Special K 0 Report post Posted June 17, 2006 I remember having some fun with Eternal Champions on Genesis. It wasn't great by any means, but everyone had so many damn special moves it was nuts. It also had a pretty interesting roster of characters. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thoth 0 Report post Posted June 17, 2006 SNK's issue with modern character design can be directly attributed to Falcoon. However, I happen to like his designs. Incidentally, I enjoy characters of indeterminate gender (Ash, Soiree). Let's hope he doesn't fuck up the new Cardfighter's. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLAGIARISM! 0 Report post Posted June 17, 2006 My friends and I played Super SF II to the point where we were superstitious about what colour costumes our players were wearing. I, for example, was unbeatable for months with 'Seafarer Ken', the aqua marine robed version, but knew I could not play in red because I would certainly lose. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndrewTS 0 Report post Posted June 17, 2006 SNK's issue with modern character design can be directly attributed to Falcoon. However, I happen to like his designs. Incidentally, I enjoy characters of indeterminate gender (Ash, Soiree). Let's hope he doesn't fuck up the new Cardfighter's. Oh yeah--I know all about Falcoon, but it's easy to forget when the games only have computer-rendered profile pictures like the MIs. His art is hit or miss with me. For instance, the 2001 character profile art was *hideous* IMO. Athena looked like a beakless ostrich. And how about his "new" character K9999, who is practically lawsuit bait? The stick-thin waif Kula? How long was Shinkiro with SNK? I only think I recall the super-detailed look associated with Shinkiro artwork as of the KOF series, but what an amazing talent. Is there any particular reason they're translating CFC instead of Match of the Millenium? I suspect it has something to do with Yugioh or some bs like that. Basically every GBA fighter is teh suck. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anya 0 Report post Posted June 17, 2006 The 2001 profile art on PS2 was some of the worst art I've ever seen. http://www.cannonspike.com/CamFan/miscella...01/chin2001.jpg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndrewTS 0 Report post Posted June 17, 2006 The 2001 profile art on PS2 was some of the worst art I've ever seen. http://www.cannonspike.com/CamFan/miscella...01/chin2001.jpg BOCK-BROCKAWWW BWAKOCK BOCK!! (You said it, sister!) (comparison: http://img13.exs.cx/img13/1192/athena8cs.jpg ; at least things improved over 2k1) Yuri is a little better, but not by much: http://www.cannonspike.com/CamFan/miscella...01/yuri2001.jpg Just *look* at the others: http://www.cannonspike.com/CamFan/miscella...01/kof2001b.htm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Coffey Report post Posted June 17, 2006 My local LAN center has a MAME machine and they've been running fighting game tournaments on Friday evenings. They've ran Marvel Vs. Capcom several times, X-Men Vs. Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat 2 & 3, Killer Instinct and some other games. I got first in all of them except Killer Instinct, which I got second. After replaying all of those games, however, I still think Street Fighter Alpha 2 is the best fighting game. Or at least the best game at standing the test of time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndrewTS 0 Report post Posted June 18, 2006 It's my grudging favorite out of the Alpha series as well, although I really wish Karin was in it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest InuYasha Report post Posted June 18, 2006 I played Alpha 2 and 3, and I prefer 3 by a long shot. In Alpha 2, the characters were so unbalanced, and some characters had almost no chance of beating other characters. In Alpha 3, that's been mostly removed. About the only thing wrong was that Shin Akuma and M. Bison were insanely hard as final bosses. Plus, the PS1 bonus modes were really cool. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rendclaw 0 Report post Posted June 19, 2006 I played Alpha 2 and 3, and I prefer 3 by a long shot. In Alpha 2, the characters were so unbalanced, and some characters had almost no chance of beating other characters. In Alpha 3, that's been mostly removed. About the only thing wrong was that Shin Akuma and M. Bison were insanely hard as final bosses. Plus, the PS1 bonus modes were really cool. The thing about Bison is that his cheesy fighting style in SF 2 and SF2T was brought back and given a power upgrade, not to mention that level 3 Psycho Crusher is almost as bad as Akuma's was in SSF2T. You could beat him straight up but that Level 3 was the great equalizer. You had one chance to block it and one only, otherwise to quote Hudson from Aliens "Game over, man!" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndrewTS 0 Report post Posted June 19, 2006 In Alpha 2, the characters were so unbalanced, and some characters had almost no chance of beating other characters. Alpha 2?! Based on what, and compared to what? Obviously Shin Gouki was god tier, Dan, SF2 Gief (and arguably Gen) were crap tier. As an intermediate player, I claim no special or reliable insight on the rankings, but I've seen ranking charts made by several experienced players. Okay, Rose and Chunners are at the top. Arguably Ken. Then everybody else is completely different from chart to chart. I've never heard an experienced player complain about its balance. Although, hell, the gaps between top and middle tier in Third Strike are usually considered broader. As for Alpha 3 being more balanced--well, I'll leave that to somebody else who knows more than myself. Hot damn, those X-ism fighters sure are useful, aren't they? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest InuYasha Report post Posted June 19, 2006 In Alpha 2, the characters were so unbalanced, and some characters had almost no chance of beating other characters. Alpha 2?! Based on what, and compared to what? Obviously Shin Gouki was god tier, Dan, SF2 Gief (and arguably Gen) were crap tier. As an intermediate player, I claim no special or reliable insight on the rankings, but I've seen ranking charts made by several experienced players. Okay, Rose and Chunners are at the top. Arguably Ken. Then everybody else is completely different from chart to chart. I've never heard an experienced player complain about its balance. Although, hell, the gaps between top and middle tier in Third Strike are usually considered broader. As for Alpha 3 being more balanced--well, I'll leave that to somebody else who knows more than myself. Hot damn, those X-ism fighters sure are useful, aren't they? From Alpha 2: ZANGIEF-Mid-level, depending on if you can pull off his super-hard super moves SAKURA-Slightly weaker Ryu clone ROLENTO-Damn near useless DHALSIM-Same as always GEN-Playable, but extremely hard to master ADON-If Ryu and Sagat had a baby, and then beat it AKUMA-Right below M. Bison BIRDIE-Damn near worthless M. BISON-Still the reigning king of cheap shit CHARLIE-Guile clone who both does and doesn't suck less CHUN-LI-The SFII version, on steriods DAN-Absolutely worthless GUY-Decent, but difficult to play KEN-Default character v2 ROSE-Not quite worthless RYU-Default character v1 SAGAT-Pumped-up version of SFII SODOM-The new Dhalsim, ie, the character no one with any self-respect plays SHIN AKUMA-makes M. Bison his bitch on a regular basis I hope that clears things up a little. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anya 0 Report post Posted June 19, 2006 That was the most vague balance analysis I've ever seen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndrewTS 0 Report post Posted June 19, 2006 I love how characters that have *similar* moves are "clones" even if they have completely different ranges and properties. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Special K 0 Report post Posted June 19, 2006 From the cannonspike stuff: Kyo Kusanagi, he isn't the same Kyo from Rival Schools, is he? And I think a good Sakura player could slaughter a Ken or Ryo player in SFA2. I may not be super-great at those games, I can beat my friends, but her SHOOOOOken is a brutal combo ender, and can be done aerially. Or maybe i'm mixing her up with her vs series character. wher she fucking kills. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest InuYasha Report post Posted June 19, 2006 That was the most vague balance analysis I've ever seen. That wasn't really a balance analysis. It was more of my opinion on the characters. I find Alpha 2 inferior to Alpha 3 in almost every way. That's just my opinion, though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Special K 0 Report post Posted June 19, 2006 I think Adon is fucking awesome. I've always tended towards faster, fragile characters, though. The exception would be Strider HiRyuu. I've always been absolutely terrible with him. I know he's supposed to be one of the elite characters in MvC,. though. My friend and I have had some epic Cliff v Potemkin fights in Guilty Gear. That, in my mind is the ultimate speed v power character, and it was quite balanced. GG rules all. EDIT: I sorta miss Dee Jay too. His hyper uppercut or whatever the fuck it was called was devastating, but it had a really small hit window and was really hard to do at the end of a combo, at least for me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Special K 0 Report post Posted June 19, 2006 Besides Rival Schools, there's only a few characters I've ever been dominant with. Cammy's just a badass in general, and if you can master the spinning punch to avoid projectiles, you'll whoop a LOT of ass. Venom can be extremely nasty in MvC. I started playing him because he's one of my fave comic characters. THen I learned that the Venom Fang goes through fucking everything. It's called the 'priority fang' for a reason. If you can keep your opponent on the ropes, he's fucking dead. And I was the undisputed master at Tekken 3. That wasn't really fair, tho. Paul and Nina were so ungodly in that game it's sick. Block any poke with Paul and it's a counter-hit Phoenix crusher. 2/5 of your life gone, bitch. Not to mention he has counters, the unpredictable sawy-backs to psyche your oppnent out, the rear naked choke, he's a monster. Nina also has counters, the Blonde Bombshell (not as quick as the Phoenix Crusher, but always a threat) She has several psyche-out sidestep moves, multi-throws, the nastiest juggle in Tekken history (launch kick, jumping LK, rising slap combo, Blonde Bombshell) My friends and I played the shit out of that game, and I once bet them to beat my Nina. It took up to round 33 with Kuma. 32-1. Disgusting. Jun Kazama was crazy in TYekken 2 as well. Her unending, variable combo fucking destroyed. There was a small window of opportunity to get a crouching kick in. I bet every Tekken 2 player knows that pause really well. It's interesting to note that with every incarnation of Tekken they tone Paul down, because he was so brutal. The Phoenix Crusher is now rather comically slow, and that's his MOVE. And yet Kazuya (who, yes is a pimp) is basically the same character from Tekken 1, it's just that he does RIDICULOUS amounts of damage. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anya 0 Report post Posted June 19, 2006 Most of what you just said about Tekken makes no sense. Like, how would blocking a poke give you a CH deathfist? They don't always tone down Paul. He's good in T4. He's ok in 5. He's got a lot of good stuff the past few years. D+1+2, the JFs, b+2 are better than counters and the choke throw. Deathfist is still fast. What are you talking about? It's 13 frames. Modern Kazuya is not like Tekken 1 Kazuya. You know, electric? While rising Twin Pistons? Tekken 1 Kazuya had like 10 moves. Mishima staples like WGF, hellsweep, and 1,1,2. Kazuya and Mishimas in general have evolved. Who was playing Mishimas like they do now in Tekken 1? That is the craziest thing I've ever read about Tekken. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Special K 0 Report post Posted June 19, 2006 The Phoenix Crusher was fast enough that if a character hit you with almost any move and you blocked it, you could hit them during the recover period, and it gave you a CH. I know this because I've done it about a million times. It's not about the frames of animation, it's a weird quirk where you could Phoenix crush incredible quickly out of the block. You couldn't do this once Tag came out. And yeah, compared to most other characters, Paul and Kazuya have not received the wealth of new moves most other characters have since Tekken 2. So I exaggerated about Tekken 1. EVERYone had like 10 moves in that game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Prophet of Mike Zagurski 0 Report post Posted June 19, 2006 From the cannonspike stuff: Kyo Kusanagi, he isn't the same Kyo from Rival Schools, is he? And I think a good Sakura player could slaughter a Ken or Ryo player in SFA2. I may not be super-great at those games, I can beat my friends, but her SHOOOOOken is a brutal combo ender, and can be done aerially. Or maybe i'm mixing her up with her vs series character. wher she fucking kills. His name is Kyosuke Kagami. Here's Kyo from KOF. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jer 0 Report post Posted June 19, 2006 Heh I've heard urban legends about Clint from ATL magically punishing jabs with deathfists, but yeah, even if you could, it wouldn't be a counterhit. Your friends are probably doing a jab and then doing something else and you're deathfisting them out of it. And deathfist is still crazy fast in T5; it still punishes whiffed anything. Bait out a whiff on an 8 frame jab and you get a deathfist for free. Paul's better in T4 and T5 than he was in T3 because of the moves Anya mentioned, especially the JF which gives people a reason to duck against Paul that they didn't have in T3. You can't even make an argument for him as best in T3; Ogre wins that hands down. T3 waning moon = wtf. Kaz got more good moves since T2 than the Changs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anya 0 Report post Posted June 20, 2006 The Phoenix Crusher was fast enough that if a character hit you with almost any move and you blocked it, you could hit them during the recover period, and it gave you a CH. I know this because I've done it about a million times. It's not about the frames of animation, it's a weird quirk where you could Phoenix crush incredible quickly out of the block. You couldn't do this once Tag came out. Ok, can you give a specific example of a normally safe move that Paul can punish on block with a CH deathfist? I'll test it. Arcade or PSX? Jer is right, it sounds like you're friends are trying something when at minor disadvantage and getting CHed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Special K 0 Report post Posted June 20, 2006 Could be. I haven't played Tekken 3 in about 4-5 years, though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndrewTS 0 Report post Posted December 21, 2006 Tattoo Assassins: you may have heard of it because of the...two webpages that cover it. Finally, someone compiled a video of (most of? all?) the finishing moves. http://www.destructoid.com/buried-games-be....phtml#comments Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anya 0 Report post Posted December 21, 2006 Wow that was awesome. What a perfect mix of horrible animation and bizarre fatalities. The best are the ones where they morph into random stuff. THE HOTDOG!!!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
In Credible 0 Report post Posted December 21, 2006 Marvel vs Capcom is my favorite series, I love over the top special moves. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Man Who Sold The World 0 Report post Posted December 21, 2006 Marvel vs Capcom 2 owns all, however. I am Juggernaut! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
razazteca 0 Report post Posted December 21, 2006 Juggernaut, Sentinel, Dr. Doom is the perfect power team. Hello cheap tag moves. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cavi 0 Report post Posted December 25, 2006 That Tattoo Assassins video was tremendous. I came across a magazine at the store a few months ago that had an article on the great digitized fighting games of yore - Tattoo Assassins, Survival Arts, SHADOW: War of Succession. I marked out, though I was surprised and disappointed that they did not mention Way of the Warrior. Shaky Jake should be a boss character in the next Jak game! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
