadpool (somewhat funny but a big step down from Kelly/McGuiness run)

Justice League of America (perfect book thus far)

[Scroby 0]

"What is the "Ultimates" series about?"

 

Lame-ass Authority/Stormwatch wannabe trying to freshen up the standard boring Avengers team and producing a bunch of spin-off Ultimate series.

Ok can I get a better review from someone other than Mr. Negitive here?

[Special K 0]

Sure:

 

The Ultimates is an alternate Marvel universe, such as M2 (Spider-Girl universe) or the Mangaverse. An elseworlds title, basically.

 

There are the core titles:

Ultimate Spidey,

Ultimate X-Men

And the Ultimates (basically Ultimate Avengers)

 

They all relate to each other and cross over numerous times.

 

It's a more 'mature' take, I suppose. Cap's ridiculously Mr. hard-core soldier. When Hulk rampages it actually has consequences. Thor might be a God or might just be a crazy homeless guy in a suit with a hammer. etc.

 

Nick Fury runs the group and looks exactly like Samuel L. Jackson, intentionally. The role of the government in the series thankfully isn't black and white.

 

I like the writing. The characters are sharply defined, and the latest plot is just terrific, and very intense.

 

The artwork is magnificent.

 

It's one of the only books I pick up regularly. And along with Ultimate Spidey is the only Marvel book I pick up regularly.

 

A serious caveat though: it's probably the most delayed book since Battle Chasers.

[SuperJerk 0]

Sorry some of you disagreed with my stance on Marvel's "classic" heroes, but I just find characters like Iron Man and Captain America to be boring, unfresh, and totally unable to relate to the readers, and see Marvel's secondary heroes (Cage, Cloak, Dagger, Iron Fist, etc.) as interchangeable characters with no real personality. As compared to DC, who has a seemingly endless cast of characters, important and non-important, male/female, etc. who are really likeable, well-written, are portrayed as having "human" problems we can relate to, and are just overall more fun to read.

 

You're like the anti-Stan Lee.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

Cable & Deadpool #32 is a really good read. I'm glad I gave the book a chance for the past couple months.

[Fuzzy Dunlop 0]

Does anyone else think Spider-Man's gonna switch sides soon? I can't believe that he of all people would go along with cloning.

[pochorenella 0]

The Ultimates is an alternate Marvel universe, such as M2 (Spider-Girl universe) or the Mangaverse. An elseworlds title, basically.

 

There are the core titles:

Ultimate Spidey,

Ultimate X-Men

And the Ultimates (basically Ultimate Avengers)

 

They all relate to each other and cross over numerous times.

 

It's a more 'mature' take, I suppose. Cap's ridiculously Mr. hard-core soldier. When Hulk rampages it actually has consequences. Thor might be a God or might just be a crazy homeless guy in a suit with a hammer. etc.

 

Nick Fury runs the group and looks exactly like Samuel L. Jackson, intentionally. The role of the government in the series thankfully isn't black and white.

 

I like the writing. The characters are sharply defined, and the latest plot is just terrific, and very intense.

 

The artwork is magnificent.

 

It's one of the only books I pick up regularly. And along with Ultimate Spidey is the only Marvel book I pick up regularly.

 

A serious caveat though: it's probably the most delayed book since Battle Chasers.

Now that's a more accurate description. The Ultimates are awesome, and Ultimate Spidey is terrific most of the time. Other than the delays there's no complaints on my part.

 

About Reed Richards having more scruples, remember he carelessly took his girlfriend, her kid brother and his best friend to an unprotected and unsafe space trip where he knew there would be consecuences and he did it regardless. If that's not a sign that he can be extreme if needed then I don't know what is.

 

And regarding Spidey switching sides on Civil War, I believe it's only a matter of time before that happens.

[Lightning Flik 0]

I think Spidey's just gathering enough information on his foe, pro-registration. I can't believe he'd just join up, even if he's got a reason.

 

But I do believe Peter saw this as a way to finally come out in the open with who he is, and actually be liked. That's something that has been eating at him since he's been Spidey.