NBA Most Valuable Player

[naiwf 0]

I'm not a Kobe fan, but he should have been ahead of Nash, as should have LeBron. And before I forget, Loaded Glove, I missed something. Whats the story behind your avatar?

 

Uh, how should he have been ahead of Nash? It's not a best player award. It's a most valuable to a team award. Nash made his team look amazing during the season, Kobe made himself look amazing. I don't see how this is even up for debate.

 

The Lakers minus Kobe = Knicks, Bobcats or Blazers

[Dangerous A 0]

But you can say the same thing about the Suns.

 

The season before Nash signed the Suns were a 25 win team WITH Amare, Marion, and Barbosa.

[bobobrazil1984 0]

if the Lakers were a great team, or a top 3 in the conference, etc, than that argument would make more sense. They're a 7th seed barely over five hundred. he's the difference between a crappy team and an average team, not between a crappy team and a very good team.

[naiwf 0]

But you can say the same thing about the Suns.

 

The season before Nash signed the Suns were a 25 win team WITH Amare, Marion, and Barbosa.

 

They also had the cancerous Marbury running the show. He's worth about negative 15 wins per year. It was the combination of the Marbury Effect being removed and Nash arriving that made Phoenix a 60 win team

 

As far as the whole Kobe/Nash debate, the obvious answer is that Nowitzki should have won the MVP either way.

[Ripper 0]

That is a good answer.

 

I would have prefered Dirk or Billups winning it though. I hate multiple winners when there are other viable options...

 

 

Ripper - Still pissed that KJ was snubbed in 89 and again in 90

[Dangerous A 0]

While the voting doesn't reflect how I feel, again, I'll say I'm content with who won the award or if any of the 3 runners up had won.

[alfdogg 0]

My top 5 was Dirk, LeBron, Nash, Kobe, Wade, in that order. And since there are only votes for the top 5, no, Arenas doesn't get a vote. I was just pointing out he was in my top 10.

[alfdogg 0]

Re: Billups

 

You say the Pistons don't win a championship without him...you can say the same for either Wallace. Who really thought the Pistons would even come out of the East that year before trading for Rasheed, much less win the title. And if they don't make the Hill for Wallace trade, Hill probably becomes the East's Kevin Garnett.

[Gert T 0]

Ripper, Tom Chambers was "the real MVP" in 1990.

[Ripper 0]

They were in game 7 of the semis without Wallace...wait...didn't they make the Eastern conference finals without Wallace?

 

Thats like when Barkley won the MVP with the suns. They won 53 games the year before and 62 the next year. Was adding 9 wins really worth a MVP trophey for Charles?

 

Wallace got to a REALLY REALLY REALLY good team and made them a little better.

[Ripper 0]

Ripper, Tom Chambers was "the real MVP" in 1990.

HEY, You take that back goddamnit!!!!

[alfdogg 0]

Check this out from the Arizona Republic:

 

Marion's lifestyle is anything but routine

 

Paul Coro

The Arizona Republic

May. 8, 2006 12:00 AM

 

 

It is not just that Shawn Marion can return to the air like a rubber ball off the hardwood.

 

It is that he would rather be watching a cartoon right now.

 

It is not just that he can guard post players with a small forward's body or shoot accurately with an awkward flick of his wrist. advertisement

 

It is that he gave $1 million to charity in 2002, likes Hamburger Helper and plays with remote-control cars.

 

Marion does not let anyone tell him what to be. He plays basketball and lives life by feel. His talent is unique as his personality.

 

The Suns went as Marion did in Round 1, starting slowly and finishing strongly to dispatch the Los Angeles Lakers. Marion averaged 18.1 points and 9.4 rebounds against the Lakers, with no board in his life bigger than the offensive rebound he grabbed to set up Tim Thomas' series-saving, game-tying shot at the end of regulation in Game 6. With long-armed lefty Lamar Odom in his rearview mirror, Marion has another sizable task starting tonight in the second round against the Los Angeles Clippers. He must cover All-Star power forward Elton Brand.

 

Only Marion, Brand, Kevin Garnett, and Yao Ming averaged 20 points and 10 rebounds in the regular season. Only Marion has finished a season twice in the NBA's top five for steals and blocks since steals became an official stat in 1974.

 

Marion received his first All-NBA due last season as a third-team pick, but this run, with Amaré Stoudemire out, has brought Marion a new level of respect - to an extent.

 

"If I'm averaging 20 and 10 and I'm 6-7 and 225, am I just supposed to do that?" Marion said late in the regular season as he lay on a hotel bed playing handheld electronic poker. "How the hell do I not get the same credit as Garnett and Tim Duncan and those guys? I'm 225, barely. Is this just what we've come to expect of Shawn?"

 

Marion sat up and put the game aside as he continued.

 

"It's frustrating because I've been doing this since I got here. I've been playing with Jason Kidd, Stephon Marbury and Steve Nash and been able to adjust my game to everyone."

 

Marion considers himself a Most Valuable Player candidate, but only one of 127 voters put him on the top-five ballot. Nash ran away with a repeat honor. It's often argued that the Suns are nothing without Nash and they survive Marion's rare misses (he played in 482 of 492 games in the past six seasons).

 

But Nash is the team's only true point guard, the only player who can operate the Suns' plan and, by default, is more indispensable than Marion.

 

Marion, though, presents immense difficulty for opposing defenses. Every rival coach seems to point it out. Nothing Marion does can be duplicated. A scout never watches a college game and jots down "Marion-like" anything.

 

"He does things you'll never be able to teach anyone to do, and he's good at things that you'd never want anybody to do," said David Griffin, Suns vice president for player personnel. "His shot isn't what you would teach someone, but it's effective. His handle is not what you'd teach someone, but it's effective. You don't teach kids his size how to play the four (power forward), but he's been effective. He's the rarest of athletes."

[Guest]

I like him and he's dead on. It's the market, and his being overshadowed by Nash and Amare.

[Ripper 0]

Nash and Amare can score on their own.

 

Marion has been the recipent of passes from 3 hall of fame point guards.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Nash and Amare can score on their own.

 

Marion has been the recipent of passes from 3 hall of fame point guards.

 

Kidd is surely a HOFer and Nash might be by the end of his career, but what other great PG has he played with? If you even suggest that Marbury is a potential HOFer, you have no business discussing basketball at all.

[Dangerous A 0]

Nash and Amare can score on their own.

 

Marion has been the recipent of passes from 3 hall of fame point guards.

 

 

I agree Nash and Kidd are HOF material, but Marbury? I think that's debatable. I won't go to the extremes cheech13 is, but Marbury= HOF isn't automatic.

[Brett Favre 0]

If Marbury gets some playoff wins, he's not too far off. He has great numbers.

[Dangerous A 0]

Therein lies the problem. He'll have to be moved for that to happen because it's not happening with the Knicks anytime soon.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

More like a catch-22. Marbury needs to be on a winning team to prove he's good, but no team centered around Marbury can be any good.

[alfdogg 0]

As much as I hate Marbury, CW is right. Playoff success is really the only thing holding him back at this point, he certainly has the numbers.

[Dangerous A 0]

Marbury's numbers are quite sick when you look at them. As cheech says, it just seems like he can put up great numbers very consistently, but for whatever reasons he can't lead his team to post season success.

 

I guess it just depends on what your measure of a HOF'er are.

[alfdogg 0]

I'm sure someone will ultimately bring up Kevin Garnett, so I'll just say this: KG gets the benefit of the doubt over Marbury, because

 

He's been considered one of, if not *the* best player in the world for years now.

 

He's a former MVP.

 

As Sass put it at NMB at the beginning of the season, you either have to climb the mountain or be the mountain that everyone climbs. The Wolves have limited success here, but they were the top seed in the West in 2004 and got to the conference finals. I think all these combined are enough to put KG in the Hall.

 

As an aside to that last point, I'm sure people think Reggie Miller will get in based solely on his clutch shooting, but the fact is the Pacers were one of the elite teams in the league throughout the mid-90's, making four ECF appearances from 94-99. There's no question that they were the most consistent obstacle to climb (besides the Bulls, of course) in order to get to the finals out of the East in that period.

[Dangerous A 0]

You forgot to list the actual Finals appearance for Reggie in 2000.

[Guest Felonies!]

As Sass put it at NMB at the beginning of the season, you either have to climb the mountain or be the mountain that everyone climbs. The Wolves have limited success here, but they were the top seed in the West in 2004 and got to the conference finals. I think all these combined are enough to put KG in the Hall.

Yeah, but except for that, it's been a bunch of first-round exits, and missing the playoffs twice. I don't buy the whole "you need a ring" thing, but really, he's a non-factor when it comes to the playoffs.

[naiwf 0]

Considering KG is only turning 30 next week, barring injury he will likely retire with 25,000+ points (17,337), 12,500+ rebounds (9,567), 5,000+ assists (3,833), 2,000+ blocks (1,450), and 1,500 steals (1,193). Even if he never plays another postseason game, he's a LOCK on the first ballot for the HOF.

 

Hell, if he retired tomorrow he'd probably get in on his first or 2nd try. Being likable doesn't hurt his cause, while Marbury's personality will hurt him in the long run.

[Ripper 0]

Hate Marbury all you want, the guy is going to retire with near 20+ points scoring and 8+ assist average for his career. There is more of a chance he will make it than him not making it.

[Guest Felonies!]

Considering KG is only turning 30 next week, barring injury he will likely retire with 25,000+ points (17,337), 12,500+ rebounds (9,567), 5,000+ assists (3,833), 2,000+ blocks (1,450), and 1,500 steals (1,193). Even if he never plays another postseason game, he's a LOCK on the first ballot for the HOF.

 

Hell, if he retired tomorrow he'd probably get in on his first or 2nd try. Being likable doesn't hurt his cause, while Marbury's personality will hurt him in the long run.

But what about the fact that he's done fuck-all in the postseason? He's undeniably a great player, but all the Timberwolves have to show for it are two series victories in one year of eleven. When does he plan to be part of a winning team? I'm sure he will eventually, but if he doesn't get to at least the Finals once, that's gotta count against him.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Not that I put much stock in it, but basketball-reference.com has Marbury as a 45% shot at making the Hall, more than Steve Nash who has a 5% shot.

[naiwf 0]

Considering KG is only turning 30 next week, barring injury he will likely retire with 25,000+ points (17,337), 12,500+ rebounds (9,567), 5,000+ assists (3,833), 2,000+ blocks (1,450), and 1,500 steals (1,193). Even if he never plays another postseason game, he's a LOCK on the first ballot for the HOF.

 

Hell, if he retired tomorrow he'd probably get in on his first or 2nd try. Being likable doesn't hurt his cause, while Marbury's personality will hurt him in the long run.

But what about the fact that he's done fuck-all in the postseason? He's undeniably a great player, but all the Timberwolves have to show for it are two series victories in one year of eleven. When does he plan to be part of a winning team? I'm sure he will eventually, but if he doesn't get to at least the Finals once, that's gotta count against him.

 

That doesn't matter if KG ends up in the top 15-20 or better in NBA history in points and rebounds and ends up with more assists than any PF in the history of the game too.

[Adam 0]

Exactly. If the numbers are there, it doesn't matter a fuck what he did in the postseason.