Is Kawada/Misawa still the standard?

[World's Worst Man 0]

Big match, yes. Sure as fuck not the biggest of their entire fued, and sure as fuck not as important. Misawa won EVERY SINGLE SINGLES MATCH UNTIL 1997. Kawada beat him in what was basicly a screwjob since Kobashi had already beaten the living fuck out of Misawa for half an hour during the 1997 Champions Carnival playoff. Kawada comes in, six minute victory. THAT was the pay off, an inconsequental victory where Kawada had consistantly lost to Misawa for years. Even to this point in their careers, Misawa brought in Kawada, and against all reasoning, he beat Kawada AGAIN. In the Tokyo Dome. IN THEIR FINAL MATCH. You're trying to tell me, with all that, that Misawa wasn't made to look like he was far and away much better then Kawada? That's bullshit. In their 94 match, the fans DESPERATELY wanted Kawada to win, so he doesn't win a singles match for three more years. Whoooo! I also like the fact that you used Kawada's ONE big victory on the big scale to prove me wrong. Good going! How about all the others? Oh...wait...there's maybe...two? more times that Kawada actually bested Misawa? He beat him for the TC in 1999, but I'm sure you know of so many more. Enlighten me.

 

Cut the bullshit.

 

"Kawada's never gotten that one major victory over Misawa."

 

Own up to what you said or retract it. Kawada got a victory over Misawa on AJPW's biggest show in its history (to that point). Misawa had beaten Kawada in most of their matches before then. People knew that. So on the biggest show in the promotion's history, in the biggest match, Kawada got the victory after years of defeat. Oh, but that was meaningless! Yea! And regardless of what you want to believe, the FACT is that Misawa was the more popular of the two, and he was the bigger draw. It's common sense that he's the one that would come out on top of the rivalry. It wasn't some "passing the torch" feud like Jumbo vs. Misawa where the older guys is the one who needs to lose the feud. So really, this whole point of yours is completely irrelevant, and I will not address it any further.

 

And yet...You post no factual information at all beyond you're arguments which are conjecture based upon the fact that I dare go against common Puro-elitist standards by disliking their feud. Kawada and Misawa never really cared for each other. They may have been team-mates in the generation war, but they sure as fuck didn't care for each other like Kobashi & Misawa did.

 

Oh, and I suppose that's why Misawa asked Kawada to unmask him (Which was a important event in Misawa's career, as it signalled that he was done playing second fiddle, and was going break through into the top position). Or the fact that they were friends earlier in their lives. Yea, they didn't care for each other. Stop trying to be a contrarian troll and cut the ignorant bullshit.

[I like Forums 0]

Honestly I've never been a big fan of Kawada/Misawa's singles matches either. I'm not going to try and justify it with anything more than the fact that I just wasn't very entertained.

 

I willing to upload some more of these classic matches if someone requests. Personally I'd love it if somebody uploaded the Atlantis vs Villano Mask vs Mask match.

[World's Worst Man 0]

Honestly I've never been a big fan of Kawada/Misawa's singles matches either. I'm not going to try and justify it with anything more than the fact that I just wasn't very entertained.

 

I don't think anyone would have a problem with that. Now, if you started making a bunch of irrelevant points while completely ignoring some important facts, then some people might take you to task

[mfn 0]

Sounds like their fued was pretty solid. I've seen the one match they have on YouTube. How are the others?

[World's Worst Man 0]

Sounds like their fued was pretty solid. I've seen the one match they have on YouTube. How are the others?

 

Pretty much all of their matches pre-97 were at least excellent. After that, things fell off a bit, but their matches were still usually at least good-very good, and a couple of them were excellent or better. There are comps around with all of their title matches. The rest of their singles matches would have taken place during the Champion Carnival tournaments in March/April of each year.

[Guest wildpegasus]

There are 2 different Hawk posters. You quoted Hawk 52, but you praised Hawk 34.

 

Never knew that that there were two Hawk posters here. Interesting. I must have some fellow "Over the Top" fans here.

[Special K 0]

I've heard Kawada was held down for quite a long time because he pissed Baba off, by criticizing AJPW in an interview.

[Toshiaki Koala 0]

Maybe he refused to slip the sausage to Old Lady Motoko.

[World's Worst Man 0]

I've heard Kawada was held down for quite a long time because he pissed Baba off, by criticizing AJPW in an interview.

 

I don't recall hearing anything about why things were booked the way they were. All I know is that their 1994 match was the perfect time for Kawada to get the win. But instead, Kawada got his win on the biggest stage in AJPW history, so it was somewhat of a consollation.

 

Maybe he refused to slip the sausage to Old Lady Motoko.

 

You'd have to ask Johnny Ace about that one.

[Dangerous A 0]

I've heard Kawada was held down for quite a long time because he pissed Baba off, by criticizing AJPW in an interview.

 

 

That's correct. He publicly spoke and said AJPW needed to be doing more cross promotion stuff a la NJPW-UWFi. Baba punished him for it.

[World's Worst Man 0]

I've heard Kawada was held down for quite a long time because he pissed Baba off, by criticizing AJPW in an interview.

 

 

That's correct. He publicly spoke and said AJPW needed to be doing more cross promotion stuff a la NJPW-UWFi. Baba punished him for it.

 

Now that you mention it, I do remember hearing something like that. What a shame. It clearly means the feud wasn't any good and the matches were only "decent

[Hawk 34 0]

There are 2 different Hawk posters. You quoted Hawk 52, but you praised Hawk 34.

 

Never knew that that there were two Hawk posters here. Interesting. I must have some fellow "Over the Top" fans here.

Yeah, praising me is normal though. 52 was wrong though. How he missed the point (which Misawa excellently covered) the entire feud boggles my mind.

[Guest wildpegasus]

There are 2 different Hawk posters. You quoted Hawk 52, but you praised Hawk 34.

 

Never knew that that there were two Hawk posters here. Interesting. I must have some fellow "Over the Top" fans here.

Yeah, praising me is normal though. 52 was wrong though. How he missed the point (which Misawa excellently covered) the entire feud boggles my mind.

 

 

How did I praise you?

[Hawk 34 0]

There are 2 different Hawk posters. You quoted Hawk 52, but you praised Hawk 34.

 

Never knew that that there were two Hawk posters here. Interesting. I must have some fellow "Over the Top" fans here.

Yeah, praising me is normal though. 52 was wrong though. How he missed the point (which Misawa excellently covered) the entire feud boggles my mind.

 

 

How did I praise you?

 

I was using DA's words.

[Coffin Surfer 0]

Kawada vs. Misawa 6/3/94 not standing on it's own, is actually one of the biggest wrestling myths of all time. Truth be told, it's a fairly straight forward stand alone match.

 

The way they scout each others' moves in the opening suggests a rich history. Kawada's more aggressive, driven, attacks implies he's the one with something to prove. His dickish assualt on Misawa's apparently injured neck and later his ear, puts him over as the heel.

 

The only tricky part is the leg angle. The nice guy that he is, Misawa never attacked Kawada's injured leg before and him doing it here suggests he's been pushed further than Kawada has ever pushed him before. A rich spot that first time viewers probably wouldn't get. It's also used to play up to the sympathetic nature of Kawada's heel character, something U.S. fans more used to clear cut black and white(cheer/boo) roles may not fully grasp.

 

Kawada breaking up the Germans with a series of Koppo Kicks plays up off his 94 Carine win against Williams but you don't really need to know that. It's obvious that Kawada stopped Misawa's momentum and is building towards a comeback.

 

Other than that, there's nothing else you really need to know. I still wouldn't recommend it as a first time watch though as it does water down some of the drama. But that's not to say it's not a dramatic match in it's own right, some of the most enduring, powerful moments in wrestling history easily.

[World's Worst Man 0]

Well said. A couple other things. The build towards the powerbomb was absolutely incredible. The way it was fought for and avoided, when it was finally hit, it made for a great nearfall. The whole match seems to send the message that Misawa is having an off day, and Kawada is on, and should be the victor. Except Misawa pulls out his killer move, and escapes by the skin of his teeth because of it. It works fairly well I'd say.

[Guest CWMwasmurdered]

Kawada/Misawa 6/3/94 was the first Puro match I ever saw and I thought it was amazing the first time, without really knowing any of the backstory. Knowing the backstory and seeing the rest of their feud made it even better of course.

 

I personally like the Kawada/Taue Vs Misawa/Kobashi tag matches more than the singles matches Kawada/Misawa had.

[Coffin Surfer 0]

Well said. A couple other things. The build towards the powerbomb was absolutely incredible. The way it was fought for and avoided, when it was finally hit, it made for a great nearfall. The whole match seems to send the message that Misawa is having an off day, and Kawada is on, and should be the victor. Except Misawa pulls out his killer move, and escapes by the skin of his teeth because of it. It works fairly well I'd say.

 

 

That's actually one of the better descriptions, "the off/on day." Yes, the whole match is a carefully laid out bait and switch designed to convince the viewer that Kawada HAS to be going over.

 

 

Though I wouldn't say Misawa escapes by the skin of his teeth. He survives all of Kawada's attacks in reasonable good health and comes back to elbow him back into his cage. The killer move is there to reinforce the doubt Kawada created in Misawa's mind by coming so close to defeating him earlier. It's also there to show how Kawada had came further than he ever had before and it would take something special to keep him down for good. And most importantly, anything else would have been anti-climatic.

[Masked Man of Mystery 0]

Someone was offering uploads, I'd like to see an upload of this match, if ya'll wouldn't mind. Preferably not on Youtube, but I could live with that. Most of my puro watching has come on the FMW and New Japan sides

[Guest Velouria]

I'd have a lot of matches ahead of it as I feel the match is overrated. I'd have at least 100 matches as being better.

You're not good at that 'counting' thing, are you?

[I like Forums 0]

I could've sworn I had this match somewhere. I found 3 other Kawada/Misawa matches but I didn't find the 94 encounter as discussed here.

[mfn 0]

I've mostly seen only FMW stuff. I don't mind Puro wrestling really. I just havn't gotten a chance to really watch it and get into it. Most of my favorite matches of all time were either from ECW or mid to late 90's WCW.

 

The Misawa/Kobashi vs. Kawada/Taue match was brilliant. I think I like it just as much as the Kawada/Misawa singles.

[Guest wildpegasus]

I'd have a lot of matches ahead of it as I feel the match is overrated. I'd have at least 100 matches as being better.

You're not good at that 'counting' thing, are you?

 

What's with the Air Raid Crash attitude? You're not Co*y or one of his followers; are you? 5 posts and you're "attacking" me already. There's something very weird about that.

 

I know Co*y's already got an account here last time I looked so it's hard to say if it's Jubuki or not. You obviously know me and the way you construct setences is familiar to me.

 

WP - knows Co*y has a soft spot somewhere deep down inside his heart for me but tires of the attitude. Thankfully, (despite a few IWC airraidcrash attitude newcomers) displaying said attitude has now become passe.

[Toshiaki Koala 0]

If it's not Coey, someone is trying much too hard to be him.

[I like Forums 0]

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=791F10OE

 

This is my favorite singles Puro match.

 

Kenta Kobashi vs (the MAN) Jun Akiyama - Dec 23rd 2000.

Enjoy and tell me how you liked it.

[Special K 0]

I don't think I've watched a Puro heavy match since '98, aside from Tenryu/Muta. I just wanted to say Puro has the best entrances ever.

 

#1 Probably being Chono with the low intro, then: "What y'all niggas want to do?" *crazy organ music*

 

#2 Magnum Tokyo. Great entrance in general, but the male symbol fucking the female symbol is possibly one of the funniest things I've ever seen, ever. It's so simple, and yet ridiculously dirty.

 

Speaking of which, I really like CIMA. I don't think I've ever seen him in a great match, I don't think I've ever seen him in a really bad match. Just really like him. The Iconoclasm fucking rules.

 

Just starting to watch your match, I like Forums. Thanks, BTW. I love Jun Akiyama's offense, I think it's a shame none of the other guys of his generation could compete.

 

Just as a query? His big moves are:

Blue thunder bomb]

Exploder (one of the best moves ever)

Exploder 98'

And then He has some kind of Fireman's carry-to Fisherman's buster, right? Is that his big move or the Exploder '98? Either way, what is it called?

[Special K 0]

Isn't there a tag match with Misawa/Akiyama v Kawada Taue from 96 or 97 that's supposed to rival Misawa/Kobashi v Kawada Taue?

 

Either way, I'll reiterate that the Champion Carny 95', besides the 60 minute 6-way is the best way to get into heavyweight AJPW puro. I watched it with a friend who was new to puro, completely, and he ate up Kpobashi/Taue and both Misawa/Taue's with a spoon. Fucking great show.

 

Baba, though, is sort of embarassing.

 

Speak of the devil, what Baba matches are great that are on tape? The guy is NOT that big, his offense is laughable, surely there's are reason he' was revered by the crowd?

[Guest CWMwasmurdered]

Akiyama info: http://noah.puroresufan.com/roster/akiyama.php

 

Most of his matches that I've seen in NOAH usually end with a Wrist Clutch Exploder.

[Cuban Linx 0]

Isn't there a tag match with Misawa/Akiyama v Kawada Taue from 96 or 97 that's supposed to rival Misawa/Kobashi v Kawada Taue?

 

That'd be the 12/6/96 Real World Tag League finals, a definite contender for best wrestling match ever.

 

And i second the love for the '95 Champions Carnival, particularly since i'm a big Taue fan. In addition to the matches you mentioned Taue/Kawada is greatness as well, one of my favorite matches ever. Kawada/Akiyama is pretty damn good too.

[Coffin Surfer 0]

Isn't there a tag match with Misawa/Akiyama v Kawada Taue from 96 or 97 that's supposed to rival Misawa/Kobashi v Kawada Taue?

 

Speak of the devil, what Baba matches are great that are on tape? The guy is NOT that big, his offense is laughable, surely there's are reason he' was revered by the crowd?

 

12/3/93 is another classic Misawa/Kobashi vs. Kawada/Taue match. Any pretty much every Misawa/Akiyama vs. Kawada/Taue match from 96 and 97 is great or at least worth seeing.

 

Yes, tons of great Baba out there. From what I've seen:

 

vs. Destroyer 69

-Fantastic overmatched stooge vs. bigger athletic face match. Lot's of great mat work, stooging, and buckets of blood. Don't expect alot of big time offense though, it is the 60s.

 

vs. Race 75

-Great selling from Baba.

 

vs. Robinson 76

-Classic match.

 

all the early 80s Hansen matches are fantastic

-Hansen is very smart in how he works with the no longer athletic Baba.

 

w/Hansen vs. Kobashi/Misawa 12/93

-Classic tag. Baba plays up to his frail appearence with some of the best sympathy selling ever.

 

w/Hansen vs. Kawada/Taue 11/94

-Geat tag. Baba takes a huge shit kicking from Kawada and Taue, busts out a DDT and Piledriver at one point.

 

There's a ton of highly regarded stuff I haven't seen though. Keep in mind that Baba got by with facial expressions/mannerisms, mat work, story telling, selling. He always used the Northern Chops, and had a large but not exactly high impact by today's standards offense(though the Neckbreaker Drop is brutal and his Dropkick was impressive.) In other words, your not gonna come across Baba wrestling like Benoit anywhere. He was at his best when he played up to his odd look instead of working against it. I wouldn't hesistant to put him in a top 50 greatest workters I've ever seen.

 

Of course he was so over because of his humble gentle giant persona, his hard ring work, and from my understanding was very friendly with the fans.