The 2006 NFL Draft Thread

[The Robfather 0]

After surprise, Saints ready to take Bush at No. 2

 

NEW ORLEANS -- Now that the first big surprise of the 2006 NFL Draft has hit the football world, the New Orleans Saints on Friday night were preparing for the second.

 

General Manager Mickey Loomis, from his bunker at Saints' headquarters just after 10 p.m. EST, said he didn't think he would accept any offers for USC superstar running back Reggie Bush prior to Saturday's noon start of the 71st NFL draft.

 

"He [bush] is the No. 1 player on our board," Loomis said during a break in staff meetings at the Saints' facility. "He's the No. 1 player on a lot of teams' boards. To be truthful, I don't expect us to be moving the pick."

 

The Saints, like most teams in the NFL, had heard the recent rumblings out of Houston that signability was going to be a factor in getting a deal done with either Bush or N.C. State defensive end Mario Williams, but it still came as a surprise Friday night to Saints' brass when it was Williams, not Bush, who agreed to a six-year, $54-million contract with the Texans and became the first overall pick in the draft.

 

"It was very surprising," Loomis said. "We'd heard, just like everyone else, that they wanted to get their first pick signed, and I can understand that, but it did come as something of a surprise even though Williams is such a great player."

 

So the Saints, who earned the second-overall pick in the draft with a 3-13 record in 2005, appear poised to take the most explosive running back to come out of college football in years. If Bush is the pick, he'll add an explosive dimension to an offensive backfield that already has added free-agent quarterback Drew Brees in free agency. Bush would complement incumbent running back Deuce McAllister, who's returning from major knee surgery.

 

Prior to Houston's blockbuster announcement, the Saints were expected to strongly consider Virginia offensive tackle D'Brickashaw Ferguson with the second pick. Or, New Orleans would've considered trading down several slots in the first round as long as the team could've drafted one of its top prospects, such as Ohio State linebacker A.J. Hawk.

[SpikeFayeJettEdBebop 0]

Personally, I dont think drafting Williams was such a bad idea for the Texans.....

 

They don't have an offensive line and they already have a back that can get a 1,000+ yard season WITHOUT the line. Granted, Bush would help their offense a bit, but running back isn't a need of their's period. I don't care how amazing he may seem, because he hasn't done shit in the NFL yet. I realise, neither has any other player in this draft, but all I'm saying is that if the Texans felt they couldn't get enough for the number one pick, and had to make a decision, I don't see it being a horrible one that they picked Williams.

 

After all, they need a lot of help and Williams surely won't hurt. Defensive Ends usually have longer careers than running backs anyway, and if Williams and Bush both play to their full potential, I see Williams helping the Texans in the end just as much as Bush ever would be able to.

[Guest StylesMark]

Wow. The Saints with Bush and Brees? Joe Horn? Wow. Could be en explosive offense.

[teke184 0]

Wow. The Saints with Bush and Brees? Joe Horn? Wow. Could be en explosive offense.

 

I'd still rather bulk up the line than get Bush... The Saints are short a Left Tackle and a Center right now, so Bush, Deuce, and Brees will be on their asses if they don't get some protection.

[Guest StylesMark]

Not if they're playing someone with a BS defense.

[Urban Warfare 0]

It certainly wouldn't hurt the Saints to beef up their line, but good offensive line prospects come along every year. They can also pick up some value guys in the second and third rounds. Bush is a special player and just to good for the Saints to pass up on.

[Guest StylesMark]

Bush is too good for anyone to pass on, except the Jets.

[KingPK 0]

I honestly don't know where the Pats could go with #21. I don't think they'll go with a RB like Keiper says unless he's the highest player on their board (because they always go for the best player available). Personally, I'd go for either the best linebacker (to inject youth into that corps), WR (a bigger one to compliment Branch's speed) or DB (since the last few years have shown that you can't have too many of those).

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

All I can say is I'm glad Houston isn't taking Bush.

[KingPK 0]

Looking over the LBs, I'm hoping the Pats either trade up to or have Chad Greenway slip down to them. Yahoo's mock has him going at #17, so I think NE can use a third or fourth pick along with their #21 to move up to that position.

[Black Lushus 0]

glad to see the Texans front office pulled out the common sense.

[Guest Princess Leena]

I hate using the tired Leinart argument... but, it's really true with him.

 

He simply is not a very accurate passer. I wouldn't take him in the Top 20. Not to say he'll be a bust, but I'll be extremely surprised if he lives up to where he's drafted... which would be a franchise QB in 5 years.

 

If I were a GM, I'd still take him over Young, though. Because he might good... but, the only opportunity that happens is 3+ years down the road. And that GM will likely be fired before that.

[UZI Suicide 0]

Leinart is an EXTREMELY accurate passer. One of the most accurate passers to come out of college in quite sometime, that is generally agreed upon by just about everyone that has scouted him.

 

The knock on him has always been arm strength, but I don't really think that's such a big deal.

[Guest StylesMark]

Yeah, I've never heard too much about accuracy with Leinart. It's just his weak arm. But the say Boller has the strongest arm, possibly, so that doesn't always mean as much.

[Gert T 0]

I think there's a 50/50 chance the Pats could sit tight and get Greenway. It just depends how in love certain teams are with him. Honestly I've seen him as high as 11 and as low as 27 to Carolina. His status has humored me, as he was so highly touted before the season. Then people thought he played inconsistently, but he always seemed to be making plays on the tape. People weren't thrilled with his combine stats and he then fell from possible Top 10 at Arizona to the end of the 1st round. Now he has leveled off around the 14-18 range. Personally, I think he'll be gone by pick 21 unless the great DB-S run of '06 has started.

[iggymcfly 0]

I'm a Jets fan and I'd love to see them trade up and take Reggie Bush. Matt Leinart's going to be a bust. He just is. He had the best supporting cast in college football history (on the offensive side of the ball), he completed a bunch of screen passes that went 50 yards, and all of a sudden everyone thinks he's a great QB. 50 different QBs could have won that Heisman for USC two years ago, he was just in the right place at the right time.

 

Such a tired arguement. So, everyone on the offense was great, EXCEPT Leinart? It's not possible that Bush and White could have benefited from his ability to stretch the field in the passing game? It's not possible that Dwayne Jarrett could have benefited from having Matt Leinart as his QB from day 1 as a college player?

 

Actually, who I'd really like to see the Jets take is Vince Young since he's got the most upside of anyone in the draft, and is the first QB in NFL history who can run like a "slash" player while still being one of the top ten pocket passers in the league. Failing that, I don't see what's so bad about keeping Pennington at QB, adding Bush in the backfield and competing next year. When he's healthy, he's still one of the better QBs in the league and he knows how to lead; he was a missed FG away from the AFC Championship two years ago. From 2002-2004, he played 41 out of 51 games including every playoff game, I really don't think he's as "injury prone" as everyone thinks he is.

 

What? What has he ever done to prove that? He's never shown the ability to do a damn thing as a pocket passer.

 

Young has shown the ability to run out of the shotgun. That's it.

 

Listen, I lived on the West Coast throughout Leinart's entire career, and followed college football very closely throughout that period. I watched about 20 USC games, and I can tell you that Leinart didn't make that offense go. Whenever he had to throw the ball further than 10 yards, he was very innacurate and missed receivers on a regular basis. His stats were grossly inflated due to the talent around him. He played somewhat better in big games (the Orange Bowl two years ago and the Rose Bowl last year were probably the only times I've ever been impressed with his game, but I don't think he'll do well over the course of a 16 game season. When those "down" games are against the San Francisco 49ers instead of the Washington State Cougars, I just can't see him succeeding.

 

As for Young, I guess I admit I shouldn't have said "pocket passer" since about 75% of their offense was out of the shotgun. However, what I meant was that he's extremely accurate on pure passing plays where he never threatens the defense with his legs, and he does things as a passer that no running QB has ever done before. Michael Vick and Donovan McNabb have both enjoyed a degree of success at the NFL level, but it was only because of their running ability. Without that ability, I don't think either one would have ever even gotten a starting job, let alone been considered a franchise player. However, Young is different. He was the best passer in the NCAA in 2005, and he may well run better than Vick or McNabb ever did. Basically, I think he's going to change the QB position in a way that no one ever has in the NFL. I think he's an impact player in the manner of LeBron James. The kind that you just can't pass on if you don't want to be listed on "biggest draft mistakes in NFL history" 30 years later.

[UZI Suicide 0]

Listen, I lived on the West Coast throughout Leinart's entire career, and followed college football very closely throughout that period. I watched about 20 USC games, and I can tell you that Leinart didn't make that offense go. Whenever he had to throw the ball further than 10 yards, he was very innacurate and missed receivers on a regular basis. His stats were grossly inflated due to the talent around him. He played somewhat better in big games (the Orange Bowl two years ago and the Rose Bowl last year were probably the only times I've ever been impressed with his game, but I don't think he'll do well over the course of a 16 game season. When those "down" games are against the San Francisco 49ers instead of the Washington State Cougars, I just can't see him succeeding.

 

I've lived on the West Coast for Leinart's entire career as well, and I completely disagree. Leinart is what made the offense go. If you were there for Leinart's entire career, you would have seen the 2004 season, where USC ushered in an ENTIRELY new offensive line, ENTIRELY new wide receiver's, including a true freshman starter, and a brand new starting RB.

 

What happened? he won the Heisman.

 

As for Young, I guess I admit I shouldn't have said "pocket passer" since about 75% of their offense was out of the shotgun. However, what I meant was that he's extremely accurate on pure passing plays where he never threatens the defense with his legs, and he does things as a passer that no running QB has ever done before. Michael Vick and Donovan McNabb have both enjoyed a degree of success at the NFL level, but it was only because of their running ability. Without that ability, I don't think either one would have ever even gotten a starting job, let alone been considered a franchise player. However, Young is different. He was the best passer in the NCAA in 2005, and he may well run better than Vick or McNabb ever did. Basically, I think he's going to change the QB position in a way that no one ever has in the NFL. I think he's an impact player in the manner of LeBron James. The kind that you just can't pass on if you don't want to be listed on "biggest draft mistakes in NFL history" 30 years later.

 

If anyone is innacurate after 10 yards it's Young, not Leinart. I can't even count the number of times I watched Young just sit back and fling up a shitty pass and hope his WR came down with it on the jump ball.

 

Young was far from the best passer last year, I don't care what the stats said. It's impossible to say something like that based on NCAA stats. In 2003, Brad Banks had the highest completion % and QB rating in the nation, and what is he doing now?

 

Frankly, to me, Young is just a little bit worse version of Vick. Neither have great accuracy, but Vick is a little better runner and has a better arm.

[iggymcfly 0]

I was there for the 2004 season. That's actually when Leinart played the worst. This season, they used more of a combination of the vertical passing game and the running game, but in 2004, it seeme like all they did was throw screens to and Bush.

 

The reason Brad Banks had the best QB rating two years ago is that he threw about 15 passes a game. Iowa was a running team, PERIOD. Young meanwhile was a catalyst for the entire team, and in the Rose Bowl, he basically outplayed the entire USC offense by himself.

[UZI Suicide 0]

I was there for the 2004 season. That's actually when Leinart played the worst. This season, they used more of a combination of the vertical passing game and the running game, but in 2004, it seeme like all they did was throw screens to and Bush.

 

He was better in 2004, IMO. Your point of talent helping him would be more valid in 2005, if valid anywhere, because while they had much of the same players, they were "seasoned veterans" in terms of college football, and were much improved from the previous season. In 2004 Dwayne Jarrett dropped a ton of passes and the O-Line was very hot and cold all year long. In 2005 just about everyone was unbelievable, but I don't see how Leinart catches flak for that.

 

It's like the old arguments against the Dallas Cowboys of the early 90's. You always hear, "Aikman was overrated, he had great players around him", but then with Emmitt it's, "He's overrated, he had an elite offensive line and hall of famers at WR and QB", and for Irvin it's, "Well he had Emmitt and Aikman, obviously he'd have big stats."

 

The reason Brad Banks had the best QB rating two years ago is that he threw about 15 passes a game. Iowa was a running team, PERIOD. Young meanwhile was a catalyst for the entire team, and in the Rose Bowl he basically outplayed the entire USC offense by himself.

 

In his final season at Iowa, Banks threw 295 passes, compared to 325 for Young last year.

 

30 passes.. miniscule difference.

 

They were both running QB's who played in offenses catered to their strengths and weaknesses, and had running ability that helped them as passers, because it kept the defense off balance.

[iggymcfly 0]

All right, 2002 was a long time ago (that was Banks' last year, not 2003, like you said), and I guess that I forgot some details. Banks and Young did have similar statistics. However, the fact is that the Big Ten was down that year, and Banks couldn't replicate those statistics against a good defense when they shut down Iowa's running game. Against USC in the Orange Bowl, Banks was 15-36 for 204 with 1 TD and 1 INT, and in their other loss against Iowa State, Banks was 12-21 for 178.

 

Meanwhile, when Young was tested, it was a different story. In the Rose Bowl, he was 30-40 for 267 yards, despite the fact that the RBs got held to 91 yards. I guess Banks was a better parallel for Young than I thought; I'll give you that; but he's still not on the same level as a QB. Where Young is different from the other QBs is his ability to pass and run the ball. It's not that there weren't any competent QBs (like Banks) who could also run the ball. It's that he passes the ball better than any other dominant running QB in football history. Vick and McNabb were mediocre passers who ran the ball spectacularly. Young runs the ball spectacularly as well, but also passes the ball on an NFL level. It's not that there's no one who passes the ball like him or that there's no one who runs the ball like him. It's just that no one in NFL history has done both on an elite level like Vince Young.

[UZI Suicide 0]

If you think the Big 10 had a down year, then what do you call the Big 12 last year? Texas was really the only great team in that conference. Oklahoma had a down year, and the second best team was Texas freaking Tech.

 

The Big 10 was GREAT in 2002. That was the year Ohio State went undefeated and won the national championship. Also, the Big 10 had three teams with 10 wins or more, and Penn State who had 9 wins. The conference went 5-2 in bowl games that year, placing two teams in the BCS.

 

Comparing what Banks and Young each did against USC doesn't hold much water to me, because they played entirely different USC teams. The USC that Banks played was a veteran team that had guys like Troy Polamalu on the squad, while last year's USC defense was REALLY banged up, and REALLY young, with a ton of true freshman playing.

 

And as I said before, I don't see anything with Young that Vick didn't do, or even that Randall Cunningham didn't do. I think Young was in an offense that better hid his weaknesses as a passer, but ultimately I think he's a little bit worse version of Vick.

 

Also - don't get me wrong here. I'm not saying Young is going to be Brad Banks, or that he'll be a total NFL bust. But I'm not sure I see him as a perrenial pro bowler, and I definitely wouldn't take him over someone like Leinart.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Good god, I'm praying that the Jets don't take A.J. Hawk. They don't need any help at linebacker, do they?

 

Green Bay doesn't have THAT many holes, goodness. They have two Pro Bowl starting tackles, and a promising young center. They need guards, which they can acquire in the later rounds or maybe during preseason in free agency (though I prefer they not go that route). They'll need receivers if Walker indeed decides to sit out/retire, and they're pretty much set on defense except at linebacker, where they have a glaring hole just waiting for A.J. Hawk.

 

I read a mock draft earlier with the Pack passing on Hawk and taking Vernon Davis, "to give Favre another weapon for his last year". I think I'd grab a gun and drive myself up to 1265 Lambeau if that shit went down. No matter what Thompson needs to do to get Hawk, he needs to do it. I'm praying none of the teams ahead of him fuck it up.

 

Bush would be a better fit with the Jets or Niners than with the Saints. What is New Orleans going to do with Deuce?

[Conspiracy_Victim 0]

I heard that Charlie Casserly had to take a physical as part of the Texans' insurance coverage. When they got done the doctor told Casserly, "Well, we got your cranial X-rays back and we didn't find anything". When Casserly responded with an exclamation of joy, the doctor said, "No, what I mean is we couldn't find a brain!"

 

That pretty much sums up my feelings on this decision by the Texans. Bush would've A) improved the offense by being Reggie Bush and B) improved the defense by helping keep them off the field. Instead, the Texans fell victim to the Mike Mamula Vortex in which common sense is sucked down and destroyed by combine numbers.

 

Fie to you, Charlie Casserly, and a plague upon your house! Oh, by the way Gary Kubiak, your honeymoon just ended.

[iggymcfly 0]

If you think the Big 10 had a down year, then what do you call the Big 12 last year? Texas was really the only great team in that conference. Oklahoma had a down year, and the second best team was Texas freaking Tech.

...

And as I said before, I don't see anything with Young that Vick didn't do, or even that Randall Cunningham didn't do.

 

All right, I worded that terribly. My point was that whenever Iowa went against a decent team, they got shut down. They didn't have to play Ohio State, and they ended up with a relatively easy schedule, and then they along with Brad Banks got completely exposed by USC in the Orange Bowl. I think Banks was actually projected to go pretty high in the draft before that game, and then after it, he didn't get picked at all. Meanwhile, when Young was on the highest stage, he only came up with the best game by a single player in college football history.

 

That was really only an auxilliary point though. The main focus is that no one could run and pass the ball like Young. Vick wasn't even close passing the ball in college. Here are their respective stats in their last college seasons.

 

Vick: 97-179 (54%) for 1439 yards with 9 TDs and 7 INTs

Young: 212-325 (65%) for 3036 yards wth 26 TDS and 10 INTs

[iggymcfly 0]

Oh, and not to beat a dead horse, but I thought this link expressed my opinions artfully. It doesn't prove anything, but when I happen across an article where 4 out of 4 "experts" agree with me right after I spend half an hour arguing a point, I have to post it.

[Fökai 0]

You've made better points this year than they have. #2 and #3 make the decision toward Young because they're desperate, and #4 chooses Young because he's a durable quarterback who can run? Yeah, because that has proven to be effective within the past five years. Culpepper is a NFL linebacker with a quarterback's arm, and even's he breaking down physically.

 

There should be no doubt that Leinart stays in the league longer than Young. The bone of contention are the levels of success that either of them could have. But the problem is, both of them are groomed to be winners. The Notre Dame and Rose Bowl game showed what Leinart was capable of, and that same Rose Bowl showed what Young was capable of.

 

Right now, it's neck-and-neck and neither guy is the right or wrong choice.

[Fökai 0]

And I'm willing to tank the season as a 49ers fan if they trade up for Bush. I'm honestly torn over what they should do, because they're at least a year away from moving toward the postseason. If they're not drafting Vernon Davis and a position at secondary with those two first-rounders, they're better off drafting Bush.

[naiwf 0]

Jets fans will not cause a scene if they get Leinart or Young.

 

I'm telling ya'.

 

They will though if the end up with Brick. Knowing the Jets they will end up fucking up royally and drafting someone like Vernon Davis since Pennington can't throw more than 10-15 yards anyway. That draft lowlight video is fucking awesome.

 

The Texans just spent $56 million with almost half of that guaranteed on a guy who was unanimously thought to be lazy as in he took almost the entire first half of last SEASON off. Leave it to Houston to draft a guy based on him being a workout warrior. Mike Mamula anyone?

 

Mike Mamula was born in Lackawanna, New York on August 14, 1973. A star defensive end at Boston College, Mamula was drafted 7th overall by the Philadelphia Eagles in 1995.

 

He improved his draft stock tremendously thanks to his showing at the NFL Combine. Because his subsequent NFL career didn't really measure up to that showing, he is often pejoratively referred to as a "workout warrior" and his name is frequently invoked when players go into the combine as relative unknowns and come out as hot properties. [1]

 

Injuries and a dwindling passion for the game prematurely ended his career after the 2000 NFL season. In 77 career games with the Eagles, Mamula had 209 total tackles and 31.5 sacks.

 

At least the Texans did something nice for the Hurricane Katrina victims by gifting the city of New Orleans the best player in the draft, or at worst two or 3 more high picks to trade down a few spots.

[teke184 0]

I'd rather the extra picks than Bush...

 

No matter what people say about him, I'm not sold on him playing behind a less-than-stellar line, which is what he'll be playing behind if the Saints don't draft guys like Brick and Nick Mangold to plug the holes left by losing Wayne Gandy and LeCharles Bentley.

 

 

 

With a good enough line, you can take a fast but unproven back, like Samkon Gado and Willie Parker were when Green Bay and Pittsburg signed them, and make them into stars overnight.

[Vampiro69 0]

Just over 2 hours to go!