John Cena -- One person's thoughts

[Guest wildpegasus]

Since I haven't posted anything in awhile I thought I'd like to make my return with a bang. These are thoughts about John Cena courtesy of Loss. I thought these thoughts would make for a great debate here considering what has been posted about John Cena in the past. I can't wait for the reactions and arguements here.

 

 

Here they are:

 

John Cena is great! He's not only survived the fans turning on him, he's used it to become an even bigger star than he was before it started. They've hit on a really awesome dynamic and WWE is actually playing his push really wisely by giving the fans who hate him more reasons to hate and the fans who love him more reasons to do so. Michaels in '96 started getting bad reactions and had temper tantrums. Cena gets the same reactions and has managed to use it to re-energize two ultra stale wrestlers in Kurt Angle and HHH, and also to finally make Edge appear like he might reach his potential. This is a rub they've all gotten from working with him. Cena has had the pressure on him for months now and has kept working hard and hasn't cracked. He has my respect. Because of the emotions he tends to bring out in fans, he probably has more interesting (not necessarily good, but interesting) matches than anyone in wrestling currently. He's obviously a great interview and is doing a really good job of slowly making changes as the climate in WWE changes to keep himself fresh. I hope he's wrestling's top star for years to come.

 

 

WP -- Myself, I agree with a lot of this.

 

Even looking at his wrestling ability -- It's good and energetic enough (Cena is not physically lazy in the ring) to get by but on the other side of the coin it's still poor enough (execution, 5 knuckle shuffle) in the eyes of the hardcore WWE fans or the ROH/Indy bots to thumb their nose up at it. John Cena may just be the greatest thing to happen to the WWE in a long time.

 

Look at his spinning belt -- Excellent in dividing the public

 

His persona -- Excellent in dividing the public

 

Even his invincibility as of late is seemingly make people care and dislike him at the same time

 

In the era where it's harder to get the crowd to cheer faces and boo heels Cena has carved out reasons for people to care or dislike about him. For people to talk about him. For people to watch him.

[Enigma 0]

*recent

[qdes 0]

yawn

[Guest Human Highlight Reel]

John Cena -- Every person's thoughts.

 

Cena sucks.

[razazteca 0]

Out of the 10 or so Abercombie & Finch male models that are working the upper midcard in WWE Cena has what it takes to be a main eventer but it would only work if he is a heel in ECW so he can piss off all of the mutants. If he is going to main event the big shows then change up his moveset to show whatever positives he has cause the stupid hiptoss slam and that "protoplex" look very weak compared to the rest of the young "superstars".

 

Cena has Jeff Jarrett heat.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Out of the 10 or so Abercombie & Finch male models that are working the upper midcard in WWE Cena has what it takes to be a main eventer but it would only work if he is a heel in ECW so he can piss off all of the mutants. If he is going to main event the big shows then change up his moveset to show whatever positives he has cause the stupid hiptoss slam and that "protoplex" look very weak compared to the rest of the young "superstars".

 

Cena has Jeff Jarrett heat.

Cena has what it takes to be a main eventer?

 

Cena is a main eventer.

 

And Jeff Jarrett can only dream of having the kind of heat Cena has. Cena draws.

[justcoz 0]

John Cena -- Every person's thoughts.

 

Cena sucks.

 

I've been watching wrestling since 1982, possibly longer since Baron Scicluna grabbed me from the front row at 1 years old to stop Domenic Denucci from coming after him as he stalled at ringside. I don't really remember that however. My point is that in all of my years of watching this stuff, I've never seen a reaction like John Cena. For someone to say it's Jeff Jarrett or X Pac heat is completely stupid. Jeff Jarrett couldn't have that much heat in his own "I'm bigger than HHH" fantasy. We all know that Cena is limited as a worker but the heat his mere presence gets has really helped what is creatively some boring WWE television. Hell, it even helped the ECW One Night Stand pay per view. You really did believe that they would riot if Cena won. Even this past weekend, with the ECW Arena show, not that it's something positive, but when was the last time anyone got beat up for being a Jeff Jarrett fan?

 

It would be easy for WWE to change Cena's character, make him cooler, make him similar to the freestyle rapping heel that he was when he first got over (a role he was great at by the way) but they realize that the reactions are something special and keep him as he is which is all the more reason he has heat. They recognize that kids, women and mark adults will be into it, by the merchandise while the others boo. None the less, people pay attention and it draws. When HBK was booed, Jose Lethario was kicked to the curb and suddenly we had a cooler crotch-chopping, arrogant, Shawn Michaels working as a cool heel. The one thing that I have liked this year is the refusal to change direction with Cena. And the ECW stuff has actually managed to get him over as not being a pussy.

[Hawk 34 0]

Out of the 10 or so Abercombie & Finch male models that are working the upper midcard in WWE Cena has what it takes to be a main eventer but it would only work if he is a heel in ECW so he can piss off all of the mutants. If he is going to main event the big shows then change up his moveset to show whatever positives he has cause the stupid hiptoss slam and that "protoplex" look very weak compared to the rest of the young "superstars".

 

Cena has Jeff Jarrett heat.

 

Jeff Jarrett doesn't make money, he doesn't draw a crowd. Jeff Jarrett doesn't elicit passionate response. XPac heat isn't nearly as bad as Jarrett heat. There is a complete difference.

 

John Cena is a very capable main event talent, he is a victim of poor booking that led to the crowd turning on him and since then he has taken that and made himself an interesting and complex character once again and guess what? He is getting over again.

 

Those who claim John Cena isn't capable of being a Main eventer, or gets XPac heat have no understanding of anything involving the wrestling business and the practice involved within.

[World's Worst Man 0]

Cena and the WWE have unintentionally suckered the so called smarks into hating Cena. And why should they care? Even if Cena has "real" heat, those people are still coming to the shows and participating. Cena has "go-away" heat, so they'll keep running him out to play that up while simultaneously keeping Cena's own fanbase happy. And so far, it's kept both groups interested. They're working the smarks who aren't "smart" enough to realize they're being worked.

[Angle-plex 0]

Since I haven't posted anything in awhile I thought I'd like to make my return with a bang. These are thoughts about John Cena courtesy of Loss. I thought these thoughts would make for a great debate here considering what has been posted about John Cena in the past. I can't wait for the reactions and arguements here.

 

Ugh. None of this was necessary and makes most (myself included) skip over the rest of the post.

[humongous2002 0]

Cena has proven himself to be a true main eventer, he's not on the upper echelon of main eventers like Rock, Austin, or Hogan but he is getting there. Right now I see him on the same level as HHH, Bret, or Macho man.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Cena has proven himself to be a true main eventer, he's not on the upper echelon of main eventers like Rock, Austin, or Hogan but he is getting there. Right now I see him on the same level as HHH, Bret, or Macho man.

 

I agree with this, like it or not.

[razazteca 0]

Is WWE smart enough to use the "Cena sux" heat to draw a big PPV or are they going to keep him as a face on Raw and have him fight the cheerleaders for the rest of the year? There is no room for Cena to main event Raw cause it is nothing but DX vs McMahon soooo extend the Cena vs ECW crossover feud for the whole 13 week run on Sci-Fi channel.

 

Cena vs Orton won't work until one of them learn how to wrestle outside the 5 moves of doom formula.

[skullman80 0]

Cena is a main eventer for one simple reason. He draws. Love him or hate him, the man brings people to the shows.

[Hawk 34 0]

Is WWE smart enough to use the "Cena sux" heat to draw a big PPV or are they going to keep him as a face on Raw and have him fight the cheerleaders for the rest of the year? There is no room for Cena to main event Raw cause it is nothing but DX vs McMahon soooo extend the Cena vs ECW crossover feud for the whole 13 week run on Sci-Fi channel.

 

Cena vs Orton won't work until one of them learn how to wrestle outside the 5 moves of doom formula.

 

Cena CAN work outside the "formula" and has showcased that but as a babyface main eventer he can rescrict his moveset because he won't require it.

[NoCalMike 0]

Cena is just another bland worker that has been pushed to the moon. No matter how bad certain workers are, there will always be a percentage of WWE marks that just go with the flow and happily swallow down the shit that Vince spoon feeds them. They will buy the merchandise and keep the flow of cash going, however at the same time if you listen to the crowd reaction Cena gets, it literally sounds like mainly females in the age range of 12-17 are ther for Cena, and maybe 10% of the Males in the crowd are there to cheer for him. Is it that hard for some of you to decipher high-pitch girls screaming at the top of their lungs from Grown Men cheering? It seems pretty obvious when I watch the show. And please don't point out the fact that the crowd says "You Can't See Me" with John Cena, because that is no different then the entire crowd chanting "YOU SUCK" at Angle, and then turning around to cheer the hell out of him during the match. The crowd always respond to taglines, it is the rest of the time you have to worry about.

 

See here is the thing also. It's not like a guy like Cena will never work out as a Main Eventer, but the problem is, he was put in that position way too soon, and as a result he is taking the lumps as a Main Eventer, that he should have been taking as a mid-carder. The fact that Cena was booed unmercifully when he turned into a ME "star" is an indication that the crowd was acknowledging that it was too damn soon for Cena to be put into the #1 face spot that he was given. So naturally, instead of responding to what people wanted, Vince decided it would be better to just push Cena down our throats until finally people came around, and now we are at the point where some people are turning back to his side, but others still refuse. All of this should have taken place at the mid-card level. The way The Rock and Austin turned people on their side before they even turned face, it was THE FANS/CROWD that showed Vince they belonged in the Main Event with a Super Face Push, but with Cena and hell Orton to, it was Vince making the decision, Not the fans.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Cena has "go-away" heat, so they'll keep running him out to play that up while simultaneously keeping Cena's own fanbase happy.

I think Cena's heat is so much more than "go away" heat. "GH" heat doesn't have the kind of passion and furore that Cena's heat has.

[Kizzo 0]

Out of the 10 or so Abercombie & Finch male models that are working the upper midcard in WWE Cena has what it takes to be a main eventer but it would only work if he is a heel in ECW so he can piss off all of the mutants. If he is going to main event the big shows then change up his moveset to show whatever positives he has cause the stupid hiptoss slam and that "protoplex" look very weak compared to the rest of the young "superstars".

 

Cena has Jeff Jarrett heat.

 

Get the name right.... It's Abercrombie and Fitch...BITCH. I'm a big fan of the clothing and use to work there...so I get a little carried away sometimes..

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Cena is a main eventer for one simple reason. He draws. Love him or hate him, the man brings people to the shows.

 

Where is the proof of this? It's an honest question... I don't subscribe to the Observer anymore and so I can't really keep up with the numbers, but it doesn't seem like he has set the world on fire as a main-eventer. Do shows that he headlines draw better buyrates than those that he does not? Is show house attendance better for the Raw brand than the Smackdown brand? Are his segments routinely the highest rated on the show, regardless of whether or not he is in the main event? The answers to these questions should be a resounding yes, or else I am not sure there is a legitimate argument to him being a "draw."

 

As for the question at hand, I get the argument that any heat is good heat, and that the WWE has capitalized on the reactions to Cena. However, having a polarizing champ doesn't seem like a good business decision to me. I stopped watching Smackdown during his initial reign, and I haven't watched a complete episode of Raw since he was drafted. I also haven't purchased a PPV that he has headlined. Am I representative of the feelings of the general public? Does it even matter if I am lost fan if I am replaced by two 13-year-olds who love Cena? These are questions that have to be answered to truly gauge the success of Cena in the main event.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Cena is a main eventer for one simple reason. He draws. Love him or hate him, the man brings people to the shows.

 

Where is the proof of this? It's an honest question... I don't subscribe to the Observer anymore and so I can't really keep up with the numbers, but it doesn't seem like he has set the world on fire as a main-eventer. Do shows that he headlines draw better buyrates than those that he does not? Is show house attendance better for the Raw brand than the Smackdown brand? Are his segments routinely the highest rated on the show, regardless of whether or not he is in the main event? The answers to these questions should be a resounding yes, or else I am not sure there is a legitimate argument to him being a "draw."

I posted this in the Vengeance thread after someone else questioned Cena being a draw:

 

The rating for the first Raw after Cena dropped the belt were up from the week before, but Raw’s rating usually spikes the day after PPV’s anyway. The next week the rating was the same, so Cena dropping the title did not appear to bring in enough viewers to make any difference.

 

The rating went up the following week, but the day after Cena got the belt back the overall rating was the same, and stayed at that level for the next week as well. Cena getting the belt back did not turn off a significant level of fans. The next week was a Thursday special Raw, so the rating for that, a 3.3, does not really count either way. Raw was back to 4’s the week after that. When the Cena-Edge program was going on, even when Cena was the champion again, it spiked the ratings. It was a ratings draw to the point that a tag match involving Maria and Lita as their respective partners, and after Cena got the belt back, gained 638,000 viewers. Cena dropping the title did not bring people back like you think it did, and Cena being the champion again did not turn people off either.

 

Cena is WWE’s top merchandise seller as well, so he brings in the dollars in that department too. As for house shows, a lot of merchandise sales come from them, and if people are going to buy a wrestler’s merchandise at house shows, then they’re also likely going to pay to see him wrestle at house shows as well.

[UZI Suicide 0]

All that tells me is that the ratings stay pretty consistant despite what happened. The ratings have been consistantly in the high 3's/low 4's for the last few years now.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

All that tells me is that the ratings stay pretty consistant despite what happened. The ratings have been consistantly in the high 3's/low 4's for the last few years now.

I don't have the exact numbers at hand, but I believe Cena's segments draw in the viewers, and are usually pretty high.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Checking up, the joint highest rated segment of the year on Raw (along with the 6/5 segment where HHH had to kiss Vince's ass) was Cena vs. Edge the day after the Rumble title change, and it was a 5.3.

[Guest Human Highlight Reel]

One thing, you make the point that the ratings spike the Raw after a PPV, but it stayed the same after the 2nd biggest PPV of the year? I just don't see why you brush off Edge perhaps spiking the ratings there. Although, when you say "the same" throughout the quoted post, are you referring to the week before, or a base date, such as the Raw before NYR?

[Zack Malibu 0]

The problem with Cena is that they stopped letting him be "real" (for lack of a better term). Many times his babyface antics looked like the WWE struggling to recapture the Rock/Austin lightning in a bottle (especially in many of his backstage skits which reeked of Rock imitation). They've gotten a lot better with that, though.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

The rating for the first Raw after Cena dropped the belt were up from the week before, but Raw’s rating usually spikes the day after PPV’s anyway. The next week the rating was the same, so Cena dropping the title did not appear to bring in enough viewers to make any difference.

 

The rating went up the following week, but the day after Cena got the belt back the overall rating was the same, and stayed at that level for the next week as well. Cena getting the belt back did not turn off a significant level of fans. The next week was a Thursday special Raw, so the rating for that, a 3.3, does not really count either way. Raw was back to 4’s the week after that. When the Cena-Edge program was going on, even when Cena was the champion again, it spiked the ratings. It was a ratings draw to the point that a tag match involving Maria and Lita as their respective partners, and after Cena got the belt back, gained 638,000 viewers. Cena dropping the title did not bring people back like you think it did, and Cena being the champion again did not turn people off either.

 

That doesn't really seem to suggest he's any sort of draw at all. It appears that the ratings fluctuate around a half point or so, and it doesn't matter what the top program is or who the champion might be. He's not turning viewers off, which is a positive, but there is nothing there to suggest that people tune in for Cena.

 

Cena is WWE’s top merchandise seller as well, so he brings in the dollars in that department too. As for house shows, a lot of merchandise sales come from them, and if people are going to buy a wrestler’s merchandise at house shows, then they’re also likely going to pay to see him wrestle at house shows as well.

 

That's sort of a leap of faith. I don't want to take anything away from Cena's ability to move merchandise, but just conjecturing that people are paying to see him because merchandise sales are high is weak. There are two brands right now operating under the WWE name. That is a great comp for Cena's drawing ability. Do his shows draw higher? Are merchandise sales higher per head at Raw shows than Smackdown shows. Are the fans paying to see Cena and only Cena, or are they attending a WWE show and buying up the merchandise of whoever the top face is?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Although, when you say "the same" throughout the quoted post, are you referring to the week before, or a base date, such as the Raw before NYR?

The week before.

[Guest The Great Muta]

I never understood the notion by some people that Cena draws "love him or hate him." If anyone feels that people buy tickets for the shows just to boo him is beyond belief. I would honestly pay to not see him ever again. That is the extent of my dislike for his character, his persona, his wrestling ability, etc. The reason he gets so much heat is because people are sick and tired of him being shoved down our throats playing the superman role and always overcoming the odds in a VERY predictable fashion, time and time again.

 

I actually refuse to go to Raw shows BECAUSE of him. He does not lure me to the shows or lead me to watch the program. If I just so happen to be at a show and he is there, of course he is going to get mega heat. It's because I can't stand his presence and I want him to go away, but that is certainly not the reason I went to the show, which seems to be the popular belief now...

[Guest Human Highlight Reel]

I think my point about Edge causing a spike stands. If the ratings for the Raw after Royal Rumble didn't go up, I think that it was Edge's win that brought it up after NYR, not PPV fallout. It follows that people tuned in because Cena wasn't the champ. I'd lean more towards giving Edge credit for the high ratings mentioned.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Look past the overall rating and examine the segment numbers. Cena was the champ when his tag match against Edge spiked the rating by 630,000. His segments draw.